Are animal rights equal to those of people?

I was reading the sea turtle bbq thread and my brain started churning. I wouldn't think twice about the sea turtles if the time spent saving them would be detrimental to the human population on the Louisiana coast or other marine life for that matter. Now there are some people who seem to think they are better than the rest of us because they place a higher value or equal value on animal vs human life.

I started thinking about Michael Vick's Jail sentence for dogfighting. And I see people convicted of killing another human being that didn't get as severe of a punishment as Vick.

I also recall a day on my farm in Virginia. I was burning off a small field. My lab was going nuts. Running into the fire then running to the porch. She did this 4 times. When I made my way to the porch she had a pile of baby bunnies on her bed. Their eyes weren't even open yet. One of them was dead, hell she's a lab, she was throwing it in the air and catching it and biting it when it squealed. DOgs will be dogs.

I took the remaining bunnies and my wife heated a hot water bottle and put them in a box with the bottle and a towel. I called the PETA office in Norfolk VA. It was about 9 oclock at night. I told the lady who answered that I was burning a field close to my house, keeps the snakes away from the back yard and the kids, and told her the story about my lab and the bunnies. I told her that I wasn't going to raise baby rabbits so if they'd like I'd keep them safe and warm until PETA would pick them up.

The PETA rep chastized me for burning the field and protecting my kids. She said that if I hadn't burned the field they'd still have their home. I said that's irrelevant at this point as the field is burned off and the bunnies are in a box in my living room. SHe asked me who I was to make the determination that protecting my kids from snakes was more important than the bunnies habitat. I explained that the bunnies failed to sign a lease with me and were squatters. And they were quite lucky that I actually took the time to call PETA rather than tossing them in the woods or letting my lab have her way with them.

She repeatedly told me how ashamed I should be. I told her that she needed to send someone for the bunnies. SHe told me that they were quite busy with paperwork etc, and that I shouldn't have destroyed their habitat. My response was isn't this what you do? Take care and protect animals? I'm trying to do the right thing here and give the bunnies to you, do you want them or are you going to be responsible for their death? She said she would come out and get the bunnies. SHe did. She was quite nasty and explained to me that the bunny habitat was far more important than keeping my backyard clear of snakes. I should have my kids play indoors. I eventually got sick of her attitude and told her to leave the property or I'd call the sheriff.

I grew up on a farm. I grew up hunting and fishing. Not for sport. We ate what we killed. We used dogs for deer hunting, we cared for these creatures and treated them with respect and dignity. THey were well cared for. If your going to keep an animal you have to take care of it properly. If you kill it eat it, or give the meat to someone who needs it. We always did.

But I never put the value of an animal ahead of a human life or even on equal footing. I detest animal cruelty. But if it's an animal life or a human life, the human wins every time. For us to be on equal footing sounds psychotic to me. But that's my belief. I think folks that are cruel to animals, beating their dogs, causing them to be malnurished, etc deserve to be punished. But I think more along the lines of a fine than 2 years in jail like Vick did.

The folks that put animals and humans on equal terms or even elevate animals to a higher degree of importance strike me as self rightous fools. I've always viewed animals as a tool, as food.... I don't consider hunting cruel. My father made me track a gutshot deer for 2 miles through a thicket so it wouldn't suffer. And he was right to do so.

TO the people who elevate animal life above humans, how do you justify that? And to the people who believe that animals are not on equal footing with us, what is your opinion of these people? And to the people who think animal life is irrelevant and cruelty is ok, how do you justify that? I'm just curious. I don't want to force anyone into my belief structure, even if I think they are worng. But elaborate for me.

reply to post by DrJay1975


In many ways I feel they should have more rights than humans. You don't see them stripping our resources and destroying our planet, I think all humans should DIE!!!! REALLY!!!!!

Edit to add: Humans are a cancer on Earth and we should be excised quickly and without mercy from this Earth forever!!!!!!

[edit on 22-6-2010 by ldyserenity]

reply to post by DrJay1975


I was once asked a question by a close friend of mine. If I was faced with a choice between ten human children, and the lives of the last two remaining Siberian Tigers, which would I choose? I had to think about it for a while. In the end, I concluded I would choose the Siberian Tigers to live.

Humanity in general is destructive. We are unable to co-exist with other species, cannot live in peace with the environment, and multiply so quickly that your local Rabbit population would be proud. We drive other species to the brink of extinction, force them to live in cages, and treat them horribly.

That is not to say that I don't support the hunting of 'game animals'. I personally love the taste of Elk and the taste of a good sirloin. That's the type of species we are. However I subscribe to the 'waste not' ideology.

My wife and I own four pets. Two felines, two canines, and are very closely bonded to both. I would be willing to kill another human being if it meant protecting our pets, as I consider them family. I'd have no regrets over it, either. Animals can't speak for themselves, they can't really defend themselves, and we need to do it for them.

This reply is a mess and jumps around quite a bit. I hope you can somewhat comprehend what I am trying to say.

[edit on 22-6-2010 by The Theorist]

Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by DrJay1975

 

Edit to add: Humans are a cancer on Earth and we should be excised quickly and without mercy from this Earth forever!!!!!!

