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Senator introduces legislation to shift tax burden back to billionaires

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posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 12:49 PM
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Don't trust this guy! Be extremely careful, and thoroughly check out every little corner of any legislation he is proposing

Ron Paul Says Bernie Sanders “Sold Out,” Sided With Chris Dodd to “Gut” Audit the Fed

Ron Paul has released a statement on Bernie Sanders’ decision to gut his Audit the Fed amendment:

Bernie Sanders has sold out and sided with Chris Dodd to gut Audit the Fed in the Senate. His “compromise” is what the Adminstration and banking interests want: they’ll allow the TARP and TALF to be audited, but no transparency of the FOMC, discount window operations or agreement with foreign central banks. We need to take aciton and stop this!

The audit is only allowed back to December 2007, which leaves most of the work of the Fed’s Open Markets Committee in the dark — they were the ones who were supposed to be watching over Wall Street when they were laying the groundwork for the collapse. And according to Jay Newton-Small of Time Magazine, there will only be one audit — it will not be ongoing.

Ron Paul and Alan Grayson worked like dogs to get this through the House. And the White House would not have gone to Sanders if they’d been able to peel off the votes to tank the amendment. But with 68 Senators having voted for it or cosponsored it in the past year, that was a heavy lift. Bernie was the weak link.

Moral of the story? Even when you have 60 votes, you don’t have 60 votes. We did what we were supposed to do. For a year. We whipped cosponsors. We beat back efforts to torpedo the bill. We worked with the libertarians to form a right-left coalition, the true “bipartisan” kind that you never see, on an issue that the public overwhelmingly supports: accountability for the banks. The votes were there in the Senate.

Bernie traded it all away. He was singing the praises of the Campaign for Liberty today from the floor of the Senate, and now they’re saying he sucks. They’re right. Ron Paul is calling for this to be stopped, but I frankly don’t know what can be done.

fdlaction.firedoglake.com...




posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 12:58 PM
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Very interesting. Do we think they're still angry with each other? Rather be sure before pursuing it further. Funny how the MSM is calling them The Odd Couple. Bit rude.



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 01:20 PM
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I'm in favor of the general idea of an estate tax, but they always make the exemption level too low. In this case, the tax starts to take effect when assets...not just bank accounts...reach the $3.5 million level. IMO, that's cutting it pretty thin and is approaching upper middle class territory...and at best, its the borderline wealthy. The people in that category have every right to ensure the financial stability of their heirs. They're not the problem and certainly not 'super rich'.

Double the exemption levels and raise the rates after that if you want, but make this a tax on the 'super rich', not merely the successful.



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


What the government does with all the money it has borrowed creating our huge government debt is spend that money to support corporations and enrich the super rich.

Why should the middle class pay off the debts created to enrich the super rich?



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by Son of Will
 


Ron Paul it the biggest sellout in congress. He wants to sell our country to rich corporations. All these followers of Ron Paul are suckers through and through, unless you're a billionaire.

If Ron Paul doesn't like Senator Sanders, Sanders is probably and upstanding honest guy.



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 01:43 PM
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great another hate the rich thread..........not

since your all telling the rich thy arent paying their fair share of taxes........


then im here telling ALL OF YOU arent paying your fair share.........


wake the hell up people liberals have run off the real wealth in this country and they wont rest until there are -no rich- no well off until the only people who remain are the people who sit on their collective asses with their hands out asking MOTHER & FATHER government for a buck, for a meal for home, for an abortion etc............


WAKE UP TO WHAT YOU ALL ARE SHOVELING!



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 01:44 PM
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People should pay taxes in propensity to the wealth they gain from the system, most often it is not wealth that they created.

Wealth taxes are incredibly difficult to enforce, so the estate tax is a great way to level the system, and get the super rich to pay their fair share.

It is no coincidence that as U.S debt, both pubic and private has skyrocketed with ridiculous interest rates combined with all the special privileges repubs have given the super rich, the super rich have gained control over most of our countries wealth.



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by vor78
 


I agree, the exemption level should be upwards around $10 Million.

You will note that the people who support the super rich are eager to rape the middle class of every penny they can take.



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
People should pay taxes in propensity to the wealth they gain from the system, most often it is not wealth that they created.

Wealth taxes are incredibly difficult to enforce, so the estate tax is a great way to level the system, and get the super rich to pay their fair share.

