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The Reason Conspiracy Theorists Can Never "Win" Against the Elite

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posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 09:34 AM
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

The only way to win, is to stop playing. Take a quiet stand. Hold it. Even when it costs you something. Don't participate as often as you practically can. Don't take their baubles. Don't fight them. Just live and do the right thing always. And pray for those mother frackers, as well. They need it.


posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 10:08 AM

The Elite or Ruling Class, It's All About Money ...

I feel that the paradigm is shifting and that the "Conspiracy Theorists" Can Win Against the Elite or for those that believe that they like Santa don't exist, lets use the term "Ruling Class" instead.

How you might ask ?

We need to begin by assessing our strengths and our weaknesses.

First and foremost is the Information Age. Our sheer numbers work to our advantage. With so many able to now share thoughts and ideas.The very age of information sharing that brings us together to discuss this matter from all points on the globe.

With the cost of computers at historic lows, and the availability of affordable internet. More and More people in the US and the Globe have access to the World Wide Web.


Assessing our commonality vs our differences.
We need to emphasize what "We the People" all have in common vs the status quo of focusing upon our differences which only perpetuates the current system of division and control by those of the Ruling Class.

This dates back to the era of Monarchs and Serfs. When the common people were kept ignorant by permitting only the wealthy to attain literacy.

The King's town crier provided the King's Approved News for them.

Not entirely unlike the system we have today and our MSM.

For regardless of our ethnic, religious, political affiliations and conspiracy theorist beliefs or not ,we all have one thing in common vs those of the Ruling Class.

And that is MONEY.

And that is EXACTLY what has been used against us to compartmentalize and differentiate us all from the Elite who make our laws and subsequent rules imposed upon all of us to follow.

Simply Look at the News of today:

"Republicans Kill Unemployment Extension in the Senate"

Replace the word "Republican" with "Wealthy Politician" and it eliminates the Political Compartmentalization aspect that maintains division amongst us all.

And instead places emphasis upon the true message which is of vastly more importance.

And that is The Jobless Americans, whether Republican or Democrat, who rely upon these benefits might be losing them.

This being Determined by a few wealthy Politicians who likely have never had a need to claim Unemployment Benefits in their entire lives.

The US Military exemplifies this concept of unity vs the detrimental effects of division in being the first to eliminate racial segregation in the Military after WWII.

For the top Brass of the Military knew that by further dividing us and creating more dissension amongst ourselves, then how could our own fighting forces cohesively unify as a force and meet the goals and objectives of the Military in fighting a common enemy ?

Give that concept some thought.

For this exemplifies why we need to assess and emphasize our commonality vs our differences in order to combat the Elite or Ruling Class !

Next: Education and The Ruling Class

posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 10:47 AM
Good Post Spartan,

It is a heavy burden being an upstanding member of society and I think knowing the truth can add mental and emotional stress as well.

Clearly any educated, intelligent person with a little research can see something is not right and that there is a wookie in the attic. (Forgive the Star Wars referenced)

I think it is important to step away from the conspiracies and not fall into a self propagating endless loop of interrelated conspiracy theories. There is truth and hopefully we are all seekers of it. I like as much as anyone to listen to Alex Jones and or any of the folks in the movement, but I'm saying take it easy and live life and have a beer once in a while.


posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 10:49 AM
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

Great thread as usual, but I think there is one way we can "win"...

It's obvious really, if CT's can wake up enough people they force TPTB to change their plans or sometimes, cancel them altogether.

That's a win.

posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 11:09 AM
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

Seems to me that the only way to win, is to alter ones goals. Rather than making the goal a change in the way a nation, or indeed a world is run ,we should concentrate our efforts as conspiracists and thinkers toward continuing to believe in the truth (which ever one we subscribe to) and continuing to find it where ever it might be, and speak it where ever there is an ear to listen.
I think thats why this website exists, it is a place to hear and see information which provides the reader/veiwer with an alternative perspective , keeps our minds sharp with debate, and prevents us thinking in a lazy manner. We might not win in terms of changing the world, we might not make a difference outside our own circles, but we can bare witness in our individual ways to what may turn into the end of the world, or just as easily could prove the advancement of the species.
Just because there may not be victory , does not automaticaly mean that defeat is the only alternative.

posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 11:13 AM
The momentum is with the (real) truthseekers, and we will inevitably Win (period, no quotation marks); it's just a question of at what point in the future will we triumph. Hopefully it's sooner than expected. Also, most "conspiracy theorists" have one HELL of a bias and plenty of preconceived notions of what's going on - i.e. Alex Jones, who's too much the religious, gun-crazed redneck. The key to healthy, reasonably unbiased conspiracy research is in having the DESIRE for the REAL, objective truth without jumping to conclusions.

posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 11:29 AM
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

While I did not read your entire post, the first thought that went through my head when I read your title was "we've already won, the minute we realized the truth."

Just by opening our minds and seeing the world for the way it really is, and stop believing in the "false truth" they want everyone to believe, we've already won.

The truth shall set you free.

At least, that's the way I look at it.

posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 11:30 AM
The goal is unity whether conscious or unconscious it is our purpose, the reason we debate, the reason we dig and the reason we are here. In order for world peace to occur, an overthrow to happen, a revolution to be ignited and for any change in the area and direction we want for any of us, we need unity to a measurable and large point.

Until everyone or enough people can reach a specific and certain level of mental maturity, we will not have unity. Those at this point in life that are mentally matured enough to put aside trivial debates for the greater cause and larger picture are the only ones that make and will make a difference. They are in groups that are small but nonetheless growing for those that notice.

As it takes vast periods of time for seemingly small groups to be able to do such things for the sake of unified cause, time is nonetheless present and due to generational gaps and other external factors such as religious upbringings and traditionalized society, we have to find a way, if just one to bring enough people together for one reason to make a difference.

We need 1 reason so important, so powerful, so pivotal and life altering that the mentally mature enough will put aside previous ideas for a period of time for that one cause.

Our awakening is upon the world and is approaching rapidly and at a crawling rate all together but as the generations gap and mold together our numbers teem into something threatening to TPTB. I would love to speed it all up but the only way to do that is do away with the methods of instigation, society and tradition and that my friends is something that requires a ridiculous amount of perfectly planned strategy.

But then again why worry about this, I can't miss the game so good talking but I really gotta go...... because my own problems and opinions are more important to my personal comfort than to the whole which I don't recognize right now, threatens my personal security and life. So off to avoid important issues and I'm off to worry about anything but making a difference.... sound familiar?

Edit: I have to ask spartan, about the pics in your post. Is this to try and get the attention of those less likely to actually read your whole post or just something to use to relate general ideas? They seem kind of random unless as a purpose or method to grab attention to keep the reader interested by strategically breaking up your sections and ideas by humorous pictures. We all know after unleashed did his 2 threads how many actually will sit through and exercise their supposedly tuned mental ability.

[edit on 25-6-2010 by Crossfate]

posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 11:35 AM
OP, some years ago i was asking myself the exact same question that you did here, and the only answer that i found stisfactory was to be the best citzen that i possibly can and to gradually teach my friends and family about the conspiracy teories.

Being a citzen i legaly opose every law that i dont agree by going to manifestations or never again voting on the people that wrote it.

And teaching i initially asks the most pertinent question about the official version and let the people think and rationalize it. Later, when they are more open to questioning, i teach that the rigth thing to do is find their own answers.

It may seems useless, but i have achieved great results by doing only these things, the ones around me are much more questioning and are beginning to figth agaisnt what they think is wrong.

We dont need to classicaly win to change the world around us, we only need to awaken the masses (increasing our number) and them we will have the power to change the world how we want.

You may disagree that only this isnt enoght, but its the maximum that i can do, and to me, its wath means "i wont go down without fighting".

posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 11:36 AM
Well - one way to actually start winning is to stop treating them as theories and engage them as actionable offenses. By and large, I think we are insufficiently organized to do this effectively.

Lack of organization can be a strength in many ways - and in some ways it is the "conspiracy theorist's" greatest strength, but so also our greatest weakness.

That's usually when the call for money goes out, to start a proper organization. While money is useful, the most valuable thing we do have is time. We do what it is in our hearts and minds to do - for free. Imagine hiring a lawyer for 20 hours, then a private investigator, a couple writers, etc. - by the end of the month, one would be looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars in salaries. If we are all volunteers... then all we need is to cover our own expenses - and engage to be as economical as possible. No need for me to fly to New Orleans if there is someone already there working on the same "story".

