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Rand Paul to long-term jobless: Just go back to work

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posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 03:46 PM

Republican U.S. Senate candidate Rand Paul on Friday urged Americans who have been unemployed for many months to consider returning to the workforce in less desirable jobs rather than continue relying on government unemployment assistance.

"In Europe, they give about a year of unemployment. We're up to two years now in America," Paul said on Sue Wylie’s WVLK-AM 590 radio program.

"As bad as it sounds, ultimately we do have to sometimes accept a wage that's less than we had at our previous job in order to get back to work and allow the economy to get started again," Paul said. "Nobody likes that, but it may be one of the tough love things that has to happen."

Paul was responding to a question from Wylie about Thursday's Senate Republican filibuster of a $120 billion package of additional jobless benefits and state aid. Tens of thousands of Americans will have exhausted their unemployment benefits this month without that extension.

Paul said he supports the filibuster. If the Senate thinks the bill is necessary, it needs to find the money to pay for it elsewhere in the federal budget rather than add to the $13 trillion national debt, he said.

"It's all a matter of making priorities," Paul said. "Some tough decisions will have to be made."

I recommend people actually READ the quotes. I don't see anything wrong with what he said, and I don't really see him "urging unemployed to go back to work."

But following a link from linked page on the first post shows this :

On other subjects, Paul said the first bill he files if he’s elected will be a constitutional amendment setting term limits for members of Congress. But he would not pledge to limit his own time in Washington unless such rules were enforced on all lawmakers.

Paul’s father, U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, has called for mandatory term limits since joining Congress in the 1970s.

“The problem is when people voluntarily follow the rules, the good people come home and the bad people stay,” Rand Paul said. “I don’t have any intention of staying for longer than two terms, but I’m not really making a commitment."

Looks like someone trying to impose term limits that is instead being labelled as uncaring towards the jobless. Gimme a break.

posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 04:03 PM
I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Some people are riding it for all it's worth


there are NOT a lot of jobs - not at all..

Add in...banks are not giving out loans for small businesses to start...or for small businesses to expand....

posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 04:37 PM
Reply to post by OldDragger


Posted Via ATS Mobile:

posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 04:42 PM

Originally posted by muzzleflash
No he's right.

Everyone has become lazy these days expecting hand outs.

And they are "too good" for the crappy jobs.

So, someone supporting a family should get a minimum wage job that will disqualify them for government assistance, but will not give them enough income to actually support their family.

Tell you what - don't make grand generalizations based upon anecdotal evidence and karma might give you a pass on this one.

posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 04:48 PM
reply to post by mothershipzeta

Are you saying it is impossible to live off of minimum wage? Tell that to people that live off of minimum wage.

posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 04:58 PM
I see both sides of this but reading through this thread just shows how sad the situation is, how sad the system is. We need to change the world. All we get are crumbs, then we compete over those crumbs. Sure everyone could take a pure commission job tomorrow, then through competition they'd all make effectively 0. Fast food workers should make more, considering how much profit that store likely makes.

The only reason we get paid so little is because we are replaceable. It has little to do in most cases with the actual value of our productive inputs. Think about it. Now the people that make good money, probably hate to hear that, because they probably take their salary as a measure of their self-worth and proof that God loves them. (sorry but I would be just as hard on myself)

But really the people of the world should go on strike from work and from buying corporate products. Of course the situation would have to be so bad, or people willing enough to free themselves, that they'd be willing to give up everything.

We are murdering ourselves (or at least our souls) by playing to this system and fighting EACHOTHER, instead of hurting the people pulling the strings that force us to compete tooth and nail over scraps.

[edit on 21-6-2010 by Novise]

posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 10:31 PM
I just hate how people blame the higher ups for everything when they take no responsibility themselves.

They blame society, society blames them.

There are problems everywhere, but by no means are we exempt from them.

posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 11:25 PM
There are two ways to look at this.

