The Reason Conspiracy Theorists Can Never "Win" Against the Elite

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posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by jolly

www.armageddonconspiracy.co.uk...

Maybe we can be united by a single religion. A new religion based on our inner light, not our external devotions to false pretexts...
Take it with a grain of salt, but this may resonate strongly with the conspiracy theorist. It will require some deep and profound exploration of ones true inner beliefs.


Interesting.

The problem with a religion uniting us as conspiracy theorists is too many people.

The numbers will not allow people to agree plus those who would wish to convert those who want nothing to do with their religion, or those competing for their religion.

And is it Christianity or Muslim or perhaps Buddhism?

Then we next delves into which particular division of each of those religions.

As well many people here have no religion or it offends them completely.


Originally posted by jolly
I hope this is the thread I have been waiting for. Maybe some of you have heard of this website. Maybe some of you will like it. A LOT.


I cannot tell you if this is the thread you have been waiting for that is your decision.

Never having heard of the website I cannot speak of it as anything other than interesting.

But I daresay your thoughts were definitely on the right track in finding something.

Religion is one of those things separating us, as well as ideology, as well as Government's.

And countries.

reply to post by SassyCat
 


That sure is a funny Government model you have there.


Empty head with full bellies.

That sure sounds like a template for submission if I ever heard of one.

Personally, I find I do not like submitting, except submitting replies.



Originally posted by Enderdog
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


The only way to win, is to stop playing. Take a quiet stand. Hold it. Even when it costs you something. Don't participate as often as you practically can. Don't take their baubles. Don't fight them. Just live and do the right thing always. And pray for those mother frackers, as well. They need it.

Thomas


This is definitely a good idea.

If you never play the game you cannot lost.

And if you do not see it as a game you cannot be defeated.




posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by nh_ee
 


That's just it though we are already divided among ourselves.

Whether we are conspiracy theorists or those off of sites like ATS.

There is that instant division already of Republican or Democrat.

Or Conservative or Liberal.

Labels and sides.

And it is complete nonsense.

There is the have's and the have not's as well.

If we are to change things it must not be something which will make us more divided.

But something which will make us more united.

And we as a society, a community, within the conspiracy theory genre can do that.

At least for ourselves independently.

Because if we are not a part of the solution we are a part of the problem.


Originally posted by raymondmonaco
Good Post Spartan,

It is a heavy burden being an upstanding member of society and I think knowing the truth can add mental and emotional stress as well.

Clearly any educated, intelligent person with a little research can see something is not right and that there is a wookie in the attic. (Forgive the Star Wars referenced)


Thank you.

We can all take a step back and learn something.

Anyone with even a remote sense of common sense can see that something is amiss.

It is however how we handle it that is important and how we react to it.

That is what is important.


Originally posted by raymondmonaco
I think it is important to step away from the conspiracies and not fall into a self propagating endless loop of interrelated conspiracy theories. There is truth and hopefully we are all seekers of it. I like as much as anyone to listen to Alex Jones and or any of the folks in the movement, but I'm saying take it easy and live life and have a beer once in a while.

:-)


Sometimes we have down time and spend it accordingly to our own needs and desires.


Originally posted by Signals
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


Great thread as usual, but I think there is one way we can "win"...

It's obvious really, if CT's can wake up enough people they force TPTB to change their plans or sometimes, cancel them altogether.

That's a win.


Yes, but what would it take to do that, without something explosive happening?

There was a pun intended there of course because of the nature of what gets our attention.

Why does it take talk of M-16's and C-4 to get us motivated?

Personally, I love both of those, but they are an extension, something to add to.

I find it quite exciting to out-think my perceived enemy.

I am not going to waste energy on them that I need not utilize.

Work smarter not harder I always say.



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 10:04 PM
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WE CAN WIN and WE WILL WIN

to those reading this now I want to let you know I am going to manipulate you emotionally and mentally. Your going to stand up and be counted.



I have a dream. I see a future where we the Americans live the Dream applied. You all know at some level what the dream is supposed to be, yet we have all failed each other. It stops today... It stops now..



So what can you do for your country. How do I take on the powers that be when I am a natural coward.

You ask a good question. I have answer you will not like.

