Revelation; The Seven Churches (have been warned-pt1)

I do now.......I'll go look for it.........just replied to this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The people in the video offered in this thread just scare the life out of me, they have strayed from the Word completely in my opinion.

Originally posted by AmosGraber

The people in the video offered in this thread just scare the life out of me, they have strayed from the Word completely in my opinion.

Now that I've looked, I agree with you.
They don't have the right idea about how God works.

I don't know which one of your threads to post this in as it all ties in together. I want to point out the dual natures in revelations.

It starts off with a letter to the 7 churches. Churches are bodies that belong to God. However these 7 bodies have obstacles to overcome. These obstacles are mountains.

matthew 21:21 ...but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

the harlot with the name of mystery babylon on her forehead sits on 7 mountains.

a Lamb stood on mount sion with the 144000 having his fathers name written on their foreheads.

1 Corinthians 15:53
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality

the one true church is the bride of Christ and yet while it remains in this fleshy world, it is also the harlot of mystery babylon.

God is calling his people out of her (the worldly israel), they must overcome death to become the bride of the Lamb.

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world

1 John 5:5
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God

The churches are warned to repent and overcome

S&F preach on preach on following this one

reply to post by iamnot

Thank you for those observations.
There's also the very interesting fact that half the images of judgement in Revelation come from OT prophecies of God's judgement against his own people. There's more than one way of taking that.
I don't know if you've seen the attached thread, which looks at that theme in relation to ch6;
The sins of the church?





[edit on 6-8-2010 by DISRAELI]

reply to post by IndianaOps

Thank you for the encouragment.
I'm currently finishing off a group of threads on ch13, then I'll move on to the church's reaction to the Beast.



[edit on 6-8-2010 by DISRAELI]

reply to post by DISRAELI


I have always stood against churches - being as they are brainwashing tools.

What I want to ask you is - what are the 7 churches, and are there any left?

reply to post by catwhoknows

All the churches named by John are in one area on the west coast of what is now Turkey.
So if any Christians remain in those places, they're now surrounded by Islamic culture.

reply to post by DISRAELI


A lot of people are surrounded by Islamic culture - namely Britian and America.

I have nothing against Islamic culture, unless it is forcing people.

I think most women and children of the Islamic culture are innocent.

reply to post by catwhoknows

The point I was making was only that the churches would not be as prominent as they used to be.
I was trying to answer the question "Are the churches still there?"
Without actually knowing whether the churches were still there, so I had to hedge my bets.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Yes, I appreciate your point - but I would really like to know the 7 churches.

I will try to list them.

Christian
Catholic
Presbyterian
Methodist
Scientology (is that a church)?

So, I am trying to get to 7.

Originally posted by catwhoknows

Yes, I appreciate your point - but I would really like to know the 7 churches.

I will try to list them.

Christian
Catholic
Presbyterian
Methodist
Scientology (is that a church)?

So, I am trying to get to 7.

John is using "church" in the sense of "local community".
He lists them as Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.

The other good definition of the word "church" is that they are the "blessed company of all faithful people" (that comes from an Anglican prayer). In other words, every Christian all over the world, whatever denomination he belongs to, is by definition a member of "the Church".

You're obviously using the popular definition, that the individual organisations called "denominations" are "churches". That isn't really a good definition- it's misleading, and it confuses the issue. I can see no reason why John should have been talking about denominations.

As for the ones you name- the word "Christian" applies to all parts of the Church, but Scientology is not Christian.









[edit on 6-8-2010 by DISRAELI]

reply to post by DISRAELI


I have an issue here - if church means those who believe - yes.

If church means - what mankind has decided - no.

So I will carry on, believing in Jesus, and believing in His teachings.

reply to post by catwhoknows

In principle, I would have to agree with what you've just said.
The catch is probably in the details.

reply to post by DISRAELI


There is no catch with Jesus - either you believe in love, forgiveness and gentleness.

Or you believe in war, hatred and killing.

revelation is not about christian churches,
but about all religions, they all belong to god.
they are all dual, being used to see life as one (god, 7 eyes)
or made to divide (dragon, 7 heads)

divisions a time ,also in times.

]

[edit on 6-8-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds

Revelation is a Christian book, which belongs to the Christian faith.
Part of the evidence for that is the way that ch5 is focussed upon "the Lamb" (which means Jesus, the risen Lord) as the driving force behind everything that is happening.
And of course that's the point of the fact that the book is introduced by a vision of Christ himself

revelation is not a christian book,
just a the quran is not a muslim book.
they are used by the religions that grow
out of traditions around it.

christian and muslim are other words for:
in their right usage:
believers in One Life, the Law.
(other word: Israel or the keepers of the Promise)

in their wrong usage:
divided in the world, attached to location even.
folowing traditions and holding onto past
interpretations.



[edit on 6-8-2010 by pasttheclouds]

the lamb is not the same thing as jesus,
even when jesus was a lamb and became the All,
other will join him in the All.
That All is Christ or Maitreya, is the Lamb and are the "jews" (in its correct usage of the symbolic word)

[edit on 6-8-2010 by pasttheclouds]

Originally posted by pasttheclouds
revelation is not a christian book,

Revelation is a book focussed upon Jesus.
It takes it for granted- and in fact this is the central premise of the book- that there is a state of hostility between those committed to the Creator God and the power of other religions.