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Saddam's WMD found in Jordan, the Netherlands and Turkey.

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posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 07:23 AM
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UN inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before war and after

www.worldtribune.com...

Friday, June 11, 2004
The United Nations has determined that Saddam Hussein shipped weapons of mass destruction components as well as medium-range ballistic missiles before, during and after the U.S.-led war against Iraq in 2003.

The UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission briefed the Security Council on new findings that could help trace the whereabouts of Saddam's missile and WMD program.

The briefing contained satellite photographs that demonstrated the speed with which Saddam dismantled his missile and WMD sites before and during the war. Council members were shown photographs of a ballistic missile site outside Baghdad in May 2003, and then saw a satellite image of the same location in February 2004, in which facilities had disappeared.

UNMOVIC acting executive chairman Demetrius Perricos told the council on June 9 that "the only controls at the borders are for the weight of the scrap metal, and to check whether there are any explosive or radioactive materials within the scrap," Middle East Newsline reported.
"It's being exported," Perricos said after the briefing. "It's being traded out. And there is a large variety of scrap metal from very new to very old, and slowly, it seems the country is depleted of metal."

"The removal of these materials from Iraq raises concerns with regard to proliferation risks," Perricos told the council. Perricos also reported that inspectors found Iraqi WMD and missile components shipped abroad that still contained UN inspection tags.

He said the Iraqi facilities were dismantled and sent both to Europe and around the Middle East. at the rate of about 1,000 tons of metal a month. Destionations included Jordan, the Netherlands and Turkey.

The Baghdad missile site contained a range of WMD and dual-use components, UN officials said. They included missile components, reactor vessel and fermenters the latter required for the production of chemical and biological warheads.
"It raises the question of what happened to the dual-use equipment, where is it now and what is it being used for," Ewen Buchanan, Perricos's spokesman, said. "You can make all kinds of pharmaceutical and medicinal products with a fermenter. You can also use it to breed anthrax."

The UNMOVIC report said Iraqi missiles were dismantled and exported to such countries as Jordan, the Netherlands and Turkey. In the Dutch city of Rotterdam, an SA-2 surface-to-air missile, one of at least 12, was discovered in a junk yard, replete with UN tags. In Jordan, UN inspectors found 20 SA-2 engines as well as components for solid-fuel for missiles.

"The problem for us is that we don't know what may have passed through these yards and other yards elsewhere," Buchanan said. "We can't really assess the significance and don't know the full extent of activity that could be going on there or with others of Iraq's neighbors."

UN inspectors have assessed that the SA-2 and the short-range Al Samoud surface-to-surface missile were shipped abroad by agents of the Saddam regime. Buchanan said UNMOVIC plans to inspect other sites, including in Turkey.

In April, International Atomic Energy Agency director-general Mohammed El Baradei said material from Iraqi nuclear facilities were being smuggled out of the country.

___________________________________________________________

They haven't mentioned Syria in that list. IMO, this begs the question, "Why the Netherlands?"




posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 07:27 AM
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Well, if he moved them DURING the war then wouldn't the army have stopped them being moved out of the country. On the first invasion they got control over most of the boarders and you would have thought the army would have had control over what goes in and out of the country, I am surprised they didnt see them being moved away, weapons of mass destruction can't exactly fit into your back pocket.
How the hell did Saddam get permission to hold these weapons in these countries to? These countries arn't exactly Iran and middle east countries either.

[edit on 12-6-2004 by Mspc]



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 07:31 AM
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My main question is why the hell didn't the US jump all over this during the war???? It seems that the Iraqis were moving this stuff out even after the war was over in May 2003... But, I guess the al Qaeda has a nasty arsenal of some deadly stuff in their hands now?



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by Mspc
Well, if he moved them DURING the war then wouldn't the army have stopped them being moved out of the country. On the first invasion they got control over most of the boarders and you would have thought the army would have had control over what goes in and out of the country, I am surprised they didnt see them being moved away, weapons of mass destruction can't exactly fit into your back pocket.


We can't even control our borders here, so it is simply wrong to think that we would have control of the borders there.

I am also sure that if the weapons were sold / moved from the country, they would disguise, hide, and make it difficult to recognize from the air or satellites. How many tractor trailers go in & out of the country on a daily basis?