Before I share this secret with you I have to make sure your ready. Ask yourself, am I willing to what it takes to face my inner demons. Do I have the strength to go thirteen rounds?

You answer no, dont sell yourself short...



It is really hard what I am about to ask. So hard yet so simple.

Get an education. With a brain and access from those degrees you have more options.

As you go realise the world is your classroom, keep pushing yourself and learn.

During this time help others around your get theirs. Now remember expect nothing back just get em their shot at an education and training..

If at least one of reading this does this it is a win.

Do not forget that the older ones here will be glad to help if you need it. Trust me...

At the older ones dont forget this applies to you as well...


You see if each one here is able to think then they (tptb) will have no shot at all. Knowledge is power...

this fight for mankinds survival will be won

I only ask for an once of courage



[edit on 29-6-2010 by ripcontrol]



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 06:59 PM
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What a downer Spartan...




posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


Seems to me that the only way to win, is to alter ones goals. Rather than making the goal a change in the way a nation, or indeed a world is run ,we should concentrate our efforts as conspiracists and thinkers toward continuing to believe in the truth (which ever one we subscribe to) and continuing to find it where ever it might be, and speak it where ever there is an ear to listen.


The difference however is being a "conspiracy theorist" or a "conspircist".

A "conspiracy theorist" is someone who speaks of and unravels conspiracies.

A "conspiracist" is someone who conspires, this would be the elite, those we hate.

We must try to be the first and not the second because the delineation is quite clear.

The first one is the one who will have Government try to outlaw there actions.

And the second one is those who conspire against us via outlawing us.

Our job as conspiracy theorist's is to overcome those who conspire against us.

Without stepping into becoming that which we are fighting.


He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster.

And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil, Aphorism 146



Originally posted by TrueBrit
I think thats why this website exists, it is a place to hear and see information which provides the reader/veiwer with an alternative perspective , keeps our minds sharp with debate, and prevents us thinking in a lazy manner. We might not win in terms of changing the world, we might not make a difference outside our own circles, but we can bare witness in our individual ways to what may turn into the end of the world, or just as easily could prove the advancement of the species.
Just because there may not be victory , does not automaticaly mean that defeat is the only alternative.


Of course, I have never stated we are defeated, but that our "win" is not the usually tallied one.

It will never be on a scoreboard or on a golf card where strokes are counted.

Or even miscounted.

But our "win" must be a progressive one towards a common goal.

Or else we will lose and it will not just be physical freedom.

It will be of the ability to speak and think differently.


Originally posted by Dean Goldberry
The momentum is with the (real) truthseekers, and we will inevitably Win (period, no quotation marks); it's just a question of at what point in the future will we triumph. Hopefully it's sooner than expected. Also, most "conspiracy theorists" have one HELL of a bias and plenty of preconceived notions of what's going on - i.e. Alex Jones, who's too much the religious, gun-crazed redneck. The key to healthy, reasonably unbiased conspiracy research is in having the DESIRE for the REAL, objective truth without jumping to conclusions.


And you have come closest to what I am speaking of within this thread so far.

Our skepticism must be unbiased and middle-ground or we are divided.

And if our ego is out of whack and our obsession is too unrealistic we cannot win.

Find a commonality and search towards it and find out the best objective truth.


Originally posted by nikiano
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


While I did not read your entire post, the first thought that went through my head when I read your title was "we've already won, the minute we realized the truth."

Just by opening our minds and seeing the world for the way it really is, and stop believing in the "false truth" they want everyone to believe, we've already won.

The truth shall set you free.

At least, that's the way I look at it.


Well I will be excited to see your perspective when you read the entire post.

We have won the moment we changed our own perception and refuse to listen to lies.

But we cannot also let ourselves lie to ourselves in believing our efforts go noticed by the elite, if we do not make them tremble and fear our freedom, which we already own.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by Crossfate
The goal is unity whether conscious or unconscious it is our purpose, the reason we debate, the reason we dig and the reason we are here. In order for world peace to occur, an overthrow to happen, a revolution to be ignited and for any change in the area and direction we want for any of us, we need unity to a measurable and large point.


This is of course exactly what I was referencing with this thread.

If people see this as a game they have lost before even doing anything.

However, if they are committed to actually winning, know it is a long-haul.