Something that combines Craig's List and Wikileaks would be quite useful.

Anyways - I'm 100% all ears and would hope to see this discussion continue into productive directions.

There are times that I feel completely helpless against "x-y-z" - even though I know, absolutely and without doubt, that I'm not entirely helpless. There are things that I can do to help - from online investigation, to writing, perhaps even covering some aspects of online investigative training, and even limited funding for the right project.

I've applied a lot of this to extremely good effect in the past; keep it all completely legal, and use the system against itself.

The most valuable lesson in the military to learn (quickly) is that Sh*t rolls downhill and everyone want to CYA. Pick out the weak links and guaranteed you are bound to get some information to implicate people higher up on the chain.

Fiat Justitia Ruat Coelum!

posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 11:41 AM
100 rats unanimously voted and decided to hang a bell on the cat's neck that always kills and eats one after the other of them so that they can know before hand when the cat is going to come. But when the question came down to the point who is going to do it, no rat came forward. Not a single rat came forward to hang the bell on the neck of the devlish cat.

Isn't that the situation we are up against?

Alex Jones and other bunch of cospiracy theorists are shouting, screaming and yelling the cat is there eating us one by one while no other rats can even realize that is happening. At least all the rats should know that is happening and then what? No rat is going to volunteer to hang the bell let alone removing the CAT.

You have to be smart to disable the CAT. The cat has the modus operandi that works like the way queen bee controls her colony. It's the distribution of the specific engime as well as the honey. In human society, it is the money and the secret societal engime that controls the human hives.

How can you break the human hive society where you are a perpetual slave of the Queen Bee, the money printers?

Simple, develop the free energy resources and make it available to the humanity. It is out there and you need to take a look at it. Participate in that direction. That's the only way to free yourself from the hive society.

Why there is ATS and all other conspiracy theoriests screaming and yelling?

Because Humans were not "originally" created to be happy by belonging to a HIVE society.

posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 12:16 PM
The elite themselves are fueled by anal probes in an exponentially growing number of chairs for his minions to sit upon, each doing a different job, but each has a mark, that any child of god can see, it is an eyeball implanted in the aura.

[edit on 25-6-2010 by thaknobodi]

posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 12:34 PM
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

Excellent presentation OP, having said that I don't agree that we can't win, problem is no one is trying, America has gone to sleep, reading through all the examples you give the average person will give up as it seems overwhelming, that attitude sadly prevails in our country right now, I commend the Iranian people for their uprising during the Iran elections, they may not have won but at least they tried, that is more then the American people are doing.

There is a quote I love from the movie "The American President",

America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the "land of the free".

I ask you, when it the shouting going to begin.

posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 12:53 PM

Originally posted by antonia
When did anyone get a monopoly on truth?

I'm not quite sure myself. I do not recall saying that anyone did. However if you can show in my post where I said that I will have to commit myself in a mental institution because that would mean that my mind is not operating properly.

Originally posted by antonia
Truth is a subjective idea. It depends on your point of view.

No I am sorry you are incorrect. Now let me prove it.

In 1492 when Columbus sailed the blue. Most of the world thought that planet earth was flat.

They were all wrong. Just because someone thinks something does not make it the truth.

I believe 1 + 1 = 2 what do you believe?

If it isn't 2 then you are out of grasp with reality, or mentally disturbed, otherwise no engine could ever start. Unless you can show me that your entire life you were taught that 1 + 1 = something else due to a bad school system or what we all face each day. Propaganda. You are mentally disturbed.

And isn't that what the elite is all about? Destroying the truth. Not only to themselves but to the entire world, by spreading propaganda so that others believe in the insane ideas that they preach.

Originally posted by antonia
The problem is that many people are so egotistically attached to their world view. They just have to be right.

Yes I agree in some people this is the case, and most likely more than some. But when your wrong your wrong.

Let me prove my point again.

Have you ever gone to school? When you took a test and answered incorrectly what happened?

Did your answer become truth and the text books taken out of the school and re-written? I hope not.
Everytime I answered incorrectly my answer was marked incorrect. It does not mater what I thought, I was wrong. Never was the worlds view point forced to change because I was incorrect.

