What has GOD done for you lately?

Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by Naughty B0B

 

Why does God allow evil and suffering to exist, especially if he's all-loving? (according to the bible, God allows them both to exist because in the end God will end evil and suffering)

Isaiah 65:17 We won't remember our suffering. Isaiah 25:8 He will wipe away tears and death will be no more. Revelation 21:3,4

Why didn't God create us without evil or faults so that there would be no need for a hell where people were tortured forever?

Ezekiel 28:13-15 An angel was created perfect, later he chose sin and became Satan. Adam was created perfect until he chose sin.

Hell is not what you think it is. Ecclesiastes 9:4-6



Would you like me to continue?

I'm sorry but those aren't good answers. You didn't answer why your god allows evil and suffering to exist. Also, if the angel and adam and eve were created perfect then they shouldn't have been able to "choose sin". Your god created the angel and adam and eve so god would know everything about what they're capable of. Not to mention your god is supposedly all knowing. I'd like you to try to answer the rest of my questions please.

Originally posted by Oldtimer2
What I read is that the OP has a sense of entitlement,seems these days everyone feels that someone must do something for them,why not take care of your own house,it's not gods fault your down and out it's yours,face the facts,,it's much easier then whining IMO

Tell that to a child who was stabbed to death. I have a feeling you're not living in reality.

Originally posted by Naughty B0B

Originally posted by Oldtimer2
What I read is that the OP has a sense of entitlement,seems these days everyone feels that someone must do something for them,why not take care of your own house,it's not gods fault your down and out it's yours,face the facts,,it's much easier then whining IMO

Tell that to a child who was stabbed to death. I have a feeling you're not living in reality.

Wha Wha What!
It seems you're completely out of touch with your own perception. Or maybe just every one elses.

[edit on 21-6-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by Naughty B0B

You didn't answer why your god allows evil and suffering to exist

Earlier you answered your own question. According to the Bible God will end evil and suffering. He also will give people that have died a chance to start over.

Evil is temporary.

We have inherited death from Adam, so are lives are now temporary. 1 Corinthians 15:22

It is said that the meek will inherit the earth forever, and wickedness will be done away with. Psalms 37:10,11,18

But why let Satan and Adam make their choice in the first place?

Satan and Adam were free moral agents. God created them that way.

You can't make someone love you. You can't make them do right.

Why not destroy Satan or Adam right away and start over?

The angels.

They were witnesses to the events.
Job 38: 4-7, 1Corinthians 4:9

There are rules in heaven, and God plays by the rules. Satan literally invented the lie. If God stepped in right away, questions would have remained as to who was right.

Besides, God commanded Adam and Eve to be fruitful, to become many and fill the earth. He also commanded them to stay away from one tree in the Garden. They didn't, and the Creator had to come up with a creative solution, a seed, a re-purchaser. Genesis 3:15

It is impossible for God to lie. Hebrews 6:18

If He forgave them and kept them in the Garden, He would be a liar. If God destroyed Adam and Eve on the spot, they could not have have fulfilled their assignment.

And you and I would not exist, and It would have made God a liar.


What has God done for me? He didn't give up on my ancestors. He sent His son to give me another shot at eternal life.

He gives me hope, for better days.

Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by Naughty B0B

 

You didn't answer why your god allows evil and suffering to exist

Earlier you answered your own question. According to the Bible God will end evil and suffering. He also will give people that have died a chance to start over.

Evil is temporary.

We have inherited death from Adam, so are lives are now temporary. 1 Corinthians 15:22

It is said that the meek will inherit the earth forever, and wickedness will be done away with. Psalms 37:10,11,18

But why let Satan and Adam make their choice in the first place?

Satan and Adam were free moral agents. God created them that way.

You can't make someone love you. You can't make them do right.

Why not destroy Satan or Adam right away and start over?

The angels.

They were witnesses to the events.
Job 38: 4-7, 1Corinthians 4:9

There are rules in heaven, and God plays by the rules. Satan literally invented the lie. If God stepped in right away, questions would have remained as to who was right.

Besides, God commanded Adam and Eve to be fruitful, to become many and fill the earth. He also commanded them to stay away from one tree in the Garden. They didn't, and the Creator had to come up with a creative solution, a seed, a re-purchaser. Genesis 3:15

It is impossible for God to lie. Hebrews 6:18

If He forgave them and kept them in the Garden, He would be a liar. If God destroyed Adam and Eve on the spot, they could not have have fulfilled their assignment.

