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Wikileaks & UFO's

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posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 08:27 PM
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When I started reading this, I was going to post some conjecture on a bunch of possible scenarios but most had been covered by the time I finished reading.

I haven’t seen a UFO, but my angle is that ET UFOs are possible, but manmade UFO research craft are more likely and I’m willing to consider combinations such as manmade craft based on recovered ET tech etc, basically I would like to see some truth and have an open mind.

One thing we could all help to do is to create a better environment for disclosure. Common theories for not whistle blowing (ITT and elsewhere) are that people will be ridiculed or lose credibility. Even on these forums most UFOlogists are labelled crackpots.

Imagine if UFOlogy was taken more seriously, perhaps it would be possible for governments to release case files where they had unexplained phenomenon on radar / sighted / chased or even contacted? Perhaps people with better evidence such as photos etc would come forward. Rational disclosure, leading to more disclosure and maybe leading to governments opening up and even revealing real unexplained cases and simply stating “here are the facts, we can’t explain this one”.

Along these same lines perhaps there could even be a real, tax payer funded organisation to explain these phenomenon. Now bear with me here, I’m talking about a small amount of money and the aim being simply to explain uncommon or previously unexplained phenomenon. Maybe something like funding for MUFON or one of those existing orgs to work with volunteers (ATS members?) to analyse the cases.

Now before you say this will never happen, we do have a possible angle, and that is the economic angle of freeing up resources for a better use. Remember Obama criticising ipads and gadgets as a waste of time? Link (www.redmondpie.com...)

Now how much time do people waste on UFO’s and I mean really waste on discussing bogus claims etc. Now if you could simply discuss cases with verified facts, but maybe unresolved explanations wouldn’t that be better? If you could spend your time doing some sort of useful and credible analysis wouldn’t that be more useful? It would also free up the time of those that just want to ramble on about whether a TR3B is made from parts recovered at roswell or from Nazi war machines or slipped back in time through montuak?

Now if you could participate in this analysis yourself and see that it’s transparent would you trust it? What’s the worst that could happen here? I mean some people may call it a waste of taxpayers money, but it would essentially be a community group and more bogus govt funded groups exist. If the govt was worried about them releasing info on current classified projects, well it’s a possibility, but anyone sending evidence to this group would probably just post to youtube etc themselves anyway.

One thought on making UFOlogy more credible would be to separate analysis of unexplained but real sightings, from the common public perception of some sci-fi saucer racing around with little green men in it. To do that you would probably need to re-name the field of research from UFOlogy to something more plain, real and grounded like “near earth observable astronomy” obviously not that but you get what I mean?

Is there something like this already that I don’t know about? When you Google how to help MUFON it takes you to a site where they say you can subscribe.... not really what I’m after.

The analysis I’ve seen on ATS of those recent spiral rocket sightings was more convincing that most of what I can find on the web. BTW keep that up ATS! - sorry for long post.
Edit for grammar


[edit on 24-6-2010 by MonsantoTriffid]




posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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It might be worth to note the original article quoted in the OP goes on to state..



We bet the UFO crowd will go gaga once they hear about this new Wiki thrust. They need something, anything, to keep their delusion alive.



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally posted by MonsantoTriffid

Now how much time do people waste on UFO’s and I mean really waste on discussing bogus claims etc. Now if you could simply discuss cases with verified facts, but maybe unresolved explanations wouldn’t that be better? If you could spend your time doing some sort of useful and credible analysis wouldn’t that be more useful?


Agreed. A lot of time is wasted making bogus claims based on personal belief systems (confirmation bias) as opposed to honest research. Alternatively, an equal amount of time and energy is spend trying to refute the extraordinary claims that hurt UFOlogy.

What you suggest is definitely what a lot of us wish to see... but I personally don't have high hopes that it will ever come to pass.

Thanks for your post mate!

