Wikileaks & UFO's

reply to post by InfaRedMan


imho . . .

1. The PTB [Powers That Be] REALLY ARE FAIRLY GOOD--AT LEAST HAVE BEEN FAIRLY GOOD FOR 6 DECADES at VERY heavy-handidly squashing virtually all leaks of any great threat or significance.

2. They have invested enormous amounts of money in advancing such technologies--particularly FOR THEIR TYRANNICAL CONTROL SCHEMES VIS A VIS GLOBAL GOVERNMENT. THEY ARE NOT ABOUT TO RISK THAT IN ANY SIGNIFICANT WAY--REGARDLESS OF WHO THEY HAVE TO THREATEN OR KILL IN THE PROCESS. Some would say, witness JFK.

3. There HAVE been TONS OF LEAKS. Evidently the level of PROOF required by WIKI-LEAKS has rarely, if ever been approached by leakers in the UFO field. See points 1 & 2 above.

4. The level of proof by the leaks has been sufficient based on EXPERT TESTIMONY equal to that sending murderers to their executions. So, it's not as though there's been totally inadequate proof. It's just not of the nature Wikileaks evidently requires--hard, verifiable documents etc.

5. There have been MORE THAN 3,000 trace landing cases scientifically investigated which prove an 'OTHERLY' origin of such craft and their influences on the environment. That's not exactly the same as proving ET is running around loose from distant planets. It is fairly solid proof that some very strange stuff and technologies are involved. Still, many folks do not respect the 3,000 cases and their very SCIENTIFIC analysis. THAT'S AMAZING STUPIDITY, TO ME. Or, it's such an irrational avoidance of a TYPE I ERROR that those invovled are SUCKING CONSTANTLY AT THE TEAT OF A TYPE II ERROR--MOST IRRATIONAL!

6. Personally, I believe that the critters are either totally all fallen angels or at least mostly so. Or, if they also include citizens of distant planets--the whole kit and kabootal are in league with satan toward setting up of the tyrannical satanic government Biblically prophecied. THEREFORE, I would EXPECT that such goings on would be very well protected until such a time as the UFO craft and their drivers were SCHEDULED TO BE OVERTLY USED TO SCARE global citizens into a world government or COERCE citizens into same with extra-ordinary power, technology demonstrations; claims to be here to save us from ourselves etc.

7. I SUSPECT, SPECULATE that when WWIII springs full force onto the world stage and/or some other series of massive calamities, that THEN the UFO stuff may also spring overtly onto the world stage.

8. UNTIL THEN, I doubt more than small incremental disclosures will surface. It does appear that TPTB HAVE BEEN incrementally preparing the populace for just such an eventuality by conditioning the world's citizens more and more overtly to expect or flow with such revelations without totally freaking out. That in itself is a bit telling, for those paying attention.

reply to post by ocker


Ocker me ol' mate!

Mate to enlighten you some watch the video maybe the puzzlement might seem more factfinding. maybe...not

Now.....

Which video do you mean?

I think you might have a couple of "dodgy" ones there!

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

[edit on 23-6-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]

Originally posted by spikey
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

Your sig graphic tells me all i need to know about your motives in posing this question.

Here we go....

The fact that you could easily have answered your own question regarding whistleblowers and witnesses, but didn't tells me you are actively engaged in disinfo of the UFO topic in general

LOL! Didn't see that ad-hom coming! A sure sign that you have nothing intelligent to add to the discussion or to say about me!

and seek to divide opinion and deliberately ignore the obvious hoards of people, both high profile and otherwise, who have come forward with their experience of the subject to date.

I'm not seeking to divide anything. It's an open discussion. Stop trying to be such a know-it-all. Clearly you know nothing about me!

However... I do thank you for the comic relief!

IRM

[edit on 23/6/10 by InfaRedMan]

reply to post by Scramjet76


Hey Scramjet76. Always an honor to have you participate in one of my threads!
Thank you for an eloquent post my friend!

Originally posted by Scramjet76
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

Bingo IRM! We would expect thousands, yet those who step forward can never fully be vouched for.

-SJ76

I completely agree with this. Although there have been some highly credentialed witnesses come forward, we are still left in the situation where we have no official statements in confirmation of an alien reality.

That's not to say that I don't find any of the witness testimony out there compelling, I do, and as most long term members know - I believe in ET and I have had my own close up encounter with 3 craft. However that does not change what I have written above. I'll re-state it for those calling me a dis-info agent.. lol...

We need an official confirmation for this phenomena to become real in the eyes of the general public.

IRM

[edit on 23/6/10 by InfaRedMan]

Anyone see the movie, 'The Fourth Kind'?

