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Scientists Confrim That Chimps Go To War Too

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posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 03:22 PM
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A very interesting article.



It's obvious that humans are fundamentally different from other animal species. It's not so easy, though, to identify the traits that make Homo sapiens so special. Scientists realized long ago that other animals make tools, play jokes and even have a sense of justice and altruism — all things we once thought were unique to our species.

Now a paper in the journal Current Biology has added another behavior to the list of what other animals share with us — and this one isn't quite so charming. After years of field observations in Uganda's Kibale National Park, John Mitani of the University of Michigan and several colleagues have concluded that chimps wage war to conquer new territory.
(See pictures of animal attacks on humans.)

"We already knew that chimps kill each other," says Mitani. "We've known this for a long time." What scientists didn't know for sure, at least in cases in which groups of chimps banded together to kill others, was why. One hypothesis, advanced more than a decade ago by anthropologist Richard Wrangham, was the idea of territorial conquest; circumstantial evidence from both Gombe and Mahale national parks in Tanzania bolstered the theory.

In Mahale, for example, male members of one group mysteriously vanished, and another group then expanded into what had been their land — suggestive but not conclusive. In Gombe, an existing group dissolved into civil war, resulting in killings and land takeovers. But it's hard to say what the casus belli was and thus impossible to know if territorial combat was a key motivator.

Mitani, for the first time, has gathered direct evidence of deliberate warfare. From 1999 to 2008, he and his colleagues observed 18 chimp-on-chimp killings, 13 of which took place in the homeland of a single neighboring group. Then last year, says Mitani, "all of a sudden [the aggressors] made this big land grab," moving into the territory where the 13 victims had lived. "It isn't rocket science," he says. "We put two and two together and got four."
(Watch TIME's video "Chimps and People: Dangerous Bedfellows.")

What's especially chilling about the observation is that the murder rate appears to be so high. The anthropologists couldn't be certain of how big a band the victims belonged to because, unlike the aggressors, they weren't used to a human presence and thus couldn't be accurately counted. But even a conservative estimate suggests that the death rate is significantly higher than you would see in war between human hunter-gatherer groups.
(Comment on this story.)

Mitani isn't oblivious to the lesson some people might draw from the study. "Invariably, some will take this as evidence that the roots of aggression run very deep," he says, and therefore conclude that war is our evolutionary destiny. "Even if that were true," says Mitani, "we operate by a moral code that chimps don't have."
(See the top 10 scientific discoveries of 2009.)

Besides, he points out, the Pan troglodytes chimps he studies are one of two subspecies. The other is called Pan paniscus, also known as bonobos, and, says Mitani, "the latter, as far as we know, aren't nearly as aggressive with respect to intergroup relations. Yet they're equally close to us." That means that if we're wired for warfare, we're wired for peace too. Ultimately, the route we choose is still up to us.


Source

So what are your thoughts ATS?

Not so different are we?

~Keeper




posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 03:25 PM
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Not a comment on your thread, per se, but this is OLD news. The MSM is very behind the times if this is considered "new." Ive known about chimp warfare for over 20 years, so long ago I dont even remember the source anymore.

As for your thread, Im glad you made it if people didnt realize this. Anything that helps educate the masses of naked chimpanzees is a good thing. Maybe if we realize how "not special" our behaviors are, we will be motivated to evolve out of them more quickly.

[edit on 22-6-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Not a comment on your thread, per se, but this is OLD news. The MSM is very behind the times if this is considered "new."

As for your thread, Im glad you made it if people didnt realize this. Anything that helps educate the masses of naked chimpanzees is a good thing.



I guess the report came out in 2008. Didn't think TIME was so slow lol.

In any case it's fascinating to see these animals display the same sort of agression and tactics in regards to land grabs.

Then again, most animals are somewhat territorial and this is no different.

~Keeper



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 03:33 PM
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Can't say I'm surprised... Once I witnessed GWB go to war in Iraq, I suspected something like this.



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 03:37 PM
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They cannot be worse than the anglo american empire, that wants to kill and torture for no reason.

Do chimps, kill and torture for no reason, like the anglo american empire?

I doubt it?



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 03:41 PM
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It only shows that humans are not that much elevated from being animals.



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by andy1033
 



Andy, get yourself a good book on primate behavior and you will realize that what the "anglo american" empire is doing is nothing out of the ordinary among most primates. The only thing we have that is different is our technology. Even our morals are not unique in the animal kingdom.

And, get yourself some good history books too while you are at it so you can educate yourself out of the fallacy that this is an "anglo american" issues among humans. "Anglo Americans" arent doing anything different than any other humans have done from as far back as we have records. If you are looking for that peaceful tribe of blue people living in harmony with the Earth you need to go rent Avatar again. Thats the only place you will find them.

[edit on 22-6-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


I have never seen avatar, lol.

Do you not think i know about humans are not the only animal with any sort of higher function behaviors?



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 04:03 PM
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The anthropologists couldn't be certain of how big a band the victims belonged to because, unlike the aggressors, they weren't used to a human presence and thus couldn't be accurately counted.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I find that statement highly interesting.. the aggresive apes are used to a human presence, while the victems were not..

could this be a case of monkey see monkey do


~meathead



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 04:07 PM
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That has much to do with the fact that Chimps are our closest living relatives and upon comparing our DNA ,we are 96% similar and related to one another.


"Darwin wasn't just provocative in saying that we descend from the apes—he didn't go far enough," said Frans de Waal, a primate scientist at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia. "We are apes in every way, from our long arms and tailless bodies to our habits and temperament."





news.nationalgeographic.com...



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by andy1033
 


You miss my point. Which is, our behaviors are only "higher functioning" in our own minds for the most part. Yes, our technology is glorious, top shelf, but the primates creating and using that technology are really pretty damned average in the animal kingdom as far as morals and intelligence are concerned. (Where intelligence means you can actively and consciously choose your own behaviors rather than doing what you have been programmed by God or nature to do.

And the Avatar comment was in regard to your "anglo American" line of tosh. Dont make it about race or nationality, because it isnt. Passing the buck or pointing fingers at others doing the same thing you or your people have done, are doing, or will do, is just a tired old game. Human beings in general are nasty little animals. Violent against those not in "our" tribe, and often not even so nice to those in our own tribe either.

Its not an anglo American problem. Its a human problem. And the only thing worse than a nasty little human primate acting like a savage is a nasty little human primate acting like a savage and pretending that its all the other nasty little human primates that do that. Creating an "out group" to justify your hatred IS a nasty little human primate game, dont you see that? Prolly not. The irony is utterly lost on most.



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 07:07 PM
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Originally posted by Dumbass
It only shows that humans are not that much elevated from being animals.


Nope - it shows a Bush is almost as evolved as a chimp.



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


reply to post by Amagnon
 


Hi!

Welcome to the year 2010.

I am sorry to inform you that George W. Bush is no longer our president. Our new president is Barrack H. Obama.

Do not worry, though . . . as he is continuing the Bush legacy, so feel free to bash him all you want!

Just a quick pointer, though, since you are new here in 2010 . . . the Bush bashing is not considered cool anymore. He has been out of office long enough for the new president to control his own destiny. In fact, it is quite ridiculous and makes you look like an imbecile that is stuck in the past . . .

oh . . . wait



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 07:23 PM
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So the Anunnaki not only gave us the defects of the chimps or homo erectus, but also gave us the defect of going to war. Man, did they ever so screw us.



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