California on 'verge of system failure'

I spent a few days in California a few months ago (Laurel canyon, LA, to be exact) and I couldn't help but feel two things: A) how much casual wealth was on display up in those hills, just sitting there ripe, fat, and happy; and B) how much bad budgetary news was piling up. I looked out at those easy, wide winding roads lined with beautiful, unique houses. I thought about all the crazy parties and decadence that went on there (the place used to be especially popular with rock stars). It reminded me of Versailles -- open, not easily defended, could easily be overrun by irate torches-and-pitchfork types and the people there wouldn't have a clue what hit them.

I got a very, very forboding vibe from the place, as if I was watching some kind of requiem for a whole way of life upon which the curtain would soon be drawn. I hope nobody is hurt, ever, and that there is no unrest anywhere and we can all sort our problems out peacfully, but part of me couldn't help but think, "this will end very, very badly."

reply to post by hawkiye


Those union leaches that are running California won't stop till they are forced by circumstances to stop. They have truly run that state into the ground. Tax money to run any state government is like a narcotic. Those idiots running that state have been addicted to the public tax and spend narcotic for a long time. Now, it's time to go cold turkey, and break the habit, and they can't. I look foward to seeing the result of being forced to make cuts.

Many states face the same challenge, including mine. tough times ahead for many.

Kick out the illegals and you'll have more legal workers paying their taxes to help support all the social programs and services they are talking about shutting down.

And these are the same people talking about boycotting Arizona for taking the matter of kicking the illegals out in their own hands... lol ...

You reap what you sow.

The seventh richest nation in the world if it was to break off the us....this is a sad story

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


Good thread as always DD but I feel i must add that it is not just the USA suffereing at the hands of the greedy elite.

Every town/state in every country in the world is under pressure at the moment and as more and more jobs are lost and the money dries up, more and more people are losing their homes and closing their businesses. Everyone is feeling the pinch

When I read articles on this site that focus primarily on the USA it gets my goat a little because the USA is not the be all and end all of this earth and there are indeed other nations that are effected by this economic downturn.

I make no apology for my curtness, many of my friends and family are suffering tremendously because of the cartels that have stolen our pensions through private banking and lending, the more I look the worst it becomes. I have always lived my life with this motto if you can't afford it you can't have it therefore, wherever possible I would avoid debt like the plague. However, these are sad times indeed where the desperate become dependent and at this moment in time I can only see things gettng worst that makes me so damn angry

Whilst I do indeed feel sorry for people in the state of california my compassion does not end there, I extend it through the USA and over to Europe and the rest of the world.

I can only hope that one day the majority will wake up and realise that their downfall was brought about by an illusion casts over them like stone and that they do indeed have the power to free themselves from the noose around their necks.



[edit on 21-6-2010 by franspeakfree]

Originally posted by Cool Breeze

Originally posted by piddles

Only a bunch of backwards no brain having dumbasses want the biggest economy in the US to fail

So because I do not care for California much I am a backwords, no brain having dumbass?

If I am not mistaken are you the one who blamed California's economical crisis on the fact that pot is illegal in your state???

Hey genius, pot is illegal all over the U.S. and no other state is blaming illegal drugs for their failing economies

Light up another one, put on some Hendrix and everything will take care of its self man, no need to worry.

Good thing I am the one who has "no brain and is backwords" I would like to point out that the reason I think the U.S. is in the mess it is in is because robbery and assault are illegal. If these two things were legalized and taxed (kind of like food stamps but there would be assault and robbery vouchers) everyone would be able to have what they want... well at least most of us, survival of the fittest and all

1. wanting an important economy to fail and having an opinion about people from and the government of california are two different things

2. Did not blame the crisis on legalizing marijuana, I offered it as a self-sustaining solution rather than forcing the taxpayers to pony up the cash.

3, Marijuana is legal to medical patients who qualify in many states in the US. It makes it legal for a patient to purchase it at clinics, have up to six plants, and have up to 6 pounds of marijuana for personal use. if you took two seconds to google that, you'd know it.