IRM

[edit on 23/6/10 by InfaRedMan]



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 01:14 AM
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everybody think aliens are soooo cool but what happens when we find out that they are talking to the government and they have some sort of deal going on...
how about if we find out they are going to war with us
maybe they want us or even made us for slaves/sex/soldiers/allies/information recovery.
or they might not want anything to do with us at all but rather that they are just watching the world like a ant hill in a glass tank.

we can look at this UFO/Alien thing a whole bunch of different ways..

whether they are good/bad benificial/or not does not change a thing because if they wanted to do anything to us they could. best thing we can do is to try and learn how to improve ourselves to a point where we escape our own gravity without the help of governments or 1,000,000$ space crafts.. you don't see ufo videos or pictures with huge rockets coming out of the ship to propel it do you? obviously we are doing something fundementally wrong if we believe using so many resources is the only option.
plus even if they were to come down and help us out ... nothing good would come of it.
people fight eachother for EVERYTHING, why would aliens want to come down and introduce us and our chaos to the rest of the universe?
what would be the benefit of the government disclosing that they are real?
peace? maybe until we learn how to make a pulse rifle or some other cool tech...
until people are able to co operate and figure out the problems we have on earth I dont think aliens is any of our concern. it will only confuse things further.

like suppose aliens did create humans and all life and they are watching and guiding people through evolution until their society covers a vast spectrum of perceptions of the world.. then they fly around in their vehicles to watch and research us for whatever question they might be trying to answer sending or converting themselves into ethereal beings through some sort of medium being in the highfrequency range so we cant see/feel/or hear them (besides radio disturbance, radar confirmations,RF readings w/ other spectrum analysis, and animals freaking out)

what would be the implications of aliens actually existing?
what would be the implications of life being created by aliens and not god
does the idea that our creator being god cheapen aliens (examplealiens are just evolved being .. we could be them sometime... so we are not special) OR
does the idea that our creator being aliens cheapens god? (exampleif we were to be created by aliens does this mean god has no relevance in life? what is god then?)

or lets go about this another way.. all those resources that the government is procuring.... 12 billion here... couple hundred million there... what if the government is paying aliens in resources for us to live as free slaves? we make all these great products and work very hard so we can buy them and then the government prints out some cash .. buys it from companies and then gives them to aliens... if people were to know this they would freak out and would'nt be inclined to provide for them... or they may revolt against their governement...
maybe if the government doesnt shut up and pay up the aliens will go ahead with their original plan to make all humans slaves and send them to a slave planet to work so the aliens can have it for themselves . ©

OR....
maybe they are just looking for pals... (though this doesnt seems likely)
we are loving beings even though our planet shows no love.. (besides panda mama's!) we have courage and the strength to never give up... atleast most of us.
and when things get boring we know how to have fun, making new stuff, partying, music, arts, dramas, dancing, and all the awesome food!.. we pretty much have everything but not what we really need.

a freakin stable society
food and housing for the whole world.
And
religious, spiritual, sexual orientation, color/race, tolerance... as well as tolerance of others opinions.
etc...



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 01:28 AM
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the point of all those Ideas was this...

earth is not ready for an event to transpire such as aliens being regarded as real by the government...
people are not ready for them to come down and interact with them.
plus people are way to impressionable for transdimentional beings to come down and imply what is right... they might know but most people dont have the slightest idea of the principles required behind their insight...

Aliens dont matter... They are real.. if you want to see them go watch a video on youtube.. or go right to the source and look out at the night sky whenever you can.
look around and see if you can find a UFO

try this for atleast a week.. Im 100% sure that you will see something flying around that look like stars or planes which never blink unless they suddenly disappear.
you might not find one the first night.. or you will see them everyday.. but take a chance and you might be surprised

if you want to believe that those are just man made satelites go ahead.. I wont stop you from suggesting that they are something that you know exist rather then something that seems spawned from someones imagination or in a cheesy movie.
But you should do some investigation before you disregard what you see.

so if you take my advice and look around for them and you see em think about this... What now?



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 05:31 AM
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reply to post by judgedrewdy
 


Hey judgedrewdy,

I'm not trying to be disagreeable, but I think if super powerful alien entities do exist and I mean the kind often imagined - with energy weapons, telekinesis, interstellar travel and so on, then it won’t be a case of us not being ready for them, it would be simply be a case of their will or intentions for us.

