It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


The Messenger (Dirken Ridge) - update of the 'Demon Identification' (Red-eyes) Case.

page: 11
<< 8  9  10    12  13  14 >>

log in


posted on Oct, 2 2010 @ 11:17 AM
Wow....Very Interesting...

Hooded Spirits or Genii Cucullati

...they tend to be found in a triple deity form

...indications that they may be fertility spirits of some kind some cases they are carrying shapes that can be seen as eggs, symbolizing life and rebirth

...these figures also seem to carry swords or daggers

Wiki Link

posted on Oct, 2 2010 @ 11:23 AM

Originally posted by DrJay1975

Goodbye. Do not summon us in this manner again. This is a dangerous method to extract something from the other side of the veil. As you have seen, what you draw out may not be what you expect. And while you are strong, there unimaginable things across the divide. Slán go fóill ...

They walked over to the druid and laid hands, all three upon his forehead. A few seconds later he dropped like a rock. He said something that sounded like "heeuntachk ! He has the ability to safely summon us."...

TO everyone else who plans to assault my credibility; skip it. Pretend I'm fabricating the entire thing. You'll sleep better.

Thank you DrJay for sharing all this and your willingness to help also. I know this is for Woody and her friends but I feel very connected to this also for some reason.

Anyone else who wondered, I looked up Slan go foill, and it means 'goodbye for now' or 'goodbye for a while' in Gaelic. Does that imply they will be contacting someone again?
Also, does anyone know what that word is? DrJay spelled it heeuntachk, but I didn't find it anywhere spelled like that. Does anyone know what word it is and how spelled?

I do not question the validity of DrJay's or Woody's descriptions of these events. I do not question their credibility. Just wanted to get that out there.

posted on Oct, 2 2010 @ 11:40 AM
reply to post by DrJay1975

"They walked over to the druid and laid hands, all three upon his forehead. A few seconds later he dropped like a rock. He said something that sounded like "heeuntachk ! He has the ability to safely summon us."

tah-may go hee-un-tachk is Irish Gaelic for "wonderful".

"Wonderful, he has the ability to safely summon us".

Irish Gaelic

edit on 2-10-2010 by Julie Washington because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 2 2010 @ 01:02 PM
Well, it makes sense to me. "Dirken Ridge" only attacking women. A group of demi-gods that have lost their flock so to speak. Lesser god's and such exist at our leisure. Without our faith and worship their existence fades with time and memory. One of them found a way to continue without worship. Feeding. But he's limited by what he is.

We are dealing with something that has existed for more than 1700 years. He's been twisted and corrupted by time and solitude. Initially he aided women and he's turned to the opposite, he hates them. He enjoys the torment. He feeds off it and his existence depends on it.

I hope none of Woody's crew are pregnant or trying to get that way at present.

And to be quite honest I was not instructed how to deal with this thing. I mean your talking about a creature that was worshipped as some sort of a god. He's been feeding on spiritual energy for a thousand years and he's stronger than any single member of his former sect by far. I'm fairly certain he's not something we can remove via normal means.

But I am not familliar with this particular group of entities at all other than what some brief research has turned up. Some were fertility gods, some were worshipped by warrior cults. And at one point they were worshipped in quite a large area.

I can say this, the three we encountered were powerful but nothing that made me uncomfortable or afraid that I couldn't deal with if need be. So I'm not sure how they can deal with "Dirken Ridge", at least not without assistance.

I need to encounter him closely as I'm neither a child nor a woman, so I'm not food.

Just be careful until we can sort something out Woody. This isn't a shadow person or a demon, this is much more. Stay guarded and let me know what your thoughts are

posted on Oct, 2 2010 @ 01:26 PM

Your experience made more sense than anything else so far. Those three hooded figures met me when I was a young child, in a dream. Inside a very large castle tower. It had a winding staircase on the wall that went all the way to the top. At the top of the staircase were three hooded figures, swords, daggers, and the like. Behind them was a door in a recess in the wall. The door was chained with what looked like some sort of golden chain. They patted me on the head, one after the other, then I woke up. I had the dream several other times throughout my life, but it didn't make sense until now. Given my strong Irish/Scottish Heritage, I suspect that I have more connection with this case than just an outside observer. Without going into too much detail, I was "influenced" by the 4th being, or something like it. He called himself George when he was with me, and quite frankly, before I rid myself of him, I was a womanizer, drank way too much, and took advantage of my ability to sway people to my way of thinking (aka: getting women). This makes so much sense. Please U2U me at some point. I have some more relevant details that I have already shared with Woody, but I believe you need to know.

