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$7-a-gallon gas?

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posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 08:08 AM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


I'm glad you posted the population density numbers, because it shows clearly the differences in the levels of urbanization of western Europe and much of the US. American drivers, on average, are going to have to drive much further for the same services as the average European.

I'd also remind everyone that not every American can afford to just run out and buy a more fuel efficient vehicle right now as it is. Tack another $200/month onto a person's fuel bill, the same for his electricity, and include inflationary pressures from increased shipping costs, and you're living in fantasy land if you believe a typical working class American making $12/hr can afford this.

It would be catastrophic for the tens of millions who are already just struggling to get by. But you're right, if you can ignore reality for a moment or, like this administration, you just don't care, I guess this is a good solution.




posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by vor78
reply to post by TheRedneck
 


I'm glad you posted the population density numbers, because it shows clearly the differences in the levels of urbanization of western Europe and much of the US. American drivers, on average, are going to have to drive much further for the same services as the average European.

I'd also remind everyone that not every American can afford to just run out and buy a more fuel efficient vehicle right now as it is. Tack another $200/month onto a person's fuel bill, the same for his electricity, and include inflationary pressures from increased shipping costs, and you're living in fantasy land if you believe a typical working class American making $12/hr can afford this.

It would be catastrophic for the tens of millions who are already just struggling to get by. But you're right, if you can ignore reality for a moment or, like this administration, you just don't care, I guess this is a good solution.


Yes those figures were very interesting and one of the reasons I love the spaced out US.

It may surprise you that many in the UK commute for many hours per day. I used to make a two hundred mile round trip for a number of years, every day. I dropped this to 85 miles and now I am down to 40 miles.

I cannot speak for the rest of Europe but in the UK the fuel prices just spiralled upwards quickly, we protested by picketting refinaries etc and the 'commie' government we had just made new rules making it illegal to pickett refinaries. The prices dropped for a while after this but have risen again to their highest ever value.

The gov didn't care that people couldnt afford to get around any more and food prices have risen sharply. Our haulage companies also protested and organised go-slows on the main highways.



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Well that's surely a good way to ignite spastic inflation. Just what America needs right now.


Btw, why do gas companies always have to make a profit? Doesn't a car maker take it on the nose when they screw up? Toyota comes to mind. But NOOOOO let the taxpayer pay for Big Oil's screw ups. :shk:


I agree with the spastic inflation but:
Well…sorry But I beg to differ on that one. The fed bailed out, then basically nationalized GM when Obama became president. Too the tune of some 6 billion dollars the first time around, to a total of 25 billion dollars. And lets not forget cash for clunkers.
That’s 125% of what BP is supposedly putting into a slush fund …. I mean an escrow account for are president to dole out to loyal democrats affected by the oil spill. Remember when GM was closing down dealerships across the US? The vast majority of them where in predominantly republican districts. Funny how that works isn’t it?

www.propublica.org...

www.washingtonexaminer.com...

money.cnn.com...

www.newstime.co.za...



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 09:00 AM
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reply to post by LightFantastic

I think, my friend, that perhaps I am seeing the bigger picture; it is frustrating sometimes when one seemingly cannot get a point across.

What you say has merit: the US does need to reduce it's dependence on foreign oil, absolutely! However, it does not need to do so through self-destructive means. Any attempt at this time to suddenly raise fuel prices would be self-destructive, and in the most catastrophic way imaginable. We are already in a deep recession; we need more opportunity for the people to make a living, not less. And the only way we have to travel, a necessary part of making a living, is via fossil fuels.

There are no other viable options at this time. Regardless of the country or region we are discussing, the primary energy source is fossil fuels. Hybrids are more efficient, yes. They are also underpowered and unable to do the heavier jobs, and still rely on fossil fuels. Electric vehicles may not have tanks to fill with gasoline, but they do use fossil fuels... where does that electricity come from?

