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What are the signs that tell you whether you have been 'abducted' or not?

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posted on Jun, 15 2004 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by EarthSister
TheBorg

If you believe alien races do not even exist, why are you trying to make contact? lol

If you really want to, invite them over. It could not hurt to ask. It is not up to me to decide what they do or with whom.


He is open to benign aliens existing in the flesh, just as I am.

However, I think I can accurately state that there are no physical aliens in your group, only spirits that your husband channels. So even if you could influence them to visit, the point is moot, as they are only spirits and not flesh and bone aliens.




posted on Jun, 15 2004 @ 10:29 PM
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Paul_Richard, You said "Qwanee is a spirit that Jack channels, not a physical alien with which he communicates."

There, see what I mean? You have already disrespected a name. You're spreading rumors about people you do not know about or understand. That is what human's entire UFO field is made out of, you know. It has nothing to do with the aliens at all. It is made of groupie-dom and flavor of the month and book of the month, horror shows and self-victimization.

Everybody is a spirit. Qwannee is as alive and physical as you and I are. Just because his body is made of a different material than ours, does not mean he is not alive.

All races bodies are literally made of the elements of their home environment. Every world is unique, and so is every star.

If you want to know about the aliens, you have to ask the aliens.



posted on Jun, 15 2004 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard

He is open to benign aliens existing in the flesh, just as I am.

However, I think I can accurately state that there are no physical aliens in your group, only spirits that your husband channels. So even if you could influence them to visit, the point is moot, as they are only spirits and not flesh and bone aliens.


I know the difference between a spirit of a person whose body has died, and an alien person who is alive! It is you who does not. You have never even had a decent conversation with advanced life. Or else you would not badmouth them so much.

My encounters are both physical and spiritual, also including out of body. Communication between us is both vocal and telepathic. All of the races I work with are alive people, just like we are. They are males and females, have children the way all people do, live in homes with their families, work their professions and have complete feelings and emotions.

Direct, physical contact between races is difficult due to differences in biology, but can be done and is when necessary. Usually one or both of two beings of different races has to be out of body. We can't even breathe each other's air. Out of body travel and telepathy are natural to all races, even ours. We are just not very well aware of any of our natural abilities yet.

When we get a little glimpse of some personal ability, we may misunderstand it to be something else. For instance, if we can see somebody with our eyes closed, we might think we are seeing a ghost. Or if somebody is just talking to us and we hear them by mind and not by ear, we might think it's some kind of mind-control tactic by a monster alien or a demon. lol

Don't get carried away in defending your position. I am not your enemy. I am a spiritual teacher. I teach about alien life. Everything I know about the aliens, I learn from the aliens. What you think you know comes only from lots of horrible scary books and articles and stories from questionable people with questionable motivation. Even your reaction to your own experiences comes from all that. That is very common.

You should not be so quick to discount my knowledge. Why would you want to do that anyway? Do you think I might be a nasty alien trying to get to you through your computer? lol That is another current popular groupie repetition.



posted on Jun, 15 2004 @ 11:03 PM
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As a point of clarification...

In having cultivated a Gift of Discernment for many years, tonight my Spirit Guides suggested a slight revision to my earlier post: Qwanee is not a single discarnate but rather a Group Entity or collective of spirits.

Definitely an interesting and illuminating topic...



posted on Jun, 15 2004 @ 11:18 PM
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Look you two, I'm just as open-minded as anyone, but this has to stop. The way you two are blathering on is another reason why I don't think this is anything more than the farce I mentioned, which seems like so far back in this thread. You both can't even agree on what the SAME ENTITY is, let alone answer any of my questions. Until either of you can show me an alien in the flesh, by whatever means necessary, I'm not buyin into it.

All this spiritual revelation stuff is nice and all, but it lacks some serious proof. C'mon people, you have to see how rediculous this all sounds. I'm in search of the TRUTH, not some fanciful story that cannot be substanitiated by anyone. I mean, I can say that a Zetan told me that my farting was causing the O-Zone to deplete, and everyone would just have to take my word on that, now wouldn't they? See my point? Heresay gets me nowhere. I need PROOF!! Show me an alien in it's TRUE form, and I'll shut right up and chat with it, but not until.



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 07:07 AM
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I agree that physical proof of aliens is needed here in order to substantiate EarthSister's claims.

When there are no physical aliens to prove their existence but you have people claiming that they are given information about a hierarchy of physical aliens with fanciful names and big promises, it is a deception that is furthered by one or more Group Entities. I have come across this many times through the years in my own research.

In light of this, I still side with the vast majority of the abductee and ufologist community in rejecting any theories which are contrary to ongoing abductee research -- physical research that is, not just "messages from light beings."



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 12:20 PM
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Here it goes,

First let me say hello, I've been reading posts here off and on for about 3 months now, and for some reason this Thread motivated me to reply.


I'm also wondering if I'm an "Abductee" or "Experiencer". I have not ever encountered an Alien face to face, nor do I remember any sort of clinical settings, rectal probing, laser scalpels etc. Just stating that for the record right off the bat.

Also let me tell you upfront that I am a rational person who tries to look at the world logically, even if the world isn't too logical itself at times. I had a 22 year career in the United States Marine Corps, MOS being Intel, wait wait now, it was nothing fancy, by any means, no secret bases, no "little grey men", no underground facilities, nothing like that. I did a lot of grunt work for cryptology, pattern detection, info gathering for briefings to various other arms of the intelligence community as a whole. Aliens or UFOs or "greys" etc, they held no interest in my life during my career in the military, and I felt it was "schitzo crap", some parts of me still do.

