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vaginal bacteria act as babys first inoculation

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posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 06:53 PM
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I've always been opinionated regarding Childbirth and breastfeeding... something that has caused much controversy with some of my women friends who seem to think that, being a man, i am not entitled to an opinion on this subject.

However, i see myself as a member of the Human race first and foremost... and as such i have always been pro natural childbirth and breastfeeding.

Now this doesn’t mean that i want Caesarean section banned or anything silly like that... Caesareans are a very important procedure that have saved millions of mothers and babies.

But i do feel that we are slowly moving down a path of convenience before nature.

I have always been of the opinion that nature knows best and that that there are unknown benefits to natural childbirth that are yet to be discovered.

Recent work in Venezuela has reinforced my opinion by suggesting that babies born from Caesarean are more prone to a host of disease including Asthma, diphtheria, acne, MRSA and various allergies.

This is due to the baby not passing through the naturally occurring bacteria in the vagina and therefore missing an opportunity to strengthen the immune system.

www.independent.co.uk...





Dr Noah Fierer, one of the study leaders from the University of Colorado in the US, said: "In a sense the skin of newborn infants is like freshly tilled soil that is awaiting seeds for planting – in this case, bacterial communities. The microbial communities that cluster on new-borns essentially act as their first inoculation."


Nature DOES know best... my advice to anyone who wants to have children...

If you are fit and able, and all goes well, go for a natural childbirth...

What a lot of woman are not informed of is, although often more convenient for the hospitals, a Caesarean is major abominable surgery that will involve far more pain and a longer recovery period in most cases.

However, it goes with saying that you should always listen carefully to the medical professionals helping you through the birth... especially if you have high blood pressure or a pre existing condition such as diabetes.



[edit on 21-6-2010 by Muckster]

[edit on 25-6-2010 by alien]




posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 07:10 PM
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reply to post by Muckster
 


As a woman, I agree with your post, I also believe that nature does know best and the baby should be born when it's ready, not just when it's convenient. I also agree that there certainly is a need for cesarean procedures in an emergency.

However, I do have to disagree with you on one point, natural vaginal birth vs vaginal birth with pain medication. On THAT, you, as a man, have no right to have an opinion.



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 07:19 PM
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Great thread Muck, I agree 100% with you on this one for sure.

My wife had both of our kids naturally, and the 2nd time she did not take any pain medications.

She liked her choice and said it felt right.

Also, she breastfed both of our children.

We believe that formula lacks the nutrition that breast milk contains, and it also lacks many of the chemicals that are critically important for their brain development early on.

My wife claims that the human body is so in tune with their child, that it will actually change it's output depending on what the child needs.

"Your body knows what the baby needs, and takes the correct balance of vitamins and minerals out of your bodies storage to give the baby what it needs specifically."

That is exactly what she just said. I asked her.

She also said there are billions of antibodies in the breast milk as well, that are tailor made for the baby to gain a stronger immune system.

Formula on the other hand, is merely a mix of industrial grade vitamins and nutrients that are mostly difficult for the baby to digest and absorb correctly.

Plus in formula there are not tailor made antibodies that can help them specifically.

In the end there is a million reasons why a mom should bread feed her children. It's from our survival instinct. It is far healthier.

Breast fed children tend to be healthier and more physically fit as well; I am simply comparing my kids with formula kids.

Mine are big and fat and super active, while formula kids tend to be skinny, small, and rather inactive.

Also, I agree that Cesarean Sections are needed in some cases, but these days people are getting C-Sections simply for the Convenience factor alone. It's so screwed up lol.



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman


However, I do have to disagree with you on one point, natural vaginal birth vs vaginal birth with pain medication. On THAT, you, as a man, have no right to have an opinion.




My wife prefers no medications.

She would know because she gave birth to our two kids.

First one on meds, second one no meds.



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Yeah, that's exactly how I did it too. First one with an epidural, second one natural. However, I think I should disclose that the second one wasn't natural (non-medicated) on purpose.


I do have to say that overall, I guess I did prefer natural over medicated. Just because I felt so much better, clearer, etc afterward. But then again, one's memory of the process of birth is short once it's over. Thank God! No one would ever do it twice, if it wasn't.

[edit on 21/6/2010 by Iamonlyhuman]



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
However, I do have to disagree with you on one point, natural vaginal birth vs vaginal birth with pain medication. On THAT, you, as a man, have no right to have an opinion.



As a new-ish father (our son is 10months old now) I completely agree!


My wife is a Nurse by the way - and she is in no way opposed to drugs during child-birth. In fact, she's trained enough she could probably whack in the lines and whatever else herself...and would have gladly done so.

During our anti-natal classes she was extremely vocal about her intention to basically take anything being offered! And even frisking the pockets of anyone dodgy looking on the way in to Maternity in case they had anything 'less legal' to take as well...


