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Failure of the Federal Government to Secure Borders is a Breach of Contract

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posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 11:19 AM
Honestly, if we are to secure that border we need to militarize the 1000 miles of border and design it similar to the demilitarized zone in Korea.

we start with a simple fence with warning signs that anyone who attempts to pass through this fence will be met with deadly force. 50 yds pas that we build one tall razor wire fence. Then 50 yds of Land mines. Then another tall razor wire fence. and the another fence with the same warnings. You can add sentries, patrols and any other pieces to the mix and be just fine.

This works in Korea and it will work here!

I am tired of all the Bvll#! lets just get the job done. Its simple militarize this area build the wall hiring nothing but US citizens and give them jobs maintaining and securing the border as a civil border corp or as a government employee either way I dont care.

All the politics can go to hell for all I care! For once we need a real american as a president not a F'ing politician. We need a real american as a president that is willing to act instead of react like Czar Obama does... Focus on fixing The US before focusing on issues abroad like helping the EU and funding the IMF. I say screw everyone else lets nationalize our debt call back all the US currency abolish the income tax and replace it with a better system based on usage rather than income such as a fair tax or VAT tax. and fix our home before we bail out anyone else like greece.

This stuff is simple economics why is it so hard for TPTB to make the easiest of decisions?

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 11:35 AM
reply to post by brainwrek

It is my understanding that the US and Mexican armed forces are working together so that may be the reason their copters or whatever have been spotted on or over US soil. Maybe not but until it's confirmed one way or the other its just speculation.

As for the illegals. Treaties and laws usually have a part in them that establishes definitions. Dictionary definitions don't always coinside with definitions written into laws and treaties. Until they are declared enemies by your gov they're just undocumented immigrants.

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 11:36 AM

Originally posted by mothershipzeta

Originally posted by daddio
reply to post by PayMeh

Absolutely correct. "To provide for the general welfare" means to protect the Citizenry from insurgents. Does not matter if they are friendly or not. The armed Citizens are correct in forming malitias'. It is now OUR duty to protect each other. The government is guilty of treason in allowing the borders to be ungaurded.

People keep throwing around the words "treason" and "traitor," but none of you seem to know what they mean.

Try reading the Constitution sometime:


Article III Section 3

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Unless I missed something, we're not at war with Mexico. And I haven't noticed illegal immigrants committing acts of war. Are some criminals? Sure. But crime and war are completely different. Using the word "insurgent" just makes the position look more ridiculous.

People who talk about taking up arms against the Obama Administration? According to our Constitution, THAT is treason.

From your own post "giving them Aid and Comfort." Do not illegals get free crap that WE THE PEOPLE pay for? And would it not be safe to say that the "corporate/government" is adhering to letting them in?

What DO YOU not understand?

Edit to add:

People who talk about taking up arms against the Obama Administration? According to our Constitution, THAT is treason.

I am not talking about taking up arms AGAINST the Obamination Administration, I am talking about taking up arms to defending ourselves from ALL enemies, Foreign AND Domestic. The Goverment/Corporation has overstepped it's bounds of authority far too many times, God/Nature created MAN, MAN created government TO SERVE HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get it straight before you shoot your mouth off.

[edit on 22-6-2010 by daddio]

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 11:46 AM
they are more than undocumented immigrants... they are Criminals because they are committing a felony act by entering a country illegally. They should be treated as criminals man, woman and child. I am not saying be rude or violent toward the people but I am saying they shouldnt get all the luxuries and benefits that citizens get. If we cross over into Mexico illegally we get automatically thrown into prison and not a luxury prison like we have here in the states. Keep in mind that for every person that enters this country thats another person that our current government will have to support and that means more of your tax dollars goes to support them instead of you! Its so funny that people from Europe, Africa, and Asia follow the guidelines and are often told "no" and they wait and try again until they can get here and nobody fights for their right to be here yet someone blatantly breaks our laws and everybody and their brother jumps all over how these people have a right to be here! one of my friends is going through all this red tape to get his fiance here from france and its taking a toll on him and his relationship yet these illegal criminals are given the red carpet... its sad to see all the hypocrisy in today's politics!