[edit on 22-6-2010 by ldyserenity]

Then start with yourself. Stop preaching from your stupid horse.

Animals have no rights. That is how it should be.

But we need protections and laws in place from preventing ourselves from extincting certain animals. Also, whatever path we go along, we must do it humanely in societies eyes or there will be large discomfort.

I just had some shrimp tonight...peeled the shell and legs right off that critter and dipped it into some cocktail sauce. Then I went home to my dogs.

The benefits of being cute and (I assume) tasting bad can mean quite a lot.

Though I adore animals with a passion, I would have to say I would save a human first. Then again, it would depend on who the human was.

Man, saving the last two tigers or ten children? The children would come first, but how devestating to see the last of the tigers die.

lets face it, we are not going to go extinct. the only specie that can kill us is us. animals on the other hand, once they're gone, they're gone forever.

Lol. Rights? Planet destroying? We've done nothing, at all, that even comes CLOSE to "Planet Destroying" deeds. You know what did? A ****ing asteroid.



At any moment in time, we would be wiped out, and the Earth would return to normal. Species of animals die, and have died, since forever. Animals destroy each other. They kill each other. They commit acts of violence. They do stupid things, just like humans.


Animals change their ecosystems all the damn time. They destroy old ecosystems, and create new ecosystems. What is this garbage about "raping the earth of it's resources"?

To what other ****ing creature is OIL a resource to? To who else but us? We found a use for it. There are creatures that survive in MUCH harsher environments than what we have here.



Some people act as though the world was void of chaos and destruction before us. "blahblahblah, pollution" Yet no one thinks about when nature goes on the fritz and goes all deadly algae on marine life, killing tons of fish.

"it's a natural process, so that is okay"

Lol.

The idea of "Rights" as a natural framework that exists for all living beings is not real. Human rights, Gay rights, Animal rights etc. are all constructs created by human societies. A group of castaways that land on a deserted island in the middle of nowhere have no rights and freedoms unless there is a consensus between the majority that there are. It's the same as animals in the wild.

While I agree that animals should be treated with compassion, saying they have actual rights is applying a human-made concept to a non-human subject. I know that might sound cold, but I feel it is reality.

I believe everything in moderation. I sure as hell hunt, i love it. but then again i believe even humanitys murderous instints need tameing on occasions.
Extinctions are natural sure. But man made ones are unnatural in thier progression. in the matter of a single generation we could decimate a species. No other animal can do this. Only those that do not adapt should die. a single generation doesnt allow for this natural prosses.
How even as i would kill animals in times of need, should someone threaten my dogs i wouldnt hesitate to resort with any force i deam needed.
The world would be far better off with out certain humans, and frankly i think theirs too many of us, but i wouldnt go so far as to remove us all.
In short save the few, protect the loved, remove the theats and hope it all works out.

Since when are "humans" any different than "animals"? When it comes to evolution humans and animals share common ancestors. And when it comes to logic, reason, and things like that - we're not "so far advanced" as to be somehow no longer animals.

In the present day we can do a lot of things that animals cannot, but things that animals are doing right now, were things we did at one point in the existence of homo sapiens. Hunting, gathering, using our senses for tracking, forming bands/packs/families. Utilizing natural locations for shelter, warmth and food.

If you wouldn't lock a man in a cage to be gawked at by animals all day - why would you lock an animal in a cage to be gawked at by humans all day?

Do they deserve rights though... no. No one deserves rights, because, as one posted mentioned earlier, rights/laws are just a construct human society has invented to try and control our "animal" side.

Just respect animals, and their environment, the same way you would hope your neighbors would respect you, and your environment. We all live on this planet together, let's not ruin it for anything, human or animal.

I think all living things have a basic fundamental right . Food , water ,shelter ,territory etc . However in our society animals have more rights than humans (legal fact ) .Period ! A migratory bird doesn't need a bloody passport .Doesn't need title deeds or building permit to build a home and raise a family . Doesn't pay counsel rates for access to water and can collect it's own food . If we interfere with that birds rights we go to jail under various acts of the law .Can we do that ? We less rights than even vermin , think about it .

All life is sacred. It's something I've always thought, even since a child. I even avoid killing insects. What differs us form any organism? Life is life. Humans are smarter, yes, but that doesn't give us the right to justify the genocide of every single animal on earth.

I can only hope that one day eating meat will be viewed the same as smoking cigarettes (looked down upon). People need to realize there are no benefits of killing mass amount of animals for food. It's disgusting. We are natural herbivores.

We are destroying our planet. Destroying ecosystems. Killing hundreds of trillions of animals. Causing pain and suffering to things that feel pain the same as you or I.

How can we sustain this behavior? How can we continue to feed billions of humans by raising trillions of animals on such limited resources? How can we justify our actions?

Google Video Link

[edit on 23-6-2010 by 11:11]

reply to post by 11:11


Eating plants is still killing life ... Since when are plants not living organisms?

...


And animals destroy ecosystems all the time. Animals slaughter each other for food, all the time. No one made them do it. They did it before humans were around. How come no one is preaching to animals about not being violent and killing each other?


