Antarctica home to the legendary Atlantis ?

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posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
The Sahara has not always been a desert you know.
There is evidence that shows it was a green heaven during man's existence.


indeed!

but that doesn't really mean anything in regard to Antarctica - deserts have variable lifespans, depending on location and neighboring land forms, etc.

the Atacama desert is the dryest desert on Earth and they think it's been that dry, in some places, for up to 20 million years, maybe even 40 million!

BBC News Link

that
my mind!

here's another interesting link that i found, just now:

Snapshot Of Past Climate Reveals No Ice In Antarctica Millions Of Years Ago

40 mya is a bit out of our discussion range, isn't it?



surely the continents were not at all the same as they are now?!?




posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 02:43 PM
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S&F! anyone ever heard of MU the motherland? I've stimbled across this before. Not sayin' it's real or anything, but this thread reminded me of MU. Hopefully this will reach the right people. just search up Mu the motherland on google. there should be a free movie and some other info for anyone who is interested.



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by queenannie38
 


40 million is a bit off yes.

There is also evidence this was the case 250.000 years ago and according to the sources I found even as recent as 2000 to 4000 years ago.

Why is it so hard to imagine ?

When you go to your dentist and a routine control shows you have got a hole in your teeth. You believe him, right ?
Or do wait until the teeth starts hurting ?

Not pulling your leg here but I thought this perfectly explains what I try to suggest.
So. Don't shoot me for it.
please



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by Sinter Klaas
 


If you've read my posts then you know that I do not dismiss theories. I dismiss ludicrous, baseless claims or ideas as you've put it. I do not scoff. I put forward a reason that I dispute the claims. And I do provide proof when asked.

I would point out that in this thread I made it clear that there are open areas on Antarctica where there is little ice or snow. That is something that seems to have been overlooked. The entire continent is not covered by endless thick ice sheets. If I wanted to simply scoff at these claims I'd have avoided mentioning that fact.

so what evidence do you want?
1. The first civilizations were in warm climates?
2. Antarctica has been an impossible agricultural place for millennia?
3. That Antarctic ocean is a dangerous route to navigate?

Let's do all 3.

Part 1. Notice that the warm climate was first. Other places listed at this website include other warm areas.
Cradle of Civilization

This postulates that there is no single "cradle", but several independent developments of civilization, of which the Near Eastern Neolithic was the first.


Here in part 2 we learn that Antarctica has been a frozen land isolated from other continents for at least 20 million years.
Plate Tectonics


The climate of modern Antarctica is extreme. Located over the South Pole and in total darkness for six months of the year, the continent is covered by glacial ice to depths in excess of 3 km in places. Yet this has not always been the case. 50 Ma ago, even though Antarctica was in more or less the same position over the pole, the climate was much more temperate – there were no glaciers and the continent was covered with lush vegetation and forests. So how did this extreme change come about?

The modern climate of Antarctica depends upon its complete isolation from the rest of the planet as a consequence of the Antarctic Circumpolar Current that completely encircles Antarctica and gives rise to the stormy region of the Southern Ocean known as the roaring forties. The onset of this current is related to the opening of seaways between obstructing continents. Antarctica and South America were once joined together as part of Gondwana and were the last parts of this original supercontinent to separate. By reconstructing continental positions from magnetic and other features of the sea floor in this region, geologists have shown that the Drake Passage opened in three phases between 50 Ma and 20 Ma, as illustrated in Figure 32. At 50 Ma there was possibly a shallow seaway between Antarctica and South America, but both continents were moving together. At 34 Ma the seaway was still narrow, but differential movement between the Antarctic and South American Plates created a deeper channel between the two continents that began to allow deep ocean water to circulate around the continent. Finally, at 20 Ma there was a major shift in local plate boundaries that allowed the rapid development of a deep-water channel between the two continental masses.



Today, the Antarctic Circumpolar Current is the strongest deep ocean current and its strength is responsible for the ‘icehouse’ climate that grips the planet. The opening of the Drake Passage had both a local and a global effect, initially cooling the climate of Antarctica from temperate to cold and ultimately playing an important role in the change from global ‘greenhouse’ conditions 50 Ma ago to the global ‘icehouse’ of today.


