Casting of Angelina Jolie as Cleopatra fuels race debate

Casting of Angelina Jolie as Cleopatra fuels race debate

www.examiner.com

'WHY NOT A BLACK ACTRESS?'

A recent Essence.com commentary entitled Another White Actress to Play Cleopatra? insists:

"Honestly, I don't care how full Angelina Jolie's lips are, how many African children she adopts, or how bronzed her skin will become for the film, I firmly believe this role should have gone to a black woman."

(visit the link for the full news article)

Nothing really amazing here, but really? Really? Do people REALLY think the ancient Egyptians were black? Even though DNA testing confirms that they were Indo-Europeans much like Persians, Greeks and Sumerians?

This is ridiculous. First to cry racism on something so stupidly minor and second for not even being factually CORRECT.

www.examiner.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Some people just want to keep a stink stirred. They are not happy unless they have a little drama going.

reply to post by SpectreDC


Yay!

Cleopatra is one of my favorite historical characters.

I do so hope that they don't just concentrate on her love life though, as exciting as it may have been other stuff actually happened.

As for Angelina J. Well...I don't know. I think she is a good actress. I just don't know if she will be the best choice for this role, I want a true biopic, and not just another fluff piece.

reply to post by SpectreDC


Cleopatra was actually Greek not africian or egyptian.

Cleopatra VII Philopates ("glory to her father") was a very popular name among the Ptolemy Dynasty, but the seventh was the most famous, and a legend in her time. She wasn't an Egyptian. Her bloodlines were Macedonian, Persian, and Greek. Her father was Ptolemy XII Nothos ("the Bastard"), the illegitimate son of Ptolemy XI by one of his concubines. It is said that Ptolemy XI was forced to marry his own elderly stepmother, who was also his cousin. Scholars of Egyptology also believe that her mother was Cleopatra V, the wife and sister of Ptolemy XII, and she died during Cleopatra VII's birth, or soon afterwards, of complications of childbirth.

Cleopatra's ancestry is said to connect back to Alexander the Great, who ruled Egypt in 332 B.C., and founded the city of Alexandria. After Alexander's death on June 10, 323 B.C., his staff officer, Ptolemy, declared himself him in 3-4 B.C., and called himself "Soter I" (Soter menaing savior). Ptolemy I Soter had a strong hooked nose that genetic trait of his line. Ptolemy XII Auletes ("the flute") had Soter's large nose and was Cleo's father. After her mother's death, Ptolemy married his second (unknown) wife and she gave him two sons.

By 305 B.C. Ptolemy became ruler of Egypt and founded the Ptolemaic Dynasty of twelve kings, of the same name, and Cleopatra VII. In this time, wealthy Egyptians tried to gain a Greek education and the Greeks influenced their art and architecture (A. J. Spencer, Death in Egypt. London: Penguin Books, 1991, 25). The Ptolemies continued the old Egyptian ideals and built temples to their gods, and those of Egypt. After Anthony and Cleopatra's death in 30 B.C,, Egypt came under Roman rule and they constructed monuments with Roman Emperors as Pharaoh, as in Egypt rule.

THE LEGEND:

Most historians seem to agree that Cleopatra, Queen of the Egypt, was born on January 13, 69 B.C. and died, by her own hand on August 12, 30/31 B.C. (at age 39), and is buried in the royal mausoleum at the Sema at Alexandria with Marc Anthony. She was said to have been found, after her suicide, wearing a flowing gossamer veil with her jewels and ladies (Charmion and Iras)and eunuch laying around her body (also dead). There are two popular opinions (1) that she used an asp to kill herself (2) that she poisoned herself. In either case she most likely did not suffer before her death. She lay on a bed of gold, when Octavian's men broke down the door. Octavian (Caesar's heir) had denounced Mark Anthony in the Senate and in 30 B.C. he declared war on Cleopatra. Anthony and Cleopatra spent the winter in Samos, Before Cleopatra's death, Octavian told Cleo she could survive if she killed Anthony. When Cleopatra refused, Octavian had plans to kill Anthony and imprison Cleo. She tried hunger strikes and suicide, which Octavian stopped. She managed to get a message to Mark Anthony (most likely part of the plan to entrap Anthony) about her impending suicide. When Anthony got the message, he was told she was dead. He then came to her prison hoping to find a way to see her one more time. As Anthony approached her prison, in the temple, Octavian's men were waiting and Anthony was mortally wounded. Mark Anthony then found out Cleopatra was still alive and had his men use pulleys and a rope to raise his dying body up to the window in Cleo's prison. Her ladies and her pulled Anthony into the room, where she was held, and he died in her arms. At that moment, much like in Shakespeare's "Romeo and Juliet," she killed herself.

She was a woman of great legends, and it is not clear if all these legends were true. However, we do know that she married her two half-brothers, as was the way of the Ptolemy empire. She married Ptolemy XIII (who was later drowned while running from Caesar's troops)and Ptolemy XIV, then eleven (11) years old (who was later poisoned) Both of Cleopatra's younger half brothers were born to her father's second wife.

