David Icke is a liar, page 6
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reply posted on 21-6-2010 @ 04:17 PM by MarrsAttax
Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
Originally posted by DrHammondStoat
As for thinking Icke means Jews when he says reptilians, he doesn't. Years ago some neo nazis turned up to one of his talks as they believed Icke was refering to Jews, every time he mentionedreptilians....they sadly were disappointed. Some people still think Icke is anti-semitic because a bunch of extremists turned up to see him years ago.


It is not just that. It is the fact he uses old libels against the Jewish people, replacing them with reptilians in his claims; he cites the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as being real; he is a holocaust revisionist; and he has explicitly stated a cabal of Jewish-elites is trying to manipulate the world.
Further Reading


[edit on 20-6-2010 by DoomsdayRex]


I've read quite a lot of his books and get the impression he really believes what he states but nowhere in any of the books I read did I see any evidence of hate, racism or any other form of prejudice.

The Further reading you've provided condemns Icke of being 'Guilty by Association'. The fact that right-wing extremists promote his books in their own literature doesn't mean Icke is a right-wing extremist - that is a fallacy. After all, right-wing extremists also promote the bible - does that mean Jesus was a right-wing extremist?

(nb I'm not comparing Icke to Jesus in any form, merely demonstrating the faulty logic)

Here's another example that illustrates my point quite nicely
www.youtube.com...

I'd recommend reading Jon Ronson's book 'Them: Adventures with Extremists'. He spent time with Icke and drew the same conclusion that while some of those associated with Icke were anti-semites, the man himself was not i.e. when he said Lizards he really meant Lizards - it was not a code word for anything else.



[edit on 21/6/2010 by MarrsAttax]


reply posted on 21-6-2010 @ 04:53 PM by Maybe...maybe not
Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow

are you MODS seriously leaving this topic (?)in forums like this for any reason?
!


That's an interesting point.

The foundation of Icke's "theory" is the world is being controlled by secret alien reptilian shapeshifters.

On the 7th October 2007, Springer stated that all reptilian threads should be relocated to the Skunkworks Forum (see below).

So, I guess the question is.....

Is this a reptilian thread?


EFFECTIVE TODAY 07 October, 2007 (Reptilian threads)

After much consideration and thought it has become evident that the "Reptilian Shape Shifter" craze has got out of hand in the Aliens/UFO Forum here on ATS.

Since Reptilians are not technically "Aliens", they are certainly not UFOs and since the vast majority (if not all) of the "video evidence" is nothing more than lights reflecting on the glossy, spherical shape of the human eye and creating an elongated shadow that when viewed on a terribly pixelated, low resolution video appear to be something they are not, it is now ATS POLICY that these threads be started in the Skunk Works Forum.

The Skunk Works Forum was created for exactly these sort of theories and or speculations.


Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not



reply posted on 21-6-2010 @ 05:20 PM by okbmd
reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


" The foundation of Icke's "theory" is the world is being controlled by secret alien reptilian shapeshifters. "


To the contrary , this is only one of many theories put forth by Mr. Icke .

Until you can factually show that Icke=reptillian theory , then you probably shouldn't label the foundation of his work as such .


reply posted on 21-6-2010 @ 05:23 PM by Maybe...maybe not
Originally posted by okbmd
reply to post by Maybe...maybe not

" The foundation of Icke's "theory" is the world is being controlled by secret alien reptilian shapeshifters. "
To the contrary , this is only one of many theories put forth by Mr. Icke .
Until you can factually show that Icke=reptillian theory , then you probably shouldn't label the foundation of his work as such .


Okbmd.....

No worries!

I've done my homework on Icke.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not


reply posted on 23-6-2010 @ 09:13 AM by kevinunknown
reply to post by lifecitizen


In 1991 David Icke announced on national television when on the Terry Wogan show that he was “the son go God”.


reply posted on 23-6-2010 @ 09:57 AM by atlasastro
Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by lifecitizen


In 1991 David Icke announced on national television when on the Terry Wogan show that he was “the son go God”.


And he was crucified for it.


I like that he has stuck it out though. Icke is one tough nut, so to speak.


reply posted on 23-6-2010 @ 05:19 PM by lifecitizen
Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by lifecitizen


In 1991 David Icke announced on national television when on the Terry Wogan show that he was “the son go God”.


I saw that Wogan interview.
I felt sorry for Icke.
To be fair he never mentioned Jesus, just the son of god.
Irrc, Icke doesnt think Jesus was a real person.

[edit on 23-6-2010 by lifecitizen]


reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 10:18 AM by Pimander
reply to post by DoomsdayRex


Originally posted by Pimander
A very great deal of the INFORMATION David Icke has published is THE TRUTH.
YOUR REPLY Such as?

The majority of the factual material in Truth Vibrations and in The Truth Shall Set You Free is accurate. I have only scanned his more recent outlandish works so can't vouch for them...

