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Wikileaks & UFO's

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posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by DocEmrick
I would postulate because 99% of the UFO's that are seen are test-aircraft, and that there is no outlandish conspiracy. If aliens do exist and are visiting us, the government just simply is not aware of who they are. They may know they're there, but they can't explain the phenomena.

Although, from my postulation, I guess another question arises...if these black projects do exist, why aren't people disclosing them? Probably because they're so high up, that every body that works on it does not know what it is working on. Regardless, this is a great thread that some of the loonies will try to answer.


I would have to assume that due to the strict nature of compartmentalization, the reason no one has come forth to claim these sightings as something they've created, is because they simply, don't know it.

In Area 51, scientists and researchers are compentalized by division. To put it into example. Keep in mind that all these teams are kept separated from eachother at all time, and more than like do not even know eachother's names.:

Development Team (A) creates a nuclear-based engine capable of delivering unmeasurable amount of power.

Development Team (B) creates a unique design body that is capable of abnormal movement but they only know aerodynamics and cannot design an engine for this.

Development Team (C) is advanced in radio/sattelite communications. They are capable of creating technologies that far exceed today's communications with the proper funding and testing.

Development Team (D) is rigorous with lasers. They master in making lasers capable of tasks we only theorize right now. With a little help and funding they create, oh let's say a tractor beam, an invisibility shield (sorry for going sci-fi).

And finally... you have:

Assembly Team - They take all these parts of which they have NO idea where they came from or how they were developed, but are responsible for making them work together and assembling the final craft. Similar to reverse engineering.

------------------------------------

Since all these teams are kept separate, and never know what the devices they make are ever used for, they don't actually know they've made a test craft that is physically alive and being tested. If you've seen interviews with Area 51 former employees, they will always explain to you that there are numerous moments on the job that they are kept in dark hanger, with all the windows closed, while something goes on outside.

My point?

People don't expose that they know what the crafts are, because they don't know that it's their technology up there.




posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 01:03 PM
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What makes UFOlogy such a pain is the simple fact that no answers have been given therefore anything is possible. "Why would aliens come here and crash?" Once again, I don't care how far fetched it sounds, they could be here for ANYTHING. The possibilities are limitless.
As for trying to convince people?? I think that this is one of those things that you just don't believe until you see it with your own eyes. Not even videos will convince people.
I am sure some religious people will want to debate this but "God" and what he stands for on planet Earth, will crumble once the existence of aliens is a fact.
With all that being said, don't for a single second think that this phenomenon is a hoax or a bunch of hogwash. UFO's are real, I have seen them and I believe if everyone just looked UP a little bit more, there would be a lot more sightings.



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by InfaRedMan
So here's the big question. With so much information being leaked from all types of government departments, the military, corporations and scientists, why aren't we seeing any whistle blowers from these so called shadow groups inside our governments and military in regards to UFO's, Aliens and Advanced Propulsion's?


Could it be entirely plausible to entertain the notion that the link between UFO'S/ET and Hu-mans is strengthened by ET itself and that looking at this issue like we do with modern day businesses is indeed where the problem lies.

I wrote a thread once called Do You Know What I Did Yesterday? it goes it to detail about how easy it is to keep the lid on this issue by looking at it from another point of view.

The more I look at life and research and learn, the more I am drawn towards some pretty open minded possibilities. I am almost certain now that ET reside on this planet and work in positions of enormous power. The deeper you look at this particular topic the easier you can see how it can be contained.

Let me ask you this: Do You Know What I Did Yesterday?



[edit on 22-6-2010 by franspeakfree]



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 01:19 PM
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I think the seeming lack of 'whistleblowers' is due to the simple fact that everyone who knows enough to amount for any conspiracy also knows that talking equals to getting killed, or worse. There is always a way to get things done, its just a matter of cost. And these guys have all the money in the world, quite litterally.

You'd be surprised how high you can climb in an organization and still be completely unaware of what actually is planned and done. Need to know basis indeed.