ANTHONY:

Two years after Caesar's death she found Mark Anthony (40-30 B.C.) attractive and she took him as her lover and he sired three of her children, and left his first wife Fulvia in Rome.

HER CHILDREN BY MARK ANTHONY:

(1)Alexander Helios (B: 40 B.C.)... twin of Selene.

(2) Cleopatra Selene (B: 40 B.C.)...twin of Alexander Helios

(3) Ptolemy Philadelphus (B: 36 B.C.)commisioned the Pharos of Alexandria to be built.

Mark Anthony lead a sordid life. Mark Anthony married (1) Fulvia (he was her third husband). Fulvia's first husband was named Curio, a friend of Mark Anthony's, with whom he reputedly had a homosexual relationship. Fulvio died in 40 B.C. right before Mark decided to marry Cleopatra, and thus legitimize their children in 40 B.C.

Mark Anthony then married (3) Octavia (then a widow), sister of Octavian, Julius Caesar's heir. This marriage took place as Cleopatra was giving birth to his last child, Ptolemy Philedephus, in 36 B.C.

CLEOPATRA AS A MOTHER:

Cleo had Philostratus (a philosopher) and Nicolaus (a historian) as tutors to her four children.

Cleopatra was of swathy, dark complexion, taking after her grandmother, a Seleucid, with some Persian blood. She had luxurious copper hair (most likely made that color by the use of henna). She reign from 51-49 B.C. and 48-30 B.C. (Foreman, Laura, Cleopatra's Palace: In Search of a Legend. New York: Discovery Books, 1999).

Cleopatra continued to hire thinkers, poets, and scientists to her court and she continued her own education as well, studying philosophy and traveling to other lands. Above all, Cleopatra was clever, intelligent, and politically oriented. She understood and spoke Egyptian, Greek, Hebrew, Arabic, and Persian.

WHAT BECAME OF HER CHILDREN?:

Cleopatra's three children, by Mark Anthony, were thought to have been raised by Mark Anthony's third wife, Octavia ( Leon, Vickie, Uppity Women of Ancient Times. New York: MJF Books, 1994, 88-89) Cleopatra of Cyrene or Selene (meaning "moon") ruled from 33-31 B.C. She was Anthony and Cleo's daughter. She ruled Armenia, Media, and Parthia with her twin brother, Alexander. Octavia, sister of Octavian, arranged a marriage for this Cleopatra with Juba, King of Numidia, who was considered a gifted ruler, and she was made Queen of Mauretania, on the site of present day Morocco. They reigned for nearly 50 years and had two children. Her brother, Alexander, was made co-ruler with her. Ptolemy Phoenica was made ruler of Cilicia and Syria (Jackson, Guilda M., Women Who Ruled: A Biographical Encyclopedia. New York: Barnes & Noble, 1998).


Source: www.angelfire.com...

Angelina Jolie would be perfect for the part. She appears to be a most beautiful and smart woman.

My favorite Cleopatra was Elizabeth Taylor. At the time Hollywood made her Queen of the Nile (1963) she was (IMO) The most beautiful woman on the planet. She wasn't your blonde barbi doll, but smoldering, dark and most exotic. She spoke and walked like the embodiment of the queen that ruled Egypt for two decades.

Elizabeth Taylor spoke and carried herself in the movie not like the average 60's "oh help me darling hollywood bimbo", she played a shrewd, manipulative, smart and powerful woman in a man's world.

Her eyes are a rare and natural violet. My husband got a glimpse of Ms. Tayor, while in New York in the late sixties, and even from a distance, he said she was like a diamond shining in the sun. She stood out even when wearing a scarf and sun glasses. He said she was so beautiful, it took his breath away.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/75d0c5bf67f8.jpg[/atsimg]



[edit on 19-6-2010 by ofhumandescent]

I always find it funny when people get mad at stuff like this. IT'S FREAKING HOLLYWOOD!!! their not exactly known for their historical accuracy.

Why does it have to be a black actress (although I think it would be better because Jolie is awful)?

Does it really matter? honestly?
No one will watch the movie anyway.

It has to be a black actress because the folks who run organizations like these need us to remain fixated on race. If we, as a population, stop caring what color someone's skin is, everyone employed by the NAACP loses their jobs, to mention one organization, and every one of those people who makes a bundle crying, "Racist!" suddenly has need of a real job.

As long as they can effectively divide us based on skin color or some other physical attribute, they will have jobs and be making plenty of money.

So of course it should be a black actress. Indignation's big money these days.

I saw this the other and couldn't believe it but blacks seem to cry racism more than any other race I have seen. I am not saying all black but most, believe me I see it ALL the damn time where I live and I am quite sick of it.