Originally posted by Pimander
He also repeatedly admits in his books that some of the information may be incorrect due to DISINFORMATION.
YOUR REPLY:So Icke is never wrong; if he is wrong, it's evidence of a conspiracy of deception, proving him right.

Not at all. Icke ADMITS some of the material is likely to be wrong. The point here being to research a large volume of material there is always a risk of falling foul of false material

Originally posted by PimanderGive Icke a break. You may not agree that the worlds leaders are reptilian (or reptilian controlled) but I bet you have no evidence to the contrary!
YOUR REPLY: Argument from ignorance. Even if there were no evidence to the contrary, it still wouldn't mean his claims are possible, because Icke has no evidence himself.

If you actually bothered to read his work instead you would know that he cites lots of evidence which he admits can't all be accurate. When you can produce detailed evidence that he is wrong you may be in a position to engage in a proper debate about his work. At this point he has books full of evidence and you have produced no evidence that any of it is incorrect.

Originally posted by PimanderFrom where I sit, he may be misinformed to some degree but everything he publishes is with GOOD INTENTION. There is NOTHING wrong in that.
YOUR REPLY: Are you familiar with what the Road to Hell is paved with?

I'm afraid as a skeptic, I need to see some evidence that hell exists. I thought it was a the mythical destination of eternal damnation for the souls of sinners/non-Christians. So if we forget the unlikely possibility of landing in Hell do we agree that good intentions are... well... good I suppose.

Sorry about that last one but couldn't resist lol. Massive apology for forgetting to reply and also for sounding so hostile as I'm sure you're a great person.


reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 02:31 PM by DeltaPan
Originally posted by DrHammondStoat
Originally posted by Y2Zgt


Again I must ask why do people say David Icke discredits Ufology? He has never studied UFO's. Even if he did why would he have any responsibility to what you see as the credible researchers? Everyone should be free to discuss their theories, it's called free speech. We are also free to ignore what they are saying if we choose to and believe it's all a load of balls if we want too. Is it that his ideas make you uncomfortable and you feel the need to lash out when you could easily just ignore the 'crazy man'?



I do beg your pardon!!!

You say people dissenting Icke have never read his books, ay.
Well you've obviously never seen "Secret Space" etc.

Some good stuff in amongst a load of over dramatised bollocks!!!

As far as the occult and esoterica are concerned, i could pull his material apart on those levels as well, he recycles what he has gleaned from those who have divulged some small tid bits of esoterica, then surrounds it with common stuff easily found on the Net to make it sound like he's more clued in than he actually is and he gets things very wrong, there is a reason it's called the ruddy occult and the adage, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, is quite pertinent and letting interested people outside of arcane esoterica know a little and encouraging them into what they really shouldn't be messing with is irresponsible, he has a responsibility to the public, but he is irresponsible, on that and a few levels.

I happen to think Icke has a lot of things correct, i know he muddies waters, but some of it stinks and i don't trust foul smells!

I am of the camp which is very dismissive of his reptoid stuff as too i have no respect for him because of his incitement against the establishment etc, as too he is a profiteer (Notice in "Secret Space", all the copyright claptrap regards non existent copyright tracking technologies etc for his overpriced media which is recycled material available free, with a voiceover, playing on the paranoic nature of a fair percentage of his viewer/follower demographic the same as is the manner that detritomentary is presented, dramatics which play into delusional minds, who weak minded people will believe and he knows who his viewer demographic are, that's blatantly obvious in the production techniques of his non stage performance material, only works on naive kids and nut jobs for instance.), but i will not reiterate it all.

Just search for Icke + reptoid and my username for what i've said in the past if interested in my views.

I will say, i recognise he has tried to be a bit more responsible in the past couple of years, i saw his performance in Melbourn in 2009, the video of that is, he had toned his inciting people to civil disorder bit down, but he still doesn't put people right on older mistakes, which people still gibber on about even though he has moved on and shifted his material accordingly.
David Wilcock, as i have stated, is very different, as Michael Tsarion is very different again, i have the utmost respect for them both and i resent posters tying David and Michael in with Icke, completely different entities.

Michael and David are to be respected, Icke may be a nice chap, but doesn't deserve my respect until he puts people right on a fair few things and stops profiteering as too acts a bit more responsible but i acknowledge he is actually trying to be a bit more responsible, truth is something he is actually economic on in the context of him now knowing otherwise but carries on regardless with what he now knows was wrong, in a few areas, that is my main contention and i only respect those who are truthful.

IMHO.

Peace.

