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Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in Oklahoma

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posted on Jun, 18 2010 @ 04:23 AM
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"Oklahoma is poised to become the first state in the nation to ban state judges from relying on Islamic law known as Sharia when deciding cases.

The ban is a cornerstone of a "Save our State" amendment to the Oklahoma constitution that was recently approved by the Legislature.

The amendment -- which also would forbid judges from using international laws as a basis for decisions -- will now be put before Oklahoma's voters in November. Approval is expected.

There are many interpretations of what Sharia means , but in some countries strict interpretations "are used to justify cruel punishments such an amputation and stoning as well as unequal treatment of women in inheritance, dress and independence," according to the Council on Foreign Relations. "

More Here: abcnews.go.com...

I believe this is how it should be. If you are in America you need to abide by and allow yourself to be governed by American laws.

Other countries would expect me to abide by their laws. In Somalia I would be expected to abide by Sharia law. They would not take American laws into account if I broke their law.

This is only fair and just and I applaud Oklahoma for pushing this through. Every state should adopt a law like this. In fact, i believe this should be a federally mandated law across the whole country.




posted on Jun, 18 2010 @ 04:30 AM
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Just out of interest is Sharia Law practised in any other states of the US? I know we have Sharia Law as well as Orthodox Jewish Laws that certain communities rely on for sorting out arbitury cases here in the UK.

I don't really see a problem with it, as it doesn't really effect my life. All cirtizens of the UK are subject to the same laws, if any crime is committed.



posted on Jun, 18 2010 @ 04:38 AM
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first off I would like to point out
that I do not see this as demeaning Islam
or it's religious principals. It's just eliminating
it's laws from conflicting with our own.
At least that is the way I understand it.
I think it's a good idea.



posted on Jun, 18 2010 @ 04:38 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


I do not know at present, but I do know there are tons of Muslim communities in the United states, and who is to say of those how many are the extremist who practices this Sharia law.

I think the motivation here is to stop something before it can begin that would allow a group's beliefs to harm another human being.

I understand in some places, if your a Muslim who lives in a community under sharia law, then when you break a law, you answer to a strictly Sharia Law court, despite whatever country you happen to be in. This law would prevent U.S. courts from deferring a case to a Sharia court where harm could possibly come to a person. In other words, break a law in this country, you only answer to our courts and our laws.



posted on Jun, 18 2010 @ 04:41 AM
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reply to post by JohnPhoenix
 




I believe this is how it should be. If you are in America you need to abide by and allow yourself to be governed by American laws.


You make me laugh, what is American laws?

Who made American laws?

Ohh wait, it was the freaken people, ohh sh1t, what if one day all 80% of America becomes Muslim...

Ohhh damn, what would that mean, which American law are you gonna follow? American law?



posted on Jun, 18 2010 @ 04:50 AM
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reply to post by LittleSecret
 


"The People" do not make American laws. They are made by legislators the people appoints who we believe will act in the best interest of America as a whole in keeping with the principles this country was founded on and our U.S. Constitution.

If 80% of The United States becomes Muslim, which is very unlikely, it would no longer be The United States of America. Our U.S. Constitution forbids this stripping of our sovereignty from happening.



posted on Jun, 18 2010 @ 05:07 AM
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Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
reply to post by LittleSecret
 


"The People" do not make American laws. They are made by legislators the people appoints who we believe will act in the best interest of America as a whole in keeping with the principles this country was founded on and our U.S. Constitution.

uuuuqqqqqqhhhhh
If you can say above word, then you can comprehend what I'm talking about.

See legislators are still people? Or are they aliens who know the best interest for America? Wait, wait, people chose the those aliens, so if 80 % of people were Muslims they would chose based on what they feel is the best interest for America?




If 80% of The United States becomes Muslim, which is very unlikely, it would no longer be The United States of America. Our U.S. Constitution forbids this stripping of our sovereignty from happening.

Why would it no longer be the United States of America? What is United States of America, we need to set that definition.

I thought that was just a name, or is United States of America more than a name, is it a GOD?

I suppose that is the 21st century Idolatry, think about it, you pray for the USA (hence your national anthem), you work for USA, you die for USA, you live for USA...

How naive..

How does 80% of America rid United States of America from its sovereignty?



posted on Jun, 18 2010 @ 06:30 AM
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reply to post by LittleSecret
 


You've gone from ridiculous to annoying. I will not engage in senseless bantering with you. I will not let you derail my topic. I'm putting you on Ignore.