Being retired military(honorable discharge btw), I have fairly good medical benefits, and use them regularly. I have never had any psychological issues, as can be attested to my current physicians, as well as routine psych evals that were taken ever since obtaining a Top Secret Clearance, and then evals given when moving to different sectors of the work I was involved in. Although I guess you have to be a little crazy to join the Corps, most of us would say that's "Crazy in a good way".
So with that stuff out of the way, I'll move on to why I posted in the first place:

Now as for reasons I've started to think I may have had some form of contact, even if not on a fully conscious level:

For the past year now I've had very vivid "dreams", I mean total lucidity, and the experience feels less "dream-like", and more-so like a "memory". I don't know if that conveys my thought well, but I've read the above statement 3 times and that's really as good as I can get it. These "dreams" are interesting to say the least. Sometimes they'd involve me sitting in some form of white room, and being spoken too about ecological concerns, or about the planet, moon, etc. Note that I could never "make out" who it was who was speaking(bright room), and that I would think I'm the last person to be told of such topics, never really my forte' so to speak. Nevertheless, these "sessions" were very very vivid, and I remember them fairly well. I know at the time of their happening I never once felt "danger" or "fear", and I spent 20 years learning the finer points of threat assessment. Ok, so make of that whatever you will, any feedback on it is appreciated.

Next up, physical "evidence"(not really evidence of anything, but dunno what to call it otherwise). Four months ago I woke up from sleep and had a depression on the back of my scull, to describe it I'd say it's about 3 inches from my crown, to the lower right side of my skull. what's interesting is that it is rather deep, at least 1/4" and has a "Y" shaped scar, the scar is very very fine. Needless to say, I was a bit puzzled, my wife and myself could not explain it. At this point I was worried, but any connection(real or imagined) between this and my "dreams" was not on my mind at that time. I phoned and made an appointment to see my physician. He observed the area, stated that it seemed as though bone mass was missing, and could think of no reason for it. He ran me through cat scans, and noted that while that area seemed to be missing, no brain mass of any sort was missing or damaged. Still something that he's watching, but no explination for it.

Also, no "metal objects" or transistors or whatnot were seen in the scans, just in case some of you were wondering. heh


So anyways about maybe 2 weeks later I awoke yet again from sleep, and find that I have a small "crescent shaped" scar just below my knee, and once again can't explain it. This time I didn't phone the doctor, which maybe I should have if for no other reason other than to document. Such thoughts were not on my mind though.


It's also worth noting that neither of the two physical marking left any sort of blood or whatnot, also neither gave any pain or adverse sensations whatsoever.

Since that incident there have been more dreams of various subjects, and some very beautiful views of things I cannot explain. One that has really stuck with me was standing near two entities that seemed "blurry" to me, at least in recollection. The strange thing however is that the rest of my view is crisp, and clear. I am standing with them, and we are on a hillside, there is green-blue grass like substance everywhere on the hill, covering rocks, and I'm looking at the horizon. Wherever I am is not earth, as it's a planet in a binary star system. the two "suns" look amazing, as one is closer (bigger) looking, and round and reddish, and the other must be further, and is white and shines almost too bright to look at. I could feel the wind pass my face, and into my beard, but I couldn't smell anything, it was strange. Anyways, I was just looking around, very peaceful, nothing was "spoken" from the two entities. I then got the feeling one, the one closed to where I was standing, wanted me to look up. A gesture he made maybe, I don't know. I looked up and *WHAM* I see this giant, I mean huge craft, just floating above us headed in the general direction of the horizon out in front of the hillside. I can still remember it so well, like 3 rectangles(2 short on the sides of one long in the middle of them), with many ridges and lines in the material they were made of. I remember looking at it just quietly drifting along for a minute or two, in total awe, and then it just fades to black.

I continue to have the strange dreams, and have tried to ask questions of the "entities" when aware of lucidity, some get me responses, others are ignored, but still could be the product of my subconscious. I have spoken to a psychologist, "off the record" as he's a friend of my brother, he thinks that it is, hmm what did he say, neurons or synapses, firing in my brain heavily while I sleep, and that I certainly wasn't "losing it", as I stated that was a fear of mine.

I'm not sure what to make of any of this, so I thought I'd put it out here. I had decided awhile back that I'd not post it here. I don't even know why I'm typing this as I am right now, just felt I should I guess, strange stuff. Thanks for your time.

J. Prestridge
USMC (Ret.)

[Also will post this in it's own thread, hoping to get some feedback on it, trying to maximize it's viewing, if that's prohibited, then please delete either. Thank you.]



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 12:28 PM
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AnOldWanderer,

Yes, from the psychological and physical evidence you are stating you have, it does indeed look like you have been abducted on a number of occasions.

It is really up to you as to how to proceed from this point onward. If you feel that you are not being significantly harmed from the encounters, then let it go. If you feel that you are being violated in some way, then you should strive to ensure that another abduction doesn't occur.

If you choose the second option, say so and I'll go into some preventative measures that you can take.



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 12:51 PM
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Mr. Richard,

Hello and thank you for your swift response. I must admit that I really can say I have never felt threatened at all. Having said that however, I did read your posts about "memory screens" and I must wonder if that is a possibility of my "dreams".

I mean, and I'm not an expert on any of this mind you, but I don't see the reasoning for the scars. What I'm saying is this: If in fact this is the product of some form of alien interaction, and not just insanity, what purpose do they have messing around in my body? I honestly doubt I asked them to do so, and I see no real reason for what I would consider an outright violation.

I've been through some rough spots in my life, and have been in fear of some things, but waking up and noticing an indention in your head, that has never been there before, that takes the cake for me. And then for your wife to find it has a Y incision, I don't know what to think, not at all.

I've had that area of my head exposed my entire life, as we wear what's called a "High and Tight" in the corps, and I'm certain that indention was not there.



Other than that, I have the "dreams", which seem real "we bring you love" and "earthy", not that there's anything wrong with that mind you, it's just that I'm a "tough guy" of an older generation, and far from what I'd consider "in tune" with mother nature or whatever.

