The Last Conspiracy

Originally posted by Novise


Edit: and this day and age if you put something out on the internet, there is no way the fundamentalists are going to be able to censor or delete it, once it's out the bag. The argument of protection doesn't hold water in modern times where it would be much more survivable once X amount of people know about it, and have it on their computer, or have copies in their own home.

[edit on 23-6-2010 by Novise]

I would challenge that with the simple notion of "consensus reality".

If you control the consensus reality, you control the effective reality. Put whatever you want on the internet. The ones who don't like it will then spend untold amounts of money trying to either prove that your claims are false, or that you are a crank.

But things such as "free energy" are seen as a national security issue. They can (and will) shut that down no matter where on the web it is. Even if it means killing the feed to the server.

Two things you should never underestimate:

- the stupidity and naivete of your average human

- the lengths our handlers will go to keep us under their thumb

brilliant post. took some time but well worth it. thank you for waking my brain up today.

That was very thought provoking. One thing I learned about secrets is that it is also a tool of predators and abusers. These people will try to ensnare and isolate people within a secret or secret society...then the abuse begins.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


That was a great read and very well put.

One thing I must say is that, you should try putting your realisation into practice if you have not already done so.

People in so called power places do not like it when you do not react to them in accordance with the mannerisms you have just described.

It completely turns the tables if you do not react, if you choose it.

The main thing ive realised in my life is that there really is no "table" if that makes sense.



Im in agreement with everything you have said in this thread, the only thing a person can honestly be is themselves, many have not found that yet. Until they do, this type of unneccesary behaviour will never end.

I bet the term, power to the people just changed from your perspective?

I and some other posters are obviously engaging in the exact same behaviour (in the thread) you just spoke about, the difference is, I choose too and when not too. I cant speak for anyone else of course but myself.

Its the true choices that really matter.

Cheers!



Even better way to put it...



Sorry about linking the matrix there, again, your posts in this thread remind me of some of the points in the movie itself. If you do not know yourself, you are at the complete mercy of another.



[edit on 23-6-2010 by XXXN3O]

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Wow!

Pretty much the same wavelength I've been on, but you've managed to so eloquently capsulize it...

The bit about 'The Velvet Rope' parable struck me especially, since it's reminiscent of a particularly funny episode of the TV show Frasier.




"Door Jam".

Here's Act one....it ends with the discovery of the mysterious, yet unattainable "Gold Door" -- signifying the level above the mere 'Silver' that is first attained. Entry to the 'Gold Level' must be achieved, at ANY cost...in Act two, perhaps??

As usual Schrödinger’s Dog an outstanding and very well presented look into the psychology of the human mind and what drives the individual to the crazy things that they do.

Information is such a critical aspect when it comes to making quality decisions.

Know too little about a set situation and the circumstances and you are bound to make a bad decision in choosing how to respond.

There is no denying the strength of information or the fact that some people do feel there is a superior edge in having information that they then withhold and do not share, feeling this will lead them to make much better decisions than the next person, and that they covet and relish that perceived edge.

While the person who hordes and covets secret information often feels they are well served to do that, because of the perceived dysfunctions of who they are withholding the information from, what does that in fact say about their own dysfunctional thinking, in their belief that they will either fail to convince others of the information’s importance or be at a disadvantage because they have created an equal playing field amongst all by sharing it.

Great post, starred and flagged.


[edit on 25/6/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

So is the realization of this very valid psychological condition going to result in the elimination of the english term "proprietary"?

Ego defines "Need To Know Basis"...and we can't have that, can we...

reply to post by MemoryShock


Maybe a person has every right to keep information they have secret or proprietary, but then there is also freedom of speech, so others can point out the absurdity.

The OP was talking about VIP areas and occult knowledge. If it's a matter of security to one's own livelihood, then sure keep a secret. But there are plenty of times where secrets are kept just to prop up some sort of game of one-up-manship.

Then to play that game with the masses who simply don't care what you know, sort of becomes a game you can't lose. But in effect, all that ends up happening is the stuff gets hidden from other truth-seekers. Not the masses, not the fundamentalists (who are too scared anyway to read anything not trademarked/approved by their own denomination, or sect)

reply to post by Novise

In a very indirect way..I was agreeing with the opening post...