The truth is the truth, even if no one knows what the truth is. The truth is what happened. How was the moon created? Do we know, not yet. Truth yet to come.

Refusing to believe factual truth is called psychosis in the world of psychology. A mental disorder. It does not change reality. They are still wrong.

Now if someone was propagandized then they have not seen all the facts. There belief is uneducated. This is not psychosis. Their are still wrong though. It is different than being faced with true facts and denying that these facts exists. That is psychosis. Remember the world is still round in shape no mater how many believe it to be otherwise.

Originally posted by antonia
And what is a win? Is it just getting the "Elite" out?

Well let me state my purpose in life as well as my position on freedom. I support freedom and will be a freedom fighter till I die. This means I wish to raise all people to the same level. To do this I must protect the truth at all times, BECAUSE THE MORE LIES YOU BELIEVE THE MORE EASILY YOU ARE CONTROLLED. Isn't that what the elite want? To control everyone?

If you believe in tyranny as a way to achieve your means, then some of your statements are true. Because no one ever practiced tyranny without destroying the truth. Tyranny is the opposite of Freedom. Putting others down so that you can feel better about yourself. Insanity!

The deeply insecure & insane elite create magazines, websites, pamphlets, commercials and more to force their incorrect view points onto you in into your mind. Basic mind control.

So WINever the truth comes out we win, if your fighting for freedom that is.

Speaking of hiding the truth Al & wife are splitup, did your news tell you this yet? Another example of the insane elite. How about GW Bush for yet another?


posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 01:30 PM

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
I do not value anything Julian Assange has to offer it is worthless.

Because he stepped over the clear-cut line from citizen to criminal.

Legislation is a product of the elite. You seem to be conflicted here. How can you value the law so highly, yet harbor resentment to the elite? Two parts of the same animal.

posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 01:31 PM
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

what you meeant to say was this simple, they win, we loose, they have $$$$$, we do not.

posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 02:21 PM

Originally posted by arbiture
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

Very good thread. I read about a lot of people here feeling overwhelmed and under armed, but if we share ideas we also come up with new ones. I've posted on ATS on the subject of conspiracies a number of times, for many reasons but for the most part because conspiracies as a concept provide very precise physical tools in understanding human behavior as well as subjective-factored AI systems.

I could not agree with you more because human behavior is fascinating.

And the concept of Artificial Intelligence is extreme in nature because of the very nature of what it entails to begin with, intelligence outside of human causal states, but under a semblance of human control through protocols.

The problem however with A.I. is if and when it see humanity as a threat.

How do we keep that in check with anything other than the three-laws of robotics?

Quote from : Wikipedia : Three Laws of Robotics

In science fiction, the Three Laws of Robotics are a set of three rules written by Isaac Asimov, which almost all positronic robots appearing in his fiction must obey.

Introduced in his 1942 short story "Runaround", although foreshadowed in a few earlier stories, the Laws state the following:

“1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

2. A robot must obey any orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.”

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the first passage in Asimov's short story "Liar!" (1941) that mentions the First Law is the earliest recorded use of the word robotics.

Asimov was not initially aware of this; he assumed the word already existed by analogy with mechanics, hydraulics, and other similar terms denoting branches of applied knowledge.

The Three Laws form an organizing principle and unifying theme for Asimov's fiction, appearing in his Robot series and the other stories linked to it, as well as his Lucky Starr series of science-oriented young-adult fiction.

Other authors working in Asimov's fictional universe have adopted them, and references (often parodic) appear throughout science fiction and in other genres.

Isaac Asimov: The Three Laws of Robotics

Thank you for not stagnating the thread, but opening it up to further discourse, because the three-laws argument, about robots, and A.I., opens the discussion up to a different aspect entirely, that of MK-ULTRA.

Quote from : Wikipedia : MKULTRA

Project MKULTRA, or MK-ULTRA, was the code name for a covert, illegal CIA human research program, run by the Office of Scientific Intelligence.

This official U.S. government program began in the early 1950s, continuing at least through the late 1960s, and it used United States and Canadian citizens as its test subjects.

The published evidence indicates that Project MKULTRA involved the surreptitious use of many types of drugs, as well as other methods, to manipulate individual mental states and to alter brain function.