Shortly after the war began numerous Iraqi army border soldiers simply abandoned their post and left the borders unsecured. At this time the coalition troops were far from being in the position of protecting the border


Time will tell if the report will open the door to what happened with the WMD's Iraq held. I am disappointed that the finds are minimal but will
give the coalition more time to try and locate the WMD's...but the clock is ticking...........



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by JacKatMtn

We can't even control our borders here, so it is simply wrong to think that we would have control of the borders there.



I want to also add that the US is not the only country fighting this war in Iraq. It is a coalition. To blame the US seems a bit unfair.

If the UN would have just approved the resolution and gone in with us in the first place, there would have been more troops and the possibility of the WMD being transported out would have been much less.

I'm still wondering why/how it was found in The Netherlands of all places! This seems very strange.



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 07:35 PM
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Sounds like propaganda, to shore up the conservative base. You know keep the morons thinking that Bush didnt really lie.



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 07:48 PM
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Originally posted by DiRtYDeViL
Sounds like propaganda, to shore up the conservative base. You know keep the morons thinking that Bush didnt really lie.


I'd agree with you in a heartbeat Dirt, but this is a report from the UN. Remember, the UN isn't exactly thrilled with the US after it exposed the UN Oil for Food Scandal? They want to bury Bush and bring in a Carter or Clinton. ("I want peace at any cost" or "I'm to busy to bother with this)

I admit I thought the same thing as you when I read it at first. After a little thought I realized that this is something that the UN could not hide.

Again, I wonder why the WMD's showed up in The Netherlands. I'm not sure if they are "with the US or against the US." But it does cause one to wonder on which side the Netherlands and if they knew this before the UN investigated it.



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 07:56 PM
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I look at it this way. I'll believe it when I see it. If the US supposedly knew where these things are and photographed the items dont you think they would have hit these items well in advance of the war? Of course they would have. The US on a number of occasions hit positions inside Iraq for one reason or another. I mean we take out radar sites and any jet that violates the no fly zone but we leave balistic missle sites intact? I'm not buying it.



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 07:59 PM
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We have heard many stories over the last year about wmd turn out to be junk. This may have merit, but it probably doesn't. If it does then we must invade the Netherlands right away!



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 08:01 PM
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No, this is not a report from the UN. It is a piece of selective trash journalism from the "World Tribune". Do a little research on what the World Tribune is and you can determine easily why this sees the light of day there and nowhere else.

It is ludicrous to consider that WMDs identified in precise locations and shown to the world on surveillance photographs by Colin Powell could be moved readily "during and after the war" while exhaustive full scale searches were supposedly conducted under US control.

If that were true, the Bush admin and senior military responsible for ensuring the security of US interests should be sacked today.

If anyone can provide a plausible explanation for this, it would add to the argument: "The UNMOVIC report said Iraqi missiles were dismantled and exported to such countries as Jordan, the Netherlands and Turkey. In the Dutch city of Rotterdam, an SA-2 surface-to-air missile, one of at least 12, was discovered in a junk yard, replete with UN tags."

Notice the loaded words "exported" and "replete with UN tags".

This is a load of bollocks, as expected from the no-news all-propaganda "World Tribune".



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 10:43 PM
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Really MA?
Propaganda?
Tabloid news?
I might would buy that "load of bollocks", as you call it, if it wasn't backed up by recent May 2004 Quarterly UN report. You know...the one I mis-labeled in another thread and you corrected me on? Btw, did you by chance get around to reading it?
15-Page UN Quarterly Report: May 2004

Seems that The L.A. Times, The Las Vegas Sun, and The New York Times are running comparative articles. Would they be considered propaganda mouthpieces or tabloids also?

I also noticed that you selectively mentioned those items "replete with UN tags". Interesting. You must have missed what was also said:


....It also discovered "a large number of other processing equipment without tags, in very good condition."

Engines Used in Missiles Found in Jordan

I, again, also noticed you mentioned Mr. Collin Powell. Interesting. Here is what Mr. Collin Powell said before the UN concerning this topic:


UNMOVIC has also reported that Iraq has illegally important 380 SA-2 (ph) rocket engines. These are likely for use in the al-Samud II (ph). Their import was illegal on three counts. Resolution 687 prohibited all military shipments into Iraq. UNSCOM specifically prohibited use of these engines in surface-to-surface missiles. And finally, as we have just noted, they are for a system that exceeds the 150-kilometer range limit.