The people that want jobs and will take anything. These people deserve respect, it's hard to find anything right now. Not a lot of opportunity exists.

Then there are the people that had good jobs before and are holding out living off the government dime for a job like they had before.

These people should be spat on.

You know the type, they had a good job, got loans for everything under the sun, now they have no job and are worried about loosing everything, all the while, sending out resumes by the truckload to companies they know don't have any jobs. Not willing to take anything just to get by, they want what they had before.

All the while, having no problem posting on an internet forum all day about how bad the POTUS is and how awful it is to be a socialist, they fail to see the irony that they themselves are living off a socialist system. Milking those of us that are lucky enough to have jobs for our tax dollars, while at the same time bitching how bad the POTUS is.

But that's typical isn't it?

[edit on 6/22/2010 by whatukno]

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 12:06 AM
reply to post by whatukno

Puh-leeeeez, I've paid more in taxes than you'll ever earn! And for the record, I'm not receiving unemployment. I'm fortunate enough to have investments and savings to keep me going. Ergo, your sympathy isn't necessary nor is it wanted.

Let me break this down real s-l-o-w-l-y for those of you who are perhaps too slow to understand what is happening here. A good many of us presently unemployed folks are unemployed not as a result of our work ethic, but as a result of terrible decisions on the part of the banks and the politicians. The vast majority of us would like nothing more than to return to work ASAP. The problem is that your socialist president continues to find ways to choke the life out of anything that begins to approach a recovery. Why does he continue to bail out companys who deserve to go under? Why does he continue to increase the national debt on pointless programs? Why does he push for legislative hurdles that hurt small businesses?

All of these failed policies are contributing to the fact that companies are refusing to hire employees. Many are scared of the tax implications and the healthcare costs that will be levied against them. Others simply cannot secure the short-term loans required to add head count. And, of course, not wanting a good crisis to go to waste, the government is discussing the introduction of draconian invasions of privacy for people to even receive their meager unemployment benefits. It is simply wrong!

Then, to add insult to injury, certain self-righteous forum members decide to come on here and offer lectures to the unemployed about how they just need to get off their asses and get a job and do so while sprinkling various ad hominems around - for good measure I suppose.

What you fail to grasp, and perhaps this has something to do with your "career" or lack thereof, is that many of us have worked for decades to build a career path and reputation in our respective industries that need to be protected. Position, income, responsibility - all of these things are generally based on your most recent position. Somehow McDonald's just doesn't seem to conjure up images of Director, VP etc... Additionally, many of these organizations are avoiding hiring people with those types of backgrounds as they know full well that they will leave when a better opportunity presents itself. Or worse, we are being discriminated against by these hiring managers because we are immensly more qualified to do their jobs than they are and this threatens them.

The bottom line is that this is a complex issue that cannot be resolved with pointless lectures by self-righteous dolts who just happen to be among those fortunate enough to be presently employed - for now. Keep in mind, your situation is tenuous at best. So why beg for a karmic response to your ignorance?

It would be far more wise to show compassion toward people who are unemployed through no fault of their own. And yes, a simpletons approach yields shallow advice, "Go get a job!"
It's not that easy when their are 20 workers for each job opening and each job posting receives thousands of resumes and the local car wash isn't interested in hiring a former Director of Sales and Marketing to dry cars. So, save the sermon for the choir. They're the only ones interested in hearing it!

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 12:18 AM
reply to post by kozmo

many of us have worked for decades to build a career path and reputation in our respective industries that need to be protected.

Oh, I see, so your excuse du jour is that you are too prideful to actually get a job unless it's exactly like the one you had? You are willing to take the hit to your credit score and investments because of your pride?

Is that what you tell prospective employers about that gap in your resume? "I wasn't working because my reputation needs to be protected."

Is that what I gather?

So why beg for a karmic response to your ignorance?

Sounds to me as if you already are reaping karma's rewards for past ignorance.