Project MKULTRA was first brought to wide public attention in 1975 by the U.S. Congress, through investigations by the Church Committee, and by a presidential commission known as the Rockefeller Commission.

Investigative efforts were hampered by the fact that CIA Director Richard Helms ordered all MKULTRA files destroyed in 1973; the Church Committee and Rockefeller Commission investigations relied on the sworn testimony of direct participants and on the relatively small number of documents that survived Helms' destruction order.

Although the CIA insists that MKULTRA-type experiments have been abandoned, 14-year CIA veteran Victor Marchetti has stated in various interviews that the CIA routinely conducts disinformation campaigns and that CIA mind control research continued.

In a 1977 interview, Marchetti specifically called the CIA claim that MKULTRA was abandoned a "cover story."

On the Senate floor in 1977, Senator Ted Kennedy said:

The Deputy Director of the CIA revealed that over thirty universities and institutions were involved in an "extensive testing and experimentation" program which included covert drug tests on unwitting citizens "at all social levels, high and low, native Americans and foreign." Several of these tests involved the administration of '___' to "unwitting subjects in social situations." At least one death, that of Dr. Olson, resulted from these activities. The Agency itself acknowledged that these tests made little scientific sense. The agents doing the monitoring were not qualified scientific observers.

To this day most specific information regarding Project MKULTRA remains highly classified.

This is of course one of those rather highly controversial things which Government did, or still does, depending upon which version you believe, in creating, controlling, and sending on dirty missions, mind-controlled assassins.

Now, if we as a community, the conspiracy theorist community, can find de-classified documents, open-source intelligence, and sift through libraries worth of books to figure out the crimes, not of just one Government, but of both Government’s, in this case both America and Russia, due to the Cold War mentality, it is our duty to not just talk about it, write about it, or expose it, but actually take that information to the United Nations on behalf of the people it has been committed against, often political targets like John Lennon or Martin Luther King Jr., or any other person you care to name, who are people who tried to inspire people to be better, and to stand for something, anything, except corruption within Government.

But stealing classified documents to expose that secret?

Hell no.

Why make it easier for Government to have a reason to snatch our butts and make us disappear?

I know I will not run but there are those who will run and or end up as the fleeing felon.

While I do not agree with MK-Ultra I sure as Hell do not agree with committing a crime to expose a crime.

Originally posted by arbiture
I was first exposed to conspiracy as a concept in my first job when introduced to its action figure, compartmentalization. I also designed simulations, models, and "war games"for my company and clients. Later I saw similarities between conspiracy and secrecy, covert and criminal activity and how people perceived and reacted to them. The people who where most likely to believe in a conspiracy real or imagined were the ones who felt they were or are the victim of an injustice, the got short stick, etc. If they didn't considered themselves victimized, there were events that were usually large in scope and and long in duration things they did not understand and could not control. If answers and response is not prompt the next step is people need a villain (sound familiar?) Next was was peoples suspicion of an event based on perceptions or events after the fact.

Compartmentalization is one of the most bureaucratic quagmires we can see within our Government. While I will happily pay what tax-money I owe, I will use an accountant to make sure I keep every dime and or penny that is mine, but I sure as Hell do not want my hard-earned money going to pay for the Government to commit a crime on my behalf, neither do I want any other Government of another country to commit a crime against America. Such is the nature of Government, the competitive nature of the “control mechanisms” we live under, and those people who control them, whether they be an elected official, a tyrannical dictator, or even a puppet dictator placed into power to create a semblance of a threat.

Originally posted by arbiture
As in the Kennedy Assassination, who along with RFK I believe these were true, classic conspiracies. But not perfect. If perfect we never would have questioned the party line. Also when authority seem to duck, contradict themselves, lie and get that looks bad. Does it feel like a conspiracy? Actually, quite rarely. If it involves government. it angers me because I also pay taxes, other then disinformation, never underestimate the killing power pointed at your tax money of "civil stupid" A conspiracy to be successful does not have to be perfect. It just has to be effective. As for the Moon Landing being fake? AAGGHH! Please, if you think it was not real ASK THE RUSSIANS Please! Don't you think the Russians who were watching every second would have kept a fake landing quite?

