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Obama : No border security until amnesty passes

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posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by ANNED
 


What I was referring to is legally. I have no doubt some people, legal and illegal, vote when they aren't supposed to be eligible to do so.

Until somebody comes up with a better way of voting, you can bet that there will continue to be voting irregularities.




posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 03:36 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Fact is, there are no statistics on illegal immigrant crime vs citizen crime. Neither opinion can be proven at this time.



Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Fact is ... illegal immigrant crime vs citizen crime ...



Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
... illegal immigrant...



Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
... illegal ...


As you pointed out, they are ILLEGAL immigrants and have ALL committed a crime against the rules of our society.

The ONLY thing that can be proven in this conversation is that ALL illegal immigrants have committed a crime. The same cannot be said about all citizens and legal immigrants.

Am I not making sense?



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by cavscout
As you pointed out, they are ILLEGAL immigrants and have ALL committed a crime against the rules of our society.

The ONLY thing that can be proven in this conversation is that ALL illegal immigrants have committed a crime. The same cannot be said about all citizens and legal immigrants.

Am I not making sense?


Being illegal in the US is not a crime but an administrative infraction that is why it carries no jail time.

It may be black and white to many but your legal system allows for many shades of gray.

If I remember correctly under the old immigration laws (pre 1984). A person had to prove that they had lived continuously at least 7 years in the US to be eligible for a change of status (green card).

You had to prove that you had been in violation of this administrative rule (living illegally in the US) to be granted permanent resident alien status. How is that for backwards?

[edit on 21-6-2010 by daskakik]



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by DesertDweller
This is impeachable as a dereliction of duty.
One of the primary duties for the POTUS is securing borders!
HE is blackmailing congress foe his ideology while lives are at risk and a
Foreign force has taken over our soil!


I was going to say exactly that! Complete dereliction of duty, perhaps even sedition. This is not only impeachable but may be an imprisonable offense. Why the frag isn't he being arrested and tried???



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by TheFinalTruth14
 


OK.

First, they submit application. The application will take years to get approved due to various reasons. Then once they get their card, they must wait 5 years in order to apply for citizenship.

Of course, many choose not to go for citizenship.
Let us not forget that Chicago-style politics relies on getting votes from dead people.

I don't think the Obama administration would let lack of citizenship get in the way of voting.....

As long as you vote for them!



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 11:03 AM
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not saying i support it- but if amnesty was passed then im sure part of the terms would include citizenship for anyone who stood in line.

That being said i was born and raised in arizona, mesa to be exact.

Crime, in general, is a result of poverty not immigration status.

And its not just mexicans either, its people from all of central and parts of south america.

Maybe if instead of exploiting these third world countries for cheap labor and resources, with the help of the puppet democracies we installed, we treated them like neighbors then there would be less poverty and little to no reason for people to flee to the states.

I think everyone can agree that the most crimes, violence, etc. is perpetrated and perpetuated by the drug trade and its constituents and supporters.(dont forget the cia- "freeway" ricky ross anybody?)

So how about we start with a broad legalization/taxation program on all currently illicit substances. Its about time people took their freedom back.

And i understand the arguments against it, but the fact is, currently legal drugs do far more harm/killing than the illegal ones.

I can also say that before i turned 21/18 (this year actually) it was much easier to obtain an illegal drug such as cannabis or coc aine than it was for me to get my hands on alcohol/cigarettes.

But in the end it all boils down to this, people will do what they like, no matter what the law is. the sooner people accept this and stop trying to force their views on everybody else the sooner society will improve.



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by TheFinalTruth14
 



They want amnesty for illegal immigrants so they can secure more votes in the 2012 election.


:shk:

Don't you know that even if they gave them some of permission to stay, they wouldn't be able to vote. One has to be a US citizen in order to that. And that process itself takes time.



The questions it seems that neither you or any other appeasers/apologists for the illegals want to answer are:

If you grant all these illegals amnesty, what about the next wave of millions that will see this as their best chance?

And if state/local governments are already straining or breaking under the financial load of the current group of illegals, can't you see that the next wave of illegals will be the breaking point?

Which would be beneficial to who - with the basic government services citizens have a right to expect curtailed or gone, along with the government handouts many illegals came here to get?

Semper fi? How about also being semper fi (always faithful) to your own country?

[edit on 6/21/2010 by centurion1211]



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 04:27 PM
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As I suspected, Obama vehemently denies Kyl's accusation.

Source



The White House Monday rejected Kyl's account.

“The President didn’t say that and Senator Kyl knows it," White House communications director Dan Pfeiffer told ABC News. "There are more resources dedicated toward border security today than ever before, but, as the President has made clear, truly securing the border will require a comprehensive solution to our broken immigration system.”


reply to post by cavscout
 


I understand that crossing the border illegally is illegal.
I was addressing ADDITIONAL crime committed after they are here. And you know that.



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 12:21 PM
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Sen Kyl should offer to take a lie detector test, somebody is lying about what was said...

Sounds like Treason to me.



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


While you're all at it, please also defend obama on this latest outrage that his administration is allowing to happen on American soil..

ATS thread

After you all read the article on this thread, is it any wonder at all why Arizona has decided it needs to take matters into its own hands?

And BH, any of this qualify to you as an "additional crime" by illegals?