I'm going under tonight. I've got to talk with these beings. George, or Dirken Ridge, or whatever he calls himself these days will not come near me for some reason. I have to find out why.

Peace be with you.


posted on Oct, 2 2010 @ 04:01 PM
Hey there everyone,

Well DrJ, your earlier post of last nights events has certainly given me food thought ... to the point where I had to step back for a while and I've stayed away from ATS since I read the post ... just to get my head around it and absorb the details. I have just read through the recent posts that have been added throughout the day and I see that others (like myself) have been researching 'The Hooded Ones' (Genii Cucullati).

I find it interesting that there is little 'certain' knowledge concerning them ... this is a very Celtic thing
... as is the number 3 ... the fact that they were described in one of the papers that I researched as symbolically phallic in their hooded robes implies masculinity ... and in Britain the Genii Cucullati is always depicted as a trio ... the first thing that struck me about this was the fact that they are the masculine representation of the 'power of 3' ... in the same way as the feminine equivalent is the maid / mother /crone 'power of 3'.

Another point that struck me was the mention that they can sometimes be seen as dwarfs / scurrying figures ... I wondered if they might be what has been seen by Mother1 / Innermostlistener (in their homes) and Phenex (at work) ... it would seem to be a bit of a coincidence if there was no connection after what you were met with last night.

We should also remember that Dirken Ridge first made his presence felt in the home of Mother 1 and her daughter ... and Mother 1 had in her past given birth to a stillborn daughter ... who we believed was responsible for causing the light anomoly on the Red Eyes photograph ... again could this be a mere coincidence ?

Now thankfully neither myself nor Phenex nor innermostlistener are pregnant or trying to get pregnant ... however your comment gave me a real jolt because 'S' the young girl who 'Ridge' has showed an interest in this last week ... came to me for a Tarot Reading just the other week because she was worried about her partner who is currently in Afganistan ... and she wanted some direction etc (I hasten to add that she was not aware of the things that have been going on until the other night ... when the coffee cups and pictures on the wall started rattling ... them innermostlistener brought her to see me and explain things to make her aware without scaring her) ... but the important and relevent thing to this news is ... several cards in her reading indicated a strong leaning towards news of a pregnancy in the coming months (we even joked about it) ... now I'm thinking this is why he has singled her out from all the other females that work at the hotel.

Another reason why he needs to be removed as soon as !

Finally, about 10pm last night whilst innermostlistener was re-strengthening her 'protective-auric egg' when she got home ... Dirken Ridge literally tried to plunge his hand through her barrier and reach inside ... she physically saw his hand and face ... she said his hand was very big and he has high cheekbones (she's going to try and draw him) ... again just to remind you that innermostlistener was completely unaware of DrJ's activities yesterday because (a) she was at work all day until after 9pm ... and her internet access is switched off because of her imminent move ... in fact she was oblivious to yesterdays activities until Phenex told her today ... then brought her round to my house during their break when I let her read DrJ's first post covering what happened with the Genii Cucullati yesterday.

I strongly feel there is something I'm missing about all this ... something that should be obvious to me ... it's so frustrating !


edit on 2-10-2010 by woodwytch because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 2 2010 @ 04:34 PM
I apologize for the long comment - but I'm just going to throw out my ideas.

DrJ’s event has risen a few questions for me.

In the attempt to summon Dirken Ridge, 3 Genii Cucullati appear instead. Why?

Is it just for a warning?
Is it because Dirken Ridge is too strong?
Is it because Dirken Ridge knows how to or is avoiding your summon?

Since we now know that the 3 Genii Cucullati are fertility spirits…
Are the 2 Moms' new relationships a cultivation of DR manipulating the new boyfriends and making the Moms think “love at first sight” to seduce the couple into getting pregnant in order to feed on the unborn’s spirit? Is mom still of child bearing age? And the daughters are in their 20's? Is the boyfried currently residing the with daughter, while the mom hasn't moved yet?