[edit on 6/22/2010 by whatukno]

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 01:21 AM
My Email to Mr Rand...

Regarding your uninformed comment on those of us on Unemployment...
For EVERY job I send a resume and interview for there are at LEAST 350 OTHERs going after the same job. I am used to making 42K a year, have taken a job at A Starbucks for 8.25 per hour and they only offer PT hours..
I average 25 hrs a week @ 8.25 = $825.00 per month... Hmmm CAN YOU LIVE OFF THAT Realistically? I would LOVE to be working again FT without having to have Unemployment fill in the rest, BUT THERE JUST ARE NOT ENOUGH JOBS TO FILL THE DEMAND FOR THE UNEMPLOYED!!!!!... MANY people I know have been FORCED to take min wage jobs that have many yrs exp and TRY TO SERVIVE. HOW dare you people sitting up there getting paid off the backs of the average American and look down on the American people that have suffered the MOST from the decline in the economy and say that we are LAZY, DONT WANT TO WORK... Why don't YOU take a CUT IN pay to help the Economy? Are You willing to take less as YOU are Urging US TO DO. (Oh As so many of us have already had to do.)
Let me tell you, Campbells here in SAc had aprox 350 job openings for SEASONAL work... OVER 1500 people showed up.. YES SIR WE ARE TAKING LESSER JOBS IF WE CAN GET THEM...
Please do some research on the REALITIES of the JOB MARKET out there next time you wish to make an ignorant comment.

Yes, I live in Cali and gawd knows that 850.00 a month will barely get you a cardboard box in a back alley.. I am currently trying to find a 2nd and 3rd PT job... I am NOT afraid to work or to hold several jobs to be able to live somewhat comfortably... but gawd knows it's still brutal out there... and unfortunatly I'm not a young one any more (being 49 and female) with a respectable resume.....It's frustrating, disheartning and just plain sad.
I know thats its MUCH easier to get a job when you have a job...It's ALWAYS been that way...Employers leary of people with lapses in employment is nothing new.
But hey on the bright side, I get full benifits from Starbucks as long as I average 20hrs a week per quarter and free coffee..
And I continue in my job search.............

[edit on 22-6-2010 by Robbi]

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 02:11 AM
reply to post by Robbi

You are an example of what I was talking about before, a person who instead of moping around blaming everyone but themselves for their employment situation has decided to take matters into their own hands and swallow their pride and take a job no matter what.

That deserves respect. That is why Rand Paul's statement is absurd.

You have decided that a little bit of something is better than a whole lot of nothing, unlike some, who have decided to sit on their behinds all day posting how bad the government is instead of getting out there and finding work.


I have seen it all too often, the excuses, pride get's in the way for some people, some people won't take a temporary job to fill in the gaps because "I am better than that."

You meet these people from time to time, usually sleeping on a park bench with a copy of the wall street journal as a blanket, smelling of urine, with an empty bottle of old crow beside them. Savings and investments gone, home foreclosed on, usually along the way they develop some sort of dependency on drugs. They will give you a list of excuses why they aren't working, like they can't demean themselves by working at a car wash because they are a former Director of Sales and Marketing, and it's beneath them to take anything less.

Don't give up Robbi, in time the economy will get better and you will be able to ditch your job at Starbucks and I hope you get a job making more than 42k a year. Probably will be easier for you because you will be able to show a hiring manager that you have the tenacity to not just sit on your butt all day posting on an internet forum, but you actually rolled up your sleeves and got out there.

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 02:16 AM
According to the San Fran Fed economists, they claim government unemployment extensions are responsible for an additional .4% unemployment.

Of course, every statistic put out by government is a lie, therefore we can conclude the actual impact is probably somewhere around 10 times that amount.

The fact of the matter is, when you give handouts for job losses, people are not nearly as motivated to find new work as they would be without a safety net.

Common sense dictates this.