4. no one said anything about robbery and assault, you're grouping it together as if it were the same thing. It's clearly apples and oranges but I'm glad you live in a world where "Reefer Madness" is a reality. Even Sarah Palin has a more open mind about this issue than you.

5. you didn't actually read anything I said, you skimmed over it.


I'm willing to bet you're an idiot wingnut who doesn't fact check anything that sounds like something you want to hear. I also bet you drink alcohol but find people who smoke weed repugnant.

come back when you're less dumb.

piddles out.

Originally posted by piddles

1. wanting an important economy to fail and having an opinion about people from and the government of california are two different things

2. Did not blame the crisis on legalizing marijuana, I offered it as a self-sustaining solution rather than forcing the taxpayers to pony up the cash.

3, Marijuana is legal to medical patients who qualify in many states in the US. It makes it legal for a patient to purchase it at clinics, have up to six plants, and have up to 6 pounds of marijuana for personal use. if you took two seconds to google that, you'd know it.

4. no one said anything about robbery and assault, you're grouping it together as if it were the same thing. It's clearly apples and oranges but I'm glad you live in a world where "Reefer Madness" is a reality. Even Sarah Palin has a more open mind about this issue than you.

5. you didn't actually read anything I said, you skimmed over it.


I'm willing to bet you're an idiot wingnut who doesn't fact check anything that sounds like something you want to hear. I also bet you drink alcohol but find people who smoke weed repugnant.

come back when you're less dumb.

piddles out.

Wait I'm dumb because I don't believe legalizing weed is a good thing? I have seen what affects it has on people. Americans are lazy enough let alone legalizing weed and making the rest of the country lazy as well. You think the economy is bad now wait until people (who may have not smoked pot in a long time or have never smoked pot) start smoking pot and don't feel like working, they would rather sit around, eat chips and watch Ren and Stimpy for hours (Awesome show by the way).

So California has pretty much made smoking tobacco illegal but you want to legalize weed? How long do you think that will last before people turn on weed as well? This proposed solution would at best be a bandaid and people should be seeking a real, substantial solution rather than making a drug legal.

So I am not seeing the reason you are using medical patients to justify the legalization of marijuana. In those cases where weed is legalized for medical purposes it is doing a job, putting the patient in comfort while they may be suffering and now don't you think you're being a little selfish by using medical patients as a poster child for legalizing marijuana? Come on now your argument is rather weak. "Well people who are sick and suffering get to smoke it WHY CAN'T I? " Grow up time to be an adult.

Oh and by the way to show how badly you are at reading someone I don't drink alcohol. I used to when I was younger but since I turned 21 I haven't been a fan of alcohol. OOOOOH so close yet so far. Why do you jump to conclussions about me? How would you know that I find people who smoke pot repugnant? I don't really care if people smoke pot I just think it would be wise to make marijuana use legal.

Well sorry to come back so soon but I am no more "dumb" than I was before but I was never really dumb in the first place so there you have it. Sorry to rain on your "pot" parade.

Have a nice day.

reply to post by againuntodust


Well said, spoken like a true american. The infestation of more illegal people and less jobs concept, ruins a state. WELL LISTEN AND LEARN CALIFORNIA, before it's to late and other states take heed to this message also. OR BECCOME A FAILED STATE.

[edit on 21-6-2010 by nite owl]

Originally posted by Cool Breeze

Originally posted by piddles

1. wanting an important economy to fail and having an opinion about people from and the government of california are two different things

2. Did not blame the crisis on legalizing marijuana, I offered it as a self-sustaining solution rather than forcing the taxpayers to pony up the cash.

3, Marijuana is legal to medical patients who qualify in many states in the US. It makes it legal for a patient to purchase it at clinics, have up to six plants, and have up to 6 pounds of marijuana for personal use. if you took two seconds to google that, you'd know it.

4. no one said anything about robbery and assault, you're grouping it together as if it were the same thing. It's clearly apples and oranges but I'm glad you live in a world where "Reefer Madness" is a reality. Even Sarah Palin has a more open mind about this issue than you.

5. you didn't actually read anything I said, you skimmed over it.