This thread is here for those who appreciate the news and value the American way of life.



posted on Jun, 18 2010 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint
first off I would like to point out
that I do not see this as demeaning Islam
or it's religious principals. It's just eliminating
it's laws from conflicting with our own.
At least that is the way I understand it.
I think it's a good idea.


I agree. And it's not every Muslim faction that openly interprets Sharia law to the maximum extreme, such as when those poor guys were killed for watching a soccer game.

I think theyhave a hard time determining which of the peoples pratice this extreme so they do this as a caution.

Also, the author singled out Sharia Law, because it's often in the news This law would keep the U.S Courts from being able to use/site/refer to others countries laws as well.. I don't think the proposal singles out Sharia Law.



posted on Jun, 18 2010 @ 10:48 PM
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Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
reply to post by LittleSecret
 


You've gone from ridiculous to annoying. I will not engage in senseless bantering with you. I will not let you derail my topic. I'm putting you on Ignore.

This thread is here for those who appreciate the news and value the American way of life.


Ohh nooo I have been put in ignore hahah

They say ignorance is a bless because it is, the less you know, the better you feel, the better life you have, away from all the worries.

By the way, does anyone know what is the value of the American way of life?

Does the American way of life change values if the people constructing it change mentalities?

Like for example if Americans change mentalities from A to B, would the American way of life have the same value as before, or would it be regarded as something different.

Does the constructor has to have certain mentality in order for it to be called an American way of life.

Propaganda works in mysterious ways, and I know why they spread such propaganda, there is a huge benefit when your nations becomes a GOD, and your ideals become static.



posted on Jun, 18 2010 @ 10:52 PM
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I'm pretty certain this is redundant. There's no tradition of using Sharia Law in our system. It's simply not a part of any of our legal codes.



posted on Jun, 18 2010 @ 11:24 PM
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...johnphoenix, you failed to put the title of the news article in there correctly...maybe it was an oversight... the correct title is below...

Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

...the "ah" up there may not be important to you but, i'm sure, the author had a reason for using it in the title... the subtitle was - Oklahoma Calls Ban on Islamic Law a 'Preemptive Strike'... isnt that interesting?... who would do such a thing and why?... lets see if we can figure it out...

...from the article...


Oklahoma has few Muslims – only 30,000 out of a population of 3.7 million. The prospect of sharia being applied there seems remote. But a chief architect of the measure, Republican State Rep. Rex Duncan, calls the proposed ban a necessary "preemptive strike" against Islamic law coming to the state.


...another republican calling for a preemptive strike on people who have done us no harm!... holy cow, thats shocking!...

www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071023_1_a1_spanc46170


Rep. Rex Duncan, R-Sand Springs, wrote his fellow legislators that he is refusing a copy of the Quran because, “Most Oklahomans do not endorse the idea of killing innocent women and children in the name of ideology.”



Duncan, a lieutenant colonel in the Oklahoma National Guard, countered: “I know that not all Muslims are terrorists, but I don’t know of another religion or ideology that employs terrorism and the threat of terrorism




This spring, the Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma distributed copies of a centennial Bible. Duncan said he was pleased to receive the Bible. “I don’t know any Christians who run around using the Bible as their basis of justification or instruction booklet to keep killing innocent people,” he said


...okay, so now we know - he's ONE OF THOSE... tsk, tsk, tsk...



posted on Jun, 18 2010 @ 11:38 PM
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reply to post by JohnPhoenix
 



If 80% of The United States becomes Muslim, which is very unlikely, it would no longer be The United States of America. Our U.S. Constitution forbids this stripping of our sovereignty from happening.


Interesting. Could you go in more details why it wouldn't be the USA?

Also, how does the Constitution forbid?



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 02:12 AM
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John, I very rarely post on ATS, but the recent threads filled with ignorance on Islam have brought me out of my lurking habits. I must also mention that I am a practicing Muslim and was also born and raised in America.

To begin, Sharia commonly refers to the sacred laws of Islam, and it is usually mentioned when discussing societal laws. However, it also broadly covers the rights and duties of Muslims from the role of the government to personal conduct.

Sharia and American laws are NOT mutually exclusive.

One quick example:

The Bayt-al-Mal, as implemented by Muhammad and the first generation of Muslim rulers, was a part of Sharia that is very similar to our system of welfare. The government would provide an income to the poor, disabled, elderly, orphans etc. The money used in this welfare system was collected from Zakat and Jizya (taxes from Muslims and non-Muslims, respectively). If we truly want to distance ourselves from Sharia, should the government end Social Security? Should it stop giving grants and scholarships to university students? Or, should we just completely get rid of taxes since they are too similar to Sharia laws? This is only one example out of many.