So that leads to the next thought of "what's the motivation here?" you know? "Why me?". And I still can't wrap my mind around that.


So that may or may not lend itself to your theory of "memory screens".


As far as them being hostile, they must be really good at whatever they do to get their hands on me, if I"m not going willingly I mean. I sleep with a Glock 17 (.40S&W) in reach of me, for burglary. I'm very protective of my house, and loved ones. I'm practically a "watchdog" myself. If they're hostile They've gotta be damn good at what they do, or one of us'd be dead by now, at least in my line of thinking. Maybe they've got some ways of neutralizing me as a threat to them?

So unless I've missed something about how they operate, that lends itself to "EarthSister's" theory of peacful aliens, as I can only see it being voluntary that I'd go without a huge fight.


Guess it's still up in the air as to "their" intentions, any thoughts on it would be appreciated.

JP



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 01:31 PM
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Hi AnOldWanderer,

It seems to me that you have doubts as to their intentions and prefer to not have any additional incisions performed, despite the "happy screen memories" you have received.

From my many years of research as a Ufologist, here are some general tips for avoiding being kidnapped by Zetan-aliens (i.e., Greys, Nordics, Reptilians, Insectians/Preying Mantis types, and Hybrids):

1. Change all the locks in your home. Make sure that the windows have locks, that they can be secured, and that you have thick shades over each that are drawn at night.

2. Invest in locks that can only be opened from the inside, have them at each entranceway, and secure these also at night. Zetans can pick outside key locks as easily as any Terran locksmith.

3. At dusk, lock all your doors and windows and pull your shades down. Zetans prefer the cover of darkness when attempting a kidnapping. However, they have been known to occasionally paralyze and abduct people in broad daylight on remote highways.

4. Invest in a good firearm, keep up in your practice in knowing how to use it effectively, and keep it locked up but close to where you sleep at night. I recommend an M3 Benelli Super 90 automatic shotgun; used around the world by elite law enforcement agencies, it is one of the better choices.

5. When you see a glowing object in the sky that is completely silent and not behaving like conventional aircraft, do not take a closer look. Instead, immediately head indoors and lock yourself in while also avoiding windows and sliding glass doors that are not locked and covered.

6. If you see an alien on the ground, do not take a closer look. Instead, immediately head indoors and lock yourself in while also avoiding windows and sliding glass doors that are not locked and covered.

7. The typical method of operation for the aliens is to first paralyze their victim with an intense beam of white or sky blue energy. These beams are from machines and are not indicative of Zetan telekinetic powers. The blue paralysis beam is for pinpoint target shooting. The white light paralysis beam is for immersing entire rooms, vehicles, etc. The white light paralysis beam is much brighter than that of a police helicopter searchlight. Both beams can be activated in absolute silence. If your arm touches the beam, it will become paralyzed. If your head is immersed in it, you will fall unconscious.

8. Zetan-Greys are the most commonly reported aliens. These are generally physically weaker than most humans. As such, they will not enter a home unless they know their intended is either paralyzed and/or unconscious. However, Nordics have been reported on Zetan-Grey spacecraft to serve as a standing army or security in protecting the weaker Zetans against their Terran prisoners.

9. If you see a “probe” (i.e., a small cylindrical-shaped, spherical-shaped, or saucer-shaped object) in the sky, do not take a closer look. Instead, immediately head indoors and

10. Zetans also have advanced electromagnetic stealth technology or a “cloaking device” if you will. What this means is they can generate a strong EM field around their craft, rendering it optically invisible. (The US Navy started experimenting with EM stealth technology back in the 1940s with the infamous Philadelphia Experiment. They wanted to make a ship invisible from radar. What they got was not only radar invisibility but optical invisibility as well. However, the sailors were not adequately insulated from the harmful EM radiation and suffered horrific results.) Zetans have mastered EM stealth technology without hurting their crews. As such, probes and Zetan manned spacecraft (like the large cigar-shaped and triangular-shaped interstellar battleships) can appear to vanish but still actually be there. In light of this, Zetans can fire paralysis beams when their ships and probes are invisible to the naked eye and completely silent. Keep this in mind.

This constitutes a good start in preventive measures...



[edit on 16-6-2004 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 06:14 PM
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J. Prestridge
AnOldWanderer

I have two suggestions for you. Both together are the best way to find out for yourself whatever you want to know about your experiences.

One is to write down and date in order what you recall in detailed journal form, and then continue from now on with any new experiences. For past memories, write the date you can best recall that it happened, and write the date you are writing it on. This will organize your thoughts as well as preserve present integrity of events. You don't have to exhaust or bore yourself by writing out long stories, but write like it's a play. "Just the facts, Ma'am." All of them. Take your time, just do it as things come to you. When you record events as they happen, it is just like drawing one line of the whole picture at a time. One line might seem silly or meaningless, but each one is designed and planned for your progression. Nothing that you are shown or recall is for no reason. Make time to practice and allow your new perspectives on life to integrate into daily life in a normal way. You can't go around hysterically excited all the time, you have to learn to let it be normal to you. I think you are already doing this anyway.

Also an important note is that when you start writing things down as you recall them, this is practice to be able to become more aware of more events that you might otherwise have missed. You, like all alien experiencers, have had "many" more encounters than just the few you recall.

My second suggestion for you is to present your alien contacts with your questions. Choose a few of the most important ones to you at a time. Let them know what you would like to know, and ask them to help you understand what is going on. You mentioned in your post that you remember that you talk with them during meetings, but now also do that while you and your wife are at home relaxing, wide awake. Write down and date exactly what you want to ask. Be as simple and direct and specific as possible.

The only thing I will stress that you really should not do, is absorb lots of other people's ideas and stories, especially the negative ones. Any stories can sway your thinking and that's okay because you're not putty, and you need to know what's going around out there, but the negatives ones can scare, confuse and turn you away from your own goal. The "angelic holy" stories won't hurt you emotionally about alien life, but any story you hear can be equally fabricated, and most are, at least in some way. So go with your own sources, and think for yourself as realistically and scientifically and evolutionally as you can.

