Star Wars Weapons are Nothing compared to our new stuff

Lets see, you claim that I like to attack you? Hmmmm.... Lets see, in the space of this thread you have labeled me bafoon, arrogant, air head, and piss poor at geology and firearms (I may well be missing one or two).

Tell me ATS, can anyone say HYPOCRITE?

But back to the main point, is my CSM says, 7.62mm can do this, that's what I said, you say I'm wrong I show you a website that backs it up and now you attack me? Posted by hammerite

Yes I do say its wrong. Why? Whoever this guy is has no supporting evidence other than a couple of handdrawn sketches... I have 3 decades of solid personal experience saying that the 7.62mm round WILL NOT do what you claim it will!

Can you get a 7.62mm to flip on a bone? Anything is possible. I had it happen on a Moose at 120 meters when it hit a shoulder bone (the whole bone was as thick as a mans thigh) Will it fishhook inside a persons torso? Not a chance.

my CSM killed plenty of people to damn well know first hand what the 7.62mm round CAN do. Posted by hammerite

I have a coworker who is a retired USMC scout sniper... I called him up for just this post. For the record, he claims over a dozen kills in Somalia using an M-25 at between 600-800 meters, and at least half a dozen kills in Panama with a Rem 700 .300WinMag out to 1000 meters. He has a good bit of experience with the M-16A4 (hates it about as much as I do, although he does own an AR-15, totally custom built though). He echos my sentiments, 7.62mm does NOT fishhook inside a torso. Also, when asked what he would use if the $h@t hit the fan, excluding his sniper rifles, he indicated the FNFAL 7.62mm, due to enhanced penetration, range, and overall stopping power. (Not to mention far better reliability than the M-16)

my source I gave to you said it has 6inches of penetration before the shockwave causes it to tumble. 6inches is USUALLY thicker than most anyone. Posted by hammerite

Would be a really damn skinny guy.... also, what about cross torso shots? Shots at an up or down angle? What if he were bent or leaning one way? The shockwave is what causes the temporary crush channel, causes severe internal laceration and hemmorage, but does NOT flip the bullet or make it curve inside the body. IF that were so, why dont we have ANY photos of it doing so in ballistic gellatin?

You'd be amazed how fast your emotions can "tumble" out of control when you try to argue a point that you are not necissarily correct on. Posted by hammertie

Your absolutely correct... would this be an explaination why you are now stalking me on all threads?

Sniping (which seems to be your preferred way of fighting) is nearly useless on the battle field. Posted by hammerite

Please reread the paragraph regarding my associate... he fell out of his chair laughing when he read this statement of yours....

A minigun will make short work of a platoon, a snipper, would be lucky to kill 6 before he is blasted out of his hole by a mortar or grenade Posted by hammertie

My associate loved this statement as well.... anyone with even the slightest hint of combat knowledge would know the fallacy of this statement... First rule of modern combat, DO NOT BUNCH UP. You stay spread out, very dispersed so that a large number is not taken out by a machine gun or other concentrated firepower.

He also wanted me to relate a story from Panama... Upon making landfall on the beach, his force recon platoon progressed less than 300 meters from the beach when they were ambushed by Panamanian forces on two sides. His platoon was forced to litterally dig foxholes under fire (since cover was virtually nonexistant where they were) while he largely suppressed the enemy with his sniper fire (fortunately, the enemy forces were not very substantial, and lacked such things as mortars, but they were being fired upon by 3 GPMGs) Although he was pinned down under heavy fire, with 3 machine guns in superior positions, he was able to kill all 3 machine gun crews, thereby allowing his platoon to break cover and make it into the tree line.

You'd be amazed how fast your emotions can "tumble" out of control when you try to argue a point that you are not necissarily correct on. Posted by hammerite

Hmmm... you are very upset about something....

You feel insulted by my statements? Lets take a look...

screw your marksmanship you pu$$y, there's no honor in guns Posted by hammertie

I don't sit there and count them off like a bafoon Posted by hammertie


If your information on weapons is as good as your geology, you are pretty piss poor. Posted by hammerite

Oh and by the way, I noticed that you very pointedly DID NOT answer my questions....


And just what kind of geological experience do you have? When was the last time you strapped on an Estwing? (Do you even know what an Estwing is?) What kind of geological experience do you have? Ever mapped a fault line? Ever delineated an aquifer? Ever delineated a sand/gravel unit in 3D? Ever mapped an anticline trap? Do you even know what I am talking about? Posted by DragonRider

Hammerite, I honestly do not know or understand (or really care) why you are getting so cranked up about something that your only apparent knowledge and experience lay in reading Soldier of Fortune or watching Rambo a few dozen times. If you ever want to learn a few things in reality, the real world, regarding firearms, hunting, geology, or anything else that I do know about, contact me, I would be more than happy to give you some real useful field experience.

Dont worry, I know its hard, but you will eventually understand that you dont know everything in the world, and its ok if you dont...

But, leave the 'tude at home...

Your questions are also irrelevant, what does a brand of tools have to do with this thread? What are you even talking about anymore.

It would be easier if you'd just lable 1-2-and-3 what your points are because all this bantering about "he said this, that guy laughed" is making it really hard to understand what you were even getting at.

It seemed at first you just seemed concerned with technology, feeling that snipping would be best.

I mentioned a fact you still don't seem to understand that word, that 7.62mm does tumble in certain conditions.

Then I make a point using HISTORY which any good General would do, that snippers alone don't work, because this is what the whole Japanese army was basically.

They all used a bolt-action rifle, there were very few machine guns and those weapons were piss-poor.

And somehow you seem to shrug this off by bringing in your little friend who says that I'm completely wrong, and history is completely wrong, that Snippers just save the day any day?

Bah.

So if you could, just what the hell were you even talking about?

I don't have any *'tude* it's just I've been here a long time too and can really see why William is already putting up an ATS tombstone.

Because people like you "pooh pooh" written facts, history, other people's accounts, and stray off on irrelevant tangents (geology was in OTHER thread), and when someone points out to you how you are wrong.

"Oh that guy just smoking a crack pipe cause I done dare shot me a moosen with me big gun and my bullet gone shootin' through his moosen head."

There used to be a time when someone would say:

"1) This is what I think
2) Here's why I think this
3) Now let's recap what I just went over"

I'm not going to give up so fast as Will though, it's not time to bury the dead yet, I still think I can mold you into a propper researcher, who realizes that what you experience in life, isn't always the norm.

Again I presented information on the 7.62mm round, it states most anything you'd need to know about it, and you just say "he's smoking crack because I've never seen that, no one I know has seen it".

Well he's not smoking crack, it only happens "occasionally". People I know have seen it happen, so I suppose they just are seeing things? Because of course you HAVE to be exactly right and everyone else is off.

Make it easy man, acknowledge that there is information stating the 7.62mm can tumble, you don't have to say it ever has, just that it CAN, that's all.

Then let's get some points set up, because really I look forward to an interesting conversation with you, but first I need to know what the hell you are thinking, because we lost that somewhere along the way.

Well guys ive had a pretty intersting day & work thanks to you two. Im not gonna pick sides i hope you can sort out your differnces wotever thay are.

My own weapon experiance is rather limited being from England but i was in the Army cadets so ive fired LSW's , SA 80's & the cadet gp rifle (if u wonna see waste of money look up the last rifle).

Anyways ive found this site because i was intrested in finding out myself which was the better round.

hope you sort this thing out.

www.globalsecurity.org...

It seems that Hammerite is unable to conduct business on a discussion forum without getting into fights.

This is your warning.

Thread locked by me.