Previous mention of lunar cycles could refer to the woman’s monthly cycle.

IChing reference to number 56:
The wanderer=”He was one of us. But he turned from that path long ago.”
Fire: Red Eyes
Wiki Link

Another 56 connection made by ManBehindTheMask on 8-31-2010

“Gremory is listed as the 56th demon in the lesser key of Solomon. In demonology, Gremory (aka Gamory, Gemory, or Gomory) is a strong Duke of Hell that governs twenty-six legions of demons. He tells all things past, present and future, about hidden treasures, and procures the love of women, young and old, but especially maidens."

So if his motivation is an unborn child, why these woman? Aren’t there easier targets out there like unplanned pregnancies? So this made me think that maybe there is something in the fact that if a child was created through his manipulation there was more power in that?

NightskyeB4Dawn nailed it in his post on 6-29-2010:
“Mother 1 and Mother 2 were never the intended. The entities were drawn to the young women but they draw their power from the energy that is being fed to them from the mothers.”
It has become a game for them at this point and the game has gone from daughters, to mothers, to the interferes.

DrJ’s Post on 7-5-2010
There was a quote which was directed towards your situation again Woody. Once the demon manifested in the druid and he was restrained, he got eerily calm. He offered to assist with your problem( I knew I shouldn't have mixed the 2 situations) if we allowed him to remain.

"He's feeds off those not of the Trinity. He destroys forests and all that reside within leaving nothing but scorched earth. He is of us, but no longer. He has been cast out twice. Once from here and once from a priest. He fears the one who cast him out. His name is Gomory. He knows the past, present and the futures. He aqquires the love of women as if it were a game." J-"Is this the same demon known as Gremory?" "Yes, but he is much more as they will see. Anyone who has intervened has already been punished and that await much more." J-"Elaborate" 'i will not, I AM SOON TO BE CAST BACK." "But we come in force, and soon." "Remove him and will return" "But he cannot remain unbound." "It is no good for you nor us."

You stated on 9-2-2010 that regarding Mother 2's email stated: “... but apparently he had told her that 'they have a pastlife connection and they had been brought back together this time around to complete some unfinished business.”

This comment is quite unsettling. I wonder if this is going to crop up in Mother 1's new miraculous love relationship, conveniently showing up right after Mother 2 is questioning her new relationship and having a plan B?

I'm worried that the ultimate target was Girl 2. But she moved and now the new target may be Girl 1. I would be keeping guard between the new boyfriends and daughters...and hope nobody gets pregnant.

Hope these thoughts aren't too crazy for you. It was just the feelings I was getting reading how this was all unfolding.

I wish you peace and love. Stay safe and protected.

So after taking all this in I notice you are in N. Yorkshire, England = where my family roots are and I am also studying Ancient Egypt.

posted on Oct, 3 2010 @ 01:36 AM
My wife and kids are at Disney running a marathon thiss weekend so I've dropped everything in an attempt to deal with Dirken Ridge. I informed my Druid of my intentions and he explained to me how to establish a connection with "Dirken Ridge". Apparently he was given this information during the previous encounter. I figured a solo attempt would be fine since I'm a man and have a degree of immunity to "DR's" attacks. Which turned out to be true but I could still feel his spiritual pressure. It's immense, but not so massive that it was incapacitating. I made a terrible mistake. After thurs night/friday morning I was under the assumption that he was flying solo. He is not. He has become strong enough that lesser entities follow him. Everyone/thing is always looking for someone stronger to follow. He has a group that he has attracted a platoon of varying entities.

They range from simple lost souls, to older spirits wo have fed off the spiritual energy of the living and become strong. He has lesser demonic entities. After the summoning my entire home appeared to go through a brown out. Dirken Ridge appeared but behind a thin veil, but still quite visible. The room around the two circles became quite dark and I began to notice motion all around me, not behind the veil, but in the room.My dogs were kenneled and just losing it. Two agnry Maltese are a fearsome site. I estimated about 18 entities. Some were vivid. Some were fast moving shadowy types. Maybe 3 or 4 strong enough to be dangerous to a human being.

I gathered myself and spoke, "Genii Cucullati, why,,,"
DR- Stop. (now there was an echo, three languages, English, Gaelic and an unknown tounge). Do not refer to me as one of them. They are weak, content to drift off into nonthiness. I am not. I am not them anymore nor are they me. I allow you three questions. I stress the word allow.