Be patient with the flow of information, because things come slowly by design, to be processed and understood to some degree before you can handle more. It's not always easy, but obviously you can handle it. If sometime you can't, it will slow down or stop.

What is most true to you is when you have a few grains of knowledge from your own experiences, more so than to have a truck load of anybody else's. Also, that is your own proof in your own mind of what is happening in your own life. To hell with anybody else. Most people in the field are just yack yack yacking.

You don't need any help, you already have everything you need. You are stable, thoughtful, educated, mature, experienced and willing and able to actively handle your alien contact. Do not think that anybody has more knowledge about your own experiences than you do.

Go for it.

[edit on 16-6-2004 by EarthSister]

[edit on 16-6-2004 by EarthSister]



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 07:50 PM
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Mr. Richard,

I must say that's quite a list you've got there. Very thought out it would seem. I've always been a fan
of tactical, have these methods been proven effective in "home invasion" situations involving alleged
beings?

Does anyone have any of the mechanics worked out or theorized for these light weapons you speak of? It
is almost like the "deer caught in headlights" that can occur when driving through rural areas. If
these supposed beings are hit by these devices, are they affected the same way? Hmm most interesting
stuff.

I live in a urban setting, houses are close, but not that close as the subdivision has large lots. With
that in mind, how are they able to exact this invasion, without other houses, or a chance passing
motorist seeing this occur? Human logic in stealth situations, from my experience, has been
neutralizing of third parties that could compromise objective, or is it possible that they coordinate
to take more than one person in a geographical area anyway?

Your thoughts on the tactical aspects above, as well as your thoughts on overall effectiveness of your
methods is greatly appreciated and looked forward to.

I do have the so called "deadbolts" which are supposed to be hard to pick, and key must be used on both sides of the door, 2 different brands were bought, then a half of each was "swapped", so I've heard it's harder to pick, I'm unsure though. All windows have small wooden "dowels" in them, to make lifting impossible, even if the simple latch "lock" was compromised. I have a security system, as well as zone lighting near certain entrances that is controlled via motion detector(part of the package). Windows and lighting would be a major issue, you'd have to understand the house layout, but there is much glass.

Do you think that if they were determined enough, they would find a way in "come hell or high water"?

Interesting stuff all together look forward to hearing back from you.

********************************************************************************************


EarthSister,

Nice to hear from you. Mr Richard, and Yourself, are the reason I got the "guts" to post here. I've
been dealing with this mainly by avoidance of thinking of it, and just using the old adage "suck it up",
but it is taxing.

I wanted to address your topics in order, but I can't figure out how to make the grey "quote" box, so
this will be in order of your statements, although I'll be leaving your text out.

Interesting you mention to make a "dream journal" of sorts, I'd been thinking of doing this for the
past week or two, kinda made sense to me, although maybe for other reasons than you mentioned, I wanted
to try to detect any form of pattern to their visitations, not sure what to look for, but I did similar
things for some years so it's a thought. I also like the idea that it would allow better future
remembrance, will it also allow better remembering of past "dreams"

At first I was truly truly shaken by it all, but I've calmed down a ton. The wife is still very
concerned, she is perhaps the sole reason I'm not totally bugged out as it is. Going through these
things together, has reassured me that it, whatever it is, was actually occurring. Can you imagine what
it must be like to go through something like this alone? All the doubt, racing mind etc? I don't think
I could have, and I consider myself a strong individual.


Now here is where I'm lost. How do I ask an alien contact anything? Am I missing part of the experience?
It always seems as though they speak, nearly constantly, I have got a few words in, some questions, but
sometimes I was basically ignored regarding some questions. I've said something to the effect of
"Where are we?" and "Why am I here?" which have gone unanswered, or at least that's the memory I have.
Yet an interesting point is that I once asked "Is this real?" and the voice stopped speaking and said
something like "Friend, I can assure you this is real", I know that's not conclusive, as my
subconscious could easily say the same, but it really rattled me. Any thoughts on how to just get this
out in the open with them? I'd much rather confront this thing head on, as that's the kind of guy I am.


I can understand your comment about not absorbing info, I'm pretty good about keeping a clear head in
midst of both opinion and fact, really. I totally agree about keeping my core thoughts separated from
the words of others, but I think that's some damn good advice, for many things in life.



I may have a better understanding of my personal experiences than other, no doubt, but I'm not sure how
to access it. I'm not sure if this has happened due to hostile beings, gentle and kind beings, or if
it's some synapse thing firing rapidly while I sleep. I can say that I've always had an analytical mind,
and my "gut" tells me that it's not just dreams. I'm sure many insane persons have said the same thing
though. You see? I trust myself, but I'm dealing with something that is like nothing I've ever come up
against before. I worry I may get taken and never come back, or that my wife will be harmed, or that
hell, any number of things that I'd rather not even ponder. I don't know if you'll understand this, but
while I may have my own compass(my experiences), I still can't find the map to use it with. You see?
Maybe?


Finally, I'd like to ask you for your opinion on what is (to me) a key subject... Motive:

What reasons are there for such things to occur, seemingly without my knowledge or consent? What reason
is there for the indention/scar on the back of my head? The one on my knee(just below it actually)? I
see no rational reasoning for these actions. In fact, I'd have to say that is the main part that makes
me feel "crazy". Because why in the heck would such a thing happen? I see no logic in it at all,
although I may not be looking at it the right way. Any thoughts?


I appreciate everyone's time, thoughts, and help on all of this. Thank you.