Social Groupings tend to become "proprietary" in the sense that anyone not affiliated tends to become of a "lesser stature"...even if the distinction is subtle.

This inhibits social interaction and forces conventional conflict through the delineation of social viability...

Thank you.

Dog, it strikes as being odd that moving out of the ego is a recent change for you . For me your writing sounds like you have been free from your ego for eons. It sounds like you are being hyper-critical of yourself IMHO at certain parts in this thread. S&F though.

I was inducted into a secret socitey fraternity when I was a young man back in quasi-seminary school.

You are right about why people join those ridiculous things. I changed back in my early twenties. I've not had anything to do with that secrets society fraternity snip since then.


Dog, this was brilliant in a non-ass kissing way. You made my head spin

edit for spelling

[edit on 17-7-2010 by dragonsmusic]

Having been a member of more than one secret society and also privy to "upper levels" of various organizations, cults and groups I can 1. confirm that you are correct that its all about self-importance and egoic desperation and 2. assure you that all "secrets" are articial constructs, none of them necessary for living, none of them things you couldnt find out with a little research of your own.

Both those hiding secrets and those running after secrets are feeding off each other in some game where information is thought of as important or revealing. But, as you have already hinted at, it is not information that is important, its energy.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
But, as you have already hinted at, it is not information that is important, its energy.

It's interesting ... what is energy the mind substitutes with the concept and word 'power.' For the mind can trade within such terms whereas it has no or little foothold on energy ... other that the energetic consequences of being trapped in power games that is.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


I agree with your premise.

I believe that originally "secret societies" were formed by shamans, mystics, etc., not to keep others out, but out of recognition that the things they experienced were not conveyable via language.

They did not want to keep these "secrets" from anyone, far from it. More than anything in the world those privy to the things unspeakable want to share them. It has always been so. But they were wise enough to see that attempting to led many farther from the truth than saying nothing.

Some where along the line someone figured out that you didnt have to have the experience, or a "truth" that was beneficial to people to gain power. All you had to do was pretend to have something everyone needed, and pretend to guard it jealously. And then begin taking in payments from those who wanted to know it. And like you said, it doesnt matter if they are jealously guarding an empty box. It doesnt even matter if someone sees the box is empty, they can just do the "emperors new clothes" trick (pretend something is there and say that only the ignorant cant see it, but of course you can, right?) and regain control of the situation.

I have been thinking around this issue too. THAT this is the case is not a problem for me. Daniel Quinn brings up not exactly this point, (he isnt concerned with secrets) but a very similar point in Ishmael when he discusses how we ended up in such a hierarchical world. (And in Beyond Civilization he explores possible paths out of this hierarchical or "secrets" society. It really, to me, matters little what they are using as leverage to maintain the hierarchy, but secrets certainly are one way power is maintained, but the secrets are just a means to an end. Getting, and maintaining power over the majority and persuading them to do your bidding, and support you to boot.

I am more concerned with, how do we get out of this at this point? Is it even possible?

Plato created a very good system to prevent this from happening. And I am convinced it would be workable. Today, with our technology, more than ever. But how could you ever get people to leave this glorious, entertaining, abject failure of a way of life that we have now?

Like Plato said back then, to the masses who had never known anything other than the circus we call society, the alternative would look like it was horrible. Boring. Fit for pigs. (his analogy) It doesnt matter that our glorious entertaining circus makes very few people really happy and satisfied. That so many spend much of their time on some sort of drug or distraction to forget their unhappiness. The trinkets and glass beads of our society look so much more shiny and pretty than the society that would actually make people feel fulfilled and content, and allow them to be what they are meant to be.

Thats what bothers me. All that you have said is right on target. But how do we move from that to something more humane when the "victims" of the conspiracy are completely unwilling to let it go?

Plato surmised that the only way might be perhaps if some tragedy occurred that killed off most of the people, and some philosopher, (real philosopher not some idiot who memorizes terms like "existential" to impress others) took the surviving children out and raised them in the new Republic.