And you and I would not exist, and It would have made God a liar.


What has God done for me? He didn't give up on my ancestors. He sent His son to give me another shot at eternal life.

He gives me hope, for better days.

According to the bible, god will end evil and suffering but that doesn't answer why it's allowed to exist in the first place. Why doesn't god get rid of it all now? I don't know if you understand the atrocities that go on in this world every day. Each time a child gets mutilated or raped or painfully killed, god is responsible for it. God is responsible for the evil and suffering in this world because he is in full control of evil and suffering's existence. People like you are okay with this and the rest of the insanity in the bible. I will never bow down to a man-made creation. I won't be controlled by other people's beliefs. I certainly am never going to claim that I know the truth.

Originally posted by randyvs

Originally posted by Naughty B0B

Originally posted by Oldtimer2
What I read is that the OP has a sense of entitlement,seems these days everyone feels that someone must do something for them,why not take care of your own house,it's not gods fault your down and out it's yours,face the facts,,it's much easier then whining IMO

Tell that to a child who was stabbed to death. I have a feeling you're not living in reality.

Wha Wha What!
It seems you're completely out of touch with your own perception. Or maybe just every one elses.

[edit on 21-6-2010 by randyvs]

My point in using a child who is stabbed to death is to show that it is god's fault every time something like that happens. Nothing would exist without him, according to the bible. Your all knowing and all powerful god could foresee a child being stabbed to death but doesn't stop or prevent it. Your god allows the possibility of a child being slowly and painfully murdered in the first place. I'm glad christians are fine with that but to me it's just another example of how man-made the bible and its god is. Either its man-made or there is a god that exists who is one cruel son of a bitch. I'm leaning more towards every religion being man-made seeing as how every person thinks their religion is the right one. I believe that all of the gods that have been created by humanity cancel each other out leaving us with.....wait for it............reality. Some people like to live in reality and some people like to hide from it.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Sure, I would be willing to come back if so needed and serve others.

First off, whose to say I am not at present reincarnated to come back and serve others.

Secondly, in doing as much, I will "Mature" spiritually and grow closer to God... just another journey, another path to greater joy.

Lastly, I doubt it would be up to me.... I will do as asked by my Father.

By the way... as so often mentioned here...What control does God..the Church...the Bible place on the masses? Darned if I can figure out what control some here are talking about. I make my own decisions, except as God leads me...but even then, it is my will to submit.

And if I am controlled... how is it a detriment? Would I be raping and pillaging and plundering with great abandon as a non-believer? Nope... Would I read books and consider philosophies that I already have studied and considered? Nope.... Would I cheat on my wife? Or drink a case of beer instead of 2-3 while cooking out on Sat afternoon?...Nope.

What control? I place self control on my selfish lusts, greeds, envies, hurtful comments, lack of consideration, hate, and all the rest...but I can't do that alone. I need God as my foundation. God took a pitiful, selfish person and made me better than I was. Praise God.

reply to post by Naughty B0B

Each time a child gets mutilated or raped or painfully killed, god is responsible for it.

Let's say a kind and generous father raises a son. He tries to teach his son right from wrong. Kindness and goodness. His son rebels and decides to leave home and go to the big city. While there he becomes addicted to drugs, he does some very bad things.

He even murderers someone.



Who would a court of law hold responsible for the murder?

The son, who committed the crime, or his father?

Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by Naughty B0B

 

Each time a child gets mutilated or raped or painfully killed, god is responsible for it.

Let's say a kind and generous father raises a son. He tries to teach his son right from wrong. Kindness and goodness. His son rebels and decides to leave home and go to the big city. While there he becomes addicted to drugs, he does some very bad things.

He even murderers someone.



Who would a court of law hold responsible for the murder?

The son, who committed the crime, or his father?

You're obviously dodging my point. You're talking about a human father and I'm talking about an omniscient and omnipotent god. Apples and oranges. The god you worship allows evil and suffering to exist. The god you worship created the possibility of people being evil. The god you worship is guilty of every bad thing that's ever happened and continues to happen. God could simply get rid of it all whenever he wanted but chooses not to. You can't possibly not understand this. You're messing with me aren't you?