[edit on 6/22/2010 by above]



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 01:25 PM
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Let's Just say for fun aliens are real and are visiting.

Would you really want to know? I know everyone will say "yes" because it's new and exciting at first, but seriously do you really want to know?

Ignorance is bliss. Why make life more confusing than it already is? If I had an alien in my closet I would show nobody, not for fear of ridicule or anything like that. For the simple fact that at this junction in time, the planet is not ready.

I've got bills to pay, a family to take care of and protect, a government running around doing god knows what. Aliens would be the straw that breaks the camels back and right now I need that camel, whether I like it or not.

I'm sure to an extent wikileaks feels the same way.



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 01:30 PM
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Wikileaks could have something earth shaking but be unable to release it because they cannot verify it. Given the difficulty in just getting hold of something good in the first place this is not that unlikely.
reply to post by justwokeup
 


This touches on another issue with the UFO scenario. Belief. I could see something and maybe my family will believe me but there are a lot of people that will just say "hes nutters". My whole block could have a UFO fly over and while we will all "know", everyone outside of us will say we are all "attention seeking nutters". The "x" document could show up and someone will say "fake" and that will be enough to convince many its not true. The level of proof required to convince the majority of the Human race is staggering and to prove to everyone-impossible, heck there are still people who believe the world is flat.



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 01:47 PM
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people mysteriously die when they are concerned with releasing UFO/alien related information ala William Cooper and Phil Schneider...and the info released on wikileaks is nowhere near as sensitive as the UFO issue

[edit on 22-6-2010 by primetime2123]



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by stirling
 


The numbers make sense when you include terrestrial advanced test craft. UFO is not the same as alien!



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by GeechQuestInfo
 


my god, that is not the attitude to have.. you are always gonna have bills, you are always gonna have to provide for your family, and the government is always gonna do god knows what. when is the time? keep the status quo? cuz you're always gonna be paying bills, more as time passess, you're always gonna take care of your family,cuz thats what good people do, and the government is gonna keep doing more and more messed up $h!t ,its gonna be too late some day. if this isnt the straw that breaks the camels back its gonna be something a lot lot worse brother



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by InfaRedMan
 


Everyone please S&F this thread. Great post IRM.




So here's the big question. With so much information being leaked from all types of government departments, the military, corporations and scientists, why aren't we seeing any whistle blowers from these so called shadow groups inside our governments and military in regards to UFO's, Aliens and Advanced Propulsion's?


The simplest answer is because they don't exist. At the very least, all the hoopla is way overblown. While our governments struggle to keep up with social change and the popularity contests demanded by national politics, the (US) Intelligence Community's hierarchical structure has never had these issues. Still, these agencies are comprised of human beings, not Gods.

While this might seem like a sarcastic jab at some conspiracy circles, it is only meant to be a rational reminder. These folks might spend long hours doing a very important job, but they still have personal/religious beliefs that transcend their employment like anyone else on this planet. I suspect the main reason UFOs/Aliens don't get as much attention in these intelligence communities as one might believe, is the exact same reason the subject matter is frowned upon in "everyday society." People don't want to be laughed at and ridiculed. People don't want to be considered mentally unstable... especially if a fat government paycheck, retirement and/or reputation hang in the balance!

Furthermore, not all reports of US intelligence agencies' apparent interest in UFOs means they're tracking down "aliens." In his book On The Trail of Saucer Spies: UFOs and Gov't Surveillance, Nick Redfern documents some "gov't" interest in civilian UFO groups. Yet in many cases, he points out that the gov't agents aren't looking to gather nor surpress information on Aliens/UFOs. In some cases, intelligence agents investigate for much more terrestrial reasons. For example, it's been documented that communist sympathizers will often go looking for recruits in UFO groups because these groups often house paranoid people who are skeptical of their government. The perfect type of individual to recruit for their cause!