Originally posted by Crossfate
Until everyone or enough people can reach a specific and certain level of mental maturity, we will not have unity. Those at this point in life that are mentally matured enough to put aside trivial debates for the greater cause and larger picture are the only ones that make and will make a difference. They are in groups that are small but nonetheless growing for those that notice.


And this is where it separates the people actually doing anything.

From those who are all talk and no walk.

Which is where I see those who are Cop-haters and semi-criminal.

If they see ATS as a means to just bitch then they are wasting their time.


Originally posted by Crossfate
As it takes vast periods of time for seemingly small groups to be able to do such things for the sake of unified cause, time is nonetheless present and due to generational gaps and other external factors such as religious upbringings and traditionalized society, we have to find a way, if just one to bring enough people together for one reason to make a difference.


This happens in society, whether out where we work, or here in the conspiracy theory community.


Originally posted by Crossfate
We need 1 reason so important, so powerful, so pivotal and life altering that the mentally mature enough will put aside previous ideas for a period of time for that one cause.


That is the over all problem in that people are selfish and refuse to set aside pettiness.

Divisive, abusive, and misplaced anger, they seek to lash out.

When they are usually the problem to begin with.


Originally posted by Crossfate
Our awakening is upon the world and is approaching rapidly and at a crawling rate all together but as the generations gap and mold together our numbers teem into something threatening to TPTB. I would love to speed it all up but the only way to do that is do away with the methods of instigation, society and tradition and that my friends is something that requires a ridiculous amount of perfectly planned strategy.


Yes, and the divisive nature of people, keeps that planned strategy from working.


Originally posted by Crossfate
But then again why worry about this, I can't miss the game so good talking but I really gotta go...... because my own problems and opinions are more important to my personal comfort than to the whole which I don't recognize right now, threatens my personal security and life. So off to avoid important issues and I'm off to worry about anything but making a difference.... sound familiar?


Yes, it does, it sounds far too familiar, of bread and circuses.


Originally posted by Crossfate
Edit: I have to ask spartan, about the pics in your post. Is this to try and get the attention of those less likely to actually read your whole post or just something to use to relate general ideas? They seem kind of random unless as a purpose or method to grab attention to keep the reader interested by strategically breaking up your sections and ideas by humorous pictures. We all know after unleashed did his 2 threads how many actually will sit through and exercise their supposedly tuned mental ability.


[edit on 25-6-2010 by Crossfate]


It is a visual representation of all of the things we speak about, the different sides we see, pick, and or represent, and over all something to show they are unifying issues, if only we look deeper than ourselves.

And as well a political message to not be sidetracked by the distractions.

Showing both the lack of unity in physical represenation and a unity as yet unseen.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


Ahhh... the typical "attack the messenger" thread!

Julian Assange and his fellow at Wikileaks are WHISTLEBLOWERS, who helped revealing highly CRIMINAL behavior and actions in the hands of the US government and other NATO member States.

To break a law doesn't make you a criminal. To cause harm or damage to other people, especially armless people like the ones who were shot for NO REASON by snipers in the Iraq on these infamous videos is a unquestionable CRIME.




If we support his actions, what other actions are we willing to condone, in the name of truth?


If we support the actions of the State, what other actions are we willing to condone, in the name of the "Law"?

Moreover, did Assange hurt anyone? No. Did he do anything wrong, in basic humanitarian principles? No.

But the did hurt the foreign policy and control tactics of many NATO member States, and this is why they want him to go down, and probably why there are users and reporters here and elsewhere oon the net who are paid by the CIA to bad mouth him (like you, perhaps?). That's not because he is a criminal. Hackers are not criminals, they are spies, infiltrators, investigators, code-breakers and, at times, warriors.



posted on Jul, 10 2010 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by Esblebous
OP, some years ago i was asking myself the exact same question that you did here, and the only answer that i found stisfactory was to be the best citzen that i possibly can and to gradually teach my friends and family about the conspiracy teories.


Okay, but how does that help us win, in the long run?

Did you convert your entire family into conspiracy theorists?

Or have they become more politically aware somehow?


Originally posted by Esblebous
Being a citzen i legaly opose every law that i dont agree by going to manifestations or never again voting on the people that wrote it.


Do you think that only not voting for those you oppose is the only course of action?