I believe someday we will find a better way... hopefully soon. But we have not found that better way yet. There is a large group who refuse to accept that fact, and keep saying their mantra: "If we stop using oil, someone will give us clean energy". It's a nice sentiment; it is also untrue. Physics does have limitations.

But the thing that bothers me the most about threads like this perhaps, is how some people seem top believe that their life is applicable to all other situations. It isn't; people are different, circumstances are different, needs are different. A quick example: peanut butter is a very high-protein food. It's good for you. So shouldn't everyone have to eat some peanut butter once a week at least? No, because many people are allergic to the stuff! In the same vein, shouldn't we just all have to start using that bus that stops a block from my house to travel? No, because no bus stops a block from my house. Should everyone be forced to give $10,000 to the charity I gave $10,000 to? No, because others have different priorities, and some do not even have it to give.

That is the big picture, my friend. A solution must work for everyone, else it is an oppression.

As to the culture changing, of course it will. It already has. I used to go just riding around the countryside with friends in my youth, drinking beer and raising Cain... that is now a thing of the past. So is buying that beer form the local bootlegger; the stuff is legal now, and the bootleggers are no more (and the age requirement for purchase actually has some meaning). So are the Friday nights with the neighbors coming over to watch TV, since we were one of the first to have a set; now people visit less because of high gas prices, and everyone has a TV. These things changed, naturally, slowly, and while they may be missed, they did not destroy anyone's life.

This thread is about an unnatural, sudden, forced, major change that is also ill-advised on so many levels. In a scant 200 years, the USA went from being a rag-tag bunch of colonists trying to not die during the winters, to being a military superpower and technological beacon. It came about because of capitalism, regulated and controlled against abuse. It truly was a Great Experiment, and one that succeeded. Now, however, it seems everyone has a better way. And every time we try to use one of those better ways, it seems things get worse for the people. Today,we have unregulated capitalism, and a rigidly controlled and regulated society. Quite a difference.

The real difference is that instead of allowing change, now we try to enforce change, through taxation, regulation, social stigma... and people do not take well to force, as history has shown time and time again.

So here is all I am asking for in this thread: bring on the changes! But bring it in a realistic way to allow it to happen naturally, not with the force of law or guns or mass manipulation and propaganda. Show us a carrot and we will follow; show us a stick, and don't be surprised when we take it away and start using on you. Such are the lessons of history; may everyone reading this understand and rethink their attitude.

Lest we repeat the worst lessons history has tried to teach us.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by Doc Lithium
 


Is a big different between an oil producing country as US obviously is and one that depend on contracts and rights for drilling other nations oil.

The advantage that the UK have and the status of oil producer is due to the fact that they can extract oil in other nations.

In the US is not reason why we the tax payer have to forward money to subsided oil companies.

We have oil, more than what the government wants the citizens to believe still we are geared to believe that we depend in foreign oil because is all about the privatization of our oil rights to US base companies and foreign ones like BP.

In other words our own corporate run government is gouging the citizens of the nation for something that is actually a natural resource available in our soil.

Is a scam global warming is a scam and even if the profiteers raise the oil prices in the US to gouge the consumer we will still be Dependant on oil

Our oil backs our dollar. . .



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 09:37 AM
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Oh goodness, there is not going to be 7 dollars a gallon gas guys. You do realize politicians still want to get elected? No one is getting reelected with gas that high.



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 09:39 AM
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Those that wish this country to pay the same price or higher than other countries because of the usage involved in our economy have ignored one very major problem.
Some need to know that when it hit 4$/gal, 30% of the nations trucking companies went under and more than 30% of owner operators parked their rigs or let them be reclaimed by the finance companies because any profit they were making was now gone. They went bankrupt. Should gas reach the unprecedented price of 7-8 $/gal, Diesel fuel will be another dollar+ over that. No trucker in his right mind would even bother starting his rig OR PAYING FOR IT under those conditions. If you are getting payed .89/mile you are going in the hole by $2.00+/mile!
Construction, Transport or anything needed to fuel the economy comes to a complete standstill and no one would eat or be warm in the winter nor be pecking away at our keyboards here if that happens. This country would cease to exist.
Ant that ladies and gentlemen is exactly what the present administration wishes for this nation. Then they 'Remake' the US in their screwed vision of Utopia!