Here is part 3.
Southern Ocean - wikipedia

Sea-temperatures vary from about −2 to 10 °C (28 to 50 °F). Cyclonic storms travel eastward around the continent and frequently become intense because of the temperature-contrast between ice and open ocean. The ocean-area from about latitude 40 south to the Antarctic Circle has the strongest average winds found anywhere on Earth. In winter the ocean freezes outward to 65 degrees south latitude in the Pacific sector and 55 degrees south latitude in the Atlantic sector, lowering surface temperatures well below 0 degrees Celsius; at some coastal points intense persistent drainage winds from the interior keep the shoreline ice-free throughout the winter.


Southern Ocean - World Facts

huge icebergs with drafts up to several hundred meters; smaller bergs and iceberg fragments; sea ice (generally 0.5 to 1 meter thick) with sometimes dynamic short-term variations and with large annual and interannual variations; deep continental shelf floored by glacial deposits varying widely over short distances; high winds and large waves much of the year; ship icing, especially May-October; most of region is remote from sources of search and rescue



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by Tnewguy
 


That's weird since Plato never produced a map of Atlantis. If you take a look at the continent of Atlantis you'll notice that it does not match the ancient maps.



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by Sinter Klaas
 



There is also evidence this was the case 250.000 years ago and according to the sources I found even as recent as 2000 to 4000 years ago.

It's completely laughable to think that Antarctica was ice free even a million years ago. It has been a cold wasteland at least 20 million years. See my previous post.

You asked me for evidence for all of my claims. Now I'd like to see your evidence for these claims. If it is Hancock or Hapgood just state their name. That's good enough for me to know that the evidence is worthless.



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by stereologist
 


Maybe you should read the OP

You will find I included the source as well as a link.

How disappointing you assume it comes from Hancock or whatever, without taking a look at the source I provided.
Don't get me wrong. You are more then welcome to disproof the source.
ATS has a big name when it comes to filter out the truth from the rubbish. It is in fact a reason for me post things where I know, I can not proof right from wrong.

As I said, not everybody knows what you know.
It seems that you do not even try to learn what others have to offer that you might not know.

If you decide to actually look and you can proof the source is wrong or a hoax. I'm going to be the first one to thank you.

Serbstra was also kind enough to post an additional source for the 250.000 years.

Ohh... I don't remember anyone of the sources talking about the entire continent.
Which makes sense because we know for a fact that the ice sheet is at least as old as the ice core samples tell us at the dozen or so place they were taken from the ice.

QueenAnnie posted a link with a chart of these locations.



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by Sinter Klaas
 


What you done is not link directly to the evidence you reference. You provided a link that has to be clicked, which leads to many possible links which have to be clicked.

Try to be a little less indirect. It makes it less likely to cause confusion.

There are multiple places talking about a warmer Antarctica. Is this the one you are interested in:
When The Antarctic Was Warm
This is just an opinion piece based on an article. Or maybe you were referring to one of the other links to links to links.

Could you clarify what you are referring to?



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 06:25 PM
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reply to post by stereologist
 


Ahh... So we both can do better.


Anyway.

Yes it was and this one. But here they talk about 40.000 years ago.

In the future, please ask when I've made something vague or something.

You say opinion based. I don't consider mentioning archaeological evidence as an opinion.

The article has a clear reference to its source and the author of this one has included a comment section. If the whole thing is an opinion I don't expect a comment reference.



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by stereologist
 



How do we know what would cause the Ocean Conveyor Belt to stop? The Younger Dryas period of colder temperatures, which occurred about 12 thousand years ago, occurred because of the shutdown of the Ocean Conveyor Belt (Joyce 2007). In An Inconvenient Truth, Al Gore states that the ocean overturning ceased because of the melted glaciers in modern-day Canada and the United States (now the Great Lakes), which spilled over into the North Atlantic, which is a critical region of overturning


Warm and cold water will stop moving.
This would effect global currents, right ?

