Sweet Innocent Gaza flotilla my butt...

Originally posted by JIMC5499
If I was running things in Israel, next time I'd just use a sub.

I so agree, just have some fake reports saying it was somewhere else. If they really want to send supplies to the terroists, they can find a different way, they were warned that they were going into a declared no-navel zone (or what ever they call it) and that they may be opened fire upon, they were just lucky that they decided to try a commanddo raid first.

Just my opinion

reply to post by alaskan


In response to your submitted video;

There is no evidence of 'shots being fired'.

There is, however the sound of a crowd control munition going off.

I have read the BS about Israeli Commandos shooting wildly from a trapdoor in the bottom of the blackhawk too, which again is BS.

Can you see any footage of this taking place? No

All we see in that submitted video, is, a crowd control munition going off and then a guy shooting at the blackhawk with a catapult.

The video footage then conveiniently skips the boarding process to pick up where the 'activists' have been injured or killed after the boarding.

This is typical of RT and Al'jazeera footage; Chronologically messing around with the footage to portray a different order of events.

Its clear if you examine it.


[edit on 20-6-2010 by Skellon]

Originally posted by strangleholder1
reply to post by crmanager

 

You couldn't be more wrong, you have NO UNDERSTANDING OF THE WORLD AND WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A HUMAN BEING......

Worst thread topic I've EVER! seen on ATS.....

The world is not puppies and kittens no matter how bad you want it to be.

Originally posted by Eliad
reply to post by name pending

 

What continuous track record? What are you talking about? Name some cases of manipulation, with proof...

You can start with this document prepared in 2003 for pro-Israel activists by the public relations firm "The Luntz Research Companies and The Israel Project". The motive of the document speaks for itself to manipulate people's perception by preparing tactics that Israel and its advocates should use to maintain support for Israel and its hardline policies, to bring more aid to Israel and justify Israel's stand. The report mentions talking points for pro-Israel activists to use to verbally assault the anyone against Israeli policies. It was to be distributed among the dozens of pro-Israeli organizations within the United States.
"Wexner Analysis: Israeli Communication Priorities 2003,"

or the more refined propaganda manual made by the same institution in 2009. The booklet is labeled The Israel Project's 2009 Global Language Dictionary.

Exactly.. How can you stop a moving ship without boarding it?

Again, Israel does not have any right t stop the boat in international waters, it's called piracy.

By the way, when he was talking about the two options he was talking about either reaching Gaza, or die as martyrs.

It's obvious isn't it? If the IDF soldiers attacked they had more chances of being killed which infact turned out to be true with the death of 9 activists.

It was screened by Turky, if I'm not mistaken, and that's hardly NATO..

Turkey is a NATO member and yes it's being screened by NATO.

Also those violent activists

Source or back up your claims they were violent and didnt act for self defense.

boarded on a different location and after the inspection (according to some of the other activists.. Could be a lie though..).

Does that mean you cannot backup your this claim and it's a hearsay?

Lastly weapons were found, metal rods (which were dismantled off the ship), knives (not just kitchen knives..), etc.That means the inspection wasn't good enough.

Source or provide proof that they all were not knives used on boat equipment or kitchen.

I have yet to see any solid proof on that. I actually have many points to counter that:
Why aren't there any bodies on deck at the moment of the attack? Did they shoot at the boat, then wait for the activists to clear the bodies, and only then boarded?
Why are people standing around waiting for the commandos on the deck? Even if they are ready to defend themselves, shouldn't they at least be taking cover? And they expected the commandos to shoot them?! Have you ever been under fire? No one would stand like that in the open when threatened with live fire.

Simple reason, after firing live rounds on boat and killing few activists when they started to descend on the boat and the firing would have stopped so it does not hit any IDF soldiers. That's when they were grabbed and disarmed by activists.

Footage is much more accurate then people's stories.

Yes it is and the new smuggled out hour long video does prove everything I stated above.

Again, what proof do you have?

What proof do you have it was not so?

From what I've heard the activists who weren't violent tried to save the soldiers from being massacred.

Actually you have only heard and seen what you wanted to see from Israeli sources.

All you have is stories, all I have is stories.

I think you should speak for yourself which does fall in the story area.

I'll ask you this though, do you really think a trained commando with a pistol would not be able to shoot and kill anyone that gets close to them?
Highly unlikely.

I guess 9 bodies are not enough?

Also can you confirm this point blank rumors?

lol rumors!! Google is your friend but here

The results revealed that a 60-year-old man, Ibrahim Bilgen, was shot four times in the temple, chest, hip and back. A 19-year-old, named as Fulkan Dogan, who also has US citizenship, was shot five times from less that 45cm, in the face, in the back of the head, twice in the leg and once in the back.