Zindo



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by antonia
 


That would be true IF we actually had elections that mattered. I do not feel that any election in this country will help us get out of the predicament we are now in any time in my life. With the Elite/Progressives now in so many of our government offices and bureaus, nothing we do will stop this juggernaut to oblivion of our Republic!

Zindo



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by ZindoDoone
reply to post by antonia
 


That would be true IF we actually had elections that mattered. I do not feel that any election in this country will help us get out of the predicament we are now in any time in my life. With the Elite/Progressives now in so many of our government offices and bureaus, nothing we do will stop this juggernaut to oblivion of our Republic!

Zindo


I didn't say elections would help the country get out of it's predicament. I said politicians are concerned with getting elected. No one is getting reelected with gas at 7 dollars a gallon. It just isn't happening. Washington fat cats are not going to put their jobs on the line. Unless you are saying that suddenly they are going to drop the pretense and be sacrificial lambs. In which case I'd just chuckle and tell you to look at their behavior over the last ten years.



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by LightFantastic
It may surprise you that many in the UK commute for many hours per day. I used to make a two hundred mile round trip for a number of years, every day. I dropped this to 85 miles and now I am down to 40 miles.


No, it doesn't surprise me, because its just a generality. There will be some exceptions. Still, the point remains. The average person living in the US is going to have to drive longer to have access to the same level of goods and services as a citizen of the UK or most western Europeans. Its just a logical function of population density and urbanization.

Its true here in the US as well. If I lived in a major US city, I probably wouldn't even own a vehicle, but its a little different when its more than a half hour drive to the nearest town with more than 5,000 people. This area (northern Arkansas) is nowhere near as sparsely populated as some of the western states, either. There's still no way this area would survive $7 gas, though. We barely made it when it was $4.



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by kybertech
 


And, what, there can't be money put into research on how to burn the waste to smaller levels? I mean come on use a little common sense, if we were to put money into alt-fuel sorces then obvously there would be research into getting the most out of nuclear waste, right? Like maybe reactors that sole purpose is to run on nuclear waste.



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by dbates


I know personally that the $4 a gallon gasoline from a couple of years ago was a killer. I often wonder if it's what started the current economic dip. Imagine what $7 a gallon gasoline would do. Everything from pickles to bubble gum would have to increase in price. The United States runs on oil. We use about 20 MBPD (Million Barrels Per Day) and choking the price before newer clean energy sources are available could be catastrophic.


Harder Than it Looks. Reducing oil consumption and carbon emissions from transportation is a much greater challenge than conventional wisdom assumes. It will require substantially higher fuel prices, ideally in combination with more stringent regulation.

Higher Gasoline Prices Essential. Reducing carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions from the transportation sector 14% below 2005 levels by 2020 may require gas prices greater than $7/gallon by 2020.

belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu...

The catch-22 of course is that other energy sources might not be created if we keep the price as low as it is today. Still the sudden increase in prices can't be the answer.

www.nypost.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



Without reading through several pages due to my impatience, sorry if this has already been said!

You are wining about paying $7 per gallon for Gas, we here in the UK are already paying nearly $10 and have been for years!

My car does 20 mpg and I put about $120 PER WEEK in my car (Honda CRV).

When I was working and driving visiting clients 4 days a week, I was putting in over $300 PER WEEK and I used to earn $700 per week.

So please don't complain about prices in the US.

I would be on the first plane over there from the UK if I could bring myself to walk out on my family, you guys have it really easy compared to us!



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 10:17 AM
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I really do hope this doesn't come to fruition. It would cost me roundabouts there of $35 to fill up my motorcycle.

