A Christian perspective.

Anyways...Getting back to your most important question....lol...sif we all didn't sidetrack

Yes. From all the information i have taken in throughout my entire life, I have to say Yes indeed there are spiritual beings that do not have our interests at heart. Also. Thre are spiritual beings who do have our interests at heart. So it's not that much different than in real life. Some people hurt us, some are as friendly, helpful as can be.

Yin.
Yang.
Spice
d00dz

Good question - thanks. Pornography is the misuse of human sexuality and physical appearance for self gratification or profit.

self gratification is a bit broad of a term for me to be able to agree or disagree
with I can however agree with the "profit " aspect.

sexuality however, historically means much different things to different peoples.
before , during, and since the time that the Nasorean walked the earth the
Sacred Marraige has been a part of many beliefs.

I woudl far rather disregard the beliefs of others than dishonour God by failing to distinguish between Him and false deities.

ust because you choose
to believe in the Sumerian God of War and Thunder does not necessarily
make you (or your fellow believers) right. Nor does it give you the right
to belittle others beliefs simply because you do not believe as they do.

Jesus Christ as their personal Lord

there are many both now and at the time who do not believe that Jesus was
a diety. virtually all do believe him to have been a great teacher,prophet,,magician( which was the charge he was arrested for), and
healer.

there is also a preponderance of evidence to indicate that he was married
according to custom and/or ritually. there is also a great probability that
he was the High Priest of an Isian-Osirian" church".


as far as Spirits go we have a problem as i am of a tradition that believes
all things , all creations of He who watches over us all have a spirit. so
to continue that discussion you would need to be a bit more specific as to
what "spirits " you are interested in talking about.



BB

ust because you choose
to believe in the Sumerian God of War and Thunder does not necessarily
make you (or your fellow believers) right. Nor does it give you the right
to belittle others beliefs simply because you do not believe as they do.

THANK YOU! This is why I was getting angry...*bows*

Originally posted by illimey
[The ultimate question is:

Why? Why are we all as individuals such a mess of good and evil? It is utterly impossible (surely) to believe in a divine Creator that created us this way. That would be cruelty beyond belief. So God created us perfect, and the perfect became imperfect. Can we re-attain that perfection through our own efforts? Is it possible for the imperfect to make itself perfect? Certainly not by swearing on any particular book! Seems to me that we are all in need of a perfect example to hold onto and commit our lives to....

[edit on 6/14/2004 by illimey]

Once again just my opnion:

Ok imagine a father that has two children. One child is given whatever it wants the other has to work for what it gets. Each is given $100 dollars. Which one will appreciate the money more? It is kinda like I said before. How would you know what Good was if you never experienced evil and vice versa. That is why a person needs to find a balance.

I think sumerians/egyptians were under the influence of alot of things when they made their prophecies or beliefs. Especially psylocybin. Anyone that has a brain flooded with psylocybin could make a prophecy, much less write something interesting. I dont believe there are God's, only one Architect.

Congress has been getting very satanic lately, I mean heck theyre still debating whether or not they are going to keep the ''in god we trust'' and ''one nation under god'' saying. Whats with all athiesm? I call this hate, and fear, of many materialistic people. Who wont accept the fact that we are here. For a reason.

[edit on 16-6-2004 by topsecretombomb]

So is the absence of God..Satan, or just nothing at all...

Originally posted by Yngwie
So is the absence of God..Satan, or just nothing at all...

Yea in a way. This is my opinion once again I'm not saying that this is truth. I think that Satan is a reflection of what humankind can become when you stray away from God. If you take the bible literally you think that he is a actual being with powers to corrupt good men. But if you ever notice, "Satan" never has power of his own until "men" let him have power. Then his power is limited to "hell" (which could be considered a lower lever of the astral) and earth.

As far as the "heavens" are concerned he is stuck just like us. The devil, Satan, or whatever you want to call is a representation of what mankind can become when he worships things in the material world. You become consumed and actually are in hell while you are on earth. You may continue this cycle until you learn that the material world is just that material. It's can't give you inner peace or make you happy. You might think that you�re "happy" but if for a moment but we have seen that this happiness is just an illusion.

I think that the more some one strays away from �God� like qualities. The more they get stuck in this hell we call earth and in essence lose God more and more. But they can always come back they just have to choose to whether in this life or the next.

Originally posted by Yngwie

ust because you choose
to believe in the Sumerian God of War and Thunder does not necessarily
make you (or your fellow believers) right. Nor does it give you the right
to belittle others beliefs simply because you do not believe as they do.

THANK YOU! This is why I was getting angry...*bows*

I have 2 questions. Are you saying the sumerian god of war and thunder is the God of the Bible? 2nd question I've tried to just get a part of a quote into a reply and it doesn't work so I wind moving their whole reply. How do you get a portion of a quote to move into your reply?

