Each Illegal Immigrant Family Cost Arizona $19,600 per Year

Originally posted by intrepid
OK, what would the cost be to set up a system that would actually work to keep illegals out?

Well, according to Milton Friedman we shouldn't be trying to keep the illegals out. That's not the problem. The problem lies in drawing them here with a guaranteed standard of living that the state picks up the tab on. In his opinion you let them come here and earn money and if they can afford food and housing on their own then it's a win-win. They get more money and the state gets more good labor. If they can't feed and house their own family then they would be forced to move back to where they could. Seasonal workers would move here and then move back when the demand for their services stopped because their income would dry up.

If the system were properly run it would self-regulate itself with no need for intervention. The state government cost for regulation would be $0. It's fact that the government steps in to "assist" that is the whole issue. It sounds cruel but it's basic economics.

You can't include the De Facto cost for running border security to keep out criminal types. That's a Federal expense that happens no matter what.

reply to post by dbates


Makes perfect sense to me BUT I'd wager not a popular option for some.

reply to post by nunya13

So while I say that we need to go after the businesses and you say deport the illegals, how is it that one of us is really any more correct than the other when these are both parts of the problem as you yourself said?

*Emphasis mine.

Actually, I said no such thing. I simply pointed out the inaccuracy of your statement laying all of the responsibility on businesses. I get equally frustrated when anyone places a very large problem on the shoulders of just one area.

Please read my posts before responding to them. I am indeed saying there is more than one problem (you are correct on that) but I *NEVER* once said all of the fault is that of the illegals (by implying this would all be solved by deportation). I don't think you are intentionally misrepresenting my posts but you are definitely misreading them and taking from them what you want.

There are MANY factors in play:

1). The businesses that employ them.
2). The illegals themselves who break the laws or exploit the loopholes in the laws.
3). The government's thumb twiddling inaction to tackle a highly important issue.
4). The people's fault for wanting such low prices (Example: Purchasing that $1 fruit from those picked by illegals instead of the $2 fruit from American workers) etc.

So that is why I said I agree with you (in the sense businesses are to blame) but I then said I'm tired of hearing that is the ONLY reason or the MAIN reason. If I actually had to single out the group I'm most angry with, it would be our government's inaction.

I get upset with the businesses who hire them but realize there are exceptions (Example: When workers use forged documents to get employment therefore it's not always the business' fault).

I get upset with illegals who come here in the first place but there are exceptions (Example: Those who are just trying to have a better life).

I get upset with consumers who passively encourage it by appreciating the retail savings brought by illegal labor but there are exceptions (Example: In this near-depression, I understand people trying to save money any way they know how).

So while the above 'upsets' me, I can understand certain factors. The only one that down right pisses me off is government inaction.

And to summarize, again, I never SAID 'you are 100% wrong.' I only attacked that argument because it doesn't tell the whole story and just tosses the whole severe issue to the responsibility of the businesses when that is a fraction of the reason we are in this mess.

The reason I am hostile to that argument (or any argument blaming 'the people' or 'the illegals' exclusively) is because if we are really going to solve this, we need to take into consideration all factors at play and not point the finger and blame all of the problems on only one area.

It's so popular to scream 'Blame the businesses!' but that is about 25% of our concern, IMO.

reply to post by AshleyD


If you noticed, I did pull back from my "blame the businesses only" argument and stated why I did so. You're right, I'm not trying to misrepresent your argument and I do not need to go back and read your posts. I am not only taking them for what I want because this is how I interpreted them. And perceived misrepresentation is not in any way purposeful and only due to my perception of your comments. I'm sure you can agree that there is a void in understanding when it comes to electronic communication.

ANYWAY, I have a feeling you and I can go around and around about this. I've never had a problem with your civility and candor before and believe, in fact, that you are a great example for others on this site. For some reason, I was taken aback this time.

I suppose we will have to agree to PARTIALLY disagree

Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by Asktheanimals

 

I guess I'm trying to put myself in their shoes. I'm 29 years old. What if my parents were here illegally and I've never even stepped foot outside of this country (which I haven't). You think I should be deported, sent to their home country, and punished for my parents actions?
[edit on 22-6-2010 by nunya13]

Your shoes seem to be in Idaho and that is a thousand miles from the problem.
IMHO the law should be retroactive back to the 1986 am-nasty.
Anchors speak spanish better than they do english and they will be just fine.

reply to post by intrepid


It's been shown in previous times, and now in recent times that all it takes is the initiative.

Arrest 2,000 illegal immigrants and 30,000 start to flee in fear of discovery. Eventually the problem would take care of itself and we could tone back the efforts.