::saddestface::



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by minkey53

When I was working and driving visiting clients 4 days a week, I was putting in over $300 PER WEEK and I used to earn $700 per week.

That means you were netting $400/week after fuel costs.

It might surprise you to discover that $400/week (~$20K/year) is about average for everyone here, gross. And we have to pay for gas and taxes out of that.

I'm on unemployment, drawing about $250/week, and raising a family of four. That includes a daughter who just finished college and a son who is starting dual enrollment.

It's called a 'recession'. Care to trade places now?

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 10:38 AM
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reply to post by dfens
 


Nope. The price of the product as used in the manufacture can easily be seperated from the price paid at the pump by the consumer. Thats easy, you do it through the application of fuel duty. You could even do it state by state with the more rural states paying less than others eg New York paying less.

You analogy is incorrect. High gas prices do not equate to leaky roofs...

[edit on 20-6-2010 by justwokeup]

[edit on 20-6-2010 by justwokeup]



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by Chance321
reply to post by kybertech
 


And, what, there can't be money put into research on how to burn the waste to smaller levels? I mean come on use a little common sense, if we were to put money into alt-fuel sorces then obvously there would be research into getting the most out of nuclear waste, right? Like maybe reactors that sole purpose is to run on nuclear waste.
Maybe it would be possible someday the problem is that you cannot predict if a scientifc breakthrough is concived and when. That it would be some day before this waste decays is obvious. But in the mean time?
Even more there are several technologies out there that could make any reactor except breeding reactors (there would be enough material for the to last longer then the sun) obsolete. Lookup nantenna technologies. This is basically a mylar foil with imprinted nanoscale antennas which can convert the sunlight nearly 100% effectively into electricity. It already works, but we don't have the means to rectify these high frequencies.
Furthermore if any technology except nuclear fisson would provide for the future energy needs it still would remain a burden even if we would have the means to transmute the material into harmless form. The current reason why nuclear fuel stops working is perfectly explained with newest physics, so if such a breaktrough would take place we would need a new theory about nuclear physics first.
So because of this the only rational reason why any country would build more nuclear powerplants is to gain more material for the production of nuclear weapons.
(Just look at the number of nuclear power plants in operation in any nuclear power, they are directly related...)



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


$250 per week is good because if you are unemployed here in the UK, you get $120 per week for 6 months only, it's called Job Seekers Allowance.

After 6 months, you're on your own because they say you should have found another job by then.

The $300 per week on Gas out of the $700 per week earnings is nearly, what, 45% of you salary, just on Gas. That's a big percentage and from what is said, we pay the highest Gas prices in the World (and other taxes).

I believe our new government is sorting out a few issues like the above so time will tell!

I still want to be in the US rather than the UK!

If I won the lottery, I definately would be on the first plane there, but would the US government simply let me buy a house, new car etc. and stay there for good?



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by Doc Lithium
but alternative fuels – like hydrogen – are banned with a very high penalty tax (€500 per day) if you get caught using them in traffic.



What? Are they really? I can find no evidence of Hydrogen cars being banned.

I know plenty of people using a variety of "aternative fuels", such as LPG, biodiesel, electric cars perfectly legally. Care to furnish any proof?



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 


The difference is between taxed alternative fuels and home made alternative fuels. The law is there to ensure the taxman gets his due.

You can put anything in as long as its duty paid.....



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by justwokeup
reply to post by stumason
 


The difference is between taxed alternative fuels and home made alternative fuels. The law is there to ensure the taxman gets his due.

You can put anything in as long as its duty paid.....


Evidently, you can modify your engine to run on cooking oil etc.

So if I do that, make a deal with the local restaurant to take all his old cooking oil off him and put it in my car, I am going to be chased by the taxman??

Doesn't seem right somehow, we get conned whatever we do!

Now where's that electric motorbike / scooter on Ebay?




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