Of all the spending government does, unemployment benefits are some of the least offensive. Paul is right to demand that the lawmakers not add to the debt to pay them. Politicians should be cutting government spending like crazy right now in order to find the cash necessary to cover unemployment benefits.

Of course, they could cut the war on drugs and the 2 wars of aggression out and instead spend that money on unemployment and healthcare, but that would be ridiculous.

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 02:44 AM

Originally posted by Robbi
My Email to Mr Rand...
Regarding your uninformed comment on those of us on Unemployment...
that have suffered the MOST from the decline in the economy and say that we are LAZY, DONT WANT TO WORK... Why don't YOU take a CUT IN pay to help the Economy? Are You willing to take less as YOU are Urging US TO DO.
[edit on 22-6-2010 by Robbi]

I gather you haven't actually read BOTH articles. " HOW dare you people ( Rand Paul ) sitting up there getting paid off the backs of the average American and look down on the American people " Where did this come from ? The guy works, he isn't a member of Congress. He is a Doctor. I suspect that if you had attended Medical school you would currently still be gainfully employed in your chosen field. I get the whole anger thing, I really do. Just feel you're tossing darts in the wrong direction. But then again the OP's intent was a hit piece on RP.
Our current crop of aging alleged representatives are doing very well financially. Don't appear to have any reservations around giving Billions to their buddies or tossing hundreds of Billion to defense contractors. < THAT is insensitive and mocks all who are having a difficult time. ! You focus your anger on a person that has had NO HAND in our current economic downturn. How about ( OP included )
we direct our anger at the SOBs that actually got us into this mess.
Just a thought.

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 04:37 AM
Id take a job cleaning toilets for less than minimum wage if it were offered. Problem is, there are no job openings ANYWHERE. When they do open they're flooded with thousands of applicants. Its like a lottery. You can't just walk into any random place and ask if they have anything that needs to be done. They look at you like you're a space alien and then utter "uh no..." or they'll want to know your entire life story and for you to have a college degree to sweep floors and stock shelves.

Originally posted by TheFinalTruth14
reply to post by mothershipzeta

Are you saying it is impossible to live off of minimum wage? Tell that to people that live off of minimum wage.

really depends on a persons situation. You can't get a place to live on minimum wage here. You've gotta be making around $2000 a month to even be considered for a $500 a month place and on minimum wage you're gonna be lucky if you're even getting $500 because they barely let you work.

I know all you're probably hearing is "whine, whine, and more whine" but there it is.

[edit on 22-6-2010 by Raverous]

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 05:26 AM
reply to post by Jessicamsa

Yep, same in Michigan. There are, always have and always will be SOME people who will work the system but most people want to work.

Rand Paul is just another politician who shouldn't be a politician. Since he has no understanding as to what is going on around him, how can he represent his constituents ?? The answer is of course, he can't.

He's going to wipe out his fathers hard earned reputation in less then a year.

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 05:42 AM
A bit from a Canadian Perspective and to raise some other issues.

Many people can't just pick up and move because in many states,
you have to pay first & last months rent, plus damage deposit
and go through a credit check so you're looking at $1200 to $3000
just to even get started. And that's in Small Town USA!

In a truly EXPENSIVE CITY like where I live in Vancouver, Canada
Rents are in the $1200 to $2500 PER MONTH for a ONE BEDROOM.
Bachelor suites start at $750 and upwards. (US funds equivalent).
So it's MANY THOUSANDS just to get a living space much less a JOB!

Then you have our 12 percent sales tax and 17% to 48% Combined
Federal and Provincial (i.e. State) Income taxes depending upon earnings
AND then add the cost of food which is equivalent to $5.00 (US) for a gallon
of milk, $4.50 a pound of butter, Bread at $4.50 for a loaf
or $3.50 for the cheapest Wonderbread. A box of cereal is $7.00
Bag of rice is $30.00!!! Potatoes is $7 to $10/per 10 lbs bag
Even a can of coke is $1.50 a can. Movie tickets are $12.00 a show!