[edit on 22-6-2010 by name pending]

Most of the activists on board were peaceful.. And actually stopped the violent ones from killing the soldiers. Those peaceful activists had no part in the violence.

Proof to backup your claims that activists stopped their fellow activists from killing soldiers? Any activist has spoken this? Or is it yet again what you heard?

Bull#, I saw the list in the video, it was intel on what people were on board, delegations, how big was the ship, etc. And it wasn't even about that ship, it was about a different one.

Turkish Sources – Israeli Advance Target Assassination List Found on Flotilla

Do you really think they were expected to remember all these faces, and be able to not shoot them in the heat of a battle? Seriously? Are they robots now?

Did I not mention the list that images of people? I thought you said you saw the list on video.

The UN has no authority on this issue.

.
wrong (see below)

This is a matter of international law..

The United Nations Organization (UNO) or simply United Nations (UN) is an international organization whose stated aims are facilitating cooperation in international law, international security, economic development, social progress, human rights, and the achieving of world peace.

. Just to add to your trolling attempt Israel has authority over the issue of international law?

Also there's no more occupation in Gaza,

It is occuation when Israel can come over to Gaza and kill, kidnap anyone. It is occupation when Israel does not allow anyone to come in or out.

and the blockade only stops things like chocolate, not aid. In fact, Israel provides more aid in half a week than what was on that ship. So the aid thing is bull#..

Only for you it is bull# because you are sitting in Israel enjoying yourself not in the worlds biggest concentration. Also to the contrary Israel bans most of the aid

Mr. Ban said at a news conference that the United Nations was trying to get relief supplies to nearly one million people daily, but that Israel was only allowing one border crossing to open, permitting trucks with supplies for only about 30,000 people to get through.

U.N. Chief Says Israel Is Blocking Most Gaza Aid

Also why not get it through Israel or Egypt? Both were willing to deliver free of cost!

Okay I will play along,
1. Israel confesticates items
2. Egypt is in tando with Israel since it receives US aid to support Israel.

I honestly don't know what the truth is, but had these people been given their tapes they would have made the truth seem like whatever they want to.
Editing is easy. Besides Israel doesn't want videos of their beaten commandos online. The truth is no sane government would have let anyone off with their tapes after an event like this, regardless of what happened.

Really but doesn't Israel always potrays holocaust images worldwide and promotes people to see them eventhough it was bigger tragedy? Truth does not fear investigation and I mean an independent investigation.

I have yet to find any proof to this claim.

Gaza convoy tapes edited, Israel acknowledges

How? You can see them descending on the ship, no bodies on deck, no one's hiding or taking cover..Also I've seen this hour long video.. There's no proof on it! Have you seen it? There's just clanking in the background.. Doesn't even sound like guns, and no one's acting as if they're shot at..It's just too hard to believe these people were shot at.. I've seen how people act in these situations...

Ocourse it will hard for you to believe that activists were shot but easily able to believe that they shot themselves in the back.

Wrong.

Not at all since Israel does not accept Hamas as legitimate government it cannot enforce blockade on a enemy entity. Also under Section 1 Article 33 of Geneva Conventions

Collective punishments
Article 33. No protected person may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.

Right, and you are what? An unbiased observer?

Since you did not refute my point it would point that you accept that Israel sent agents to post pro Israeli topic on internet. And yes I am an unbiased observer since I am not "instructed" and "paid" to post my views.

I'm hoping that this investigation will somehow manage to bring the truth to light in a manner that's unequivocal.

Which investigation? The one Israel govt. is running currently including a foreign pro-Israeli observer and rejecting a independent investigation? Talk about the accused judging themselves.


[edit on 22-6-2010 by name pending]

The Free Gaza group says it will continue to challenge the blockade. Construction items are on the "banned" list. Until the blockade is declared illegal in international court, then Israel has the right to enforce it. And the flotillia knew this. THey didn't attempt to go through proper channels, or send limited building materials in and allow the UN to take charge of the materials so it doens't go to Hamas. WHich israel allows. THey simply decided to run the blockade. THey took the risk, they knew what would happen. They paid dearly for it.

Israel has allowed ships from the Free Gaza Group through 5 times. WHy not just attempt to go through proper channels like all the legitimate aid organizations do? Because they wanted to make a statement.

reply to post by crmanager



You seem to forget that the aid ship was attacked by gun fire long before the ship was boarded in international waters



This comes for a jewish MP so did it realy suprise you that the passengers did now welcome the cowards abord to hugs and kisses.

Good try but the truth has a habit of coming out

[.

These guys DESERVED their butts being handed to them for running the blockade.
That might be true if the blockade were legal under international law. Since it is not legal Israel was the agressor. The folks on the ship had a perfect right to protect themselves. They easily could have killed a number of commandos but did not.