Jack and Robert Kennedy was indeed classic conspiracies, in the truest sense of the definition, it is sad indeed that the truth has never come out about the events of that day in 1963. The question still remains to this day whether Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, as a “lone nut”, or if he was a patsy, and Government covered up all the details.

This is to me one of the biggest reasons America turned away from trusting Government, because of the official story, it clashed with everything happening during the Warren Commission, and anyone knowing anything about why a “commission” is formed within Government to begin with, it is because of the sensitive nature of not only foul-ups within the systems of three branches of Government, but within the inter-sanctuary of the Law Enforcement community, meaning all sorts of bad things went down on the inside.

I am sure if the Government had told us the real details of what happened, instead of a baloney story, America might have eventually forgiven and or understood the nature of what happened better, and the conspiracy theory community might not be an diverse as it is today. In fact many of us might not even be here questioning Government to begin with, if not for the details being hidden from the public of J.F.K.’s assassination. This and other stories and or beliefs may have never been formed to begin with, not because of people doubting Government benevolence, but the fact that they actually admitted mistakes were made, and through their cover-up not only did they cause more dissent, but they created the damn problems they are fighting today.

Namely us within the conspiracy theory community unraveling their hidden secrets and crimes.

Originally posted by arbiture
There are certain quite normal activities that can look "suspicious", if conspiratorial there not doing a good job. I heard a story years ago from a retired FBI agent about an operation that was blown because an operative got into an argument with his target. If he had worked for me he would have wished he was killed in the line of fire. A number of things are important, but THE cardinal rule that those the conspiracy is directed at is for them NO SURPRISES it must flow effortlessly, and be unmemorable.
A conspiracy requires a minimum of two people. Engaged in an activity
they want to conceal from every one else. Legally many criminal activities are conspiracies, but I see operations more as components,process,results. Its easy to confuse though often joined at the hip deception and conspiracy, but its really very easy. Conspiracy is deception riding a Harley. Its braking, turning, stopping. and having a hell of a lot of fun doing it. A conspiracy is a virtual perception and recognition of an anticipated reality that is false. The goal is you see it, you believe it, you act on it. The best conspiracy is the best theater.

I could not agree with you more, which is why exactly I became involved within the conspiracy theory genre, it is sexy as Hell to use your brain and figure out how to unravel the conspiracies, using intelligence, understanding, and comprehension to find details is God given fun time for me. As I mentioned prior to your post, Julian Assange, the man who ran Wikileaks to me, is a traitor to the conspiracy theory community, he broke a cardinal rule himself and crossed into committing a crime, to expose the crimes he saw as heinous.

And it sparked off a difference of opinion between myself and another ATS member.

Hey she and I can agree, disagree, and agree to disagree all we want, but when it comes to Government, they can and will find and prosecute Assange, whether we like it or not, agree upon the details or not. The problem with Assange’s actions now are though now monumental, because according to various sources, he has State Department cables (classified communications), which could literally put America in a tailspin and have violent consequences for us. From Afghanistan kicking out our American consulate, to America insisting Australia declare Assange a fugitive of justice via threat of diplomatic ties being weakened and our treaties with our sister country being strained, to Al Quaeda trying to capture Assange and use the details of his classified information to further destroy any political ties with us in the Middle East.

The over all biggest consequences of his actions is that it could as well lead to full on outright war where everyone within the Middle East piles on and kicks our butts out and takes away all of the oil from us, skyrocketing the costs of our infrastructure through the rise of cost of everything involving petroleum based products. The thing to me about Government, that I hate, is that if we’re in Afghanistan to maintain the oil pipelines, or going into Iraq to take out Saddam Hussein for more oil rights, just tell me that instead of lying to the American people, myself included, because otherwise it is a lie by omission. It is one thing for our Government to lie to our perceived enemies, it is wholly another thing for them to lie to us on top of it, thereby making it not only one lie but two lies, and therefore being completely in the wrong.

That is after all apparently what diplomacy is all about but according to the C.I.A. “the truth shall set you free”.

Sanctimonious horse-puckey if you ask me.