Originally posted by DaTruth

Originally posted by illimey
[The ultimate question is:

Why? Why are we all as individuals such a mess of good and evil? It is utterly impossible (surely) to believe in a divine Creator that created us this way. That would be cruelty beyond belief. So God created us perfect, and the perfect became imperfect. Can we re-attain that perfection through our own efforts? Is it possible for the imperfect to make itself perfect? Certainly not by swearing on any particular book! Seems to me that we are all in need of a perfect example to hold onto and commit our lives to....

[edit on 6/14/2004 by illimey]

Once again just my opnion:

Ok imagine a father that has two children. One child is given whatever it wants the other has to work for what it gets. Each is given $100 dollars. Which one will appreciate the money more? It is kinda like I said before. How would you know what Good was if you never experienced evil and vice versa. That is why a person needs to find a balance.

You said a mouthful in this post. I have a response to each segment.
The child who worked for the money is going to get extremely peeved at his sibling and a whale of hatred is going to develope between them.
2nd
How would you know good and evil if you never experienced them. That was satan's lie. he knew what their disobedience would bring. When Adam and Eve fell they didn't know the difference between good and evil. now what happened after the fall was they and us do good and evil. Now I hope I word this like I mean it. God knows everything. He knew before He made Adam and Eve that they were going to disobey and put mankind into this state. Before they fell they didn't have any idea what evil was. After the fall mankind does good and evil. God tells us in the Bible that He wants us to be like Him. Does that mean we are going to be a "God" someday? No, theres only one God. But we can be like Him. We can love no matter what, we can become patient, we can learn to love to put others first, etc. And as strange as this sounds christians will eventually be better of than Adam and Eve would have been had they never sinned. God without ever experiencing it knew what evil does to ourselves and others and His universe, mankind didn't. So when you said how could you know the difference between good and evil unless you experienced it, you said a mouthful. Now as a christian, I myself see and feel the disgust of my sin and evilness. So I can be "like" God in another way, I can truly say I hate sin and mean it.

I have 2 questions. Are you saying the sumerian god of war and thunder is the God of the Bible? 2nd question I've tried to just get a part of a quote into a reply and it doesn't work so I wind moving their whole reply. How do you get a portion of a quote to move into your reply?

1) No I am saying to respect everyone's beliefs

[edit on 16-6-2004 by Yngwie]

So by respect you are saying I need to leave open the possibility that anothers belief about God could be the right one?

So by respect you are saying I need to leave open the possibility that anothers belief about God could be the right one?

Well, that would be nice, but you probably won't do that. More importantly, you shouldn't flaunt your beliefs as if they are true, and everything that comes from you is correct. That is what I mean. Respect what others say even if you think they are wrong...by respecting you don't go shouting that you are right.

Are you saying the sumerian god of war and thunder is the God of the Bible?

yep that is exactly what i was saying. Abraham went to Palestine from Sumer
taking with him " the God of his fathers."


you need not believe in anothers beliefs. you need only accept that they
have the same right to their beliefs as you do to yours, no more, on less.
no one has the right to disrespect anothers beliefs simply because they are different. nor does anyone have the right to push their beliefs on another
even if they do believe they are right and the rest of mankind is wrong.

(stepping down from my soapbox now)

try C&P for part of a quote.

[edit on 16-6-2004 by stalkingwolf]

Perhaps I did not look hard enough, but I did not find a link to the word of God at www.espministries.com... . I did find offers to buy the word of Ben Alexander, but that did not seem quite as valuable as the word of God.

The www.biblegateway.com... provides a nice search engine that lets you look up bible passages in a variety of bibles. Of course this creates another problem, which bible is the word of God? Is God going to be unhappy if you practice the passages in the wrong bible? Perhaps someone can offer some advice on which is the right bible.
.

Originally posted by df1
Perhaps I did not look hard enough, but I did not find a link to the word of God at www.espministries.com... . I did find offers to buy the word of Ben Alexander, but that did not seem quite as valuable as the word of God.

The www.biblegateway.com... provides a nice search engine that lets you look up bible passages in a variety of bibles. Of course this creates another problem, which bible is the word of God? Is God going to be unhappy if you practice the passages in the wrong bible? Perhaps someone can offer some advice on which is the right bible.
.

Excellent point! I think I'm about to get myself into more trouble now...

Firstly, I have only given www.espministries.com... a very brief glance myself. I found it, and figured it would make a good opener for a healthhy debate! Seems I was right. My point is, and I perhaps should have made it earlier, that I am certainly not suggesting that everything said on this website is to be trusted. In order to make that sort of claim, I would have to measure every word on it by the one written source that CAN be trusted 100%...

The Bible.



Which one?

Well...this is how I see the infamous Bible version controversy:

God is the inspiration behind the Bible, and as such He can be 100% trusted to ensure that His words are not misrepresented BY THOSE WHO ARE COMPLETELY DEDICATED TO HIM.

Sadly, I am sure that there are versions of the Bible available that were compiled by individuals whose OWN faith was not where it should have been.

My choice is to go for the KJV. Firstly, I firmly believe that this version was indeed the work of lives dedicated to God - King James himself was very vocal in his faith and certainly had the authority to ensure that the version bearing his name was prepared by dedicated people. Also - I love the language! But I do understand that the language is very different to modern English and as such could be misleading.