I'm willing to bet you're an idiot wingnut who doesn't fact check anything that sounds like something you want to hear. I also bet you drink alcohol but find people who smoke weed repugnant.

come back when you're less dumb.

piddles out.

Wait I'm dumb because I don't believe legalizing weed is a good thing? I have seen what affects it has on people. Americans are lazy enough let alone legalizing weed and making the rest of the country lazy as well. You think the economy is bad now wait until people (who may have not smoked pot in a long time or have never smoked pot) start smoking pot and don't feel like working, they would rather sit around, eat chips and watch Ren and Stimpy for hours (Awesome show by the way).

So California has pretty much made smoking tobacco illegal but you want to legalize weed? How long do you think that will last before people turn on weed as well? This proposed solution would at best be a bandaid and people should be seeking a real, substantial solution rather than making a drug legal.

So I am not seeing the reason you are using medical patients to justify the legalization of marijuana. In those cases where weed is legalized for medical purposes it is doing a job, putting the patient in comfort while they may be suffering and now don't you think you're being a little selfish by using medical patients as a poster child for legalizing marijuana? Come on now your argument is rather weak. "Well people who are sick and suffering get to smoke it WHY CAN'T I?

" Grow up time to be an adult.

Oh and by the way to show how badly you are at reading someone I don't drink alcohol. I used to when I was younger but since I turned 21 I haven't been a fan of alcohol. OOOOOH so close yet so far.

Why do you jump to conclussions about me? How would you know that I find people who smoke pot repugnant? I don't really care if people smoke pot I just think it would be wise to make marijuana use legal.

Well sorry to come back so soon but I am no more "dumb" than I was before but I was never really dumb in the first place so there you have it. Sorry to rain on your "pot" parade.

Have a nice day.

edit: please see this footnote before reading:

I won't change the post but I want you to know that I realized I shouldn't direct any kind of hostility towards you, that is no way to debate. I suppose being harsh is the nature of man's struggle for dominance when it should be about coming to an understanding. It shouldn't be about trying to make someone feel stupid so much as it should be trying to convince them. So, respectively I retract any unnecessary rudeness, formally apologize (calling you dumb is no way to speak to you), and ask that for argument's sake we go beyond pettiness. any further replies will respect you as a person. thanks.
/edit

yes you are dumb because you don't think legalizing marijuana is a good thing. About as dumb as the amount of money spent enforcing the laws that criminalize people.

Also, I am a patient. I have had chronic migraines since I was 10, and a back injury when I was 18. I hate taking prescription painkillers because I don't like being incapacitated. Oh, and maybe I don't want to take corporate SYNTHESIZED HEROIN for the pain. Maybe I didn't like being persecuted by the police when I finally did discover marijuana? Maybe I think anyone who wants to try it and see if it works for them (like someone having a drink or taking pain medication) without being persecuted by the people they fund with their own tax dollars.

oh and I am an adult, in school, working in PA positions as well as for free to help my parents, taking care of my gf with her own medical conditions. I still manage to find time to make music, work on designing a video game (unreal and source engines respectively) and even check the news/ATS. If I'm sitting around, I'm doing something to better myself. It's nice that you live in a black and white world where everything is this certain way that you think it is and nothing else but truthfully, there's no future for this frame of mind.

It doesn't matter how well I'm reading you. I was making a point that everyone drinks alcohol, it's literally in the same drug class, it's hypocritical for it to even be illegal. Regardless of what you actually do, the point still remains.

oh, and "pretty much illegal" doesn't mean anything. It's legal or it's not, I just bought a pack of american spirits...so there's that. and there's the fact that it's not "pretty much illegal" so much as it is just heavily taxed. nice invalid point there. I don't even know what you mean by "turn on weed". If you mean people rallying for health concerns and making it more expensive/difficult to attain, then you've never heard of a free market.

The gov't could acknowledge that people are going to do it anyway, legalize it, tax the hell out of it like they do tobacco (I don't want this but I expect it), and capitalize on a growing industry. They could stop spending money on marijuana drug busts, and pleeease don't act like a giant day/month/year long police/whomever else operation isn't a waste of taxpayer money.