Worst of all, some of these engines were acquired as late as December after this council passed Resolution 1441.

Text Of Powell Speech To U.N.--Part 2

Here is Part 1 of the Text:
Text Of Powell Speech To U.N.

Further propaganda, but by whom here MA?



seekerof

[edit on 12-6-2004 by Seekerof]



posted on Jun, 13 2004 @ 12:03 AM
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^^ ouch... Good catches Seeker



posted on Jun, 13 2004 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Really MA?
Propaganda?



Yes, really, of the worst kind.

You are now assembling a bunch of unrelated material of various ages to back a position that does not exist.



posted on Jun, 13 2004 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
No, this is not a report from the UN. It is a piece of selective trash journalism from the "World Tribune".


I believe the Tribune is reporting on a briefing by the UN to the Security council: "The UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission briefed the Security Council on new findings"

It has been reported elsewhere, however I have not seen it on CNN yet. Who knows why? A possibility might be that since the WMD' s were one of the "talking points" the democrats had against Bush, that they prefer this is kept low key? Perhaps because of what countries Saddam's WMD's were found?



posted on Jun, 13 2004 @ 05:11 PM
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HEAR! HEAR! MA

Seeker doesn't call himself "Spinmaster" for nothing.

A good example is the alleged rocket engines, found in shipment of scrap metal purchased for processing in Rotterdam. Only goes to prove shoddy oversight yet again in the inspection/dismantling of WMDs.

Each incident can be similarly debunked. Don't feel like wasting my time now to offer further examples. It's just not worth it. People will believe whatever they want to believe and find all the supporting evidense they need to reinforce their stance.



posted on Jun, 13 2004 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by scottsquared
HEAR! HEAR! MA
People will believe whatever they want to believe and find all the supporting evidense they need to reinforce their stance.


I guess the same can be said for those who do not support the war in Iraq also.

See, I see it as a pretty "cut and dry" situation. Either there is WMD or there isn't. WMD has been found in these three countries and originated out of Iraq. So...there is and was WMD.

How can one "spin" this? Next there will be a "vast right-wing conspiracy."



posted on Jun, 13 2004 @ 06:12 PM
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So, assuming there were WMDS, thats still not addressing the fact that the US knew these military installations existed and did nothing about what they thought existed there. I mean, is the government that incompetent, oh yea, they are...

[edit on 13-6-2004 by Jamuhn]



posted on Jun, 13 2004 @ 06:16 PM
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PAHHHLEEEZZE!!!

Of course they had WMDs! No-one has ever disputed that. Heck, the Pentagon could show you the sales receipts from arms that we sold them. So could Whitehall. The point was; just when and how were the rocket engines in the example disposed?

Please don't try throwing this stuff right back at me! Get your own argument!

Now I'm taking MY ball and I'm going HOME!



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 05:35 AM
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Originally posted by sosuemetoo
See, I see it as a pretty "cut and dry" situation. Either there is WMD or there isn't. WMD has been found in these three countries and originated out of Iraq. So...there is and was WMD.

How can one "spin" this? Next there will be a "vast right-wing conspiracy."



First off, Colin Powell in justifying the imminent invasion of Iraq stated where the WMDs were specifically located, and that they were capable of being deployed within 40 minutes as a threat to the US - that is, that there was a clear and present danger. He lied. This was not some "poor intelligence", it was a lie.

Secondly, the Bush administration tried to dilute its initial position by recanting on deployable WMDs and stating that there was "evidence of weapons programs". They fooled Joe Public including yourself, but they did not fool the people that caught them out the first time.

Thirdly, the search for WMDs for over 450 days has revealed nothing in Iraq at all except mobile weather stations and materials predating the first Gulf War. They now clutch at straws with any glimpse of any dated weapons "program" anywhere. The whole basis for the invasion was a LIE.

That is how to spin this. That is what has sucked you in.

Yes, it's cut and dry. The Bush admin lied to you, continues to lie to you, and you take it hook, line and sinker.

Good precise point on timing, scottsquared, conveniently overlooked by Bush sycophants.



[edit on 14-6-2004 by MaskedAvatar]



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 07:24 AM
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Here, Here, MA.

If these weapons existed at the time of the war, what stopped Saddam from using them.

and now the US, are using UN evidence to try and prove their existence, after slagging off the UN and ignoring their resolutions and stopping the UN monitor's from doing what they should have been left to do.



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