My ultimate answer to your question, though, is something like this:

Anyone who is honestly and urgently seeking the truth without preconceived expectations and issues will find it IN ANY VERSION of the Bible. God can absolutely cut through any mistakes - intentional or otherwise - in any version of His word.

Again, we are dealing with God here. One of the three ways in which God has revealed himself to us is as Spirit. He is always with us and has promised that those who seek Him, will find Him.

The flipside to that truth is that those who enter the spirit world without the desire to seek God - and in many cases with a definite desire to in some manner DENY/DEFY God - will likely find an infinitely darker side of spirit.

From my very brief look at www.espministries.com... I see the genuine concerns of someone who indeed entered the spirit world and found darkness before eventually seeking the truth. He is obviously passionate about his ministry, and like all of humanity is never going to be perfectly able to communicate his understanding to others.

I don't, for instance, believe that every child (or adult, for that matter) who enjoys Harry Potter is going to get caught up in 'black magic'.

I don't believe that everyone who goes to a medium to attempt to speak to dead relatives is selling their soul to the devil.

But I certainly DO believe that the spirit world is a dangerous place for the unwary. And I believe that the entire range of paranormal/psychic/esp/spiritualist/occultist activities practiced by individuals today are all firmly rooted in demonic powers. The ONLY safe approach to the spirit world is through the power that Christians have via the name of Jesus. At the sound of a command given in that name spoken by a follower of Christ, demons have no choice but to turn and flee.

Told you I was going to be getting myself into trouble!

So, that is my Christian perspective on the paranormal.

I will spend some time when I have some and go over all posts on this thread so that I can answer any questions I haven't addressed yet. Feel free to ask more as well!

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
Congress has been getting very satanic lately, I mean heck theyre still debating whether or not they are going to keep the ''in god we trust'' and ''one nation under god'' saying. Whats with all athiesm? I call this hate, and fear, of many materialistic people. Who wont accept the fact that we are here. For a reason.

[edit on 16-6-2004 by topsecretombomb]

Satanic? If only

Society is changing for the better. Gone are the days of simpletons believing the sun revolving around the earth and the earth being flat. The people of today have access to a wealth of information, some of which shreds the bible's credability completely. Besides, forcing people to utter a creed that is only relivent to one religion is a waste of time, not to mention very offensive to anyone non christian.

If anything instills hate and fear it would be the bible, not athiesm. People are scared into believing for fear of going to a spooky place with lots of fire and pain. Fear isnt something you would want to base your beliefs on imho.

Yes, we are NOT trying to take God out of the world or your homes. We are trying to take him out of the Government, the way it should be.

Originally posted by illimey
...God can absolutely cut through any mistakes - intentional or otherwise - in any version of His word...

...One of the three ways in which God has revealed himself to us is as Spirit. He is always with us and has promised that those who seek Him, will find Him...

King james was a somewhat suspect individual at least from the point of view of the catholics and puritains. It appears that the king was displeased with the word of God, so the he had the bible retranslated in his own image. I am quite certain that catholics and purtains disagree with king james to this day. Yet to hear you tell it, God has it all fixed and the these different beliefs are all A-ok with God. It sure seems to me that someone is being deceived and that someone is going to be punished for following the wrong path. www.britannia.com...

Since which bible one uses does not matter and since the spirit of God comes to those who seek him by whatever means, it would follow that I can use a quija board to seek the spirit of God and I could keep away the evil spirits by calling out the name of jesus. I find this hard to believe, but none-the-less I believe that is what you have implied.

It appears to me that selecting the correct bible must be more than a like for the elegant words. It also seems to me that one must have common denominator defining what is a christian before one can even have a christian perspective. Also I would think the sermon on the mount is a better starting point for this discussion than the gobblins chased in the writings of Ben Alexander.
.

Originally posted by stalkingwolf

Are you saying the sumerian god of war and thunder is the God of the Bible?

yep that is exactly what i was saying. Abraham went to Palestine from Sumer
taking with him " the God of his fathers."
try C&P for part of a quote.

[edit on 16-6-2004 by stalkingwolf]

God told Abram to get away from his father house and his kindred. Meaning to get away from their "gods" also. The God of the Bible selected Abram to reveal himself to. A further evidence of this is when God changed Abram's name to Abraham. God(Elohim, not an alien elohim) took part of His name and placed it in Abraham's name

Originally posted by toolmaker


this are only a few of the reasons people dont believe the Bible as a literal work. It is apparent that people have distorted, hijacked and abused the teachings Jesus left for us. It is why Jesus begs us to search the truth, not to believe any works or teachings without searching first. God knew that people would distort what he taught.

WOW I totally got chills reading that last part. That is so true. There must be more of "us" I am convinced now for certain.

GOD is beyond what any living man can dream of, GOD is more then just one book but exists on so many different levels that are beyond the comprehension of man. Jesus wanted you to know that GOD is Omni-Potent he is the Father and the Creator, He is the Destroyer and giver of life. He is everything, in everything, IS everything.