Originally posted by arbiture
One way people can gain self confidence which is important if you want to involved in activity to change or influence something, is you alone control. That could be internet research. The more control we feel we have, the less vulnerable we feel. But in reality we are less vulnerable to things like coercion, even deception. Not all conspiracies are sneaky, well yes, they are but I don't care. For example in case where people in certain parts of the world are taken advantage of by warlords, petty officials, (very petty), people may be the wrong tribe, religion (sound familiar), they may be denied food, medicine, education or worse. But there are people who care and want to help. And if they use methods less then conventional, who am I to judge? Anyway, the way I see it. "Conspiracies are not sneaky. People are sneaky"

[edit on 25/6/10 by arbiture]

[edit on 25/6/10 by arbiture]

I agree with you there wholeheartedly.

The conspiracies are not sneaky, it is the people committing them, who indeed are sneaky.

Your last part made me think of the motives for spying.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Motives for Spying

There are many suggested motives for spying that an individual may have.

In general, espionage carries heavy penalties, with spies often being regarded as traitors, and so motivating factors must usually be quite large.
There have been various attempts to explain why people become spies.

One common theory is summed up by the acronym "MICE", which stands for "Money, Ideology, Compromise or Coercion (depending on source), and Ego".

Other explanations have stressed the role of disaffection and grudges, or of personal links.

And it makes me wonder what motives Julian Assange used on his source of leaked materials. I fully understand his intent, it was to uncover those conspiracies we so enjoy speaking about, but the motives are what are truly in question, and the means of how he came by that information is completely unscrupulous as far as I see them.

posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 02:40 PM

Originally posted by thetruthplease
I'm not quite sure myself. I do not recall saying that anyone did. However if you can show in my post where I said that I will have to commit myself in a mental institution because that would mean that my mind is not operating properly.

It's a good thing I wasn't talking to you wasn't it? If it was in reply to you it would have been stated as such.

Originally posted by antonia
Truth is a subjective idea. It depends on your point of view.

No I am sorry you are incorrect. Now let me prove it.

In 1492 when Columbus sailed the blue. Most of the world thought that planet earth was flat.

They were all wrong. Just because someone thinks something does not make it the truth.

I believe 1 + 1 = 2 what do you believe?

If it isn't 2 then you are out of grasp with reality, or mentally disturbed, otherwise no engine could ever start. Unless you can show me that your entire life you were taught that 1 + 1 = something else due to a bad school system or what we all face each day. Propaganda. You are mentally disturbed.

And isn't that what the elite is all about? Destroying the truth. Not only to themselves but to the entire world, by spreading propaganda so that others believe in the insane ideas that they preach.

You are confusing scientific fact with political truth. Considering the very nature of politics there can be no truth. There can be certain points of view yes, but there can be no truth. Do not confuse the two issues.

Yes I agree in some people this is the case, and most likely more than some. But when your wrong your wrong.

How do you prove a purely political viewpoint wrong? We are not discussing science here. We are discussing politics.

Everytime I answered incorrectly my answer was marked incorrect. It does not mater what I thought, I was wrong. Never was the worlds view point forced to change because I was incorrect.

The truth is the truth, even if no one knows what the truth is. The truth is what happened. How was the moon created? Do we know, not yet. Truth yet to come.

You are yet again confusing academics with politics. How can you prove a political point of view right or wrong? Political viewpoints are subjective. They depend on one's experience, background, etc.

Refusing to believe factual truth is called psychosis in the world of psychology. A mental disorder. It does not change reality. They are still wrong.

Ok, since you seem to think I am in some deeply psychotic state why don't you prove your ultimate political truth then?

Isn't that what the elite want? To control everyone?

I couldn't tell you. You couldn't tell me either.

Speaking of hiding the truth Al & wife are splitup, did your news tell you this yet? Another example of the insane elite. How about GW Bush for yet another?

I don't care where Al Gore sticks his penis. It has nothing to do with me.

posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 02:44 PM
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

I have no desire to win over the elite. I do it all strictly for entertainment. That is the only reason I come to this site actually.

There is no possible way for me to know what to believe on this site. I can only judge for myself and a thread written by a stranger can do nothing more than provide another angle to explore. Pure entertainment at it's finest!

I find the doom and gloom threads to hold the highest entertainment value.

posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 02:49 PM
Sianara posted a great video on divide and conquer
and thought it was spot on, since we tend to be fighting over the issues rather than unite against the elite.

i thought i would add it to this thread

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