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 09:58 PM
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Greetings AnOldWanderer,



Yes, but they are not foolproof, nothing is. In having been a guinea pig for my own home defenses, I'd rather not go into the specifics as I am as much a target as you are -- especially when I draw attention to myself in public forums such as this one. *L*

>

Probably in some secret department in the government but I personally don't know the mechanics involved, only the effects displayed and that it is not telekinetically produced. The Zetans generally don't permit even close liaisons in our government to examine their high-tech energy projection weapons or there would be more information leaking out about them.

BTW, there is also another energy projection device they use. I refer to it as the green beam and it produces an antigravity field. This has been used on planes and helicopters and it temporarily immobilizes them, wreaks havoc on instrumentation while slowly drawing the intended upward. In this manner, the Zetans can mimic telekinesis.

>

I would make the assumption that their energy projection devices would indeed have a similar effect on them. Their bodies are different than ours but not all that much. It's not like they are rock creatures or something. They have a nervous system just as we do that can be effected by energy projection weapons.

>

They can and apparently have done so through EM stealth and rapid deployment. They can even manifest paralysis beams without their craft being seen. However, as far as I know, for a short time, the flash of light would be optically visible. It may surprise you as to how much can be accomplished when a whole neighborhood or town is asleep at night.

>

Absolutely, as there are documented cases of a dozen or more being abducted at once. We're not talking about a handful of aliens, but hundreds in huge ships who can shrewdly coordinate the kidnapping of many in one evening.

>

You're quite welcome. It's the least I can do. As I told the director of FTTOUFO the other day in a posting over there (who is an abductee himself), I would do more if I could than just express my perspective to stop alien abductions from occurring. Perhaps someday I will.



Keep in mind that they can also easily cut through glass and with the efficiency of lasers.

Here's a helpful tip you may not have thought of...

If you really want to throw them off, make your security system HYDRAULIC-BASED. Electrical systems can be disrupted via an EM pulse weapon, which they also have at their disposal. They use EM pulse weapons to make automobile and aircraft engines stall and they certainly can do it to your home, knocking out your motion detectors and overall electrically-based security system.

You are dealing with aliens with high-tech weapons and you therefore have to create a defense that is cleverly designed to not be electrical and has to be overcome with brute force. They prefer not to blow things up as that draws too much attention. I don't have any specific designs on a hydraulic security system, as I am not an engineer, but you get the idea.

Perhaps one of the engineering geniuses in this forum has a few suggestions in this regard.

>

Zetans often perform medical examinations on people to determine which ones they want for a particular program they have in mind. They also tag many people with devices that will enable them to monitor their whereabouts and possibly also to alter their thinking patterns. If you were truly under their control, you would not be posting in this forum and having this discussion. So I rule out that whatever they implanted in you has any significant mind-controlling properties -- at least for the present.

Strength & Honor,
Paul Richard



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by AnOldWanderer

Finally, I'd like to ask you for your opinion on what is (to me) a key subject... Motive:

What reasons are there for such things to occur, seemingly without my knowledge or consent? What reason
is there for the indention/scar on the back of my head? The one on my knee(just below it actually)? I
see no rational reasoning for these actions. In fact, I'd have to say that is the main part that makes
me feel "crazy". Because why in the heck would such a thing happen? I see no logic in it at all,
although I may not be looking at it the right way. Any thoughts?


There are lots of reasons for these things to occur, but I do not know what your specific reasons are. I have some thoughts and ideas but they are the same things you can think of yourself. I would rather encourage you to ask your aliens these questions and see what you can get from them first. That is the best place for you to get your personal explanations from.

You are not crazy. You are normal. It is normal to feel and think the way you are about these things. If you were really crazy, it would show up in many other ways, in all areas of your life. On the contrary, your high mental strength makes you able to handle more than a lot of other people can. This is just going by your personality that shows in your posts. I could be wrong but I don't think I am. You seem better than just fine to me.

When you lift a weight, it is heavy, but you lift it anyway, and you know what the strain is coming from at the time and when you feel the affects of it later. The more you practice, the more your muscles build and the more you can lift, but nothing ever makes the strain or pressure go away, you just change with it and handle it better. The heaviness of it does not go away like in the cartoons when the strongman lifts it over his head with one finger while picking his teeth with a toothpick in his other hand. When your muscles ache, you say, wow that was a good set I did yesterday.

The weight you feel over your alien contact and the stress it brings daily is normal. Just because you do not know exactly what is happening, or how or why it is happening, does not mean it should not feel heavy, or that you should not feel the daily stress.

If you had little to no recollection of lifting any weights, but had a few awesome dreams about it, and you had muscles growing and aching all the time, you might feel and consider that you could be going crazy. How would you know, if you have never had the opportunity to go crazy before? A lot of other people would tell you that you could be going crazy and tell you to find a doctor, or an exorcist or something. A lot of people would avoid you like the plague. Very few people would tell you that you are a weight lifter, and even fewer could help you learn how or why that is so.



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 11:31 PM
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AnOldWanderer:

You said that you were a retired Intelligence officer, correct? Wouldn't it be easy to ask a friend that's in the intel field if they've heard of such a thing as what you're experiencing, and what it might be? You might put the question to them as a hypothetical, but I dunno the best way to ask since I'm not familiar with protocol and all of that.

All I'm saying is that there might be a more rational, down-to-earth explanation than what has been given, and I think it would be wisest to explore all other possibilities before jumping out on a ledge, claiming alien abduction. Not to say that it isn't mind you, but just 'begging the question', as it were. Let me know your thoughts.



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 10:04 AM
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Mr. Richard,

Lots of info here, I appreciate it. I have to reflect on the implications of what all you've said, but I'll have other questions on defensive aspects as soon as they're totally thought out.

As to your thoughts on motive, I can see that. Well, really I can't see that, as in it not making logical sense to me. That being said, I can see how my definition of "logic" may be changing with all of this stuff happening to me, so your thoughts on motive may stem from your knowledge with such things, a "different view" so to speak.