[edit on 21-6-2010 by Naughty B0B]

[edit on 21-6-2010 by Naughty B0B]

God , the founder of all being, the maker of the sky´s and heaven´s did all that, is that not enough. To ask him to touch every´s life and fulfill there wishes in everyway would mean, there would not be 1 dimension but about 7 billion in order to fulfill every1´s wishes on how they would want the world to be.

Everyone has hardships and some more then other´s and some experiance the golden ticket as i would say, but those do not get the struggle of life and how u must push yourself to better yourself as a person. Enduring great hardships better´s yourself as u see what u would not want to happen or what u would not want to do and might teach other´s that lesson.

Raising the question "what has God done for u"

Well my friend, he made it possible for us to have this great conversation

When your a kid Santa Claus keeps you in line. Then you graduate to God. Both with supernatural powers to SEE all the bad stuff you do No presents/No heaven.............good luck with that

reply to post by draevin


I liked your post, and perspective. For me, despite being very deterministic in my methods (usually), I know much of the universe can not be appreciated or admired in isolation. I believe it because I may seek understanding, but what I need and crave is awe and joy (the emotion, not the lady on the View). Since my view of any God is absolutely NOT a cruel, mean, vindictive, pain in the a**, after all were so good at obnoxious behavior, we don't need any help by a supreme being who gets off on being a prick. And since I also feel the biosphere of any living world, that has by it's nature interconnected ecosystems must be aware (called Gaia, or just Mother,MOM) any organism that is aware has at some level the capacity and instinct to defend itself. I don't think Earth has a single-personality-identifiable mind, I do believe it operates with, pardon the pun, the mother of all instincts. You know we think all the mass extinctions were accidents. Its more then just the dinosaurs who were killed by something much more complex then "the Asteroid", (no it didn't help...)

So my view of a God has to first be an acknowledgement the nature of the universe, as perceived, and not perceived, is not anyones enemy. Theologically speaking I think one of the undeniable characteristics of what we call "evil" is it is UNDEFINABLE, most of all to itself WITH OUT an enemy. It will create one, in it's own image if necessary if it can't identify one "laying around" someplace. Has any one or both been part of my life? I view the entire universe as an expression or formula that states its purpose is the development of ever more complex life. By the way I think life, perhaps most can be super intelligent and not be toolmakers. The dinosaurs perhaps, and certainly dolphins and whales. That might be why ET's not double parked in orbit. Assuming their not all cloaked...

I wonder if tool makers are by nature warlike, since we were not endowed with natural weaponry. (And nothing gives you that special feeling as your HK held so very close.) We are opportunists, we can be inventive, and at least in my case impressed with ourselves. That would mean a very bad long term prognosis for us, and any ecosystem unfortunate to be in our exhaust, or in an ocean with a BP oil well.

For me trying to understand what might be what I'll call ultra-advanced life, life that may exist as energy, or something utterly unknown to us in concept, at least I'm not starting out cold here. I have been really fascinated by Buddhism for several years. It seems so poetic, in a mechanistic way, so rational. (Its based on a concept of mine "when a machine works well, its a tool, when a machine works well, and its beautiful, its poetry, and that gives you pleasure, and of course trinkets.") The multi-god concept in Buddhism to me is like ultra-advanced life forms, with a supreme being at the top. Kind of like "Q" from Star Trek, but with better PR. I was raised Christian, Catholic actually (one of several things I'm in recovery for) And while the male based monotheistic religions have a god with his own "zip code", so to speak, only Christ is one I would personally like to know, (Knowing someone personaly is when you have their cell phone # memorized. I would not use it just to impress my associates. It wouldn't.) I don't think I'd be uncomfortable with him in the same room. I don't think he'd care if the place was a mess, because I wouldn't even notice. And absolutely no one claiming to be Christ should enter any place I work or live with out one hell of a sense of humor, no pun intended.

For me it boils down to can I feel OK about myself? I try to do whats right, and now after many years take the advice of a friend dead for 20 years.. I trust my instincts, even on the subject of God. When should you listen to your deep beliefs more?

Originally posted by Naughty B0B

Originally posted by Oldtimer2
What I read is that the OP has a sense of entitlement,seems these days everyone feels that someone must do something for them,why not take care of your own house,it's not gods fault your down and out it's yours,face the facts,,it's much easier then whining IMO

Tell that to a child who was stabbed to death. I have a feeling you're not living in reality.