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 11:50 AM

Originally posted by APOCOLYPSE DAWN
they are more than undocumented immigrants... they are Criminals because they are committing a felony act by entering a country illegally.

Wrong being in the US illegally is not a felony but an administrative infraction. Like a building code violation or parking ticket. It carries no jail time and although a fine may be placed it usually isn't.

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 12:15 PM
reply to post by PayMeh

I most wholeheartedly agree with you. It is a breech of contract, and I can guarantee you that Obama did not take the Constitutional Oath, and neither did the Governors, Senators, or Congressmen. There is only one way to take care of this, and that is by Common Law. We need our Military to arrest all of the lawyers on government, (prohibited by original 13th Amendment) and install a proper, Constitutional civilian government that has sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution.

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 12:17 PM
See this is why I always try to start up an easy thread.
Because you really need just sit in silence for a thing like this.
It goes back and forth over and over and over.
Like someone said, setting a goal too high makes your brain hurt.
You call this extortion?
This is when your going to get mad?
Have you ever heard of a little company called the IRS.
Jesus man, this is what your getting mad about?!?!?!
You think they aren't guarding those boarders like hawks?
They are, but why don't you research the money that actually goes into these supposed "drug cartels".
Your money is fueling these people.
And I'm not talking about the weed.
But the corruption that lets it all go down...for what you ask?
Well, I think you can listen to this song, unless you really can't listen to hip hop I suggest you listen to this song and understand exactly what's going on.
These people will forever be empowered and at the same time, it is the oppressed who flee's to you guys... Just like many south east asians flee to my town. You think I get mad? No?
They took some of our jobs...sure.
But why? Because I WOULDN'T DO IT! and they were qualified all the power to them. Though around here it seems we are past minorities.
Though I am currently employed and we all do very fine living in our very multi cultural town. I even understand Patwa.
And I'm pure Canadian.
If you don't want these people in your country, then just bomb them. If you want to drop that reputation for being the bringer of justice and peace...You can just let it go and kill em all...
I mean they are only so poor because the NAFTA.
So just get rid of them they are only your neighbor.

If it was you my American friends.
If it was YOU! Who was coming to my borders because YOUR Government had turned on YOU!.
Under YOUR logic....I should tell you guys to get back to your own country. Border off and label every person in NY yankee hat for some papers.
But you know what, I wouldn't!
We have more than enough room for you guys up here. Hell man, Saskatchewan could fit all of you.
So what am I now a wussy?
Because I let you Americans in to my country because your country has turned on you.
Get real.
Think about what you say.
Go read a book.
Go get your head examined...
Oh wait, you'll have to pay to get that checked out eh?

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 12:17 PM
Nogales Police: We won't back down from cartels

Mexican drug cartel threatens to harm U.S. police officers who bust drug shipments while off-duty

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 01:07 PM
Senators Challenge Pres. Obama on Rumors of Executive Order Amnesty

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 01:49 PM
One talking point I NEVER hear Americans talk about in discussions like this is about the amnesty Mexico provided to American outlaws in the 19th and 20th century...

Doesn't anyone here remember that back then, your average Jesse James type could rob a couple trains, hold up a few banks, or ravage a couple of mining outposts, then head for the border?

True... those folks took thier economic gains and supported the Mexican government with it, but it goes to reason that what we are experiencing today is the payback of those times lol... To some degree at least, folks have to admit that there is some truth in the above statement.

I for one do not agree with letting Illegal Immigrants amnesty or for that matter, an ability to access my Country in such loosly available terms. I agree that the government should secure our borders, as it is their Constitutional duty to do such.

However, nothing is perfect, and games will be played by both sides...

The Obama administration has breeched it's Constitutional Duties in more than one occasion to date - including the fact that the President himself may even be a breech of constitutionality.

The Facts speak for themselves - if a President isn't constitutionally legal to be in office, why would such a person regard thier Constitutional obligations while holding that office?....