I believe every person should be dynamic, and not adhere to any belief system or dogma too strictly, it allows for adaptation, in almost any situation. So if I have to start redefining my life, or situation in this world, I feel I can do so.

I must say, I really hope that these alleged "beings" are not malicious in nature. I hope them to be nice little fellas that want to help us or something. Though I'm a cynic, and the only dogma I stick to in life (thus far) is to be cynical, and that everyone has a motive. So I have to think the same is true for any other "beings" we would encounter, until I've been personally convinced otherwise I reckon.


EarthSister,

Hello again. I really must say that your analogy to the weight-lifter, that got through to me. I imagine that would really aide in my overall understanding. I started a "journal" yesterday, writing down what I can remember already, still not done yet, but wrote most of them down, also wrote a symbol down that I remember seeing on a couple of occasions. Lines and dots really, don't know what to make of it, but I remember it on some level.

As far as asking my "contacts", I'm not sure how to do it. I think, after looking over my experiences thus far, that they may perceive me as being only partially conscious, or not conscious at all. I say this because I've had several questions ignored before, not rudely, but just ignored. Any thoughts on how to let them know that I'm really cognisant during the process, and that I'd like to interact better with them?

Also do you have any thoughts on why I can't seem to see their faces? I mean it's strange as hell to be honest. Is it some defensive mechanism I've put up to avoid fright? I mean I see many other things with such detail that most would probably not believe me. I mean all I can think of, is a coping mechanism of some sort. Most puzzled by this.

Thank you for your kind words regarding my presumed sanity. I must say that most friends I know would consider me a "very grounded" person. I'd personally say that I'm known for my stability and character, motivation and initiative. I'm a serious person, may too much so at times, so thank you for the vote of confidence.

Any other thoughts on this most welcome. I am doing my best to understand these concepts, on both spectrums, so I can become more personally informed.

Oh, also.. When recalling these "dreams", they are not "fluid". What I mean by that, is that the memory will begin in the middle of a discussion/sighting/motion. Like I"ll be standing in a bright room, and hear the end of a sentence being spoken to me before I"m fully aware of the situation. You understand or can relate to such things? Like not being fully aware of the surroundings at first. I don't know how to describe it, but it comes with a good deal of anxiety for a brief second or two, then that fades and I'm aware of being somewhere much different.

TheBorg,

Hello, nice to meet you.

No, I wasn't an Officer, I was an Enlisted man(the guys doing the real work)
Ok, all joking aside though, I was what's considered an "NCO", but that's as close to the word "Officer" as I ever came. It's funny how security clearances along with your normal "need to know" compartmentalization work. I mean, you move a lot in the Corps, maybe more so when in Intel, so you make many buddies. But you can be working next to your friend, who's in a different "team" than you at that moment, and never know what he's working on. I mean you can guess,"Is he on the same project?" or "I wonder if what he does relates to my work?" but you *never* know. Hell, to be honest, there's some things you work on that YOU don't even know what the heck you're doing. You take a code or a pattern so far, are stopped and then (I guess) it's given to another person to take a step further. See?

When I was a younger E-3 or so(been awhile), I tried to poke around my bud's work, just to see what they were up to, as my jobs at that level were more than drab and boring, I got my chops busted, I mean busted good, for doing so, that's as far as my "poking" ever went. I mean sure, after a few drinks at a barbecue, you may hear a tiny slip here or there, but the slip normally was caught at once, and none of use would ever push for more information, it's a respect thing really. When all is said and done, the government, apple pie, and the American dream have nothing to do with it, it's all about you respecting your buddies, and not wanting to get their...butt in a sling. Honor. Just the nature of the beast I'd guess.

In Intel work,there's no such thing as a "hypothetical" line of questioning between analysts. Like I've said before, everything a human does by nature, is driven by a motive, you know this as a given in that field, and so most questions are suspect. However, put that aside for a minute. The friends I know, if I told them anything, or said anything about little green men etc, they'd laugh me right out of the bar, really. None of us(at least on the exterior), ever, believed in such things, it was just stuff of cartoons and comics, attention seekers etc. You see?

Probably(note the word Probably, not saying it's even likely or that I have had such an experience). the only person who'd ever speak to you about a "UFO" in the military, would be some fighter jock who buzzed some object on radar and reported it to tower, and even then he'd just say it was a group of birds or something, which maybe it was maybe it wasn't. Who can tell? The Military is an organism, not just a system. It has a life of it's own really, and doesn't really fit into a civilian "line of thinking", so I don't know if you'll understand what I have said, but I said it as best as I could I think.

Anyway, back on to the subject of security etc... I will say that at times this "compartmentalization"can be considered foolish, as I am willing to bet that an amount of collaboration that could occur between several analysts working on different yet similar "projects" could speed up the process. But I don't make the rules, and I came to grips with that many moons ago. And I'm sure they have their reasons for such a system.

I can totally understand what you're saying. And if you re-read my posts, I'm not even *sure* it's an abduction. And I am not presenting it as "fact" or "proof" of aliens, their role in life, or whatever. It's just a group of odd things that I can't rationalize, could be aliens? sure. Could it be some vaccination I was given 20 years ago that's tweaking me or something? sure. Hell, Could it be a bad piece of pizza? sure. Point of those comments is to illustrate that
1. I don't know what the hell is going on.
2. I may go to my grave not knowing.
3. With the crap I've seen in life, any explanation could be "true"
4. I'd like to further my understanding of this situation, I like to face things head on, but if I never unravel it, I'll die happy just the same. Just a little less knowledgeable that I'd like.


I like your line of thinking too though, so if you've got any other questions or whatnot, lemme know




Oh and to anyone reading point #3 above and getting giddy about that statement: Relax, I don't mean experiences with UFOs, little green men, ghosts, or any stuff like that. I'm just saying that; and you can quote me on this:

Life's got a funny way about it. Sometimes it'll make you feel like you know all about it, sometimes you feel like you know nothing, sometimes it'll kick you in the balls just to keep you guessing.

