a breakdown of the muslim threat to the west

reply to post by felonius


I would not defend western civilization past the 1910s. It;s been a long road down hill since then.

And I told you. There is an underlining cultural difference. Christians seek to use the difference to better God's plan. Muslims seek to jihad, or struggle, against this difference to become an ideal human being as Muhammad taught. It's basically individualism versus collectivism.

That's pretty much the only root cause of the difference between the two religions. Everything else is very similar.

And for that reason I am Christian. But that does not mean that there are certain aspects to learn from Islam in the west. There is bad that should be thrown out. There is good that should be accepted.

This thread right here is why religion in any form is not a good thing, since men are not capable, it seems, of being entirely good. They decide who they dislike, create a "religion" and tell others to follow their dictates to achieve their ends.

Dogma had it right in saying that religion is what caused all of the problems, but when people merely had ideas, things were much more peaceful. Wars occurred, yes, but usually for land or goods or gold, not for religious ideals.

I have read the Qu'ran, I have read the Bible. Seems to me that the Muslim faith was created in direct response to the reigning religion of the time, Catholicism. (I refer to the idolatry statements.) Catholics of the time were spreading themselves around the world, persecuting those who didn't convert. Some folks were probably angered at what was going on, and created a new religion that would be in direct opposition to Catholicism, and the Muslim faith was slowly born. Necessity of the time made the holy book to be full of war images and ideas, just as the bible was filled with those same images and ideas to thwart the pagans and get them to change their ideas.

No one will be proven right here, as there is no real way to say who is right, or wrong for that matter. THIS THREAD is why religion is a topic I normally don't touch with a ten foot pole in my day to day life.

reply to post by Ceriddwen


Well considering the bible was not written to respond to pagans I don't know what you are talking about. And considering that the Roman Empire was more interested with Germany than the Seleucid East to bother going there, and seeing as that was before Islam, again I do not know what you are talking about.

And considering that before Religion we went about exterminating all non humans, from Neanderthal man to Homo sapiens idaltu, to Homo rhodesiensis, I again do not understand what you are talking about.

religion, if anything, helped stabilize nations to stop revolts and destruction. So much so that some religions, like that of India and Egypt, seem to indicate that the religion was built from many different faiths, pasted together, rather than what you claim as isolating aliens.

Catholicism became bad with the Dark Ages. As St Augustine said, the Roman Empire did not fall because Rome became Christian. It fell because the Christians stop acting like Christians. The same goes for any religion.

In that case, th original act of fall can be blamed on barbarianism and Pagan insanity. The worst of it, of course. This modern day New Age crap is a joke compared to original Celtic beliefs.

It is arguable that the beliefs of German and Hunnic barbarians lead to Islam and Catholicism becoming less than ideal from their creators.

Muhammad says why he created his faith. because rampant Paganism griped the middle east. That is why he destroyed all the false idols of Mecca.

Jesus says why he did what he did. Because mankind chose sin, and nothing God does can fix man's free will. Jesus is the purifier before eternity.

How their followers act is only because of how bad the pagans and barbarians acted in those days.

As they said in WW2, they had to become as bad as Hitler to defeat Hitler. Likewise, both religions became as bad as Paganism to defeat it. Forgetting, unfortunately, where their roots were.

It is ok if you don't know what I am talking about. I don't mind that. Just as I don't mind you having your own point of view, which I will not debate because it differs from mine.

You have a lovely day!

reply to post by Ceriddwen


There's a fine line between opinion and fact. The human species was born genocidal by nature, long before even the most basic of beliefs was born. Religion allowed that to stop as we built the first civilizations.

Religion, in the end, would not have affected war and killing. Most any war just used religion as cover. Crusades were economic wars. First Islamic purges were economic wars. Extermination of the native Americans was again economical. In fact it was missionaries who begged a stop to it in many cases. In some they were just as brutal. Overall they were not.

In the end, if a civilization wants a war, it's going to get it. Religion does not affect mankind's unfortunate need to kill. Religion has been used to stop such events and build civilizations by putting together different people.

If religion never existed, war would still be just as plentiful.

I think all Americans are animal, and i mean it.







(lets see what will happen= popcorn)

reply to post by deccal


Seeing as Americans are not a race, religion, nor culture, the only logical export of your statement is that all mankind is "animal" (sic)

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by deccal

 

Seeing as Americans are not a race, religion, nor culture, the only logical export of your statement is that all mankind is "animal" (sic)

No...Americans can never represent the mankind. They are a fictional entity with a very very short history and with a very very short future (sic).

[edit on 26-6-2010 by deccal]

[edit on 26-6-2010 by deccal]

reply to post by deccal


(sic) means you spelt it wrong.

Also, America is an Idea. And it is an idea going back to 500BC and before. An idea of the republic. This idea will never ever die.

Like all nations, the US will fall. My money is on 2 to 4 years before the nation falls apart. But it will rebuild, and come back, just as all nations have. It may be called "the United States of North America", or perhaps "The Union of American States". Who knows. It will be eventually though.

For you see, this name is not the first. In fact, it is the most recent in many name changes for those nations that rule under a republic. I can go back in time for you, if you wish.

Most would say the first nation by this name was SPQR. Translated to English, that means "The Senate and the People of Rome". In its day, it was called the Roman Republic. It was basically "the United provinces of Rome", or, "The United States of Rome".