Why isn't someone stepping up? Especially now with the popularity, visibility and clout of Wikileaks being stronger than it ever has? We're talking about the biggest secret ever witheld from the human race here, should it be true. The type of secret you would expect thousands of people to be complicit in maintaining over the last 60+ years.


Bingo IRM! We would expect thousands, yet those who step forward can never fully be vouched for. Want some examples? I'll give you a couple:

* Bob Lazar who claimed to have worked on flying saucers in Area 51. Yet his claims of attending MIT and Cal-Tech were investigated and found to be false. When questioned about his past education during a 1993 UFO conference Lazar said:


QUESTION: ...What was the year of your graduation from M.I.T., and did you get a Ph.D.?
LAZAR: No, it was a Masters degree. The year. What was the year of graduation? Probably eighty two...
Source

Say what? Probably 1982? Just 11 years after graduating from MIT (arguably the most esteemed university of mathematics in the USA), Lazar already had forgotten the (year) date?? I don't claim to have worked on any "alien craft" but I can remember the year I graduated from middle school!

* Dan Sherman is another individual who claims to have worked on a "top secret" alien related project. He wrote about his account in his book Above Black: Project Preserve Destiny Insider Account of Alien Contact & Government Cover-Up. The book alleges that this former USAF member was working for the NSA on an ultra top secret project that involved communication with alien beings. This book is on sale at Amazon but also on his website, www.aboveblack.com. The website reads like an infomercial scam:


Buy the ABOVE BLACK ebook now and for limited time you'll receive a free DVD


He quotes good amazon reviews (which can be very easily faked) about his book. Scroll down and you'll find claims that he predicated the Indonesian seismic catastrophe in 2004. Right next to that is an image of paypal so you can click to order (and throw your money out the window).

This guy is all about making a buck! Go to his website www.dansherman.com and scroll down to his June 7, 2006 blog entry. There he lists many of his money making endeavors he's undertaken. Clearly the guy isn't all about getting "the truth out there." He's about making a quick a buck.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only coverup going on within a few intelligence circles is the fact that they know that some of these objects are intelligently controlled vehicles not of this earth. They are not forthcoming with this acknowledgment and frankly I don't blame them. Why do they owe the "average joe"- who has not bothered to do any UFO research and cares more about cheap beer and the superbowl than the universe-- anything?

IRM you bring a great thread to this forum! Thanks again.

-SJ76



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 02:13 PM
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Great question. Here's my opinion, and I'm not sure if anyone has made this point because I stopped reading this thread about half way through (does anyone actually read the entire thread?? I mean I got stuff to do today, and there are other interesting threads on this site).


Originally posted by InfaRedMan
Cheers Son of Will.

I will say that although you can compartmentalize the evidence, you cannot compartmentalize the will of others.




Originally posted by beebs
reply to post by InfaRedMan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I guess it just depends on your own personal threshold of truth and credible people...


Maybe the people who work with this stuff are SO compartmentalized that they're actually working in some ULTRA-SECRET, deep underground facility that they never even see the light of day. I mean humans that will never, EVER communicate with the outside world. And given that, they will have absolutely no idea what has been going on in the socio-political atmosphere over (let's just say, hypothetically) the last 15-20 years.

To answer this question I merely put myself in the shoes of TPTB, and asked myself:

If I had access to UFOs and their technology and I controlled the government and black budget projects, how would I maintain operational security?

Well I would have an equally classified, ULTRA-SECRET program whose sole purpose was the surveillance of such staff ULTRA-SECRET staff.
One of their tasks would the research of (supposedly) already established whistle-blowers like Dan Burisch, Clifford Stone, et al. They would investigate how those people got out, what they knew, who they told, why they told, and what kind of personality/psychological profile they had and then I would implement processes to prevent future leaks.

I mean, honestly... Do you really believe that once a secret is out, that TPTB would just sit there and go, "oh crap. Looks like lost another one. Oh well, back to work." ?? Would you? I mean, continue doing the same thing over and over, and expect secrets to stay secret?