I know California is in a slump, I want it to end. You don't live here, you don't know anything about William Randolph Hearst and his smear campaign (heavily downplayed conspiracy theory imo), you know nothing of the numerous animals shot in these police raids, you don't know how profitable the industry has become just being medication, hell, you don't even know what stance to make

I don't really care if people smoke pot I just think it would be wise to make marijuana use legal

.

so what do you got? Oh right, you think America would just become lazy. Lazy than they already are now? Really? I find you're lack of research into your argument lazy and you don't even smoke. I don't see a billion dollar industry as a band-aid and it's insane to think otherwise.

[edit on 21-6-2010 by piddles]

[edit on 21-6-2010 by piddles]

reply to post by piddles


Fair enough, I understand your point of view I just do not agree with it. I am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine. Thats what makes us who we are, our opinions.

In my personal opinion, when a possibility of huge profits and taxes are in play what comes next... the lobbyists, and with the ammount of money that could be produced with the legalization of marijuana you can imagine the ammount of people willing to do whatever they can to get a foot hold in the market. I can imagine that the ammount of lobbyists would mimic big oil and big pharm if not shadow their numbers completely. Right off the bat they will weed out the "Ma and Pa" marijuana growers and distributers and all it will become is big pharm. They will then clamp down even harder on people attempting to grow their own stash due to the fact that they will be taking money from "the man". I just think that legalizing marijuana would not only make people more lazy and complacent than they usually are but it does have a great probability of corruption, greed and the world is already full of that.

reply to post by Cool Breeze


I disagree with how you see it's outcome. It's possible for there to be heavy regulation but I imagine they truly couldn't go beyond taxing per square acre, yield, sales, and/or licensing to become a vendor without violating the constitution. That's where the defense of private businesses argument would come into play. A legitimate business is a legitimate business, I imagine it would have to adhere to nearly identical standards as alcohol distribution. Even among medical patients, it is illegal to drive under the influence. The system established for patients, not opening any sort of container while not in the privacy of your home or a licensed establishment, etc (read prop. 215, consider it on a wider scale and compare it to the way alcohol is regulated, it's quite similar)

but I'll gladly defend to the death your right to disagree


edit: also people are allowed to grow their own tobacco as well as they would be allowed to grow marijuana. hell, what about people who brew their own beer? no one has to adhere to what the market has to offer if they grow it themselves, eventually competitors will have to compete with the ease of doing things yourself. the gov't can't bust into someone's house because they didn't pay some kind of insane britsh colony-esque, that would defeat one of the purposes of decriminalizing it, to stop wasting money on busting people

and the consumer wins.

[edit on 21-6-2010 by piddles]

reply to post by piddles


Well yes alcohol and tobacco can be made by a private entity but this would be on a whole new scale. I would compare it more with the oil industry. The demand would be so unbelievably high with legalizing marijuana that I can't see it going any other way. Its like if you were trying to start your own oil company, there is no way that anyone would let you do that. Way too much money to be made here and all that money would either be funneled through the government to a few "buddies" of the higher ups. They would know far in advance of a coming legalization and would "set up shop" in order to corner the market. It would all be controlled before it all even began.

reply to post by piddles


Oh sorry forgot to add...

Why do you think it hasn't been legalized yet? In my opinion because of the fact that they still haven't thought of an easy way to keep the "Ma and Pa" growers out of the picture. Once they do I can see them legalizing it and controlling it.

How can California survive this? How can California get out of the deep'end of all of this mess? Is it just a start of 'things to come' for other states in the U.S?

reply to post by gordonwest


Yes in a nutshell it is the begining of the domino effect. Once one goes all others will follow.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


A former head of the US Fish and Wildlife Service sent me this email, making it clear that he did not agree with California's economics!