DrJay-I summoned you, and you will speak to me in a respectful manner and as long as i require your presence.

DR-(Laughter) If you say so. But we shall see. Ask your questions and I will answer as I see fit.

DrJay-The women you tormenrm why do you target them> Amd why do you remain with them so long. My understanding is that you feed and move on. Why remain with these women>

DR-Do you think I wish to remain in the ethereal realm for eternity? Let me ask you this, when you dine, if you order a meal, you eat, pay and leave. You dine again later, perhaps at home or a different restauant. I prefer a buffet and they are a smorgesborg. But more importantly they are the key to my complete manifestation in the world of the living.

(at this point, some of the lesser entities began to test my circle) It remained strong.

Drjay- I require you to move on. These women will be bothered by you no longer.

DR- I go where I wish and do as I wish, if you think you can inhibit my progress, by all means. You have no power over me. The reverse is true. But my legion have no suck problem. One of the entities passed thpough my perimeter. I quickly disapated him. "Very good, impressive:. You cannot protect them and she is the key. I will be wholse soon, reborn. Questions are over, I must be going.

Drjay-No, I will not allow this.

DR- Irrelevant. I grow weary of your preseence but I don't want you to be lonely so I'll leave you some friends to play with. Goodbye for now. Enjoy. I will see you twice more before I am whole again.

I concentrated every oucne of spiritual pressure at my disposal in an attempt to contain him. That tree bore no fruit. The veil thickened and "dirken Ridge faded. I've spent the past 30 minutes cleaning up the leftovers.

Apparentlly one of you provides him with the opportunity to achieve physical form. Light eventually returned. d===================================================================================================================================================== ============

I must continue this tomorrow. I am drained and exhausted. He is beyond the capabilities of the church. I can inflict harm but I can't destroy him.. I can't banish him. I must think and I must rest. Remain guarded,,,,,,, I'll talk more tomorrow.

posted on Oct, 3 2010 @ 04:17 AM
reply to post by DrJay1975

Sounds like you need some sort of Sam Winchester Supernatural dude.I think I read your in Louisiana in
one of your threads what about some heavy hitting voodoo dude,you might have to go for a system where
they deal with real bad stuff on a regular basis with a darker and nastier repoitoire,for example sitch a goetic demon on this thing or something.

posted on Oct, 3 2010 @ 04:38 AM
I've been closely watching this case and DrJay1975 sounds like he could do with reinforcements. His posts read like a gripping novel - not saying I don't believe him though. Hope Woody is bearing up - just waiting to see how this pans out with her and the others.

posted on Oct, 3 2010 @ 12:02 PM

Originally posted by woodwytch
reply to post by DrJay1975

I don't quite know what to say !

I have read through your post once and there is a lot to take in ... I need to read it a few more times to fully absorb the content.

There is something that feels very 'familiar' (that's the only word I can think of to describe it ... but that's not really an accurate word ... very hard to explain) ... I actually feel quite stunned / shocked (does that make any kind of sense at all [?] ... it doesn't to me) ... I actually feel a bit weird (physically).

I'll be back to post later when I've taken all this on board.



posted on Oct, 3 2010 @ 03:44 PM
reply to post by woodwytch

I've done nothing but seek to assist you. There is nothing in it for me. I'm not writing a novel and it certainly isn't a publicity stunt.

I would not put myself in a situation I couldn't handle or felt I couldn't handle. I've never been an attention seeker nor would it serve any useful purpose for me to do so.

Every issue you've had I've sought to assist you with because I felt a sort of sychronicity with you. I'm quite knoweldgable on most paranormal topics and probably have more experience than most who post here.

I've never pointed anyone in the wrong direction or done anything outlandish.

The fact is none of us really know anything about anyone else on this board other than the assumptions we make after reading their posts.

There are two people I know on a personal level on this board. And one of them has intimate knowledge of how I conduct investigations and what my particular level of competence is. Nobody else here has an intimate knowledge of how I work and what I'm capable of. Nor do they have any knowledge of what is safe or unsafe for me.

And no offense if I was going to write a novel it wouldn't be on ATS and it certainly wouldn't be about a situation that I've had limited involvement in and no direct interaction with those afflicted by the entity.