Based on actual case studies, The Fourth Kind uses Dr. Tyler's never-before-seen archival footage alongside dramatic reenactments to present the most disturbing evidence ever documented in this provocative thriller critics are calling "terrifyingly real...The most shocking alien abduction movie to date."

www.thefourthkind.net...

Well, the missing people part was true...


I believe this story CAN be true. I wasn't there when it happened so I can not confirm it. With all the technology and freedom we have in the USA, everyday people can spread a message. This doctor very well may have been sending the world a message, and disguised it as a motion picture.

TPTB assume that us people are ignorant and closed-minded to the truth. And for the Most part, they are right. Movies like this and The Exorcism of Emily Rose are supposedly based on real life experiences, and the people who were there, want the world to know that there is more to this world that the eye can see.

TPTB have worked long and hard to make us all skeptics to EVERYTHING.

We live in a fantasy world that is intertwined with truth and lies.

Originally posted by ghostsoldier
I haven't read this thread in its entirety, but SBS Dateline had a program a month or so ago about WikiLeaks and specifically Assange, after the program there was a live chat with the reporter Mark Davis and Julian Assange on their website

Live Chat with Julian Assange on SBS

I put the question to him about UFO's, and his response was something to the effect of "Nothing definitive..."

So yeah,

Hi Ghost Soldier,

It's interesting that Assange answered with "Nothing Definitive" in relation to the UFO question. I guess that could be considered as a highly subjecting answer. What is definitive to one person is poppycock to another. Ultimately, it still leaves us in a state of limbo really. At least it's a confirmation that he is in possession of some information. What that is, we can only guess!

Thanks for your post mate!

IRM

Originally posted by Netties Hermit
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

Hi InfaRedMan,

I seem to be the only one on this thread that is disturbed by how derogatory that article is towards the UFO community (or as he puts it, "that lonely, usually inept group of investigators".

I cottoned onto that too. Who should UFOlogy blame for this type of perception?

I think Terranaut gave a valid insight into this on the previous page.

IRM

Originally posted by pauldamo
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

i suppose all the UFO whistle blowers think that the disclosure project is the appropriate place for UFO matters,as they can stand up personally to tell their story and i think that they are safer in larger numbers,just a thought.

I don't agree with this personally mate! The Disclosure Project (headed by Greer) has been brought into disrepute. Guilt through association to said clown!

If whistleblowers are smart they will choose to disclose through a reputable source because it will only lend credence to their claims. That's why I believe Wikileaks is the choice avenue for any whistleblowing in relation to UFO's/Aliens. These guys have been building their credibility to a point that they are really perceived as hero's by the general public. Truth merchants if you will.

Thanks for your opinion! Though I may not agree, it's appreciated!

IRM

reply to post by InfaRedMan


Seems to that this is a request for information from a potenttial whistleblower that may know something definite. I don't know what kind of incontravertable proof they would be able to provide but Julian would require it. Julian may have heard of someone "sitting on the fence" and wants him or her to know he is interrested .

reply to post by ocker


Hey Ocker!

Great post on Corso, Mitchell and Cooper (specifically). I do find their stories extremely compelling. However, in the spirit of balanced opinion, there is still a part of me that must pay attention to some of the criticisms of these people. It leaves me in somewhat of a quandary my friend. By no means am I discounting them but on the other hand, I still have what I consider to be reasonable doubt.

A Big Star for your contribution!

IRM

reply to post by Netties Hermit


Its pretty clear that the tone of the article must be agreeable with the operators of that website. Otherwise that page would not have apparently survived for three years with all the attacks upon UFO buffs. Wikileaks has an agenda and UFOs are not a part of it. That's all that needs to be said on this subject.

Hi,

You can bet your bottom dollar that when a leak occurs desperate measures are taken so that they don’t occur again. Actually, it provides a method for fine-tuning, as time goes by the vessel becomes more and more water tight.

I’m sure any one thinking about providing a leak has got to be thinking. Is it worth it? What do I and the “world” have to gain, versus, what do I and my family stand to loose. They (whistleblower) no doubt have seen the outcome of whistle blowers past and present, some which have died in mysterious circumstances and others still alive have become permanent fixtures in the UFO multi-media circuits and community. Maybe many just want normal lives and realize the truth will eventually be reveled.

And just what miraculous document might that be? One with Obama’s signature and perhaps a picture of him shaking hands with ET? Many have already come forth I’m sure they (whistleblower) will have understood by now that no matter how genuine the material they present may be, it will be scrutinized for weeks, eventually years until nothing is left of it, and in most likelihood it will produces no real change.