[edit on 6/22/2010 by Megiddodiddo]

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 04:37 PM

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by kozmo

The reality is that nothing they do will ever match your definition of securing the border. They could put the military down there and many of you will still complain the border isn't secure.

That border has never been secure in US history and never will be. If anything, this is the most security that border has ever had. Add to that that you have all kind of law enforcement in on the game and you just can't say they aren't trying to secure the border.
How Eisenhower solved illegal border crossings from Mexico

Then on June 17, 1954, what was called "Operation Wetback" began. Because political resistance was lower in California and Arizona, the roundup of aliens began there. Some 750 agents swept northward through agricultural areas with a goal of 1,000 apprehensions a day. By the end of July, over 50,000 aliens were caught in the two states. Another 488,000, fearing arrest, had fled the country.

By mid-July, the crackdown extended northward into Utah, Nevada, and Idaho, and eastward to Texas.

By September, 80,000 had been taken into custody in Texas, and an estimated 500,000 to 700,000 illegals had left the Lone Star State voluntarily.

Unlike today, Mexicans caught in the roundup were not simply released at the border, where they could easily reenter the US. To discourage their return, Swing arranged for buses and trains to take many aliens deep within Mexico before being set free.

Tens of thousands more were put aboard two hired ships, the Emancipation and the Mercurio. The ships ferried the aliens from Port Isabel, Texas, to Vera Cruz, Mexico, more than 500 miles south.

The sea voyage was "a rough trip, and they did not like it," says Don Coppock, who worked his way up from Border Patrolman in 1941 to eventually head the Border Patrol from 1960 to 1973.

Mr. Coppock says he "cannot understand why [President] Bush let [today's] problem get away from him as it has. I guess it was his compassionate conservatism, and trying to please [Mexican President] Vincente Fox."

There are now said to be 12 million to 20 million illegal aliens in the US. Of the Mexicans who live here, an estimated 85 percent are here illegally.
Border Patrol vets offer tips on curbing illegal immigration

One day in 1954, Border Patrol agent Walt Edwards picked up a newspaper in Big Spring, Texas, and saw some startling news. The government was launching an all-out drive to oust illegal aliens from the United States.

The orders came straight from the top, where the new president, Dwight Eisenhower, had put a former West Point classmate, Gen. Joseph Swing, in charge of immigration enforcement.

General Swing's fast-moving campaign soon secured America's borders – an accomplishment no other president has since equaled. Illegal migration had dropped 95 percent by the late 1950s.

Several retired Border Patrol agents who took part in the 1950s effort, including Mr. Edwards, say much of what Swing did could be repeated today.

"Some say we cannot send 12 million illegals now in the United States back where they came from. Of course we can!" Edwards says.

[edit on 22-6-2010 by RRokkyy]

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 05:47 PM
reply to post by daskakik

Wrong.. It's not a ticket offense, it's a "do not pass go, do not collect $200" go straight to an ICE holding area. Upon discovery illegal immigrants from ANY country are to be arrested and turned over to ICE within 48 hours for a court hearing to determine if immediate deportation is in order.

Any law enforcement officer that simply issues a ticket for illegal immigrants is guilty of extortion.

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 06:34 PM

Originally posted by jam321
Just because the fed isn't securing the border to one's liking, doesn't mean they aren't trying to secure the border.

Think that the fed would accept that argument when someone can't pay their taxes?
Of course not.

Well neither do we.

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 08:52 PM
reply to post by PayMeh

The fact is that it is an administative infraction and they even get the chance to leave voluntarily so that they can apply, without the incident hindering future eligability, to enter the US legally.

Voluntary Departure The departure of an alien from the United States without an order of removal. The departure may or may not have been preceded by a hearing before an immigration judge. An alien allowed to voluntarily depart concedes removability but does not have a bar to seeking admission at a port-of-entry at any time. Failure to depart within the time granted results in a fine and a ten-year bar to several forms of relief from deportation.

Voluntary Departure

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 08:59 PM
reply to post by daskakik

That clause only applies to immigrants who entered through legal means in the first place. Those who's visas have run out or are revoked for certain reasons. You know, those who are already in the system - they have to be in order to be deported without prejudice.