If they were to plot against us, surely they could efficiently wipe us out in no time. If they had benevolent intentions they would guide us. If they wanted to integrate us into their galactic society, and this may be the most complicated option, I think they would go about this despite small (relatively) issues like shocks to our economy and internal human power struggles.

To me the unreadiness of humanity for a super powerful ET is a moot point. Simply by being super powerful they would have their way.



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 05:59 AM
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A possibility is that the powers that be have also realised how big wikileaks and secret exposure is becoming and are cracking down on people with the know very strongly. Maybe any that is deemed a possible threat are disposed of.



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by Scope and a Beam
 


To the op.


We made our intentions clear, or should i say crystal clear. No ?



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by InfaRedMan
 


Just curious now, since you have gained the momentum and since we are well aware of who is who, obviously..!, at which point should we interact ? , Given that your post attracted some virtual benefits that have no bearing in real life, although i am interested as to your intentions.



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by InfaRedMan
 


I will play devil's advocate with my own (earlier) post. I present to ATS a serious scientist, not immediately well known to the average amatuer ufologist- Bernard Haisch. He has a PhD in Astronomy and is quite intelligent yet modest IMO.


During my career I have had the responsibility and privilege as an editor of accepting or rejecting somewhere in the neighborhood of a thousand articles in a prestigious astrophysics journal. This does not conclusively prove, but certainly indicates, that I recognize good science when I see it.


I consider him to be one of the more "trustworthy" opinions of the UFO phenomenon. No sensationalism here. Rather, an honest scientist with impeccable credentials, who has developed a sincere interest in UFOs. He describes having interacted with folks (he trusts and has know for many years) who seem to be at the periphery of some undisclosed knowledge.


From such sources, certain possibilities have made it through my credibility filter and now reside -- like Schroedinger's cat -- in kind of an unresolved mental superposition of quantum states having both the eigenvalues "true" and "false" and no operator around to collapse the wave function.


As to keeping the whistleblowers silent, Haisch points to an example many on ATS are probably familiar with- the secret hiring of many private companies during the '40s and '50s to process huge volumes of nuclear weapons material.


Thousands of workers were exposed to dangerous levels of radiation, often hundreds of times stronger than the limits of the time. Dozens of communities were contaminated, their air, ground and water fouled by toxic and radioactive waste. The risks were kept hidden. In some cases, they have remained so."

So began a lengthy expose revealing a major government secret that involved thousands of individuals. It was published in USA Today on September 6, 2000. The truth had been successfully kept secret for 50 years.
Original Source of quote

He goes on to speculate on the subject of "Black" SAPs (special access programs), Fermi's Paradox, why things are kept secret, and other interesting information. While humbly admitting that he may be wrong or have been misled... his own conclusion:


I have the impression that we may be confronting intelligent consciousnesses with vastly more developed abilites to control and shape physical reality. Modern science has painted itself into such a materialist reductionist corner that it could not, at present, deal with that. Having set itself in such opposition to what it disparagingly labels "the supernatural" it would have a very hard time coming to grips with a reality in which the natural and the supernatural are just the red and the violet ends of a vastly rich spectrum of creative potential for consciousness to use.


His website, www.ufoskeptic.org, should be bookmarked on everyone's computers. Hopefully, as he enters the twilight of his mainstream scientific career, he will turn more of his attention to the UFO subject matter.



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by tristar
reply to post by InfaRedMan
 


Just curious now, since you have gained the momentum and since we are well aware of who is who, obviously..!, at which point should we interact ? , Given that your post attracted some virtual benefits that have no bearing in real life, although i am interested as to your intentions.



For a start I don't really understand your cloak and dagger angle here mate. Care to speak to me using plain English instead of semi cryptic verse?

IRM



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by Scramjet76
 


Hey Scramjet76,

Another fantastic post my friend. Thanks for bringing everyone's attention to Bernard Haisch. He appears to be a brilliant and very interesting man! I will take the time to read your links!

Kudos! Star4U

IRM


[edit on 25/6/10 by InfaRedMan]



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by DocEmrick
I would postulate because 99% of the UFO's that are seen are test-aircraft, and that there is no outlandish conspiracy. If aliens do exist and are visiting us, the government just simply is not aware of who they are. They may know they're there, but they can't explain the phenomena.


