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20 Dead in South Africa from botched circumcisions.

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posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 03:25 AM
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As the world focuses on the FIFA Football World Cup and the latest arrest of Dutch women for illicitly marketing Bavaria beer, I wonder how many have read that 20 boys have died roughly within the last 12 days because of botched circumcisions?

I wonder if people are even interested in this annual slaughter. It seems only female circumcision is important to global gender activists. If it's African boys then "it's their African tradition" with no movement against it.

Well, I was just wondering if anybody cares about the mutilation of African and other boys, or whether these 20 lives are of no international concern.

Source: news.bbc.co.uk...




posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 03:33 AM
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I think that every boy should be allowed to decide for himself when they are age 13 or so... you would see a dramtic decline in this im sure...

that said i respect there culture and heritage, but i am appalled that something seemingly sooo important to these people is carried out with minimal regards to hygene

~meathead



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 04:06 AM
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reply to post by Mike Stivic
 

The circumcision described here is amongst the Xhosa people (the 2nd largest ethnic group in SA). The Zulus abandoned the practice under King Shaka, who apparently felt that the healing time involved interfered with his junior regiments.

Now some Aids activists have a highly debated view that circumcision lowers HIV-transmission, although the Xhosa HIV-rate seems to be no different from that of the Zulu. Always eager to grab a populist cause, the current Zulu king now wants to re-introduce the custom. Although Aids workers prefer clinic circumcisions (also not without risks), it seems likely that what the king wants to introduce is traditional circumcision.
There is already a custom called "virginity testing" for girls amongst the Zulu. This involves elderly women viewing the genitals of the girl, and although no mutilation is involved, they admit to basing their verdicts on a girl's chastity by factors like "the look in her eyes", or how "water drops from her body".
So it appears these atrocities will not only continue but expand.



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 04:14 AM
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Circumcision has proven to reduce the rate of STD's and UTI's.
Are you saying that no man should have it done or just men who don't have it done in the proper medical facilities.



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 04:21 AM
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reply to post by calstorm
 


im not sure who you are directing that question at but ill go ahead and answer anyway..

i am in my mid thirties american, i was circumsized as an infant and can tell you for sure i think it was really messed up that something like that was not left up to me..

I think if its my body then it should be my choice..

Now before we get into a disagreement i want to clarify that i am in no way shape or form offering advice to anyone else on the subject nor trying to push an agenda, i am just telling you how i feel about this and respect everyone elses right to there own conclusions

respectfully yours ,

~meathead


[edit on 19-6-2010 by Mike Stivic]



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 04:46 AM
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Well they won't do it past 10 days of age. (At least her anyways.) Parents are forced to make the make the choice for their boys. As a woman I would really hate to be surprised to by an uncircumcised man and half to walk away. Most American women are grossed out by it. Was talking about it earlier with a group of friends, so IMO its cuel for parents not to have it done if the boy can't have it done latter.



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 04:49 AM
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reply to post by calstorm
 

I'm not convinced that circumcision on its own does reduce HIV/AIDS.
The Xhosa men are virtually all circumcized, and their HIV rates as high as that of the uncircumcized Zulu people.
However, one should give clinic driven circumcisiom a try.
Ultimately it's supposedly more protective of the male, and it's far from a guarantee (the danger is it may be regarded as such). Some even argue that circumcision robs the penis of its natural lubrication, and thereby increases risks of fissuring during sex.
There may be reasons totally unrelated to circumcision to why it appears like a success in some areas of Africa (less population shift and concurrent partners).



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 05:42 AM
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They should stop doing it in winter, they are naked, with just a blanket. I remember a few years ago that a girl was raped and killed at one initiation school as part of the initiation. Nobody wants to mix in with the traditions, but I think it's time that they do! If the Zulus stopped, why do the Xhozas carry on? Much more boys died since the beginning of this year, how many more until December!



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 06:16 AM
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reply to post by madleo
 

Gender activists certainly didn't mind interfering or taking stances on female circumcision in West Africa.
One argument is that in the past, or traditionally these deaths never occurred, and the "traditional surgeons" were highly trained elders (although it was never entirely safe).
It appears that many traditional structures have fallen with apartheid and its homeland/reservation system.
What is sure is that an uncleaned, unsterilized knife is hardly a prevention for HIV.
Especially with the rise of evangelical Christianity African culture is very sensitive to appearing highly moral. Cultures that had unmarried women walking around almost naked two decades ago in rural areas now censure women for wearing short dresses and pants!
Whatever the case, the discourse on male circumcision as universally good has the potential to be very harmful.
I'm HIV-poz, and being circumcized didn't help me squat.