I believe that they would revamp their recruitment and background checking processes to avoid hiring/enslaving people who are more likely divulge classified information and try to select people who lack guilt, remorse, and conscience.

With that said, there may never be a reliable confirmed UFO leak.

Thanks for posing this question. I didn't think about it untill now.



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by Shikamaru
 


Your weak point is the assembly team. If they build something that looks like a "UFO", they would know. They don't need to know the craft's capabilities to make them "in the know" and a potential leak.



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 02:24 PM
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Jetsettingvet:

I used to agree with what u said and I respect your opinion.

I'm basically just saying that if someone had the "goods" and could prove aliens were here it would be irresponsible to do so.

It has nothing to do with keeping that status quo.

You won't always have bills. We created bills and taxes. They weren't here when we arrived. I don't think Adam and eve had to worry whether their electric bill was going to get paid this month. Let's solve this problem before we tackle alien disclosure.

Yes you will always have to provide and protect your family. But let's be honest, the majority of the world (not just the developed world) either can not provide or chooses not to. Let's solve this problem before we tackle alien disclosure.

Aliens would just burden an already burdened planet. Besides isn't it more fun "not knowing" the truth. I think if we were to rely on one group or one government to disclose then you wouldn't be getting full disclosure.

So again, if wikileaks has "the goods" I wouldn't expect them to show it.



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by InfaRedMan
 


What do you think of the Mark McCandlish ARV tale at the Disclosure Project? Do you find it the least bit credible or worth investigating?



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by AllIsOne
 


It's all about a few people knowing. Pay them enough, they shut up, they whistle blow, kill them.

The fewer that know about the projects, the easier it is to control them, thus it's ok if the assembly team knows what they made, they also know if they talk, they're dead, and often, humans are too content with alot of money and having their family close by to give it up, and risk getting everyone killed (their immediate family, anyone they told, etc). No one will ever know.


Look @ Pat Tillman (google), killed by friendly fire, and the military had no problem letting Gen. Stanley McChrystal lie to his family's face.



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by GeechQuestInfo
 


i respect your opinion however i would like the us government to come clean with what they do or do not know about the ufo phenomenon in my lifetime..other countries are comeing forth with their knowledge of this subject ie: britain, france, mexico. but not the u.s. i beleive we will have bills till there is no longer any money to be made by corporations which is a far way off. true adam and eve didnt have bills but they also didnt have money or the greed gene which runs amok in todays society. i feel that the church is in cahoots with the coverup due to the fact they have a lot to lose if the truth comes out, if there are no aliens or ufos why dosent the church come out and say that, the church is a powerfull entitiy in todays world still. ahh but what they did say was if life exsists on other planets its part of God's plan, to cover their own butts i would think. and what would the govt have to lose by coming clean? nothing except a false sense of empowerment. most people either belive or dont care about the ufo subject, hell most people are already not concerned about the gulf spill which is still going on. however any ifo the govt does put forth unfortunatly will be looked at as false by many a skeptic anyways. part of me beleives the govt puts out a lot of disinformation regarding this topic, like the supposed alien autopsy video. i like to think that the government put it out to try and discredit the ufo community. these are just my opinions, thanks for listening



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by Shikamaru
 


Again, Pat Tillman (RIP) is a bad example for secrecy, because we now know what happened ...



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by InfaRedMan
 
Hiya IRM.
Good question...good loaded question. Why aren't any whistle-blowers leaking the good stuff about UFOs? The implication has been pointed out already and that's the possibility/probability that there's nothing to leak. If there's nothing to leak....maybe the whole UFO field is a red herring? Perhaps ET and all the mythologies, cults and business elements that represent them are therefore just figments of imagination...fabrications that some people subscribe to? Hell, it's possible.

Then again...maybe not?


A broader question: Why aren't whistle-blowers leaking the good stuff about anything else?

Look at the significant leaks presented by wikileaks. We've got a bit of corruption in Africa, 9/11 pager messages, some Guantanamo Bay documents and the airstrike video. It's all good stuff and we're grateful that someone, somewhere has taken the time to 'do the right thing' and blow the whistle on them.