Along with teaching others how to spot the political ambiguities?

And do you thin voting is the most or least you can do to affect a change?


Originally posted by Esblebous
And teaching i initially asks the most pertinent question about the official version and let the people think and rationalize it. Later, when they are more open to questioning, i teach that the rigth thing to do is find their own answers.


That sure is a good start but where did it affect change?


Originally posted by Esblebous
It may seems useless, but i have achieved great results by doing only these things, the ones around me are much more questioning and are beginning to figth agaisnt what they think is wrong.


But what type of "fight" are they now a part of and how will it change?

What I am asking is does this lead to violent or peaceful change?

Are they politically aware and "fighting" by knowing a difference?

Or are they stopping involvement in society and withdrawing completely?

Each time we do something there is a direct and indirect result of our actions.


Originally posted by Esblebous
We dont need to classicaly win to change the world around us, we only need to awaken the masses (increasing our number) and them we will have the power to change the world how we want.


You are correct there will be no scoreboard with a name of a winner.

But how will we ultimately know any end result of what is happening?

Awakening the masses is a broad term but where are the results seen?


Originally posted by Esblebous
You may disagree that only this isnt enoght, but its the maximum that i can do, and to me, its wath means "i wont go down without fighting".


I do not necessarily disagree with you, we each do our part, but ultimately what I am asking is how, where, and who will see results over all?

Will we see our tasks come to a fruition other than by our own means?

Or will we just go down in history as the people Government calls crazy?

A fringe element if you will or a force to be reckoned with ultimately?

It is our perceptions which stop us as well as our political ideologies, because in the end we are either a part of the solution, or a part of the problem.


Originally posted by USXpat
Well - one way to actually start winning is to stop treating them as theories and engage them as actionable offenses. By and large, I think we are insufficiently organized to do this effectively.


I can agree with that to an extent.

What kind of actionable offense though?

You mean filing charges and sending those conspiring to jail?

Those we speak of conspiracy theories about like Oliver North, George W. Bush, or the C.E.O. of BP PLC, Tony Hayward?

Or do you mean another type of actionable offense?

I agree 100% we are not organized in any manner.


Originally posted by USXpat
Lack of organization can be a strength in many ways - and in some ways it is the "conspiracy theorist's" greatest strength, but so also our greatest weakness.


It creates flexibility just as much as it creates division.


Originally posted by USXpat
That's usually when the call for money goes out, to start a proper organization. While money is useful, the most valuable thing we do have is time. We do what it is in our hearts and minds to do - for free. Imagine hiring a lawyer for 20 hours, then a private investigator, a couple writers, etc. - by the end of the month, one would be looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars in salaries. If we are all volunteers... then all we need is to cover our own expenses - and engage to be as economical as possible. No need for me to fly to New Orleans if there is someone already there working on the same "story".


Proper organization for what though?

Money is useful, time is valuable, and our hearts and minds are powerful.

Volunteerism is fine, getting things accomplished, but do we essentially become actionable at our own expense, or use our brains for more?

Critical thinking combined with combined resources for what end?

Will that "story" so to speak actually do anything and what will it do?

I would love to see that towards making more than tiny ripples in a huge pond.


Originally posted by USXpat
Something that combines Craig's List and Wikileaks would be quite useful.


That is interesting but ultimately what would the end result be?


Originally posted by USXpat
Anyways - I'm 100% all ears and would hope to see this discussion continue into productive directions.


So do, USXpat, so do I.


Originally posted by USXpat
There are times that I feel completely helpless against "x-y-z" - even though I know, absolutely and without doubt, that I'm not entirely helpless. There are things that I can do to help - from online investigation, to writing, perhaps even covering some aspects of online investigative training, and even limited funding for the right project.


We are only as helpless or helpful as we feel.

There are literally unlimited resources at our fingertips towards that end.

The question becomes whether we assert it correctly or work against ourselves.

Becoming a Detective of Conspiracy Theories

You sound like you're thinking of a thread I did a few years back.


Originally posted by USXpat
I've applied a lot of this to extremely good effect in the past; keep it all completely legal, and use the system against itself.


That is the only way to go because it makes a huge impact.


Originally posted by USXpat
The most valuable lesson in the military to learn (quickly) is that Sh*t rolls downhill and everyone want to CYA. Pick out the weak links and guaranteed you are bound to get some information to implicate people higher up on the chain.