The sea current that circles Antarctica has got to be effected as well. It also stopped or slowed down or there could be some kind of interaction with the other oceans.

Warmer waters could have flowed all the way to land for example.



Temperature change for the past 150,000 years at the VOSTOK site in Antarctica, based on the deuterium proxy found in ice cores.

Link

In the picture you can see at the right pink column. The average temperature lies close or around 0 degrees Celsius. With a high rise 9000 or 8000 years ago.
These temperatures are measured at or near lake Vostok. Which is a long way from South Africa and even further from South America. Not to mention pretty far inland.




Especially when sea level was lower back then.


These are averages and this mean that 200 maybe 300 years or so the weather could allow some agriculture. Inuit lived on a diet of sea food and thrived..

Records show Antarctica usually does the opposite of the Arctic in big lines. So to say.

The thermohaline circulation abruptly stopped around 11.000 years ago in the younger dryas period. ( Large amounts of freshwater in the northern ice sea probably because of the melting land ice decreased the salinity of the water to a point it did not sink anymore ) caused a warming in the Southern ice sea up to 3 degrees. That is a huge change. This could get the summer temperature high enough for a while.

Our civilization only exists since the black plague diminished Europe and we basically had to start over. But for the colonization of man to a point they can be compared to the Minoans for example could happen faster.

So... My conclusions.

Intelligence. Yes
Within the existing time line. yes
Climate change. Yes
Warmer period. yes
Ice core data says. plausible.
More land do to lower sea level. yes
Needed time to develop. plausible.

Overall : Plausible.

A civilization does not have to be super advanced either to leave their stories and stuff.
The stories can be exaggerated over time a lot.



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by Sinter Klaas
 


i don't think you are realizing just how much ice is layered upon layered, down there.

ice that is building up at an excruciatingly slow rate!

like i said, we don't know for sure, absolutely
but we do have to take into consideration certain things which are established according to a few things that we do know nearly if not all the way absolutely.

sciencedaily.com says that Antarctica covers an area of almost 14 million square km and contains 30 million cubic km of ice.

like has already been mentioned, there are parts of Antarctica that are free from snow and ice - and when times of de-glaciation occurs, it doesn't mean that all the ice must be gone, either.

so there is a feasible possibility somewhere in between, i think.



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 08:02 PM
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Didn't the Nazis came to antartica before and during world war 2?



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by queenannie38
 


I think we are pretty much in agreement.


The difference is that we are in the middle but still on the other side of the fence.
Right ?



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 09:00 PM
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reply to post by Sinter Klaas
 


What IO meant about opinion is that this statement does not attempt to report on the article but makes comments about the article such as "A somewhat politically incorrect observation appears in this article." There is also the comment at the end.

To link to this article is the same as linking to one of my own posts even if I contain a link to an article. Getting to the original article is important.

Here is the link that might be the link that you were interested in that was linked to by a link in the OP.
When The Antarctic Was Warm

The analyses of ocean-floor sediments deposited recently by melting Antarctic ice sheets reveal that these ice sheets are only about 2,000 years old.


Here are more comments on the article.
Antarctic Sediments

Ocean-floor sediments drilled from Antarctic regions recently covered by ice shelves suggest that those shelves were only 2,000 years old. This finding could compel scientists to reassess whether the current destruction of polar ice is due primarily to human-caused global warming.


That's a very different take on the article isn't it? That is why I say opinion. It seems that the warm Antarctic opinion piece was a huge mistake in it. It says, "these ice sheets are only about 2,000 years old." No, no, no.

The original article never says that. What it says is that there is evidence that the channel between the Antarctic Peninsula and James Ross Island may have been open 2000 years ago. That does not mean there was open land. When the glaciers cover up that open area, the ice that does it does not have to be 2000 years old. It is very old ice that slides out and covers up the open waters. That's the difference between permanent ice and glaciers: glaciers move.

Again from the Antarctic sediments link.