Car insurance is $1200 to $2400 per year.

Gas is $4.80 a gallon here!

So MANY people here in Vancouver get stuck in a financial rut
where they can't afford to move and can't even afford to change
jobs...Cash Bus fares are $5.00 for a 3-zone ONE WAY TRIP
or $2.50 for a single zone trip or about $5 to $10 per day to commute
by transit to work. if you get a 3-zone monthly bus pass it's $152/month
so even getting a different job could cost you big time just because of
transit costs. And because of the HORRENDOUS traffic which compares
to Hong Kong, we have the HIGHEST COMMUTE TIME
in North America at 2.5 hours by bus for a 20 mile trip at rush hour
or 1.25 hours by car ON AVERAGE.

You want to buy a house in Vancouver? GOOD LUCK!
AVERAGE price is now $778,000 for a two to 3 bedroom house
$350,000 to $600,000 for a 1 or 2 bedroom condo.

There IS NO SUCH THING as a detached house less than $375,000

If you're a renter, it's pretty bad too because utilities, cable
and Internet are mostly ON TOP OF the already high rents.
Wages are $9.00 to $14.00 per hour for the crappy jobs
but because of the expensive nature of this city it
is equivalent to about $4.00 to $6.00 per hour US
worth of purchasing power in an average small town USA.

On a societal note, Vancouver is high competitive and
big time. Our downtown east side is a horrendous example of
the utter devastation of drugs and poverty concentrated
into a square kilometer that makes East/South Central Gang-infested
LA or the worst parts of Brooklyn look positively Squeaky Clean
in comparison. That one square kilometre area must have
3 or 4 gunfights & driveby's a day!

While the rest of Vancouver IS clean & really quite nice,
it's a pretty rich city where absentee landlords and wealthy playboys
ply their money and get served by the worker bees who serve
them their $6 dollar mochas or $48.00 Steaks and $200 bottles of wine.

We stuff 3 million people in a space barely the size of a midwest USA town
surounded by mountains and water which means rents and house prices
will ALWAYS go up (and have been for the last 50 years!).

An average person can no longer make it here in Vancouver
on minimum wage even with TWO people working full time,
so we get a situation in Vancouver, where 5 to 12 people (YES 12!)
sleep in a 1 or 2 bedroom apartment and students sleep in tents
in the local woods by the Universities and ALMOST EVERY house owner
has 1 or 2 mortgage-helper basement suites renting out at
$800 to $1500/month + utilities for a place close enough
to walk or bike to your work or schooling.

You Americans have it really good there...most of you have NEVER
LIVED in a truly EXPENSIVE city where all you do is work, eat, sleep
and take the bus and do the whole cycle again just for a chance
to live near mountains and some water.

So much money goes into living here that MANY people
have NO resources to move or change jobs...they just don't
have the money so they're stuck in a permanent rut.

Me? I've had the good fortune of Shovelling 10 tonnes of Cow & Pig
manure a day in a LITERALLY CRAPPY JOB for a whole year! living
in a honest to goodness UNDERGROUND CAVE for 3 months at -30 degrees
celcius because there was no money for anything else and then moving
up a notch to living 12 people to a one bedroom apartment and saying
HOW MAY I HELP YOU for minimum wage for a few years to finally living
quite comfortably in a 3 bedroom suite designing AI software
and Video-supercomputers and a spacecraft or two.

So I can say that I have had an interesting job-world and living space
experience, so I see BOTH sides of the coin...I HAVE worked hard
and MADE something of myself...but I've also seen where ALL the hard
work in the world won't EVER get you out of the ghetto because you can
EASILY end up literally stuck in a rut due to lack of basic financial and
living space resources.

And if you're in that rut, the line between TRUE poverty and relative poverty
is RAZOR-THIN and it only takes ONE missed paycheck or a sudden
and/or unforeseen health issue or simple accident to send you to
the street and if you end up in in the Downtown East Side, you're pretty
much toast because of the environment, drugs and gangsters that
make MINCEMEAT out of EVERYONE who enters and stays longer
than a few hours!