At the same time, like most people, I'm kinda guessing they don't represent a significant proportion of shady activities that are perpetuated every day. Arms trade scandals like BAe and the Saudis, political wheelings and dealings, insider trading, Catholic pedophilia, corruption in high places and the business dealings of Bush and Blair. None of these areas have been leaked. People don't seem to be blowing the whistle on much and it's a damn shame.

For example, it's known that the CIA have been instrumental in 'extraordinary rendition' and have an alleged history of involvement in drug trafficking. Does the absence of evidence on wikileaks mean these accounts are false or fabricated? I'm not so sure.

Does the lack of leaks about corporate corruption, market-fixing and monopolies mean it doesn't happen?

In this light, is the absence of UFO leaks significant?



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by Shikamaru
Since all these teams are kept separate, and never know what the devices they make are ever used for, they don't actually know they've made a test craft that is physically alive and being tested.


I may not know all that much about engineering high-tech systems, which a black project aircraft or reverse-engineered alien UFO would certainly be, but if I'm sitting at a table only designing a lug nut for a wheel that supposed to spin at 32,000 rpm, I'm still going to have a pretty good idea what it's going to be used for, just from the technical specifications. I may not know the specifics, but almost anything complex is going to hint at what it's going to be used for. So the compartmentalization argument is not the greatest, as far as I can see.

The biggest problem with keeping anything important secret is limiting the number of people exposed to it. And the bigger the secret, the more people are going to have to deal with it. Something as huge and important as knowledge of the fact of ET intelligence and interaction with Earth is probably not going to be something only a few people would know about and keep under their hats. Physical evidence, whether it's a UFO windshield wiper or a complete craft filled with alien bodies, is going to require thousands of top people working on it - generating tons of paperwork and reports and electronic files. Even if it's just an alien radio signal from another star, you're going to have astronomers, linguists, radio experts and many, many other people studying it -- both military and civilian.

I can't imagine the total number of people who would be exposed to any kind of project like this, but it would be huge. And it's difficult to believe that there wouldn't be at least a few of those people who would take it upon themselves, for personal or religious reasons maybe, to sneak this information out, with verifiable proof, to the general public.

That's why when I consider the possible options here, I tend (but am not thoroughly convinced) to think that a lot of real UFO stuff -- the weird stuff that isn't black projects, natural phenomena, etc. -- has to do with time travel. It's one of the few things that can explain the continuing lack of good leaks. For one, people are going to be very reluctant to release information about it, because functional time travel (alternate timelines aside) puts everybody's personal existence in very grave danger. For another, any successful leak can be tracked down and essentially "stopped before it starts." It's one of the few ways to explain the continued lack of that one leak of that one critical piece of undeniable evidence that would explain and prove everything. But after a while, the lack of a particular kind of evidence becomes a kind of evidence, itself.

Of course, our current physics models only allow for very limited kinds of time travel. So as explanations go, it's not good, and I admit it. But you have to try to let the explanation fit the facts, not the other way around.

My only other "explanation" is that there's really nothing to leak about, or that the phenomenon is so baffling that nobody knows anything to leak. I tend to think this isn't the case, though, as I have always thought there was plenty of evidence, but it just didn't add up to anything recognizable or consistent. So who knows? Maybe there's nothing to it all.

But after having an interest in this subject for around 45 years, I've had to look at more "fringe" notions for explanations, because in all this time, no one -- whistle-blower, Stan Friedman, or anyone else -- has been able to come forward with any good data to nail down the popular ET explanation.



[edit on 22-6-2010 by Blue Shift]



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 03:04 PM
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I love the Topic redman.

Unfortunately i dont have time to read the thread like I used to in the past. time is limited but i will say that the recession could be a good reason why people are holding fast.

i love the pic you posted to open the article btw. very cool.

so yeah, my vote is its recession based. thats the only thing i could think of at the moment.




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