[PS, I know people accuse Michael Tsarion of lying, but it is more the way he presents his material, which people fail to make distinctions in different elements which he presents which are facts, citations and opinions he holds but in his Oracles presentations his keeping his speech in a form of monotone to make editing segments into further material in the series which was related much easier and seamless, it had tendency to confuse, didn't confuse me, but then i am Irish, obviously did confuse some people because i've seen what they say regards his misleading etc and i could explain each one which i have seen in a video accusing him of lies, it's also much the same as what Erich Von Daniken had when he first released his books, people accused him of lying but they were referring to his theorising, stating opinions and/or asking questions after presenting evidences but where certain critics deliberately or stupidly quoted while omitting punctuations and gaps etc in order to misrepresent him, sometimes jumping whole paragraphs. In Michael's case, he gets a little close so certain people like to misrepresent for various reasons, consider who he discusses and why they would not want people realising such and such, utterly different to Icke.]


[edit on 27-8-2010 by DeltaPan]


reply posted on 30-8-2010 @ 06:02 AM by Extant Taxon
Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not
Originally posted by tbonethedstroyer
At one time, there was a rumor going around that if you replace "reptilian" with "jew", his message made much more sense........IDK?


Tbonethedstroyer.....

Oh come on matey.....

Let's not make this an Israel battle thread.....

.....please?

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not


tbonethedestroyer is correct actually. There were strong protestations early in his career that Icke changed his message by transplanting the term Reptilian for Jew, in some kind of coded, metaphorical language to avoid hate crime accusations. They still occurred though. Here's an example from early 2001:

Guardian U.K.:
Beset by lizards

David Icke, one-time goalkeeper, TV presenter and self-proclaimed Son of God, has re-invented himself as a travelling guru. Would Canada take seriously his warnings of power-hungry extraterrestrial reptiles or would he be dismissed as an anti-Semitic bigot?


It's probably not exactly the case though, though the Jews are a factor in his Reptilian conspiracy mythology many of the people he identifies as shape-shifting aliens are not Jewish at all. They are an element to his ideas on who the real conspiratorial group is. But scholar Michael Barkun argues somewhat differently:

A similar ambivalence surrounds many conspiracists’ references to Jews, at once claiming that they are not the villains yet implying that they are associated with evil. Thus Cooper instructs his readers,

I hope you caught on to the fact that the secret power structure is toward a totalitarian socialist state (fascism) [sic]. It is not the Nazis, as they were a product of this power structure. It is not the Jews, although some very wealthy Jews are involved. It is not the Communists, as they fit the same category as the Nazis. It is not the bankers, but they do play an important role.

Such an approach, in which Jews are implicated but seemingly not central
to the conspiracy, reappears in other writers. A particularly complex form can be found in the work of Valdamar Valerian, also known as John Grace. According to him, the interconnected elements of the conspiracy range from the Hell-Fire Club and the Fabians to the Mafia and the Theosophical Society. Among the most prominent components, however, are the house of Rothschild and the world Zionist movement.

David Icke also seeks to have it both ways, simultaneously claiming to be offended at the thought that anyone might find him anti-Semitic and hinting at the dark activities of Jewish elites. He protests that the charge of anti- Semitism is merely a ruse to silence truth seekers, a tactic of the shadowy “Global Elite,” who “denounce anyone who gets closer to the truth as an ‘anti-Semite.’” According to Icke, the Anti- Defamation League is the conspiracy’s tool for silencing “researchers who are getting too close to the truth about the global conspiracy.” Indeed, he claims to find the ADL’s attacks “very comforting,” since they serve as “confirmation that I am going in the correct direction.” The more strongly Icke is condemned for anti-Semitism, the stranger are his protestations of innocence. He attacks alleged exploiters of the Jewish people, including the B’nai B’rith, which he identifies as the Rothschilds’ “intelligence arm,” used “to defame and destroy legitimate researchers with the label ‘anti-Semitic.’” It was supposedly the Rothschilds who brought Hitler to power, created Zionism, and “control the State of Israel.” Among Icke’s other Jewish villains are Henry Kissinger and “the Canadian gangster family, the Bronfmans.”

Icke claims that he is actually acting in the interests of the Jewish masses. Those masses have allegedly been sold out by the shadowy “Jewish clique” that does the bidding of the conspiracy’s leaders. “[T]he Jewish people,” by contrast, “are used as mere propaganda fodder by the upper reaches of their own hierarchy.” This hierarchy, Icke claims, was behind not only the Russian Revolution but also the rise of the Nazis. While Icke is not a Holocaust denier, his ultimate inversion is to lay blame for the Holocaust at the feet of mysterious Jewish elites who used the Nazis to accomplish their own nefarious purposes.

Like the earlier nativists discussed in the preceding chapter, Icke and other UFO anti-Semites obsess about “Jewish bankers.” They are alleged to be the international wire-pullers behind countless episodes of national collapse and international turmoil. The old names, such as Rothschild and the firm of Kuhn, Loeb, continually recur. Given this penchant for recycling old themes, it is scarcely surprising that that hoary forgery, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, exerts an abiding fascination.


pp. 144 - 145 of "A Culture of Conspiracy: Apocalyptic Visions in Contemporary America." (Emphasis mine)
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