Making assumptions about what is dangerous and not dangerous for me is for me alone to decide. If you wish to make an assumption about it, then there is the possibility that it may be errant. As are assumptions about my attentions. 99% of my posts on this site are clinical and research oriented.

Believe or don't believe. It's up to you, as it is with every other person here and every other post on the board. If someone seeks to question my crediblity please do so in a u2u so not to detract from the seriousness of this thread. Unless otherwise instructed by woody, I will refrain from posting in this thread or the other regarding this case. I will refrain from trying to provide assistance on my end. I will limit myself to research and my own activities. I will keep tabs on this thread because I'm interested in the outcome. If I can be of assistance please u2u me.

And if someone will explain how to edit my previous few posts in the new ats format I will delete the content as apparently some feel it setracts from the serious nature of the thread.

posted on Oct, 3 2010 @ 04:27 PM
reply to post by DrJay1975

Hey there DrJay,

Thank-you for replying to most of the points I made in my previous post ... but you didn't actually answer the parts that I feel are the most relevent (to me on a personal level).

Please correct me if I am wrong with these things ... I genuinely want to understand why things went the way they did.

* When you went to meet your friends in such a hurry (because of the small window) ... it was with the intention of summoning 'Ridge' (not the Genii Cucullati that actually came through) ?

* Do you agree that it was irresponsible to attempt this without warning us ?

* You wrote that you had to leave almost as soon as you'd sent the message to me ... if this was the case could you not have taken an extra 30secs just to send another message to let me know you were going there and then and that we should be prepared ?

You see DrJ ... I really couldn't give a flying foot whether you have already and/or plan to write a book or not ... and you are absolutely right ... what you do and who you choose to summon in the privacy of your own home is your business and nothing to do with me ... I stand corrected and I apologize.

But my personal safety ... and the safety of the people I work with ... is my business ... and I feel that your decision to not inform us ... was bad practice and inappropriate.

And it surprises me that you didn't touch on any of these important points in your first reply ... you only seemed concerned that people had suggested you had an interest in writing a book ... and then you focused on being defensive because I suggested you may have been unwise to summon this thing and invite it into your home.

As a psychologist you will no doubt see during a quick re-read of your post how 'telling' that it is ... in this case it is the things that you don't reply to that say the most ... interesting !

posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 01:44 AM
reply to post by woodwytch

My first thoughts are that these minor disputes that have arisen could be the desired outcome of Dirken Ridge, or perhaps even the effects from his direct influence upon all of us.

I would be so bold as to suggest a few notions of engaging eachother from here in regards to this thread

Judge Not - We are all grown ups experiencing this life as we are meant to, We cannot know what others are truly capable of.

Assume nothing - We have no way of properly interacting with one another yet. Forums, emails and U2U's are half assed at best for any kind of direct communication/coordination and perhaps we could instead be thrilled to have such overwelming support from one another, even if it is non organized individual efforts.

We are here in discussion to assist in the detention and or destruction of a demonic entity whos range of influence and power is far from measure - Yet we are falling to distractions of ego.

Might I suggest moving important discussions, planning and courses of action to a direct form of communication such as skype. Either voice chat or text, but something that involves direct discussion that is immediate and decisive?

Politics aside, my opinion on the events DrJay has experienced is of a worried nature. If we are dealing with beings such as these then it is possible that we possess as individuals neither the power, nor the skills to completely encapsulate the demise of this demon.

I know that we can do this through combined efforts.

I have seen the stars that we are and they are bright indeed,

lets turn up the heat



posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 09:04 AM
reply to post by Gradius Maximus

Thank-you for being the voice of reason ... and I'd like to appologise to everyone for venting my dismay and frustration on a public forum ... in hindsight that was probably not the most appropriate course of action to take.

I still haven't had answers to my specific questions and requested explanation ... I really do feel they deserve to be acknowledged ... sadly I tend to doubt that I will ever get these answers now ... DrJay, you said you would not post on the thread anymore but I am happy for you to reply via a u2u ... it would be much appreciated ... and would go a long way to preventing any further bad feeling between us.

I am sorry if any of you found my post embarrassing.