[edit on 6/22/2010 by centurion1211]



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 01:23 PM
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How I enjoy the silly liberal mind. All you libs on here are justifying crime committed by illegals by saying, "Oh, everyone does it, Americans do it, so it's okay." Really, it's okay to murder, kidnap, steal, etc., because Americans do it? You justify the crimes of illegals, but why? Why do you imply it's okay for them to commit crime? I really see no sensible reason why you wouldn't be outraged that people are entering our country illegally for the sake of committing crime. They come here solely to commit crime because they know they can get away with it, because libs like you allow it. You liberals have become so un-American I can't even call you Americans anymore. I just can't think of a reason why you justify their actions. Why are you all okay with this? Is it because you desperately need to satisfy your smug progressive ideals?



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by make the blind see
 


Why is Arizona only having all these violence problems on the US side of the border? I don't hear people from NM, CA, or Texas saying that all this violence is happening because of mexicans on the US side of the border

I live on the border in Texas and our news is NOT filled with violence from illegal aliens....

What's wrong with Arizona?



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 11:43 PM
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www.youtube.com...



2004, Obama wants to trade border security for amnesty bill.



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 01:39 AM
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reply to post by jam321
 


Ahem..... uh .. Just so you know, the entire point of amnesty is to waive the citizenship requirements ... they simply "become" citizens so to speak. The only thing they will need to do is have a SS number created and apply for a BC.



I can't say whether or not amnesty is going to be on the tables, the source in the OP is dubious.. but I believe both parties want amnesty.. it's just a matter of who will do it. We all thought Bush was going to until the hayday over Minuteman going to the border because bush refused to stop the flood.. then the economy collapsed and everyone forgot about illegals.. now it's likely Obama will do it.. simply because the last 2 presidents wanted to.. seems as if it's what the Oligarchs want.

Edit to add: I doubt they would ever consider Amnesty for votes.. Considering Republicans and Democrats alike have supported Amnesty for a long time, it would appear that it's for other reasons.. mostly involving money and cheap labor. Most Hispanics are family oriented, most are Catholic, I'd assume most would be "Conservative", though may support Democrats because they are not anti-immigrant.

[edit on 6/23/2010 by Rockpuck]



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 02:29 AM
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Originally posted by funkmob_starchild
How I enjoy the silly liberal mind. All you libs on here are justifying crime committed by illegals by saying, "Oh, everyone does it, Americans do it, so it's okay." Really, it's okay to murder, kidnap, steal, etc., because Americans do it? You justify the crimes of illegals, but why? Why do you imply it's okay for them to commit crime? I really see no sensible reason why you wouldn't be outraged that people are entering our country illegally for the sake of committing crime. They come here solely to commit crime because they know they can get away with it, because libs like you allow it. You liberals have become so un-American I can't even call you Americans anymore. I just can't think of a reason why you justify their actions. Why are you all okay with this? Is it because you desperately need to satisfy your smug progressive ideals?


And I enjoy the bolder brain Regressive mind just as much I assure you.
Yes, I allow crime, at least once a week I volunteer as a get away driver
for Mexican illegals to knock off white business's, for FUN!!!

You have created what you have stated, purely an act of your emotions and scattered cerebella peddles shaking about in the cranium. Your rhetoric is no different than the rhetoric pressed on the Irish, Germans, Norwegians; it is easy to distill the humanity out of a group if you can pair them with the devil. Wedge for a vote, Terrorists,
Guns, Environment, Freedumbs; this particular one is a great ploy when it is used.


Being a horrible Satan worshiping liberal mind, I advocate securing the boarder 100% against the orders of my master... at the same time, I do not want to see my American friends #@$@# over by this crusade. We can achieve both goals - the whole lot of them do not need to be demonized to achieve an objective...I remind you Hispanics are typically christ driven, produce vibrant free market communities, not to mention family oriented. I would think that conservatives could capitalize... but then again, "liberals think with their hearts" was likely penned by a projecting conservative.


[edit on 23-6-2010 by Janky Red]

[edit on 23-6-2010 by Janky Red]



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 10:36 AM
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I read an article that confirmed that Senator Jon Kyle was in fact lying about what was said at the meeting between the President and himself.

Jon confirmed that his words were taken out of context and that he wasn't talking about the administration at all, just the "left" in general.


Typical GOP, defend the lie for a month then retract it

Article
article 2
article 3



[edit on 26-6-2010 by Tartarspoon]

[edit on 26-6-2010 by Tartarspoon]



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by make the blind see
 



we're constantly reminded of the troubles the immigrants from the South side bring. There's the obvious ones, like gang wars and drugs and weapons and death; but they also break into houses, set cars on fire, abduct children, and after doing these things, some of them actually run back to Mexico to avoid arrest.


Are you going to sit there and tell me that Americans don't do some of the the same things you mentioned above?



Yeah i see millions of americans crossing into Mexico doing all that stuff.



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Actually they don't just "become citizens" they gain resident alien status (Green Card) then they have to wait at least five years before they can begin the paperwork to become naturalized citizens.


Undocumented immigrants may adjust status to lawful permanent residence once they pay $5,000 in fees and fines and their head of household returns to their home country.


Immigration Amnesty



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 06:27 PM
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Amnesty? Sure I'll support amnesty, but first I want amnesty to get the # out of this country and move somewhere else. If you would rather have mexicans working for you then let me leave. They can have my house too ..i'll never own it anyway. But you can just hand it to them.

Try moving to the uk. LOL. just try it. Try moving anywhere if you're an american citizen. Please just try it. We're not aloud to leave.

[edit on 26-6-2010 by AndrewJay]



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 



US citizens commit crimes here, too. What makes immigrants' crimes worse?


The fact that crime has a large cost to it, from the human impact to the arrest, prosecution, and imprisonment.

Costs that we would not have to pay if they would not come here illegally.



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