I think your all not living in reality, i think we live on a planet that is the literal hell from the bible, and your lord is satan.

Material rubbish is bull, so why do you people crave it.

I just wanted to live my life, and be in peace, but oh no the police and gov in uk decided i must be tortured with weapons, so they can have there fun as psychopaths do.

None of this is gods fault, its humans that are trash and i have to live amongst them.

Every person talking about god always goes, what has god done for you, lol. What a rubbish argument against something existed.

I have a question... HAVE YOU READ THE BIBLE? (sorry for caps) I can understand everyone has different beliefs, even if some believe in nothing. But most of peoples reasons for not believing are just silly and uneducated. I agree in that noone should blindly follow anyone or any church that says anything. That is just asking to be mislead but that doesnt make the Scripture not true or God not real. Even Jesus said always prove the word with the word and NEVER take anyones "word for it". Always research the scripture for yourself and you will find the truth and after that make an educated decision on if you want to believe or not. Please, Please read the book, dont just blindly listen to youtube, ATS, girlfriend, Mom, Dad or even the pastor. Read the book and you will find truth.

Sorry for another post but quick homework project:
Go into the Bible (King James with Strongs numbers Preferably free at e-sword.com) And tell me where you can find these things in the word.

Santa Claus
Christmas
Easter Bunny
"3" Wise men
Did the wise men see "Baby" Jesus
Sunday church
the apple Adam ate
Jesus skin color and hair texture
Halloween
What day did Jesus die on hint: Its not Friday
Lastly, Why do bad things happen to good people and why do bad things happen at all? The answer is there you just have to read it. Start with Genesis.

For extra credit (This one is really hard and you will need additional sources) find the real title of Satan (not lucifer), what does lucifer actually mean, and why its in the King James once but other bibles twice and some not at all!? Hint: What you have been told about lucifer is not true.

Im sorry if Im preachy but I respect everyone if you believe or not but I hate to see people lead astray by ignorance. If you believe excellent, If you dont I still Love you and respect you but do it because you read for yourself and made you own decision not on what human beings, flawed people and TV tells you. Like my Mom always used to say "if someone told you to jump off a bridge would you do it" Find out for yourself.

Originally posted by cobrala
Sorry for another post but quick homework project:
Go into the Bible (King James with Strongs numbers Preferably free at e-sword.com) And tell me where you can find these things in the word.

Santa Claus
Christmas
Easter Bunny
"3" Wise men
Did the wise men see "Baby" Jesus
Sunday church
the apple Adam ate
Jesus skin color and hair texture
Halloween
What day did Jesus die on hint: Its not Friday
Lastly, Why do bad things happen to good people and why do bad things happen at all? The answer is there you just have to read it. Start with Genesis.

For extra credit (This one is really hard and you will need additional sources) find the real title of Satan (not lucifer), what does lucifer actually mean, and why its in the King James once but other bibles twice and some not at all!? Hint: What you have been told about lucifer is not true.

Im sorry if Im preachy but I respect everyone if you believe or not but I hate to see people lead astray by ignorance. If you believe excellent, If you dont I still Love you and respect you but do it because you read for yourself and made you own decision not on what human beings, flawed people and TV tells you. Like my Mom always used to say "if someone told you to jump off a bridge would you do it" Find out for yourself.

Stop looking for answers in a man-made bible that's self contradicting and full of holes. Think for yourself. Look at everything that happens in the world around you. Watch videos online of real people being burned alive or someone choking to death on their blood after being hammered repeatedly in the face. That's reality for you. The world is cruel and if you want to believe in an imaginary superhero you need to also believe that your superhero is cruel too, because everything that exists exists because of him. The authors and followers of the bible used fear to control people and the sad thing is that people are still being controlled by it to this very day. Christians are taught not to question or doubt their faith which also scares people into continuing to blindly believe. There's too many people who think they know the truth and too many religions contradicting each other. More people need to think for themselves.


[edit on 22-6-2010 by Naughty B0B]

[edit on 22-6-2010 by Naughty B0B]

Originally posted by cobrala
I have a question... HAVE YOU READ THE BIBLE?