Futhermore, the consensus of Islamic scholars throughout history state that the goals of Sharia are to protect life, religion, intellect, wealth, and family. In fact, the philosopher John Locke was influenced by Sharia while studying under Edward Pococke. This influence eventually led him to state that man has 3 natural rights: life, liberty, and estate. Eventually, our own Founding Fathers were influenced by Locke and his concept of natural rights when they declared independence from Britain and formed our Constitution. So, should we completely disregard the Constitution due to the "taint" of Sharia influence?

As LittleSecret wrote, American laws are in a constant state of change. Even our own Constitution has been amended 27 times! If the large majority of Americans, whether or not they are Muslims, decide to accept Sharia, why not adopt it? It would not make us any less American. It would only be proof of the success of the American democratic system--the fact that the people, through their representatives, choose what laws they follow.

Also, aside from certain commandments laid out in the Qur'an and Practices of Muhammad, Sharia is fairly elastic. You said it best, "There are many interpretations of what Sharia means." If America decided to suddenly follow the Sharia, I honestly don't think there would be too many drastic changes to our style of government. Sharia promotes democracy, as seen in the Election of Uthman, the 3rd Caliph. And, there is nothing in Sharia against checks and balances, separation of powers, three branches of governments, states' rights, minority rights etc. (I mention those specifically because they are some of what make American government unique).

I am tired of the close-mindedness I see in this country valued for its liberty. Oklahoma is acting out of fear because of a lack of understanding. People, stop listening to the garbage news you hear about Islam and Sharia. Stop jumping to the conclusion that Sharia means you'll end up like the people in Saudi Arabia or Iran. They are NOT Sharia--they are oppressive dictatorships, which are go against true Islamic values as laid out by the Qur'an and Muhammad. Islam promotes tolerance, justice, and mercy. Don't take my word for it. Go take a class on Islam. Go to a mosque and ask a Muslim scholar about Sharia. Do some honest research--don't just go by what you heard or read on the internet or in the media.

Sorry about the length...



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 02:30 AM
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reply to post by muftanan
 


So you deny that so many Americans WERE killed from what happened on 9/11 from the "most peaceful religion of Islam?"

And do you deny the facts that the terrorists, who_are muslims do hurt and kill all in the name of Islam?

I am sorry to be "ignorance on Islam", because of what_is happening.



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 02:58 AM
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reply to post by gordonwest
 


No, I don't deny that thousands of innocent Americans were killed on 9/11. I don't deny that dozens of peaceful, innocent Muslims also died that day. I don't deny that mainstream Islamic leaders and groups immediately condemned the attack (see: www.islamicity.com... ). I don't deny that the terrorists were Muslim. But I also don't deny that they followed an extreme, perverted form of Islam similar to the deviant Khawarij, who also advocated unjustified violence during the time of Caliph Ali, a companion of the Muhammad. Over 1 billion people practice Islam. If it weren't peaceful, we would be in the middle of WW3 right now.

By the way, do you deny that America and its allies have killed thousands of Afghan civilians and thousands of Iraqi civilians in the name of freedom?

My post had nothing to do with 9/11 or the motives of the murderers on that day. I wrote about the similarities between Sharia and American law.



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 03:03 AM
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Any judge who uses Sharia law should be thrown off the bench and brought up on charges of treason! Course many of them should be anyway for not following thier state constitutions but this is just outrageous that Oklahoma has to pass a law they should just arrest the friggen judge. If Muslims want to live under Sharia law then let them go live in a country where it is practiced as the law of the land. It has no place here on American soil!

[edit on 19-6-2010 by hawkiye]



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 03:10 AM
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Whatever happened to the concept of "Seperation of Church and State" in governance issues. Sharia Law is based on tents of the Muslim/Islamic faith so it would inherently be a violation of Federal Law and hence state law also?



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 03:12 AM
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I thought the pilgrims came to America to seek Religious freedom...



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 03:20 AM
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reply to post by jbmitch
 


You bring up a really good point. American government is based on separation of church and state. Therefore, Sharia cannot be implemented due to its Islamic nature.

That said, Sharia and American laws do have a lot in common, especially if you look at their overall goals, i.e. protection of life, wealth, religion, justice etc. In my above post, I was trying to point out some of the similarities.





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