From my observations at least.

JP



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 06:18 PM
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quote]Originally posted by AnOldWanderer


also wrote a symbol down that I remember seeing on a couple of occasions. Lines and dots really, don't know what to make of it, but I remember it on some level.


That is valuable to you and you did a good job holding onto it. My husband and I have seen a number of various symbols, names, alphabet and writings, but only a few of which we recall very well and know the meanings of on a physical level. The symbols on my website are the logo of the organization of all the races that visit Earth. They say "With the love of family and God." They are displayed in a few places on the organization's craft, including over the doorway to the formal meeting room. Certainly all the alien races write, but I am curious in case you see any similarities.


As far as asking my "contacts", I'm not sure how to do it. I think, after looking over my experiences thus far, that they may perceive me as being only partially conscious, or not conscious at all. I say this because I've had several questions ignored before, not rudely, but just ignored. Any thoughts on how to let them know that I'm really cognisant during the process, and that I'd like to interact better with them?


Talking to your contacts is talking with your mind. Picture them in your mind, then speak so that you hear yourself in words in your own mind, not aloud. Speak gently and directly, because your tone, volume and temperament are related as well as your thoughts. If your mind wanders as you are forming questions, or you tend to ramble seemingly aimlessly, then write down what you mean to ask first. This is important because if you are not sure of exactly what you asked, you will not know exactly what the answers mean. It helps to number your questions as well.

Ask what you want to know about most, presently. They will tell you what they can, when they can. They can't tell you all answers to your questions because of how some answers will affect your present point of reference, and take focus away from what you are working on at the time. As if you are trying to study too far ahead in your math book and not processing the first material first. Try to stay in order. If you notice things and are curious, by all means ask, but do not expect answers right away, and try not to be demanding. By allowing you early glimpses of things to come ~and~ letting you remember them for future reference, they are giving you additional perspectives and advantages of understanding in a broader way over a period of time.


Also do you have any thoughts on why I can't seem to see their faces? I mean it's strange as hell to be honest. Is it some defensive mechanism I've put up to avoid fright? I mean I see many other things with such detail that most would probably not believe me. I mean all I can think of, is a coping mechanism of some sort. Most puzzled by this.


That could be for any of a number of reasons but you are generally on the right track about why that happens. As for "why for you" at any specific moment or meeting, your thoughts about that are more important than mine are. You are there and see what is happening at the time so you could figure it out more specifically before anybody else could.


Oh, also.. When recalling these "dreams", they are not "fluid". What I mean by that, is that the memory will begin in the middle of a discussion/sighting/motion.


That is probably an affect on your perception of events either at the time of the encounter, or at the later time while you are trying to remember the encounter, or both. The more constructively you continue to work at being aware, the more fluid your awareness becomes. You are practicing with much more experienced ones watching over and guiding you, and you will keep tipping for a while until eventually you can do it better on your own. So keep trying at your own pace.



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 07:58 PM
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Hi JP,

It is always a good idea to sincerely pray for healing, protection and guidance on a daily basis.

Additionally:

"Prayer is talking to God and Meditation is listening to God."

That being said, I strongly suggest that you do not accept anything "in your head" that claims to be of alien origin and especially: anything that claims to be representative of the purported aliens that may have abducted you.

I state this for two reasons:

1. In my years of research and experience, I have never found any evidence that the physical aliens that abduct people have any telepathic ability whatsoever. What they do have is a very clever propaganda campaign through certain abductees that instills the belief that the aliens have godlike abilities -- like being able to walk through walls, teleport, telepathic ability, etc.

2. There are many common spirits on the lower discarnate plane that would and do jump at the opportunity to promote their banner as "the official representatives of space-aliens" in the minds and hearts of the unsuspecting, and then proceed to pile on layer after layer of deceit.

I have seen this happen to people many times.

Don't let it happen to you.

Be open to the guidance from heaven but reject anything or anyone who claims to be representative of "the aliens that abducted you."

Do this and you will not be decieved.




posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard

I have seen this happen to people many times.

Don't let it happen to you.

Be open to the guidance from heaven but reject anything or anyone who claims to be representative of "the aliens that abducted you."


Now wait just a minute, Paul_Richard. JP has no horrible abduction memories of alien life in his mind, so why do you want to put some there? He is figuring out what is going on in his own life for himself and doing just fine, and I think you should let him do that. You have clearly been trying to plant suggestions that he has been abducted like you describe from ideas only in YOUR mind, not in his. You insist that he has been tricked, and now not only by the "monster aliens", but by a representative of them? A spirit? Or are you talking about somebody like me?

This is completely typical of the entire UFO field and alien abductee support group. In fact, this is what the ufo field is made out of. Somebody has a strange or terrifying experience, and they don't know what the nature of it was, so they find a group of people who have similarly strange, terrifying experiences so they can learn what "really" happened. This is where it all goes wrong.

Now, maybe JP himself would never be so gullible and fearful just because of your kind of anti-alien insistence that he needs to protect himself, but unfortunately many people read what gets repeated through the field over and over again until they might as well believe it, since they don't know or recall everything for themselves either.

Look, you have to be fair. You can't use your personal ideas to scare anybody else away from their own experiences. It is already difficult enough just to open communications between a human and a being of another race just because of the normal instinctual fear we humans have of the unknown. We humans are even scared when we encounter angels and spirits of the very people we have lived with all our lives. We don't need any extra added theatrics.

JP does not describe any horrible events of your kind. Only you do. You don't claim to recall any personal horrible encounters either, if I am not mistaken. You claim that you stopped the aliens from abducting and torturing you. But you never even gave them a chance. You had the opportunity to have a good conversation with a being that you describe as friendly, but you decided to assume he must really be tricking you. There is so much more to discover. You only know the propaganda that you have read and been told, and it has affected your judgment. And now you are causing the same to happen to others. Why do you want that for everybody else too?