Oh, yeah. That would be "unnatural".



[edit on 23-6-2010 by SentientBeyondDesign]

People project thier own feelings into animals but animals are not self conscious like humans they live on instinct. So when someone is complaining how the poor animal is feeling they are assuming it feels what they would feel in the same situation, but animals do not feel what people feel.

I don't think they should be abused or killed wantonly but they certainly are not on par with Humans.

I am not to worried about them going extinct animals go extinct all the time it is part of the life cycle. To say they are gone forever is a bit short sighted IMO. How did they get here in the first place? How was the first Siberian tiger placed on this earth? Cannot the same power that created the earth and everything on it and in it reintroduce any species it wants at anytime?

That is not to say it is ok to hunt animals to extinction but we should excercise restraint and only hunt what we eat or can use etc.

And nice job 13th Zodiac, someone gets it!


[edit on 23-6-2010 by hawkiye]

I'm unsure if they should have a higher footing yet I will not dispute the fact that they are definitely they are on equal footing with us. They can sense when danger is coming, for we sometimes look at them for any signs of unnatural behaviour.

I do believe that we have treated them disgustingly. As an above post mentioned, I would choose the tigers, which are hunted down near to death due to us. I do also believe that animals are intelligent...I think that we are a race who believe we are superior but we`re not. Yet when e.g. Dolphins are murdered by us we don't do anything but when they do...we go into a rampage.

I do think we have a right to kill for food but not pure pleasure.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by SentientBeyondDesign
reply to post by 11:11

 

Eating plants is still killing life ... Since when are plants not living organisms?

...


And animals destroy ecosystems all the time. Animals slaughter each other for food, all the time. No one made them do it. They did it before humans were around. How come no one is preaching to animals about not being violent and killing each other?


Oh, yeah. That would be "unnatural".

[edit on 23-6-2010 by SentientBeyondDesign]

Interesting thought.

Your attitude only exemplifies man's ignorance. It will undoubtedly be many generations before the consensus shifts to a proper understanding of our place here on Earth.

We share this place with our fellow animals, we are experiencing this net of life and time together, as one. We cannot continue to destroy so much life.

Back to your thought:
Animals eating other animals and "destroying" ecosystems is natural. It's life. Skinning animals for decoration, fashion or furniture, drinking the milk meant for a mothers infant, eating extremely high quantities of meat, forcing hormones into animals for higher meat yields, putting animals in cages for entertainment, riding animals for fun, trawling, gassing unwanted cats and dogs, etc etc. is not natural.

I suppose your next post will be to tell me the above is natural. Humans were meant to act that way, it's just life.

It's not life. We are the only species capable of such horrendous genocide of all earth's animals, but we're also the only species capable of acting collectively to improve the Earth. We're capable of change.


First step is awareness. Watch the video I posted.

reply to post by 11:11


Ignorance? I specifically noted that MAN is capable of stupidity. However, I don't condone this, "animals are better than humans" mentality. It is retarded.

I don't think they should be abused because I don't believe anything should be knowingly abused. But I do not give any special treatment to animals until they show their worth.

There is such a thing as an animal that makes stupid decisions.

This notion that every animal is the beautiful, can-do-no-wrong, essence of all things right and good. It is ridiculous.

-----

The only reason humans are allegedly WORSE than animals is because humans can do what ANIMALS do on a LARGER scale. Why? BECAUSE WE GOT FARTHER.

Just as easily as you argue against the "nature" of humanity, which, by the way, I don't believe in; I can argue against your definition of what "natural order" is.

I believe there is no such thing as "human nature", we have the power to define our own nature. We can change, given enough motivation, we can change.

I believe that, assuming all things fall into place accordingly, we will inevitably reach a point where we're more civilized and less primitive in our methods. No more war, no need for slaughter, etc.

Animals, on the other hand, seem to be stuck in their rut. We have that awesome potential. We have the ability to shake the earth and harness the power of the sun. I have the deepest desire for humanity to make positive progress.

-----

I despise that you would fling such insults without fully understanding what I'm getting at. "Exemplifies man's ignorance"? Lol.



Good game.

Originally posted by 11:11
We are natural herbivores.

Wow. That's quite an assertion.

The physiological evidence would seem to suggest that we are omnivores...if not slanted more toward carnivore...look at our teeth, look at our vision system...

Historical evidence would also seem to suggest that, as a species, we have always made our living in large part hunting (or herding) and eating (or trading) animals. We also foraged on plants, and at one point got organized about this eating endevour as well.

Where do you get this idea that we are plant eaters?


[edit on 23-6-2010 by mobiusmale]

If we are products of nature, everything we do is natural. If we are supernatural, we have more rights then animals.

Also, killing plants is pretty bad. If we believe in global warming, then we are killing living things that convert carbon into oxygen. So that means vegetarians are not so environmentally friendly. Oh noes!!

reply to post by DrJay1975


we all come from the same place. the same source. the only difference between animals and humans is that humans have the power to create. humans should use this power and ability with great care and respect.

imagine a day when animals will partake in this game of life WITH us. imagine one day when they see us they will run or swim or fly towards us playfully in joy. not away from us in fear.