The Governor of California is jogging with his dog along a nature trail.
A coyote jumps out, bites the Governor and attacks his dog.
>
> 1. The Governor starts to intervene, but reflects upon the movie "Bambi"
> and then realizes he should stop; the coyote is only doing what is
> natural.
> 2. He calls animal control. Animal Control captures coyote and bills the
> State $200 testing it for diseases and $500 for relocating it.
> 3. He calls a veterinarian. The vet collects the dead dog and bills the
> State $200 testing it for diseases.
> 4. The Governor goes to hospital and spends $3,500 getting checked for
> diseases from the coyote and on getting his bite wound bandaged.
> 5. The running trail gets shut down for 6 months while Fish & Game
> conducts a $100,000 survey to make sure the area is free of dangerous
> animals.
> 6. The Governor spends $50,000 in state funds implementing a "coyote
> awareness" program for residents of the area.
> 7. The State Legislature spends $2 million to study how to better treat
> rabies and how to permanently eradicate the disease throughout the world.
> 8. The Governor's security agent is fired for not stopping the attack
> somehow and for letting the Governor attempt to intervene.
> 9. Additional cost to State of California: $75,000 to hire and train a
> new security agent with additional special training re: the nature of
> coyotes.
> 10. PETA protests the coyote's relocation and files suit against the
> State.
>
>
> Arizona:
> The Governor of Arizona is jogging with her dog along a nature trail. A
> Coyote jumps out and attacks her dog.
> 1. The Governor shoots the coyote with her State-issued pistol and keeps
> jogging. The Governor has spent $0.50 on a .45 ACP hollow point cartridge.
>
> 2. The Buzzards eat the dead coyote.
>
> And that's why California is broke!

Hallelujah, even government bureaucrats are able to understand the underlying problem of California!

Originally posted by gordonwest
How can California survive this? How can California get out of the deep'end of all of this mess? Is it just a start of 'things to come' for other states in the U.S?

They can not get out if they are in debt and will be forced to settle for cents on the $ just like before.

Too many parasites will always, always kill the host and even if you own property they will put the land tax up so high that they will get to take that also.

Riots will only buy you time so may as well get the revolution over and done with if you ask me and in the mean time stack up on supplies and garden tools.

Originally posted by Cool Breeze
reply to post by piddles

 

Oh sorry forgot to add...

Why do you think it hasn't been legalized yet? In my opinion because of the fact that they still haven't thought of an easy way to keep the "Ma and Pa" growers out of the picture. Once they do I can see them legalizing it and controlling it.

I don't see how they could possibly find a way to beat growers short of making it cheaper and readily available so the convenience outweighs the savings from growing your own . People are allowed to make what they want if it's legal, that's irrefutable. It's all in a matter of whether or not they want to.

It hasn't been legalized because most people don't question why it is so. It's taught to us that it's as bad as coke or meth or is a gateway drug. Again, William Randolph Hearst, is the reason why it's still illegal

Hearst sympathized with Harry J. Anslinger in his war against marijuana. Between 1936 and 1937, Hearst associated marijuana with hemp in his newspapers and published many of the stories that Anslinger fabricated.[11] Hearst played a major part in aiding the anti-marijuana movement, leading to its prohibition in the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937,[12] a law which also effectively outlawed hemp.

again, a very downplayed conspiracy to keep something away from the american people.

reply to post by piddles


All they would have to do is make it a legal controlled substance.

(A controlled substance is generally a drug or chemical whose manufacture, possession, and use are regulated by a government)
Wiki

They could make it legal to have but illegal to manufacture, for the first couple of years you would have to maybe show a reciept from an "accepted" dealer and if not either tell them where you got it or face fines and possible imprisonment. They would play the safety card saying that there is no way of knowing what other growers use in growing their plants and there is no way of knowing short of having a gov. official smoke every joint or dime bag before it switches hands from the grower to the buyer lol. Well maybe I might be missing something but once again I think there is no way the government and their buddies would pass up all the money to be made, just taxing it wouldn't be enough, they are way too greedy.

There is a terrible amount of corruption in California, State, County, City, Police. Business. Hollyweird. We are surrounded by corrupt salesmen. Now the White House is resembling our state. Corruption with no remedy in sight. We write to the newspapers, but they are censored.
Lots of us here are good, decent people. At this point we stay home unless we are driving to work.
Costs five dollars to park on the side of the road in the foothills.
Just wrecked.