Do you think that only humans can do God's work? What would be greater God's doing than working between worlds to bring greater hope and understanding of spirituality and evolution to a race that is as primitive and hostile and confused as we are on Earth? Everybody can do God's work no matter what planet they originate on. Not only happy hippy new agie freaks like me feel the love of God. It's for everybody. There are no evil aliens abducting, tricking and torturing any humans. You are confused but invested in your dangerous stubborn beliefs.

Certainly JP aka AnOldWanderer does not need me to speak up for him like this. But I am defending all alien experiencers who are trying to work things out, and frankly, you need to be told.


[edit on 17-6-2004 by EarthSister]

[edit on 17-6-2004 by EarthSister]



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by AnOldWanderer
Mr. Richard,

TheBorg,

Hello, nice to meet you.

No, I wasn't an Officer, I was an Enlisted man(the guys doing the real work)
Ok, all joking aside though, I was what's considered an "NCO", but that's as close to the word "Officer" as I ever came. It's funny how security clearances along with your normal "need to know" compartmentalization work. I mean, you move a lot in the Corps, maybe more so when in Intel, so you make many buddies. But you can be working next to your friend, who's in a different "team" than you at that moment, and never know what he's working on. I mean you can guess,"Is he on the same project?" or "I wonder if what he does relates to my work?" but you *never* know. Hell, to be honest, there's some things you work on that YOU don't even know what the heck you're doing. You take a code or a pattern so far, are stopped and then (I guess) it's given to another person to take a step further. See?

When I was a younger E-3 or so(been awhile), I tried to poke around my bud's work, just to see what they were up to, as my jobs at that level were more than drab and boring, I got my chops busted, I mean busted good, for doing so, that's as far as my "poking" ever went. I mean sure, after a few drinks at a barbecue, you may hear a tiny slip here or there, but the slip normally was caught at once, and none of use would ever push for more information, it's a respect thing really. When all is said and done, the government, apple pie, and the American dream have nothing to do with it, it's all about you respecting your buddies, and not wanting to get their...butt in a sling. Honor. Just the nature of the beast I'd guess.

In Intel work,there's no such thing as a "hypothetical" line of questioning between analysts. Like I've said before, everything a human does by nature, is driven by a motive, you know this as a given in that field, and so most questions are suspect. However, put that aside for a minute. The friends I know, if I told them anything, or said anything about little green men etc, they'd laugh me right out of the bar, really. None of us(at least on the exterior), ever, believed in such things, it was just stuff of cartoons and comics, attention seekers etc. You see?

Probably(note the word Probably, not saying it's even likely or that I have had such an experience). the only person who'd ever speak to you about a "UFO" in the military, would be some fighter jock who buzzed some object on radar and reported it to tower, and even then he'd just say it was a group of birds or something, which maybe it was maybe it wasn't. Who can tell? The Military is an organism, not just a system. It has a life of it's own really, and doesn't really fit into a civilian "line of thinking", so I don't know if you'll understand what I have said, but I said it as best as I could I think.

Anyway, back on to the subject of security etc... I will say that at times this "compartmentalization"can be considered foolish, as I am willing to bet that an amount of collaboration that could occur between several analysts working on different yet similar "projects" could speed up the process. But I don't make the rules, and I came to grips with that many moons ago. And I'm sure they have their reasons for such a system.

I can totally understand what you're saying. And if you re-read my posts, I'm not even *sure* it's an abduction. And I am not presenting it as "fact" or "proof" of aliens, their role in life, or whatever. It's just a group of odd things that I can't rationalize, could be aliens? sure. Could it be some vaccination I was given 20 years ago that's tweaking me or something? sure. Hell, Could it be a bad piece of pizza? sure. Point of those comments is to illustrate that
1. I don't know what the hell is going on.
2. I may go to my grave not knowing.
3. With the crap I've seen in life, any explanation could be "true"
4. I'd like to further my understanding of this situation, I like to face things head on, but if I never unravel it, I'll die happy just the same. Just a little less knowledgeable that I'd like.


I like your line of thinking too though, so if you've got any other questions or whatnot, lemme know




Oh and to anyone reading point #3 above and getting giddy about that statement: Relax, I don't mean experiences with UFOs, little green men, ghosts, or any stuff like that. I'm just saying that; and you can quote me on this:

Life's got a funny way about it. Sometimes it'll make you feel like you know all about it, sometimes you feel like you know nothing, sometimes it'll kick you in the balls just to keep you guessing.

From my observations at least.

JP

Note: Shortened for brevity.


I would never suggest mentioning aliens or anything of the like to anyone when asking about this. I should have better clarified my statement when I said it, and I'm sorry. It happens, ya know.


Anyway, I was thinking something like asking what kinds of things could cause the things that you're experiencing. Maybe something like, "Hey. I have a question for you. What could cause these things?" And then show them the marks. I mean hell, since the civilian doc dunno anything about the depression on your head(or about anything else, for that matter, heh), why not go to a military specialist? I would think they'd have more info at least. Plus, if something else strange happened as a result of you showing them that, like having to be whisked away from the checkup to another military base(just a hypothetical), you'd then KNOW something was indeed up.

Just a suggestion, mind you. Lemme know whatcha think.


On a personal note, I've always been terrified of waking up in the middle of the night to see a gray standing beside my bed. I'd prolly be too damn shocked to punch it, even though I could level the lil guy in one hit, and I'm a small guy myself(~100 lbs). Oh well. So long as I can go willingly during the day from here, under my own power, be cognisent, and play around with the tech onboard their ship, I don't really care if they show up; just NOT AT NIGHT!! ...scary lil bastards....



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