The uproar that happened in those AntiNatal Classes from the many Pro-natural-birthers I personally found quite astounding.
Both my wife and I work within the Hospital system actually...so I could understand the opposing rationale...but when it came to people within those classes asking ME what my opinion was, whether or not I agreed with her view on taking pain-killers etc during birth...well my answer was simple:

"I'm not the one who has to push a pumpkin out of the eye of a needle...so I'm pretty much leaving the call to the one who is!"

There were numerous people in the Class who vowed and declared their births would be natural.


End Result:
My wife became extremely nauseous 'on the gas'...so she didn't have the aid of Nitrous.
She was also far too dialated and indeed our boy was beginning to crown by the time she elected to go with an Epi...so she was out of luck on that front as well.
The wife gave birth to our son, 7lb 11oz, without any drugs at all.

From what I found out later, the two loudest pro-natural-birth-drug-assisted-birth-will-make-your-child-a-crack-addict-and-you-should-be-ashamed-you-evil-parent-you! ladies from the AntiNatal Class both pretty much hollared for anything remotely drug-like mere seconds after their arrival in the Delivery Suite...



Nature has a way yes...and a bit of a helping hand if so be it certainly...but just from my own experience of being a first-time Dad, of being in the Delivery Suite, of doing whatever I could to support the wife through it, well:
Bottomline is you gotta do whatever you gotta do! Screaming, gnawing and gnashing of teeth, swearing and tearing crap apart - and thats just from the Daddy!!


...females being seen and refered to by some the 'weaker sex'?? Ahhh no. No way. Stuff that. My wife is the strongest person I know. More power to her!



Peace.

[edit on 21-6-2010 by alien]



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman

I do have to say that overall, I guess I did prefer natural over medicated. Just because I felt so much better, clearer, etc afterward. But then again, one's memory of the process of birth is short once it's over. Thank God! No one would ever do it twice, if it wasn't.

[edit on 21/6/2010 by Iamonlyhuman]


Thats exactly what my wife says, lol.

One thing though, when she got the epi during the first birth, the guy was a retard noob and he screwed it all up and stuck her in the wrong spot. They had to work on it for awhile.

Anyways, this mistake caused massive pain in my wife's lower spine (where the epidural was placed) for months afterwards.

She was in bad shape because of that 1 mistake.

The 2nd time she refused the epidural simply because of that mistake they made the first time which caused her MONTHS of pain and distress.

She says that a few days of pain are nothing compared to months of pain when these noobs screw you up.



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 07:43 PM
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Good post!
I never thought of the bacteria/vag thing, mainly b/c thats gross to contemplate.
However, Its certainly an opportunity to strengthen the immune system.

I also want to add.

Nature doesnt ALWAYS know whats best.

If you think about random mutations and natural selection, The things alive NOW dont necessarily have the BEST POSSIBLE qualities to them, just better than previous versions. Life is always evolving and getting better. You cant just MAKE the best possible mutation happen. Just ones that are better than what we have now!



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 07:48 PM
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I agree with you completley! I'm 8 months pregnant, and planning a natural birth (but hey, i won't say no to the gas if need be
) but i think it's ridiculous that ob's just want to cut us open for convenience. C-sections can be great if it's an emergency to mum & bubs, but otherwise,if you can have a successful natural birth - why not at least try! I can't tell you how frustrating it is to plan a natural birth to have so many uneducated childless women come up to you and say 'wow, no way, i'm just going to have a c-section so i don't have to worry' Um.. WHAT!? they don't realise that having a c-sect is equal to major surgery, and how hard it can be to recover, not to mention the risk factor getting higher and higher with subsequent pregnancies, with the chances of uterine rupture & greater chances of PPH and (around here anyway) doctors aren't a big fan of the VBAC, so just want you to book in for c-sect #2, 3, 4 and so on. No thanks!!!

It's no suprise that the c-sect rates are higher in daylight hours between monday to friday is it
. And to make matters worse, they are trying to make homebirth impossible over here pretty much. Feels like womens rights to their own birth is being stripped away.

Midwives are the way to go for sure, so long as they aren't MEDwives, workers under the thumb of the OB's just doing what they are told.



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 07:50 PM
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I had to have an emergency C section after planning on having a natural birth using hypnobirthing. The doctors also insisted I be induced, although I fought pretty hard against it. They kept saying I'd have a dead baby if I didn't induce. After trying Acupuncture to bring on labor, and waiting a few days after the Drs insisted, I went ahead and gave in. Boy do I regret it! the pitocin made my contractions constant- I held out for a with out the meds, but I couldn't take the constant pain any longer .... I tried to deliver naturally, but babys heart and breathing dropped and they rushed me in to cut him out. It was awful. I ended up getting an infection the day i was sent home, and had to go right back to the ER for a week. I'm sad he missed out on a natural birth, and the benefits that come with it . So my advice is to NOT go for an elective C section.