So I guess they just have something against Angelina Jolie cause Elizabeth Taylor played Cleopatra and she isn't black.. Also who even said Cleopatra was black, I thought she was Greek?

grammar fix

[edit on 6/19/2010 by mblahnikluver]

reply to post by SpectreDC


This isn't nearly as bad as Hollywood casting Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai. C'mon, they expect me to believe the last samurai in Japan isn't Japanese?

On topic- Egyptians aren't black. People are blaming Hollywood for trying to make a history movie historically accurate? The world these days.

The worst part is that Angelina Jolie is so far past her prime, it makes it laughable. I mean, YEESH...she looks like Skeletor now.

They should have went with someone of a more believable racial background for the sake of theater, if nothing else.

reply to post by Nosred


This isn't nearly as bad as Hollywood casting Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai

Cruise played a disgruntled soldier that sided with the last samurai...

The Egyptians, and I'm pretty sure Cleopatra was included in this, used to whiten their skin using early forms of makeup. It is believed that some of this stuff was actually carcinogenic, but they weren't around long enough for it to cause any serious problems.

www.king-tut.org.uk...

If there was an audition process and she got the job from that I feel it's case closed. Unless they were casting specifically for a white female, that would be highly doubtful I would have thought. If that was the case then there is definitely something wrong there.

www.eye-make-up-tips.com...

[edit on 19-6-2010 by Big Raging Loner]

Well, I don't know exactly what Cleo's skin color was (I'm sure it was darker than Liz Taylor's...that's for sure), I don't see the issue with this. Yeah, and I'm recalling some people (maybe the same people) arguing that skin color shouldn't matter when casting a role. Of course that's when the argument was in their favor. Guess it doesn't work both ways. As usual.

This reminds me of a piece on Chapelle's Show where one of the guys says Hollywood was crazy for casting Tom Cruise as the Last Samurai. I think he then said he had an idea for a movie Tom Hanks as the last n-word on Earth. LMAO!

Edit please feel free to replace n-word with its real meaning, beaause that is what he really said but I dont want to get busted.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Why, because they should have a 19 year old play a 30 something year old? Lol.

She is still beautiful, but she does need to put some flesh on those scrawny little arms and legs of hers.

WHO Really CARES........ I don't except maybe it should have been Sarah Palin... There is another sexualised (and boob enhanced) meglomanic with a SMALL mind and intellect fixed on world domination. !!

It will be insignificant anyway when other global issues take centre stage in the minds of most of the short attention span POP culture obsessed population.......

If it is a Hollywood production it will probably not be very accurate to the truth as most films produced from there tend to be historically in-accurate so as to please the cinema film-goers into believing what TPTB want them to believe.......

Regards

PurpleDog UK

I don't know I think angelina would do well as cleopatra. As far as essence is concerned, we all know that controversy sells magazines.
I don't agree with the poster who said that balcks seem to cry racism more than others though. Honestly to me it seems as if they ARE more racist though. I live here in the deep south were a good percentage of the population is black and hispanic. I'm not racist by any means, I hate everyone equally! :lol
What really gets me though, is that I often hear black people talking about hispanics in the same way that older generations and racists spoke about the blacks. I've actually heard black ppl say, "they just wanna come here and make babies to collect a welfare check." When I was growing up, my father, who was terribly racist would often say the exact same thing in reference to blacks. Oh the irony!
I've heard blacks call hispanics and whites by vile terms which would be in contraindication of the T & C for me to repeat here. I know that not every black is a racist, much as every cracker, err white person is not a racist :lol

reply to post by Nosred


You're right.

Cleopatra has always fasinated me, she ruled Egypt for two decades and was, for a time able to manage holding off Rome. For the time period, this would have been a very difficult task.

When she saw she was going to be conquered, she chose to die by her own hand vs living on her knees under Roman rule.

She was of Greek and Persian ancestory and could trace her lineage back to Alexander The Great.

All the ruling bloodlines even today can trace their blood line back to a small elite group of "people" who have been ruling earth for the past 10,000 years.

Therein lies another conspiracy. Blue Blood/True Blood.

Some theorists suggests that the rulers of our planet from day one up to now have all come from the same bloodline and that bloodline maynot be totally homosapien.

[edit on 19-6-2010 by ofhumandescent]

reply to post by Big Raging Loner


Cleopatra while Queen of Egypt for over two decades was not Egyptian.

She was greek and persian.

She was also a descendant of Alexander the Great.

One last tidbit of data, of her whole family, she was the only one that could speak Egyptian fluently, she could also speak Aramaic, Ethiopic, Greek, Hebrew, and Latin

Take one afternoon and really research this fasinating woman.

She inherited her father's kingdom at 19 and died at 39 years of age.

Very intriguing woman. She was able to survive for a quite a while in a man's world.

And when her time ran out, she dictated at the very end how she would take leave of this earth.

She chose to die a ruler vs spending the rest of her life on her knees.





[edit on 19-6-2010 by ofhumandescent]