Their analysis suggests that from about 2,000 to 5,000 years ago, much of the channel was seasonally open water.


From another source.
All Cracked Up from the Heat?

Sediment cores have been collected from the ocean bottom in an area, just north of Larsen B, exposed by ice-shelf disintegrations in the early 1990s. The cores indicate that the shelf there was only about 2,000 years old (SN: 9/8/01, p. 150: www.sciencenews.org...). However, a preliminary analysis of sediment layers in cores taken in December 2001 from seafloor near Larsen B suggests that this shelf has been in place for more than 12,000 years, says Eugene W. Domack, a marine geologist at Hamilton College in Clinton, N.Y. He'll present those results at an international workshop on Antarctic climate variability hosted by his college next week.


Prince Gustav Channel

It appears that before and after this period, the channel remained closed. The period when the channel was open coincides with a period of local warming supported by data gathered from land-based studies of lake sediments and ancient, abandoned penguin rookeries. With the return of colder conditions about 1900 years ago, the Prince Gustav ice shelf reformed until its recent retreat.


It seems that this was a local event affecting the covered water portion of the Antarctic ice. And it was a short-lived event.



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by stereologist
 


Sweet


It seems like my source. Imagined a bit more.

When they talk about warm periods they say around the whole Peninsula not just the channel.

I've posted in a previous post there have been warmer periods which could result in less ice.

The reason for them to come up with two dates is a no brainer. They should do more surveys and tests.

A warmer and more humid climate would mean more ice melting. Glaciers would grow do to more downfall.

Still... There have been times that there was less ice.

People will not believe me when I post 20 million years ago. Next time play along please :p

This was fun. I learned a lot of new things today.

I read almost every official article about Antarctica's climate from 2 Ice data institutes.


I found my proof and as much as I would like it...

There can not have been a civilization of mankind during the period 2000 to 4000 years ago.

11.000 years ago I'm still hopefull but evidence is not suporting and suggests it probably did not happen at all.

So. Thank you



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 10:27 PM
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Antarctica was home to Atlantis ?


No.

Case closed.

Evidence can be found here :

www.eos.ubc.ca...

here:
www.ncdc.noaa.gov...

and here :
nsidc.org...

The only uncertainty is about sea ice and...


The possibility there were once people that traveled along the coast from the old to the new world ?

I Don't know.

Maybe.

[edit on 6/21/2010 by Sinter Klaas]



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 11:26 PM
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reply to post by Sinter Klaas
 

So the Medieval warm period is the explanation behind Ice-free Antartica in the Piri Reis Map where that map is made in the Islamic Golden age



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by masonicon
 


It is not clear that the Piri Reis map shows Antarctica. It shows a continuously connected landmass of South America. The northern part appears to be South America. Where is the ocean that separates South America from Antarctica?



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 12:14 AM
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reply to post by stereologist
 


Maybe a lower sea level created a landbridge once which has been destroyed do to natural cataclysmic event(s).

There is still no explanation of the similarities between the new and old world or the easter island people.

Piri the Turkish admiral who owned that map apparently said himself it is a map composed from even older maps that were once kept save in museums of the old world.
Unfortunately they are destroyed in fires.

It is likely it could just be a mistake from the last person who copied it or a piece or of the whole map.



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 12:17 AM
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reply to post by ratqueen
 


Mu is short for Lemuria.
it was the civilization before Atlantis - it was several hundred thousand years ago.
it was in the Pacific Ocean - or rather where there is now the Pacific Ocean.
Right in the middle of the ring of fire.
I think where the Solomon Islands are there are some ruins barely underwater - left from Mu, i think.
so were those strange underwater pyramids and other stone monuments off the coast of Japan - i forget the name but someone will know.

that is where the Asian, Easter Island, Hawaiian/South Pacific, Incan and predecessors, etc came from.

that is why the somewhat similarities between them, that are still left.

so the truth of it is, no matter where Atlantis was, when it was, it was a descendant of Lemuria, and so we are descendants of both Atlantis and Mu.





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