So you see. It has a long history. A long long history. It comes and goes, dies and is reborn. But yes, it is an idea. America is not a nation. it is a collection of people with a common idea of the republic.

In History there have been many nations with this idea. The United States is only the most recent incarnation of this idea. In fact, that is why we call it "The United States". Not many say "the United States of America". America is only the name of where the "United States" are at this point in time. The place-name changed throughout history as conditions change. However, the United States is, in fact, one of the oldest nations on earth, if it can be called a "nation".

So you see, this latest incarnation is dying, but it is only one in a long line of incarnations of the republic.

It has had a long history, and in the end, it will live for as long as humanity does. It is an immortal idea.

So you see, the US is an idea. Indeed, it is a daring idea. And because it is an idea, it will never die.

Oh, what an idea can do. The immortality of an idea.

reply to post by Gorman91


I know what does sic mean (sic), sorry, english is my 4th language, not first language, and america is neither an idea nor a (sic) and 97% american citizens i met are unfortunatly garbage, and I met many. Maybe first education, than an idea. You killed enough people, and now it is time to kill "muslim animals?"
America must and will collapse as soon as posible (sic), only way to forgive you is to educate your people, but you have not much time.

reply to post by deccal


What you stated makes no sense.

America has no one culture. You go to New York or California, it's two entirely different civilizations. You go to the South, yet another different civilization.

How can you say you know America? Even I do not. If I chose to travel to a different part of the nation I had not been before, it would be another civilization again. The only unification is the constitution.


Also, how is the actions of the past passed onto those that did not do it?

Do explain ? How am I responsible for what the government does? I have not seen civilians control the government since a decade ago, and even that was questionable.

You know little if anything about America.


As far as I can tell, Muslims were perfectly capable of killing each other before Americans did anything.

Have you forgot the North-South civil war between Jerusalem and Mecca?

Have you forgotten the African break off?

Have you forgotten the endless wars Muslims did upon themselves long before America ever did?


No one is innocent. if America never touched the middle east, they would still have blood on their hands. As would anyone. ALL nation shave killed. ALL nation shave murdered. NO ONE is innocent.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Gorman91


You have much more blood, because you are the biggest imperialist state. Thank god not anymore though.

reply to post by deccal


Not really. If you want to count blood, Russia wins.

Also. WTF does it matter? To kill one man makes you as bad as killing millions.

No sin is more or less. All are sin. All are evil. Don't try to make a case by saying your cup of blood is half empty and ours are half full.

We both have blood in the cup. We both have blood. We are the same.

Originally posted by felonius


blah blah blah

It's hilarious how uneducated fools are trying their best in their demented ways to discredit and destroy Islam through lies, deceit,misinterpretations, tunnel vision, selective information, misrepresentation and more lies.



[edit on 28-6-2010 by PunisherSupreme]

[edit on 28-6-2010 by PunisherSupreme]

reply to post by PunisherSupreme


It's amazing how fools like yourself have ignored my pages long defense of some of Islam's right to exist, despite my disagreement of it.

I probably know more about Islam than you do. And I'm a Christian.

I'm a stoic. I do not guess or assume. I look, learn, and know.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by PunisherSupreme

 

It's amazing how fools like yourself have ignored my pages long defense of some of Islam's right to exist, despite my disagreement of it.

I probably know more about Islam than you do. And I'm a Christian.

I'm a stoic. I do not guess or assume. I look, learn, and know.

Sorry my post was aimed at 'felonius'.

Not you Gorman91.


Copy & Paste gone wrong...

Whoopsie.



[edit on 28-6-2010 by PunisherSupreme]

To be a good Christian you don't need to hate Muslims. You need to love them. Jesus would laugh at most of the Christians jumping on the hate and stereotype wagon.

Originally posted by earthdude
To be a good Christian you don't need to hate Muslims. You need to love them. Jesus would laugh at most of the Christians jumping on the hate and stereotype wagon.

Interesting video:

reply to post by earthdude


Indeed.

However there's an interesting though tot add to that. Supposedly Agape was the word used in Greek for love.

This means to wish the best possible thing for the person.

So it is not brother love, nor fellowship. It is just that the wicked should be sown mercy and be prayed that change occurs in their lives to change them.

None the less. One should make brotherhood of thy enemies. For the ultimate end point of this form of love is their change to the better in becoming like your brother and one with your own family.

It's a process. Pray for their change, and then accept them.

So when we are told to love our enemies, it really means pray they turn. They stop being aggressive. They stop being angry. That Christ enters their lives and makes them have fleshy hearts rather than stony hearts. And then they come to befriend you like your brother.


Well anyway. That's my 2 cents.

Ironically, this means we should welcome this so called "threat" to the west and pray they become the best possible human, and then enter into brotherhood with them, not ban them, block them, and kill them.

reply to post by nagabonar


While alot of religions are similar none are the same or even come close to islam. It is a religion of pure hatred and evil intent. Why do they mutilate their pubetic daughters? Why are female family members killed for not adhearing to the law? Why are male family members dissowned for having a differing veiw? Why do so few muslims learn the truth? Why when dealing with muslim leaders in an interview or debate they refuse to answer a single question unless it is with another question? Why does allah have over 90 names that point to his true identity? Simply pure evil driven deception! Allah is satan-Mohamad is the false prophet and their Mahdi will be the final antichrist.