Fiat Justitia Ruat Coelum!


And be careful of the crap which hits the fan because it goes everywhere.

[edit on 10-7-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Jul, 10 2010 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by notsoperfect
 


What you're essentially saying is the Hive Mind is powerful.

Do not succumb to it and resist it but do something.

And I love the metaphor of the 100 rats and the cat and who will hang the bell around the troublesome cat's neck, because we either hang it around his neck and he quits eating us, or we all hang together at the end of a gallows.

HIGH QUALITY Hoist The Colours - Full Song untouched Scene


But ultimately we either do something or we do nothing all together.


Originally posted by thaknobodi
The elite themselves are fueled by anal probes in an exponentially growing number of chairs for his minions to sit upon, each doing a different job, but each has a mark, that any child of god can see, it is an eyeball implanted in the aura.

[edit on 25-6-2010 by thaknobodi]


Okay.

I'm not sure what to think of what you have said.

It make little to no sense due to cryptic shades of innuendos.


Originally posted by Aquarius1
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


Excellent presentation OP, having said that I don't agree that we can't win, problem is no one is trying, America has gone to sleep, reading through all the examples you give the average person will give up as it seems overwhelming, that attitude sadly prevails in our country right now, I commend the Iranian people for their uprising during the Iran elections, they may not have won but at least they tried, that is more then the American people are doing.

There is a quote I love from the movie "The American President",


America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the "land of the free".


I ask you, when it the shouting going to begin.


Apathy runs deep, even on ATS, people are apathetic.

I agree when and where is the outrage over the many things going on right now?

Is it a lack of voice or a lack of cajones or perhaps a lack of fortitude?

People are either flabbergasted or they're peaceful but where is the middleground?

Why exactly does it just take an action or conspiracy to garner attention and or action, when we can simply be a part of the solution, instead of sitting on our duffs and doing little to nothing other than complain?

There is a little thing called knowledge which we either have or do not have.

Knowledge is our most powerful ally if we know how to find it.



posted on Jul, 10 2010 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by SteveR

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
I do not value anything Julian Assange has to offer it is worthless.

Because he stepped over the clear-cut line from citizen to criminal.


Legislation is a product of the elite. You seem to be conflicted here. How can you value the law so highly, yet harbor resentment to the elite? Two parts of the same animal.


Actually I do not see you as correct at all there.

Legislation can be changed through our actions but only the correct actions.

The elite do not own legislation they merely step in because of our inaction.

They know that someone has to do it and they know we will not.

We get apathy standing in our way because of a lack of knowledge.

Legislation is nothing without people to write it and or fight for it.

The question is which fight are you going to get involved with and how will your actions or inactions write what is written as law, because our inactions are as powerful as our action, ultimately it is either or those and which one it is of either that decides which legislation is written.

Or not written.


Originally posted by 1947flxible
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


what you meeant to say was this simple, they win, we loose, they have $$$$$, we do not.


If I wanted to say something that simple I simply would have.

That is not what I meant in the least and at the most you are mocking me.

Are you trying to minimalize what I am saying or are you that limited in sight?

I know how to speak, I know how to lead, and I know what I meant.

My thread was neither as simple or lackadaisical as you described.

reply to post by M0n0lyth
 


Well, thank you for your thoughts, your entertainment is assured.

That is of course your perception and you are entitled to it.

Others however see this as much more important than general boobs and butts.

reply to post by Pan7her
 


Thank you for posting both the link and the video.

Yes, racism is indeed the key to the power, it fuels hatred and division.

Which is why we must not fight amongst ourselves due to racial differences.

Race is nothing but a box to mark on a Census form or job application.

Once we begin seeing someone as different because of their skin color, and treating them differently because of that pigmentation difference, we have already lost to not only ignorance but dividing ourselves.

Half the work is done in uniting ourselves through ignorances.

Instead of uniting ourselves with a common cause to make a difference.

[edit on 10-7-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Jul, 10 2010 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by ghostpigeon
 


Glad to see you took your time and caught up with everything in this thread.

I waited to reply to everything you had to say because each person's post is answered in the order it is posted, which might suck for those waiting, but it is something I try to do, because it shows equal respect for all.