It is no coincidence that as U.S debt, both pubic and private has skyrocketed with ridiculous interest rates combined with all the special privileges repubs have given the super rich, the super rich have gained control over most of our countries wealth.


what are these "special privileges you talk about?" all these quotes and terms you pull from the good ol DEM play book are getting old. 48% of americans dont pay taxes at all. lets tax them! the rich already pay up to 50% of there money in taxes if they live in a state with income taxes. how would you like 50% of your money gone?



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


Airspoon, I love ya man, but I have to take exception with this line in your post: "Apparently, W. Bush passed a law that abolished the estate tax for heirs to extremely wealthy estates, putting the entire tax-burden of the US on the "little people", of course."

Abolishing that tax on heirs receiving their inheritance was the right thing to do. If you receive an inheritance from a deceased family member the federal government has no right to swoop in and tax that inheritance, especially if income taxes have already been paid by the deceased relative when they made their money.



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 


Most federal spending pays for services used primarily by the super rich, so why should the middle class be paying anything more than a pitance towards federal taxes.

RIGHT? I am playing from a playbook when you post one of the most nonsense claims ever at the top of every free market fools tax response.

36% of those 43% who pay no taxes are either students who will spend most of the adult lives paying taxes, or retirees who have already spent most of their lives paying taxes.

For that matter, there is no reason for the average U.S. worker to pay federal taxes, as the federal government does little to nothing for the average U.S. worker and small business man.



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by black cat
 


Most of that accumulated wealth of the super rich never paid any taxes, while heavily dependent upon the federal government for the protections and well as the creation of that wealth.



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


$10 million was the level I initially had in mind before settling on a doubling of the bill's exemptions. It would work, though, I agree.

That said, I think the way the government is going about this is actually severely flawed. They should be taxing the heirs, not the deceased. In other words, make the heirs claim the exemption.

For example, imagine two people, each with $5M in assets. One has five living children and 20 living grandchildren. The other has 2 living children and three living grandchildren. According to the proposal being considered, each family would be liable for $675,000 in taxes. But that's kind of absurd when you really think about it. The average heir in family one would recieve $200,000 prior to taxes...the second, $1,000,000. Clearly, they're not the same, so why does the government treat it as such? Its not fair, IMO.

It seems to me that they should really be putting the exemption on bloodline heirs. Make it about $1.5-2M each.



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by camaro68ss
 


Most federal spending pays for services used primarily by the super rich, so why should the middle class be paying anything more than a pitance towards federal taxes.

RIGHT? I am playing from a playbook when you post one of the most nonsense claims ever at the top of every free market fools tax response.

36% of those 43% who pay no taxes are either students who will spend most of the adult lives paying taxes, or retirees who have already spent most of their lives paying taxes.

For that matter, there is no reason for the average U.S. worker to pay federal taxes, as the federal government does little to nothing for the average U.S. worker and small business man.



What are these sevices that only the super rich get? i need names of programs. No most taxes go to Principle and interest on the US debt, schools, roads and social programs, welfare, unemployment, pork spending. i dont know how you can say it all goes to the rich? why would the rich need it there rich?

Response to your tax free markets. Read my post about us growing our company. Its what we do. When we have the money we open branches to make more money and to do so we need more people to work for us. With less taxes this will happen a lot faster. How can you deny this? What would you do if you were taxed 10% less? For me that’s an extra $5,454 dollars! I would be buying that TV I want in my master bedroom and that .308 bold action rifle I want.

Because I took those items off the shelf and into my home new one need to be made. Now companies have to produce more products for the demand and that equals more people working. That’s how the economy grows. When you tax us this happens at a slower pace. What is wrong with this thought process. I don’t understand how you don’t understand?


[edit on 25-6-2010 by camaro68ss]



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 




Easy

Engagement in interstate commerce and international trade. The average person who buys from the local store is not engaging in interstate and international commerce, they shouldn't pay for the cost associated with hundreds of billions of dollars of commerece which requires government oversight.

Protection of the seas and U.S. economic activity abroad. This only helps those with overseas assetts.

The costs of protecting copywrites and patents, maintenance of the transportation systems where those who move large amounts of goods require government oversightm, and on and on and on.

Dealing with huge ecological disasters like the current oil spill.

Protecting against other private adventures which create huge potential for disasters that greatly effects the public.

How about you answer my first quetion and tell us what the average worker gets for the money he sends to the Fed Gov.