The problem is that they know they can get away with being here illegally without much accountability. Set an example and make it clear what WILL happen upon discovery and the numbers will dwindle on its own.

reply to post by dbates


Ohhh yeh this is gonna get legs, people that don't have a clue but believe every story will jump on this , in the rush to round up all the illegals there gonna shoot themselves in the face doing (not cut off there nose) it.

the repercussions of the witch hunt are already taking there toll on the country, but at least it gives them someone to hate that they can see!!

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Illegal immigrants is one thing, what you MORONS are jumping on .... and I really mean it! ANYONE WHO thinks they are getting welfare without a birth certificate or proper identification is just plain STUPID!!!! it AINT HAPPENING!!!!

Fear mongering and hate is all this BS accomplishes, plain and simple. I WILL PAYPAL ANYONE ON HERE $1000 if you can prove one case of it!! ONE!

Originally posted by svpwizard
ANYONE WHO thinks they are getting welfare without a birth certificate or proper identification is just plain STUPID!!!! it AINT HAPPENING!!!!

Officials Say Woman on Welfare Stole Thousands With Fake ID's

Ms. Simmons received a total of $450,000, making hers possibly the largest individual case of welfare fraud in New York State history. It is also possible, they said, that she committed more fraud that remains undiscovered.

..she admitted that her passport application was false and said that she was actually born in Georgetown, Guyana, in 1952

www.nytimes.com...

You were saying?

Originally posted by svpwizard
I WILL PAYPAL ANYONE ON HERE $1000 if you can prove one case of it!! ONE!

You're the one making baseless claims. I doubt you'll back that statement up either.

[edit on 23-6-2010 by dbates]

reply to post by dbates


Illegal immigration coming from the south of the border is nothing but importing poverty into an already burdened nation where the tax payer is made to carry the burden of the nations debt.

And people think that is not some type of socialism going on in this nation and people still think that government is not run by corporate greed.

Many people that comes into the US from the border are not educated professionals that have nothing in Mexico, they are the poor and that their Mexican government doesn't support like we do here in the US.

In Mexico people with menial skills are jobless and left by their own government to die of hunger, here in America they are seek by those business that wants to override the system and save a buck while the government is very gracious to give away tax payer money so they don't starve.

Wake up America this the reality of illegal immigration, sad, dirty, ugly and unfair for the tax payer in the nation.

reply to post by dbates


Yesterday in our local news here in GA the Federal government just caught a ring of illegals praying on other peoples identities for money the crimes are so spread that now they are going to be charge with terrorist links, this are illegals from Mexico not from oversea.

And the ring span several states.

reply to post by dbates


Nice example but that's and AMERICAN WOMAN ..... we are talking ILLEGALS here.

Illegal immigration cost in Los Angeles County (Yes just one single county) is over $1 billion dollars annually. Nearly half of that is straight-up welfare payments and food stamps.

Annually the cost of illegal immigration to Los Angeles County taxpayers exceeds over $1 billion dollars, which includes $350 million for public safety, $400 million for healthcare, and $500 million in welfare and food stamps allocations.

antonovich.lacounty.gov...

reply to post by dbates


Just as I thought, a bunch of regurgitation from sources with motives. anyway so much for this thread, bunch of hate mongers and witch hunters.

svpwozard is technically correct, and yes I tried searching.

Currently illegal immigrants do not receive much from welfare. What they do receive technically belongs to their legal children.

Although I'm sure there is some that use false ID's to get welfare, that is probably not the norm. (I could probably find statistics that show illegal paper fraud is on par with below poverty line segments of legal US population)

I personally think that most Americans are looking at this the wrong way. All those anchor babies are going to be productive citizens in 18 years or less.

If you want to stop new illegals from coming in now, that's fine. But it would be in the US' best interest, economically, to just grant the current illegals amnesty and turn them into productive citizens now.

The faster they become citizens the faster they start paying their "fair" share for the resources they use.

As for illegals with crime, same thing. The faster they become citizens and get educated, the faster crime rates will drop.

reply to post by ..5..


First off the illegal problem isn't just near the borders. The largest latin community? New Jersey.

Virginia is starting to have major issues as well. Any state with farms or contracting industry is starting to have an illegal problem.

reply to post by peck420


Finally someone actually see's the truth, American born children are AMERICANS, and if you don't like the way its done then change it, which would deport a lot of your parents and half the politicians.

Anyway, welfare is what it is and its given to those needing it, some game the system but I think you will find the ones bankrupting the system on American's receiving it.

just another hate trick to hate the illegals.

reply to post by peck420


No they are not, statistics coming from Spanish sites shows that most illegal immigrant American born children have the highest drop out in schools in the country and that they will end up in the overpopulated jails in the nation that right now are more than half full of immigrants.

We did already a thread on statistics coming from reliable Spanish sites that tells the story of how many immigrants and their children will become not only dependent on the system and welfare but a burden to society.