I was as well an avid reader of military history, primarily Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece, those were my favorites, although the Celts, Persians, Asia, and Vikings always interested me, but Rome and Greece were my focus.

America is but a baby when it comes to history and that of warfare.

Our Government as well took parts and pieces of each of those and adapted them within the confines of our military doctrine on many levels.

Your knowledge of Cold War history interests me as I always delved into that deeply.

In school we are not taught to think but how to recite by rote a history full of truths, half-truths, and outright blatant lies, because the victorious writes history.

Not the vanquished.

Which is what this thread is all about on so many levels and our desires.

Your comment about the Bohemian Grove resonated with me, albeit maybe not for the same reason as you mentioned it, because if we as a community ourselves, know of these things, why is nothing done about them?


Quote from : Wikipedia : Bohemian Grove

Bohemian Grove is a 2,700-acre (1,100 ha) campground located at 20601 Bohemian Avenue, in Monte Rio, California, belonging to a private San Francisco-based men's art club known as the Bohemian Club.

In mid-July each year, Bohemian Grove hosts a three-week encampment of some of the most powerful men in the world.


From all the different perspectives I have read here on ATS and elsewhere, people see that as everything from Devil worshipping to blatant ignored pot-smoking and rabblerousing of the elite, yet it goes on quietly.

I realize it is one event but it was the one you mentioned here.

Nixon Tape Discusses Homosexuals at Bohemian Grove


I can agree with you about our discussion of things as being a good start, many people have stated as such, and I am not calling for violent nor illegal action, but when will action of a more political type start?

Yes, we are all of different political ideologies, spanning each and every one of them.

We are all so various, so unique, so free-thinking, yet nothing ever comes of it.

There are factions among us, various people of different countries, some demanding violent retribution, some speaking of not voting, others speaking of just speaking, but none ever speaking of actual political action.

Well political ideology unite us, or even religion for that matter, or inaction?

Word are fine, but as I stated to someone last week, words without actions are but hollow gestures, and I see hollow gestures as futile in the end.

In the end, I do see this community as one with intelligence, but it contains ignorance as well, masked as action, through the illusion that talking and never doing more than that will make a change, because ultimately either we are going to talk, and act ignorantly, or act with considerable intelligence.

I see violent means of doing anything as quite silly if it is not directly provoked.

Violence only leads to more violence in answer and in the ends it does nothing.

Except show us as animalistic without merit of controlling ourselves in the end.

We see actions like Oliver North and it infuriates us but nothing was done beforehand.

Why not know what Government is doing through intelligent means?

Instead of just relying upon a secret to be exposed we have to know before hand, otherwise, we are merely playing catch-up or pick-up-sticks.

Thi is why I strongly encourage people to know what actions happen though knowledge of Government, on all levels, of each country, because ultimately we cannot just sit around waiting for them to confirm our fears, by then it will be far, far too late, we have to take initiative.

And the right kind of initiatve has to be taken and that to me is political.

If people fear the elections are rigged, volunteer atelection time, if people fear Congress is speaking without representating our interests, go to Washington D.C. and watch the process, if people fear the local and couny Law Enforcement is corrupt, prove it through documentation.

I do not remember a time where you have ever gone off on me once on any thread.

As to your comment about slavery, it might have been fortuitous you mentioned that, whether historical in nature, or rhetorically through verbiage, Human Trafficking is a horrendous crime in itself, but what of it, if no one does anything about it, and better yet, the action that is done is not by our choices?

But by our not choosing to do something?

If you remember in my opening post I included the bio-chip manufactured by both corporations, Verichip and Digital Angel, because that is the politicans answers to our demands of stopping Illegal Immigration, because of our complaing, whining, and bitching.

Take care lest you get exactly what you ask for and what you get is not what you want.

Here is my exact point that people want things solved for them but never step forward to be the solution instead of bitching they can lead people.

Yet people on ATS and elsewhere decry they will not wear this slave collar, but they do nothing about it, except write and speak ill of it, disagree on how it will be implemented, why it will be implemented, or if it will be implemented, yet politically they did nothing to stop it and everything to cause it.

The cause of it is simply through inaction and demanding action, they have allowed it to manifest itself in a form which they rile, rant, and rave about.