After the Bob Lazar incident I believe there may be a growing trend in the minds of would be whistle blowers, to stay put. They must have realized by now that no matter how big the leak and astonishing the revelations, we the audience will never be satiated. There’s already so much evidence out there but we keep asking for more and more, and besides, most of us don’t really want to end the mystery, I know that’s true because in reality we already have the answers. More important, the powers that be, will always have the upper hand, they control everything and can make us hate or love whomever they choose.

Perhaps we should change our role from that of being spectators, forever on the verge of almost knowing, to one of acceptance and then take the next step. OK, they’re here, …now what? That is after all, the question we’ll all be asking ourselves the day after disclosure. Why not simply place our selves there, now!

Not for anyone to answer these questions here, but I ask each and every one of you to think deeply. What is it that you really want?….. How will this change your life?….. What will be your new goals, if any, the day after.
By the way, I’m not interested in creating a new thread, this isn’t about more rhetoric, it’s about you, think about it, place your selves there, on that day. And just in case, don’t get me wrong all these forums are important and should continue they inspire and even generate new knowledge, different ways of seeing, perhaps opening our eyes, questioning all things, I’m just saying, from time to time we should stop and question our own motives.

Exsoteric

Good question, but its a bit easier to disclose a massacre than the existence of UFO's. First of all, I dont think its possible to show any evidence that shows they are here, short of a alien body. And there is no way some whistleblower gets away with retrieving and showing a alien body.

Any photograph would be dismissed as a fake, which is why the entire UFO forum here is useless basically, but entertaining nevertheless.

Also, there may be the possibility that aliens would know if someone tried to expose them, and go after that individual. Naturally they are part of trying to not be seen themselves, otherwise there would be nobody stopping them from showing themselves.

There is also the element of ridicule. I dont think its possible for a person to be believed when it comes to aliens. You had the disclosure project with hundreds of witnesses and that turned out largely ignored anyway. What can one guy do then?

Originally posted by InfaRedMan

If whistleblowers are smart they will choose to disclose through a reputable source because it will only lend credence to their claims.

Naah, wont work because anyone can get their reputation smashed in a second. The witnesses in the disclosure project had about as high credibility as you can get. Didnt help at all.



[edit on 23-6-2010 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
I have always said this, and see that others here ponder it as well, and that is maybe there is no evidence, no secret cabal nwo types, no men in black, no real government knowledge being hidden, thus no whistle-blowers to come forward.

I think that is the most likely explanation in this case. I would bet that the governments of the world don't know anymore about this than you or I do. Perhaps that is the hardest explanation to swallow because it flies in the face of what we want to believe.

I'd almost go along with that if in fact there was no evidence. But there is. It's not great. Mostly anecdotal, but applying Occam's Razor would suggest the improbability of every single witness being misled, hoaxing or nuts. And although photo and video evidence is essentially worthless by itself, that still doesn't mean that at least a few of them aren't of a real, weird thing. Adding in the abduction stuff and trace accounts, you've got a good case for their at least being evidence of something. What that something is, is anybody's guess.

And if there is evidence, including evidence that might be of interest to national security, then there is probably somebody or some agency out there looking at it. It may be just a few guys in an office somewhere in Washington and not some huge MJ-12 organization. But somebody.

I also tend to suspect that they don't know any more than we do. Obviously, I could be wrong. After so many years, and after reading so many reports, I lean toward a reality perception/creation or time travel explanation, which is basically saying I don't know much, if anything. If someone has looked at the same evidence I have, I like to think that I'm smart enough and they're smart enough to have come to the same fuzzy non-conclusion.

But when it comes to keeping secrets from your competitors, there's only a couple of secrets you really want to keep. What you know, and what you don't know. So they would be just as interested in and dedicated to keeping their ignorance a secret as they would be their knowledge of "The Truth." It would be hard to tell, then, just what secrets are or aren't being kept.

One thing is for sure, though. Such an atmosphere is ripe for disinformation. Even if somebody did disclose on Wikileaks, their level of verifiable evidence will have to be very high for me to believe them. There have been plenty of such people pop up here on ATS, including the SERPO and CARET Drone stuff, and it's all proven to be bullcrap under closer scrutiny. I would hope that Wikileaks is at least as efficient and effective at weeding out nonsense as we are here. Which would explain why no UFO leaks or disclosure there.

[edit on 23-6-2010 by Blue Shift]

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
Cheers Son of Will.

I will say that although you can compartmentalize the evidence, you cannot compartmentalize the will of others.

In my view it is quite possible that hidden underground bases are filled with people who have never seen the surface - they would be totally mind controlled by TPTB - raised as children in an entirely artificial reality, much like the one we call western civilization - but their world might include a story about the world above, how it is dangerous with no air, and monsters or something.

This has been going on for a very long time - it is possible that even a second generation has been raised underground on pure lies

reply to post by Amagnon


Why does that sound so familier to me?