I tend to think he is right. It annoys me. I wish for once he were wrong, and there was hope for the current adults, but as much as I hate to admit it, I think he is right. You cannot make non-seers see. You cannot make non-reasoners reason. And once beliefs have been set in the hearts of non-reasoners, they are almost impossible to change. Reason cannot touch belief unless the believer him/herself is willing to do the reasoning. Just tossing it at them is pointless.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
For the most part I cannot assign any fault to those who will take advantage of others' egos to their own ends for those who make themselves available in this way deserve nothing more, in fact they all but beg to be fed and manipulated in this fashion.

Upon my second reading, and some consideration, I would have to say that in this sentence lies the main area of dispute I have with this line of thinking.

To say the desire to be on the "in" side of the velvet rope is mere egotism really overlooks the physical reality of being human. I do understand what you mean from a spiritual point of view, and I dont disagree. But we are also physical beings.

For most of human history, to be on the wrong side of that velvet rope meant more than not getting into a nightclub. It could mean extinction for you. Wanting to be accepted into the ranks of the powerful, the influential, etc., for primates, (particularly primate males) is no mystery. If you did not make it on that side of the rope, you likely did not leave descendants.

The people on the "in" side of that velvet rope have better immune systems, because they have more control over their lives. They eat better. They get better health care. Its not just an ego game. Power, privilege and wealth, are things humans want because evolution has shaped us to want them. Look at any good study of other primates, (de Waal does great ones) and you will easily see why we fall so easily for the promise of being "made men" when others offer to elevate us, or let us on the good side of that velvet rope.

I dont know any human who genuinely does not care what other think about them, I know very few who simply care less what others think about them than they care about some other thing. (The truth perhaps, or their art, or whatever)

Long before we used cars, money and gold, clothing etc., to signify our status, or our value to the tribe (upon which we and everyone depended for our very life, a lone social primate is a dead one) we used the esteem others held us in as that marker of our value. In the "Iliad" you hear it with all the concern shown for honor, etc. here on ATS you see it with all the flag hunting, for that blue bar. Or the pursuit of stars or applause, or being in an in group on some chat thingie, or whatever.

Its not just all "foolish ego." Its part and parcel of our humanity that we want to belong to a group, a tribe, and our society has warped that idea into something that can, as you aptly point out, look pretty awful.

I have a lot more compassion for the secret keepers and the secret wanters, however. Or the power havers and the power wanters. We are bred to want to be "in." Its just too bad we deviated from "esteem" "nobility" and "honor" as the thing to want to have, the thing that made you "in." Those benefited the whole group. "Fame" and "wealth" and "secrets" do not.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
Secrets Societies aren't created to keep secrets, secrets are created to justify the existence of secrets societies.

Genius, absolute genius. A simple sentence, but I think that it captures an awful lot of truth.

I have always been struck by the unlikelihood of true conspiracies, in that one human truism is that we all like to blab. Makes us feel superior, for some reason. Whether you tell your wife, your bartender, or some random guy, we jabber about things we probably shouldn't all the time. That makes secrets very hard to keep.

In this case, though, the point of the secret is to NOT keep it secret, and that nicely answers my objection.

S & F for you!

[edit on 25-8-2010 by adjensen]

Best way to describe this.....think of is an archer and a target, this arrow... well ...dug into the ground a foot from the bow, BUT, the positive is there was an archer and also was willing to try and was firing at A, target.

I mean no negativity, ...keep seeking though and when the truth is realized and it shall be soon, it will show how blinded we have been...


[edit on 27-8-2010 by Rollo]

[edit on 27-8-2010 by Rollo]

I have nothing to add but an appreciation of what you've stated in the first two posts and a bump for others to also view this thread.

Elegantly stated and in line with my views (for the best part) this should be mandatory reading here at ATS.

-m0r

Now, will many actually listen? Seems doubtful. That's merely experience-- praise the word; beat the turd.

My addition at this point shall be expressed only as parable.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Great thread! I once read something similar except condensed into a sentence that went
something like this......." I wonder what people would see if they looked into a mirror that
showed them their ego's instead of their reflection "