Yes, I have, several times. Not just the KJ version either, but the "other" Bibles. Reading it is what made me leave Christianity for good. I agree with you, every Christian should read it, and realize that not one thing was written about Jesus until 60 years after he died! The Bible is nothing more that a collection of stories and myths from many times, and many cultures. There is some truth, some lies, and some plagiarism, and most of all, God nor Jesus did not write it, MEN did. Men with an agenda. Christians also need to read the Torah, then they would know what the Jewish people think of them.

What has God done for me lately. Hmmmm. What kind of time frame are we talking about.

1. He formed this entire existence for me to exist.

2. He has chastised me so I will know right from wrong.

3. He gave me a free ticket to heaven. Its up to me to use it though.

4. He lets me breath, walk, love, hate, laugh, cry, and any other state of being.

5. He gives me strength everyday.

6. The best part is one day he will end my suffering.

I think the question should be asked as, What hasn't God done for you lately?

reply to post by InfaRedMan

God is
God suffers
God does
God is
God is
God is
God is
God created
God is
God is
God is
God is

You obviously believe in him.
Very foolish to think a puny human being could sit in judgement of God.

Naughty

My point in using a child who is stabbed to death is to show that it is god's fault every time something like that happens. Nothing would exist without him, according to the bible. Your all knowing and all powerful god could foresee a child being stabbed to death but doesn't stop or prevent it. Your god allows the possibility of a child being slowly and painfully murdered in the first place. I'm glad christians are fine with that but to me it's just another example of how man-made the bible and its god is. Either its man-made or there is a god that exists who is one cruel son of a bitch. I'm leaning more towards every religion being man-made seeing as how every person thinks their religion is the right one. I believe that all of the gods that have been created by humanity cancel each other out leaving us with.....wait for it............reality. Some people like to live in reality and some people like to hide from it.

Your glad Christians are fine with that? Well I'm a follower of Christ and if I say you are wrong and don't know the full scope of what you are talking about, would you have any interest in what I have to say in retort?
Prolly not. You don't want to believe anything except what you want to believe. See where you end up with that?

[edit on 22-6-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by cobrala
I have a question... HAVE YOU READ THE BIBLE?

Yes, I have, several times. Not just the KJ version either, but the "other" Bibles. Reading it is what made me leave Christianity for good. I agree with you, every Christian should read it, and realize that not one thing was written about Jesus until 60 years after he died! The Bible is nothing more that a collection of stories and myths from many times, and many cultures. There is some truth, some lies, and some plagiarism, and most of all, God nor Jesus did not write it, MEN did. Men with an agenda. Christians also need to read the Torah, then they would know what the Jewish people think of them.

Autowrench, Thank you sir for answering my question. I respect your educated decision and have the utmost respect for you although we have different viewpoints and beliefs. You have exercised the greatest git God has given us..freedom of choice and free will.

Naughty B0B on the other hand did not answer my question and then went on to belittle me and make ridiculous statements. You also use fear mentioning blood and head being bashed and all that fear mongering. Naughty B0B has proven my point exactly, who told you I believe in a superhero? Where did I ever say there is a superhero in the Bible? Who told you not to question your faith or prove the word? Also you obviously didnt find the answer to my question of why bad things happen to good people because you made another stupid assumption talking about the cruel world. Your assuming that I dont think God capable of wrath and destruction and punishment and judgement. I know the world is cruel, but God did not choose this for us, we choose it for ourselves. He gave us the free choice to choose sin and rebellion or peace love and obediance, Adam and Eve choose rebellion and sin and that is why the world is cruel sir because God loved us so much that he allowed us to accept him or deny him. The wages of sin is death, and the punishment most severe so I dont know who told God was all roses and flowers and sunshine and hippie peace and love ALL the time. God is not to be tested or played with or told how he should run things. During Noahs time God said he regretted creating Man because of the sin and evil man was capable of when MAN rebelled and choose sin. So God flooded the ENTIRE WORLD and killed many. God cannot associate with sin. But he saved Noah because of his faith. God said he was pleased with Noah and that he will never again send water upon the earth to destroy human kind.....the next time he will send FIRE. God is not an imaginary superhero like you say and God is not a child to be belittled. Man can choose what they want, but you will reap what you sow.
All Im saying dont belittle people and speak false things without actually reading the word. its your right to believe or not but dont lie to people, and at least know what your talking about. Its like passengers telling me how to Captain my aircraft when they have no idea what they are talking about. Please read a book on flying before you tell me when to flare