[edit on 19-6-2010 by halfoldman]



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 06:45 AM
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Calstorm, I found your point about 'American woman finding an uncircumcized penis to be gross' really quite offensive. So you are worried that that might take some guy back to your place, realize he is uncircumsized, and so have to back out of sex?!?

So because you have an odd sexual preference, all male infants should have their genitals mutilated?!?

And yeah, it is just a sexual preference. Do you not find it odd that all of the women in Europe don't have your strange disgust for an uncircumcized penis?

And don't bother coming out with the same old cliched arguments about hygiene, etc - which have been totally disproven.

Your attitude is a disgrace.



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 07:26 AM
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reply to post by Millions
 

"So because you have an odd sexual preference, all male infants should have their genitals mutilated?!? "



I was thinking the exact same thing but did not want to say it..bravo for speaking your mind Millions.

I think its rather funny how there was a much louder response to the
docter who was doing the same thing to young womens "counterpart" the other day
www.abovetopsecret.com...


and correct me if im wrong but didnt this g_d awful practice start out as a way to mark the slaves?

~meathead



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by calstorm
Circumcision has proven to reduce the rate of STD's and UTI's.


Stats & studies please.

Science tries desperately to come up with an excuse for this useless, often religiously motivated procedure.



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 07:59 AM
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"A new study published last week in Thymos: Journal of Boyhood Studies estimates that more than 100 baby boys die from circumcision complications each year, including from anesthesia reaction, stroke, hemorrhage, and infection." Source



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 08:12 AM
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HERE is the kind of nonsense science dreams up in order to justify genital mutilation.

What garbage



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 08:17 AM
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Totally agree with Stivic.

It's bull that they do this to babies with no say in it. I know parents who have had their infant girls ears pierced. Like that doesnt set them down a certain path in life?

For every decision, especially one relating to body mutilation whether it's a piercing a tattoo or a circumcision, that somebody else makes for you there's an entire life path that is immediately taken out of your control.

It's messed up. It's even worse than trying to arrange a marriage or force a line of work on the kid because at least by that time the kid is old enough to think and speak and fight or flee.

Plastic surgery right after birth. Ridiculous. Dicks have had hats for thousands of years. The hat is default. It isnt an error like a cleft pallet. It's the default state of man.



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by calstorm
Well they won't do it past 10 days of age. (At least her anyways.) Parents are forced to make the make the choice for their boys. As a woman I would really hate to be surprised to by an uncircumcised man and half to walk away. Most American women are grossed out by it. Was talking about it earlier with a group of friends, so IMO its cuel for parents not to have it done if the boy can't have it done latter.


Goes out to show how out of touch with reality the americans are, if "most" women are grossed out by the way men are made by nature. It is as sane as saying that someone would be grossed out by a woman not mutilated down there



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 08:53 AM
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Your born into this cruel would and then the next thing you know someone is loping off part of your junk, and they wonder why males have attitudes.

Ouch!!!



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 09:25 AM
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There is absolutely NO benefit to circumcision, this is a fact...even many doctors still believe the myths perpetuated regarding being circumcised. It's cultural and has absolutely no positives health wise. And calstorm, i think any half decent man who came across that sort of attitude would walk away from you if im being honest.

[edit on 19-6-2010 by Solomons]



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Couldnt have said it better myself.......I tip my hat to that statement actually.



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 10:00 AM
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I wanted to add some youtube links, especialy on SA and circumcision. However what I found was quite lengthy, graphic and disturbing.
All I can say is that people are raised in certain cultures, and one cannot really blame people (especially women) for having a preference.
The male genitalia is external and pretty prominant, and I suppose people go with what is common or normal in their culture.
Because circumcision has been simplified as "good" and "hygenic" a lot of men and women haven't really questioned it.
What's typical though is that just as gender activists and the men's movements in the West are questioning it, it is imposed ideologically on Africa. What's the point - you still have to wear a condom to be safer either way?

What is researched is that men who were cruelly cut in adolescence were more patriarchal and abusive to women. In fact female circumcision occurs in societies where male circumcision is particularly brutal, and may sometimes include skinning the whole groin area up to the navel.




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