I'm sure at least SOME of them are test aircraft. That's just a given. However, I doubt that we have aircraft that are capable of some of the feats that have been reported. Darting to and fro, going from 0 MPH to hundreds of miles an hour in a second, moving slowly and soundlessly, etc. . . I really doubt we can do that.

I do agree though that if we're being visited, the government probably is as much in the dark as we are. They were probably pretty concerned back in the 50s and then realized that whatever is going on isn't an immediate threat, so they just moved on.


Although, from my postulation, I guess another question arises...if these black projects do exist, why aren't people disclosing them? Probably because they're so high up, that every body that works on it does not know what it is working on. Regardless, this is a great thread that some of the loonies will try to answer.


Quite right, I'd think. Still, it brings up the question of, if we do in fact have such amazing capabilities, why aren't we using them in wartime? It's a terrible crime to allow our pilots to go up in archaic air craft when we have technology that could save lives.



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by judgedrewdy
 


"they are just watching the world like an ant hill in a glass tank"

That statement is the absolute truth and the only response that pretty much says it all!

Our lives and its meaning - explaining why they are here - is no more important than say just another albino mouse in an extremely old and seasoned lab.



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by arizonascott
reply to post by judgedrewdy
 


"they are just watching the world like an ant hill in a glass tank"

That statement is the absolute truth and the only response that pretty much says it all!


Well... no... It's not the absolute truth! It's pure conjecture! It's all the people within UFOlogy that state they know the truth or have the inside track on the alien agenda that are making it a laughing stock.

The truth is that your just as much in the dark as everyone else. I'm not trying to be rude... just telling you how it is.

The actual topic is Wikileaks & UFOs (Whistleblowers). Can you please stay on topic and keep your conjecture within those parameters.

IRM



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 04:30 PM
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It seems to me that there are many coming forward, just look at the roster from the disclosur project? The problem is the powers that be have done such a great job of making the masses not even care.



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by MrUnkown
It seems to me that there are many coming forward, just look at the roster from the disclosur project? The problem is the powers that be have done such a great job of making the masses not even care.


The fringe elements within UFOlogy have done the best job of making the average citizen dismissive. They single handedly turn UFOlogy into a circus. The PTB haven't had to lift a finger.

IRM



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 12:12 AM
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Peeps

I recently saw an excellent documentary postulating that the vast majority of UFO sightings are "black" aircraft. The changes in shape of the bulk of UFOs over the years would seem to support this. I do not deny that UFOs are here but do not think that there is a govt conspiracy, its just an easy cover for these aircraft.

The B2 was kept under wraps for years. Why? Because people did not want to betray their country. Simple as that.

For the above reasons, I do not believe that there is some wicked agency somewhere. In the field of UFOs they probably don't have a clue, like the rest of us.

Even if 1% of UFO sightings cannot be explained there is something to investigate. Alas I do not think our govts know the answers.



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 07:32 AM
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I apologize for not being able to respond elaborately. I must keep this short and to the point because I am on a tight schedule.

All I can contribute to your discussion, sir, is that I do not believe that all conspiracies can be uncovered by wikileaks. Especially really deep ones that concern the origins of man and true history (perhaps?).

Wikileaks is designed to attack other conspiracies that are easier to digest (and somewhat obvious) such as the killing of innocent Iraqis. Sure we here a lot from our friends and relatives serving in the region, but have we seen a video like that before? Thanks to these guys, we can.

But that's easy to digest. A daytime vid probably still doesn't mean anything at all. We do have that don't we? Not CGI? The Edinburg 2010 vid?

Yeah, nothing matters. Too murky.



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by headb
All I can contribute to your discussion, sir, is that I do not believe that all conspiracies can be uncovered by wikileaks. Especially really deep ones that concern the origins of man and true history (perhaps?).

Wikileaks is designed to attack other conspiracies that are easier to digest (and somewhat obvious) such as the killing of innocent Iraqis.



Quite possibly! They may also be inclined to avoid the ridicule that comes with the territory as it may destroy/deplete their credibility in other areas. Dealing with UFOs/Aliens may be cutting off their nose despite their face.

IRM



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