Now, I had written a reply before this one concerning more physical activity since Friday ... but unfortunatly it decided to delete itself

I have some things to do later ... so when I've had a quick check through my message and recent posts ... I may not be back on here until quite a bit later or even tomorrow ... remember positive vibes are always welcome


posted on Oct, 5 2010 @ 07:35 AM
Hello everyone,

Just a brief update ... after the drama of the weekend it was decided by Phenex ... Innermostlistener ... and myself that things were getting a little melodramatic and over the top ... as a Witch this goes against my natural instinct and I like to keep my roots firmly planted in the earth beneath my feet ... besides with this kind of thing drama is not good ... it only encourages and feeds it.

Therefore, we decided to withdraw and re-centre ourselves ... and go back to basics ... to those earthed roots ... to what we know and are comfortable with ... back to the Craft (The Power of 3).

So that we could raise our energies and keep them concentrated ... it was decided not to elaborate or share any details on the thread ... because this would only dilute the energies raised and our strength of will.

A very potent ritual was performed last night. An extremely ancient ritual that I have only had cause to use once before in my 20+yrs as a pracicing 'solitary'. And on that occasion it was fully successful and still holds fast a decade later ... and I just made the necessary adaptations to suit last nights specifics.

We had plenty of help (and we'll just leave it at that on that point) ... I am not being vague in an effort to create and / or enhance the atmosphere ... it is the Witch's way (those who read and have participated on this thread and follow a similar path will understand the meaning and importance of this).

I've already mentioned that this action is for the purpose of keeping the energy and intent concentrated and undiluted ... so no specific details will be shared.

I just wanted you all to know that things were in hand ... we three are well and strong ... and initial signs indicate we were successful.

Of course only time will tell the depth of our success ... I know we have been tricked in the past ... but this was so incomparibly different I cannot find words in my vocabulary to express the strength and power that was made available to us ... which was balanced by a complete and total peace at the end.

Thank-you for all the interest and well wishes that have been sent throughout this case ... and that includes the people who have never actually posted on the thread but have only read it and u2u'd me frequently ... sorry I couldn't inform you all fully before the event ... it was important that it didn't turn into a carnival. I'm quite ashamed for allowing myself to get dragged along with the raging and uncontrolled current ... but everything happens for a reason and it was only the events of the weekend that brought me to my senses.


posted on Oct, 5 2010 @ 07:53 AM
reply to post by woodwytch

Good to hear you had success and I do truly hope this is the end. You all have been put thru so much.
I completely understand about getting back to your roots and containing your power.

I'm having problems writing what I'm feeling, so I'll just say. Peace be with you and may everyday be blessed.


posted on Oct, 5 2010 @ 08:23 AM

I am an outsider, casual reader, and user of ATS. I have read both threads from the beginning.

It is my opinion that DR is significantly "smarter", perhaps from experience, and has managed to create a wedge between parties and is trying to divide and soon plans to conquer.

If he could pitch DrJay and Woody against each other, he now has two less to deal with.

Don't let that happen!

The "Win" that Woody is conveying may only be a temporary pause to compell people to let their guard down.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think this is over yet.

My 2 cents.


edit on 5-10-2010 by EyesII because: because I am not as smart as I would like to think I am

posted on Oct, 5 2010 @ 08:38 AM
Hi Woody....glad to hear some great news....Hope hes not playing another one of his little tricks on you in waiting for the "dust" to settle and then striking again when you all return to your day to day lives and are apart and unprotected. Hope its gone for good!!!
Best wishes your way!!!



posted on Oct, 5 2010 @ 08:44 AM
reply to post by EyesII

It certainly wouldn't happen from my side of the fence ... I can't of course speak on behalf of DrJ.

Just one thing I would like to say (to everyone);

Please try not to be negative about this ... I fully understand that some of you might be disappointed because the event is very likely over ... and the thread may potentially have come to an end ... but making 'negatively flavoured' comments about him not being gone ... whilst they are understandable ... even possible ... can we please just enjoy the fact in a positive light ... that at this moment in time 'he is gone' ... whilst I feel confident (considering what we did last night) this will endure ... as I have previously said 'time will tell'.

The point is ... let's enjoy the peace we have at this time and for however long it may reign ... please don't be the raincloud at the party ... and please don't think we haven't considered all possibilities ... rest assured we have !


<< 8  9  10    12  13  14 >>

log in