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 12:08 AM
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I think camero68 is full of it..
if you and your dad are so rich, and you have a high end education..

why dont you know the difference between their and there?


however, I do agree on several points..
1. state and federal government. DONT SPEND MORE THAN YOU HAVE..
2. tax everybody, not just the rich, or the poor
3 stop purging money out of every single government orifice we can muster.

and finally 3. fix the damm system..
I know, its asking alot.. but dammit, the thing needs an oil change..



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 12:23 AM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 



48% of americans dont pay taxes at all.


Where are you getting this number from?

Are you saying that 48% of Americans are unemployed? Because I assure you that I get taxed. They take taxes out of each and every single pitiful paycheck I get from my job. And when tax time comes, I might be lucky to get half of that back. (well, my ex wife gets that half but that's unrelated)

So yes, the working poor do pay taxes. Don't let McCain lie to you.

I want to add, I think it's great that people can be successful. But every time I hear one of these rich (better than you) people whine about taxes, I have to laugh, cause these are the same people that use the "I am poor" excuse when an employee looks for a raise.



[edit on 6/26/2010 by whatukno]



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 


How noble you make it sound of 'the rich using money scheduled for tax could have open branches and employed more people and contribute to the success of the economy'.

That's utter BS and the reality is far from the nobility you envisioned or attempt to hoodwink the simple minded here.

What you rich had done was to either pay slave wages to your employees, burden them with one man doing ten men's jobs, or simply outsource your biz to the cheapest labour cost countries such as China or India, and yet the products made are no cheaper than before.

It's time someone did the right thing and force you rich folks to share your wealth. I don't agree with taxes but i belief that if tax relief would be better if you folks were to conduct your operations within US and create jobs for Americans,

otherwise a punitive tax that leaves an owner of a biz with $30million and seize every single other dollar and solely use such seized monies for job creation by a specific govt agency task to create jobs and not used by the govt for military adventures that will only sacrifice our precious young or building white elephant monuments.

This is no daylight robbery. Do remember, you may had the idea and the capital for a biz, BUT it was the workers who helped you grow rich. Without them, your idea is only a piped dream.

The workers are not asking for ferraris or hollywood mansions like you. All they ask is to have enough to live, to have a roof over their heads, some small luxuries such as TV or hi-fi, a holiday at the end of the year, start a family, etc, etc, small ticket items.



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 12:55 AM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


Make no mistakes. Debts WILL BE PAID. We as citizens are responsible for the debts created by our votes. We may have been lied to, not told the whole truth, but ultimately, money had been spent, such as the senseless war in Iraq. We are responsible. The buck stops with the people who empowers others to make such decisions. Thus we as citizens MUST be careful with our votes from hereon.

However, NO ONE is calling for the debts to be repaid in full today. It will be paid overtime, and US has the resources to do so, even to the extend of unmerciful burdening the next generations to pay.

But today, we have the choice to pay and save a significant of it as future payments without burdening the innocent next generation. And that is to create jobs, each american have jobs, and setting aside 10% of our salaries each month for this pool.

Austerity measures such as cutting down on govt fat - priviledges for the elected, funds for military spending and debts, unnecessary spending, etc is good enough.

For infrastructure, education, social spending and everything thing else that can generate returns, austerity measures must not touch. As it will generate returns, either tangibly or intangibly, it must continue on in the absence of the rich who had hoarded up their monies and not circulating it.

When money stops circulating, mankind will starve and turn loco. In the end, no one wins. ELE is the only outcome. May the morons at the G8 or G20 summits wake up.



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 01:06 AM
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Originally posted by AllexxisF1


Right there is the whole crux of the problem of right wingers.


NEWSFLASH...YOU AREN'T A BILLIONAIRE NOR WILL YOU EVER BE A BILLIONAIRE.

So why on God's green Earth would you fight to protect them when they could give a rats arse if you live or die.

The rich have done a masterful job convincing regular ordinary people like you that you too will be super rich one day. Defend out interests to the hilt with your tea parties and trust us, you will be rich soon too.

It's a small club Jack and you ain't in it. But please continue on acting like your are rich (in your head) and continue to defend these monsters while they ass rape you some more.

[edit on 25-6-2010 by AllexxisF1]



A billion today, a million tomorrow....

It is just stupid to continually re-tax money that been taxed already. You all just keep drinking the evil rich cool aid don’t you?

Also why I’m at it, just what is fair to you and me and a billionaire? Some family grosses 50k and we say you know they do not make much so they should not need to pay much taxes and lets give them all the services we can. Then some guy makes 500k and we say, that bastard needs to pay, so let’s tax him 40% or 200k plus.
I’m just not sure what fair is…



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