RFID Coverage: Mexican Police Chipped


Yet they deny it will happen and it is happening on the other side of our border.

The mention of Applied Digital Solutions is referenced there is it not, and it is connected to both Verichip, Digital Angel, and Destron Fearing.

Yet no one is screaming and pointing their fingers at Mexico now are they?

Because it is not on our soil, yet, but our neighbors, right next door.

So, are we the cattle, sheeple, or human through the Hive Mind?


Quote from : Wikipedia : Groupthink

Groupthink is a type of thought within a deeply cohesive in-group whose members try to minimize conflict and reach consensus without critically testing, analyzing, and evaluating ideas.

It is a second potential negative consequence of group cohesion.

Irving Janis studied a number of American Foreign policy 'disasters' such as failure to anticipate the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor (1944); the Bay of Pigs fiasco (1961) when the US adminstration sought to overthrow Cuban Government of Fidel Castro; and the prosecution of the Vietnam War (1964-67) by President Lyndon Johnson.

Studying these events that it was the cohesive nature of these important committees which made these decisions and which prevented contradictory views being expressed.

As defined by Janis, “A mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' strivings for unanimity override their motivation to realistically appraise alternative courses of action”.

Individual creativity, uniqueness, and independent thinking are lost in the pursuit of group cohesiveness, as are the advantages of reasonable balance in choice and thought that might normally be obtained by making decisions as a group.

During groupthink, members of the group avoid promoting viewpoints outside the comfort zone of consensus thinking.

A variety of motives for this may exist such as a desire to avoid being seen as foolish, or a desire to avoid embarrassing or angering other members of the group.

Groupthink may cause groups to make hasty, irrational decisions, where individual doubts are set aside, for fear of upsetting the group’s balance.

The term is frequently used pejoratively, in hindsight.

Additionally, it is difficult to assess the quality of decision making in terms of outcomes all the time, but one can almost always evaluate the quality of the decision-making process.


Because groupthink without action is what got this ball started.

And landed the laws acting as the moral undertones, backbone, and legalization of the bio-chip, yet we decry foul as if we did anything to stop it.

We did nothing but allow it to happen through our inactions.


Quote from : Wikipedia : Real ID Act

The REAL ID Act of 2005, Pub.L. 109-13, 119 Stat. 302, enacted May 11, 2005, was an Act of Congress that modified U.S. federal law pertaining to security, authentication, and issuance procedures standards for the state driver's licenses and identification (ID) cards, as well as various immigration issues pertaining to terrorism.

The law set forth certain requirements for state driver's licenses and ID cards to be accepted by the federal government for "official purposes", as defined by the Secretary of Homeland Security.

The Secretary of Homeland Security has defined "official purposes" as presenting state driver's licenses and identification cards for boarding commercially operated airline flights and entering federal buildings and nuclear power plants.

The REAL ID Act implements the following:

Changing visa limits for temporary workers, nurses, and Australian citizens.
Establishing new national standards for state-issued driver licenses and non-driver identification cards.

Funding some reports and pilot projects related to border security.

Introducing rules covering "delivery bonds" (rather like bail bonds but for aliens who have been released pending hearings).

Updating and tightening the laws on application for asylum and deportation of aliens for terrorist activity.

Waiving laws that interfere with construction of physical barriers at the borders.


As of April 2, 2008, all 50 states have either applied for extensions of the original May 11, 2008 compliance deadline or received unsolicited extensions.

As of October 2009, 25 states have approved either resolutions or binding legislation not to participate in the program, and with President Obama's selection of Janet Napolitano (a prominent critic of the program) to head the Department of Homeland Security, the future of the law remains uncertain, and bills have been introduced into Congress to amend or repeal it.

The most recent of these, dubbed PASS ID, would eliminate many of the more burdensome technological requirements but still require states to meet federal standards in order to have their ID cards accepted by federal agencies.

Bolded by SKL


Because our talking and doing nothing lead to this law being passed by political non-action.



posted on Jul, 10 2010 @ 09:36 PM
link   
perhaps some of the problem is interpretation.

my understanding is that politics is just words. that IS the speaking part. and like mama always told me "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all."

action being something that more resembles the removal of a tumor. surgical. precise. possibly fatal.

i joke, but not really.





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