Try again. =P

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 08:59 PM
reply to post by ..5..

Think that the fed would accept that argument when someone can't pay their taxes?
Of course not.

Your version of secure is unrealistic.

Please tell me which year in the last 100 years has had more security than what you are currently seeing on the Southwest Border?

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 09:00 PM
reply to post by PayMeh

I am not expert but I have to agree. Our Government has lost its way and needs to be replaced and restructured starting with the Constitution and then things put in place to eliminate the Coorproate and elitest hold on politicians. The framers would throw every one of these idiots in prison or worse if they were here today.

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 09:16 PM
reply to post by PayMeh

No it applies to all immigrants even border hoppers.

3. How is voluntary departure granted?

INS border patrol agents can offer voluntary departure to aliens when they are apprehended at or near the border. INS officers and immigration judges can also offer voluntary departure, usually when an alien is apprehended inside the United States for violations of the immigration law.


posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 10:09 PM
From your source...

The 96 Act creates new restrictions on the granting of voluntary departure, a form of
relief that benefits aliens by allowing them to avoid, at their own expense, the
consequence of a formal order or removal or deportation.
Under the 96 Act, the INS and immigration judges may grant voluntary departure to an
alien for up to a period of 120 days. Aliens who fail to depart within that time will become
ineligible for voluntary departure or certain other forms of relief for a period of ten years.
Aliens may also be assessed criminal penalties and civil penalties between $1,000 and
1. What are the advantages of voluntary departure?
Voluntary departure benefits aliens by allowing them to enter into an agreement to
leave the United States of their own volition, to resolve logistical concerns (such as family
arrangements or property disposition), and to avoid the consequences of a formal order
or removal. It eases case management for the INS and for the immigration court, and it
saves taxpayer dollars because aliens depart at their own expense.
2. Who is eligible for voluntary departure?
Voluntary departure is available both during and prior to removal proceedings.
Arriving aliens, aggravated felons, and terrorists are not eligible. The decision whether to
grant voluntary departure to an eligible alien is made by an INS officer or by an
immigration judge based on humanitarian concerns, prior immigration law violations, and
other discretionary factors.
3. How is voluntary departure granted?
INS border patrol agents can offer voluntary departure to aliens when they are
apprehended at or near the border. INS officers and immigration judges can also offer
voluntary departure, usually when an alien is apprehended inside the United States for
violations of the immigration law.
4. What conditions are placed on voluntary departure?
To ensure an alien's timely departure, INS may require a bond, evidence of travel
documents, detention of the alien until departure, and/or removal under safeguards.
Voluntary departure granted at the conclusion of removal proceedings is limited to 60
days and the alien must post a bond of $500 or more. In addition, only aliens who have
been present in the United States for one year prior to being placed in removal
proceedings may be granted voluntary departure at the conclusion of proceedings. If the
bond is not posted within five business days, the voluntary departure order will be
cancelled and an alternate order or removal will take effect. An immigration judge may
also impose additional conditions."

Arriving aliens - Meaning the ones not in the system - are not eligible for voluntary departure.

[edit on 22-6-2010 by PayMeh]

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 10:18 PM
On top of that, voluntary departure is simply a choice. It allows ICE and judges to give those trying to obtain legal admittance the choice to go back and try again without prejudice.

Failure to leave the country on their own within 120 days denies them the chance to reapply for legal citizenship for the term of 10 years.

From the Overview:
"The 96 Act undertakes a comprehensive reorganization of the process of removal for inadmissible and deportable aliens, including a provision for the expedited removal of inadmissible aliens arriving at U.S. ports of entry."

The section you refer to is, again, for those whom apply for citizenship by the legal means.

All those who bother to skip this process are subject, upon discovery, for arrest, relenquished to ICE within 48 hours, brought before a judge, and promptly returned to country of origin.

No perversion of these laws will change the facts.

Also this is not on topic, really, as the thread topic is legal ramifications implied by the federal governments unwillingness to secure the borders when faced by hostile, foreign entities.

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