Comparing ourselves to the USA, it's a lot more difficult to pick up and
move because we have one-tenth the population and whole lot less
number of jobs, AND we Canadians live in a BIG COUNTRY that has
a lot of places where winter is -35 to -50 degrees Celcius for 6 to 8
months of the year so camping out in a tent is NOT an option unless

Canada also has excessive credentialism where
even the Starbucks Barista is REQUIRED to have a 2 year
POST-SECONDARY diploma. If you want to make more than $30,000/year
you better have a 4 year degree in a REAL subject such as commerce
or sciences or medicine otherwise your resume or application gets thrown
in the garbage can. And there are almost NO manufacturing or construction
jobs unless you're in the biggest cities, so almost EVERYTHING is a service
job, government job or you're in management or
you have to work at McDonalds/Retail/Gas Station or are a Janitor!

It's a tough World out there...Thank God I'm Not Young Anymore.
I'd HATE to be just out of school in this economy!

[edit on 2010/6/22 by StargateSG7]

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 06:03 AM
reply to post by StargateSG7

then add the cost of food which is equivalent to $5.00 (US) for a gallon
of milk, $4.50 a pound of butter, Bread at $4.50 for a loaf
or $3.50 for the cheapest Wonderbread. A box of cereal is $7.00
Bag of rice is $30.00!!! Potatoes is $7 to $10/per 10 lbs bag
Even a can of coke is $1.50 a can. Movie tickets are $12.00

Jesus freaking CHRIST! Canadians get ripped OFF! No wonder chicks from Canada are skinny, it's not by choice, poor things are just starving to death!

Currently I gross, $16,640.00 minus taxes and child support, I bring home a little over 7k a year. Living within my means is difficult, but I do it. It takes hard work and sacrifice in order to maintain my budget, but through all of that I am thankful I have a full time job. In this economy, especially in Michigan I feel fortunate.

Now, when I was looking for this job, I didn't just simply hand in resume's to companies I wanted to work for. I handed in resumes, filled out applications, and asked for work EVERYWHERE! I didn't have a job, I needed a job, and so finding a job, was my full time job. I wasn't going to just wait for the perfect job to come along. I wanted a job NOW. So that's what I did, I didn't just sit there and say to myself, "If I take that job, my professional reputation will be hurt."

But I guess some would rather wait for the perfect opportunity than actually work.

[edit on 6/22/2010 by whatukno]

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 06:33 AM
reply to post by whatukno

While I agree that is people milking the system and that happens and will happen, you know the career welfare recipient not those that fall in bad days in their life I disagree with you on people that hold good jobs and then find themselves without one and milk the system.

See, my husband and I pay more in taxes that what some make in a year two times around, we have our standards of living, this is the life we build for our self our children and for our old age (my husband retirement account took a big hit during the financial crisis),.

If my husband loses his jobs right now all that income tax that he has paid out in his 40 years of working hard better be there to take care of us when he goes for unemployment and you bet we will milk right and hard as we have worked right and hard so somebody else reap the benefits of that tax.

So will that make my husband and I bad people? .

posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 06:36 AM

Originally posted by TheFinalTruth14
reply to post by mothershipzeta

Are you saying it is impossible to live off of minimum wage? Tell that to people that live off of minimum wage.

In some areas of the country, yes it is impossible. And no need to tell them...I'm sure they are more than away of how difficult it is.

See, it all depends on where you live, how you define "living," how large of a family you're trying to support, and whether or not you're fortunate enough to have a minimum wage job with medical benefits.

Every location and situation is different, and such flippant proclamations based on very few facts rarely serve us well as a nation.
The minimum wage was never intended for people who have families to support.

Please check this out to see how it varies from state to state. Poverty in America...Living Wage Calculator


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