[edit on 21-6-2010 by toolstarr]



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 01:53 AM
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My first 2 were born at the hospital and i had pethidine with both of them because the midwives were of the opinion that i had 'ages to go'.I didn't.
They were born not long after so,i gave birth to sleepy babies


My 3rd and 4th were born at home.....a TOTALLY different experience!I was in control and the midwives let me call the shots infact,they sat on my sofa drinking tea for most of the birth
.....it was actually an 'enjoyable' experience for me.No pain relief,everything calm and my other children were asleep upstairs the whole time.And i had a natural 3rd stage too(delivery of the placenta).....and my son was born in his caul,that wouldn't have been allowed in the hospital,they would've ruptured it.

I breastfed too.

I was lucky.

I really do believe that if you can aim for a natural birth,you should and i don't understand the women that book themselves in for a c-section so that the birth will fit into their schedule,when there is no medical 'reason' for such a procedure.



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 02:46 AM
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I used to breed giant geckos and when the eggs pass out the cloaca they get a thin coat of bacteria to protect them. If the mother gecko dies while the eggs are still inside her you can remove the eggs and try to hatch them. But they will never hatch. The bacteria the egg receives as it passes is essential for its survival.



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 03:29 AM
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OP: you are absolutely correct! It shows how much alienated the human race has become! I am discusted by the fact that most women choose to give birth at the hospital. I would never think it is a good environment for a child to start his/her life!

Another thing that disgusts me is the use of sedatives/numbing agents. It has been shown time and time again that the most healthy babies are vaginally born, and of the vaginally born the healthiest are the ones whos mothers decided to giv a NATURAL birth without medication, to enjoy every sensation of the miracle of giving birth!



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 03:50 AM
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I had an epidural with my oldest out of ignorance, had my 3rd c-section out of necessity, but my second was completely natural with out drugs. Most rewarding experience of my life. I remember the details so much more clearly than my other births. I don't remember the pain but it seems to leave a deeper impression on your memories so you can remember every little detail crystal clear.



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 04:36 AM
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Originally posted by above
...and of the vaginally born the healthiest are the ones whos mothers decided to giv a NATURAL birth without medication, to enjoy every sensation of the miracle of giving birth!



...showed this to my wife...

...our son was vaginal delivery without drugs...

...bolded the bit for you that she uttered a very loud expletive...as she is pretty adamant not every sensation of her drug-free vaginal birth was enjoyable...in fact some of it was downright UN-enjoyable for her...and for my fingers/hand she was squeezing until she dislocated my thumb...



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 05:22 AM
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Thanks for all the replies... Just to make one thing a little clearer regarding my initial post...

My feelings towards pain relief are similar to that of Caesarean... Of course the option should be there, and of course it should be the mothers choice...

However, i just feel that the mainstream medical profession often pushes us into a corner during pregnancy.... Often just giving you the option of Gas and Air, Pethadin or epidural... The medical profession will give you a list of horrors that can occur should you not go with their techniques.

This is fine... but there needs to be a counterbalance... many women come out of consultations terrified about, what now seems like, an invasive parasite that will kill them if they don’t have a host of powerful drugs and surgical removal of parasite through abdominal surgery... OK... I’ve exaggerated slightly, but you see my point


I just think that natural childbirth and vaginal delivery should be encouraged as a first option for healthy mums to be. We need to look at pregnancy and childbirth as something beautiful and a gift... However, sometimes the medical profession can make it feel the opposite. I now many mums that are not even told about water birth for example.

Water birth is an excellent option that not only helps with pain relief... it can also prevent tearing!

(Water birth is something i would highly recommend to a mum to be)


I guess what i am trying to say is... women should have ALL the facts and options given to them by staff that are trained in, not just the medical procedures of Childbirth, but also the philosophy of childbirth.

Once again, thanks for the replys...

Peace!


[edit on 22-6-2010 by Muckster]



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 02:15 PM
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I read this article a few days ago.. great post!

I had both of my children natural and drug free. The second time around I did hypnobirthing and it was PAIN FREE! There are other options for pain management than drugs!

Low risk women should consider having a midwife, rather than an OB, midwives are (usually) much more natural childbirth friendly, and rarely push c-sections, drugs, and other invasive procedures.

Also.. breastfeeding.. very important! I can't even begin to list all the major benefits of having an exclusively breastfed baby!



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by Muckster
 


What if the mother has herpes and has an outbreak when the child is being born, or some other type of sexual transmitted disease that the child would then get as he left the mothers body?



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 02:28 PM
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OP I agree with what you are saying. My first child was born while I was knocked out on pain meds (38years ago) and formula fed. My second was natural and breast fed. The health of the second child was much better that that of the first.

My only request is could you change your title to say bacteria instead of bugs.



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by darkelf
 





My only request is could you change your title to say bacteria instead of bugs.



Oh... er... yes, in hindsight that does seem a little crass... Sorry about that, didn’t mean to offend anyone... Unfortunately though, the Edit tab is no longer available...

Any mods reading this would you be so kind as to make the change requested??

Thanks in advance... and sorry again for any offence caused.



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