That's the story line of the movie City of Ember.... or at least a very close resemblance.

I'm sure Wikileaks will get a goverment document related to UFOs. I doubt the documents will prove the existance of alien craft. They will however, show evidence of silly things our goverment spends money on.

Let's inject a bit of basic science (i.e. alien biology and physiology)
here to explain some POSSIBLE or PROBABLE reasons WHY
truly demonstrable proof has not yet been forthcoming.

Imagine you're a "Grey Alien" with a big head which has a cranial
capacity into the many litres, with Quadrillions and Quadrillions
of neurons of a different chemical makeup that allows synapses
to fire MUCH FASTER than ours.

Imagine whole groups of such super-intelligent "Alien Scientists"
doing what OUR OWN lab techs do by using their version of the
"Scientific Method" of repetitive, and diligent investigation of
many if not ALL aspects and variables of both our societal
structure and basic human biology.

Now contemplate these simple questions:

Would those aliens have not already THOUGHT OF the possibility
of whistleblowers and thus modified their "Lab Protocols"
to take into account such personnel who would be open
to being whistleblowers upon alien contact?

Would these aliens also not have "Control Protocols"
or technology to PREVENT or DEAL WITH such leaks when
dealing with governments or disclosure to individuals?

Even IF there was a "Spaceship Crash" or three, they could
have been RUSES designed to provide GRADUAL and CONTROLLED
exposure of alien technologiy and presence to highly specific
groups of Earthlings within private or government groups.

And much like a long-term scientific study, various aspects
would have been thought out and/or simulated MANY TIMES
before and during said study, thus I believe we humans
are the proverbial lab rats in a maze with artificial walls
and little nuggets of informational and/or technological
"Cheese" being put out to appeal to our more base instincts
allowing ourselves to mold our behaviour into what "They"
desire or need.

Since we have the brainpower of a gnat compared to "them",
it is UNLIKELY we could have a hope of ever seeing the TRUTH
behind our existence within the greater scope of the alien
machinations. It is also highly likely that SOME OF US would
be captured and then enhanced biologically or technically so
as to BECOME MORE ABLE to see and understand the greater
truth behind the alien presence. As ambassadors or
go-betweens if you will !!!!

I also believe that there are MANY families of aliens rather
than large concentrated alien civilizations, each doing their OWN
THING on Earth, who are aware of each other's presence
but will tend to stay out of the way of each other or will only
offer mild cooperation with other such alien families.

Each "family" have their OWN PURPOSE which could range
from simple scientific curiosity to active desires to test, control
and shape our society for either glorious or nefarious purposes.

It is likely any alien presence on Earth is more individualistic
in nature, dealing with small or medium-sized groups of humans
less than 100 in size so as to offer better control of the VARIABLES
that might arise out of our own sometimes unpredictable behaviour.

It's easier for a family of aliens to deal with 1 to 100 humans than
it is to deal with thousands or millions...ergo, we have only SMALL
tidbits of information and data leaks getting out because of the
intrinsic compartmentalization that takes place when dealing
with only SMALL groups of people.

It is also VERY LIKELY that there are many sub-levels of
technological abilities and philisophical bents within the many
probable groups of aliens visiting Earth and thus we humans
would need to understand and deal with aliens that range from
local star-group space-faring beings not much more than a
few hundred years ahead of us technologically all the way to
fantastical beings on the level of Gods who can twist time,
space & matter from 10 billion light years away who have
the power to use entire galaxies as fuel for their civilizations.

As each level of being would have a specific desire or capability,
THEIR ACTIONS would reflect mightily on what happens to us
physically and societally as the aliens go about their business.
Some alien groups would cause acute overt effects and other
aliens would cause very subtle, long-term changes to human
societies. The effects while very real, would NOT seem overly
threatening to the GREATER population of Earth simply because
not enough people have been overtly exposed to or even notice
the direct presence or machinations of each group of aliens.

So I feel that unless one of the "Higher Up" groups decide to
change the game and bring us up a few notches technologically
or philisophically, we humans will be stuck in a lab rat maze
NOT of our making until a few of us grow brainy enough
to break out of our technological shell so as to be able to
CONFRONT the lower-level alien groups on THEIR LEVEL!

...or...

we somehow appeal greatly enough to evoke some pity
on our condition with the God-like aliens who would be
ABLE TO overule any of the protestations of other groups
of aliens to bring us into THEIR FOLD technologically,
philisophically and even biologically.

[edit on 2010/6/23 by StargateSG7]

Maybe it's because the people with the extreme level of clearance needed to know about the captured ship also knows the wikileaks is a NSA front. I personally doubt there are many of them that have actually crashed, most of the crashes are likely experimental aircraft, possibley based on a crashed alian ship.