Would you sell out your race?

Disclaimer, not a racist, just pointing out what I believe to be a legitimate conspiracy.

I have been thinking about how blacks in this country (U.S.) are held down. Though there are many reasons for this, one struck me as very legitimate. I have always heard the following reasons, poverty, single parents, drugs, gangs. It all makes sense. At the same time one thing that has never made sense to me is why they (blacks, African Americans) can't seem to overcome it. I finally picked up on a reason that is hardly ever reported for reasons that I can't understand. Rap!

I was talking to one of my black coworkers today and while we were talking I took note of how hard it was to understand him. He would have to repeat things 3 or 4 times before I picked up enough to understand. I also noticed this about the other black coworkers. Later on in the evening I tuned into some rap and immediately noticed the slang that is tossed around. Most of it is nearly impossible to understand. I actually found myself browsing the urban dictionary quite a few times.

I found a conspiracy in all of this naturally. In order to make millions of dollars making hip hop songs one must be willing to speak in a way that makes no sense and even make up words as they go along. All this time I have thought that the reason they (rappers) made up the slang was to make the rhymes flow smoother. The end result is the grammatical destruction of the youth. When you hear this daily, you will end up speaking it daily. Examples, (In the south we speak slow, North speaks quicker, accents are abundant all over).

Here is the problem. In a job interview, you can fake speaking well with yes or no questions, but the minute (the employer) needs you to speak a bit more, you would be unable to flip a switch to magically make you speak proper. You essentially would be screwed. It is a cold hard truth but makes sense. Personally, I wouldn't hire someone that I couldn't understand. You can get low skilled jobs or mechanic work, but what about these big time jobs. It is kinda hard to get by with a giant vocabulary in slang and a limited vocabulary in proper English.

This post is just to get some of you guys thinking about this issue though. I am not black but have had many black friends and I know of their problems. Unfortunately this is one I cannot bring up without being labeled a racist or some other sort of nonsense. Hope you enjoyed reading. Now dine on some Bill Hicks and George Carlin: warning, these videos contain adult material not suitable for kids. Language, Parental discretion is advised.



[edit on 18-6-2010 by ventian]

There's an old article from 2003 called "How Hip Hop Holds Blacks Back" that talks about exactly that. It's a pretty good read and addresses the questions you raised. I'm new here so I'll try and post the link, not sure if it will work though. www.city-journal.org...

Black people are held back by a (imo bad) genre of music?

What kind of music are whites listening to then?

reply to post by ventian

Ventian,

I know of but one race I belong to and that is the human race...

More stipulation, in my opinion, is not necessary. But since people really have the need to belong to a certain group it isn't surprising that a specific lingo is a nice way of expressing your connection with this group.

It's actually pretty sad that people are so insecure that the feel the need to put themselfs in these d*mn boxes....

S+F for the thread.

Peace

[edit on 18-6-2010 by operation mindcrime]

Originally posted by draevin
Black people are held back by a (imo bad) genre of music?

What kind of music are whites listening to then?

Whites, usually country or rock. The white hip hop community (usually dubbed whanksta) has enough money from their suburban parents to get them far enough in life. George Bush Jr. for example would have listened to Tupac if he grew up in my time.

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
reply to post by ventian

 

Ventian,

I know of but one race I belong to and that is the human race...

More stipulation, in my opinion, is not necessary. But since people really have the need to belong to a certain group it isn't surprising that a specific lingo is a nice way of expressing your connection with this group.

It's Actually pretty sad that people are so insecure that the feel the need to put themselfs in these d*mn boxes....

S+F for the thread.

Peace

[edit on 18-6-2010 by operation mindcrime]

I agree completely, unfortunately this is how the majority of people look at things. Look at the vid I posted, it sums up what you stated exactly.

reply to post by ventian


I'm white but I grew up in a city where I'm technically a minority so I know plenty of slang and have listened to a bit of rap (though I prefer metal I do still listen to some rap from time to time, some of its is really good). I can understand that it might hold some back if they model their lives after it, but then again modeling our lives after AC/DC where its all about booze and women or after Jim Morrison - sex drugs and rock and roll isn't exactly a good idea (well I guess the sex isn't so bad an idea, neither is the rock and roll but I'm not fond of the drugs part).

My point is that any media, if you let it tell you how to live, will hold you back.

But to answer your title - hell yes I'd "sell out" my "race" for a few million, some scantily clad women and an entourage haha jk....well maybe

reply to post by ventian

ventian,

Maybe they just need a hug?

Peace

Originally posted by ventian

Originally posted by draevin
Black people are held back by a (imo bad) genre of music?

What kind of music are whites listening to then?

Whites, usually country or rock. The white hip hop community (usually dubbed whanksta) has enough money from their suburban parents to get them far enough in life. George Bush Jr. for example would have listened to Tupac if he grew up in my time.

Wow. To assume things is one thing, to state them factually is another.

Whanksta? Are you for real?

Maybe in the parts of the US that I don't live in, but around here?

Most white people listen to some form of rap, at least the ones under 35.

Most people - of any color listen to many different genres.

None of which that I know have developed any sort of dialect directly from the music they listen to, but from the community around them.

Originally posted by draevin

Originally posted by ventian

Originally posted by draevin
Black people are held back by a (imo bad) genre of music?

What kind of music are whites listening to then?

Whites, usually country or rock. The white hip hop community (usually dubbed whanksta) has enough money from their suburban parents to get them far enough in life. George Bush Jr. for example would have listened to Tupac if he grew up in my time.

Wow. To assume things is one thing, to state them factually is another.

Whanksta? Are you for real?

Maybe in the parts of the US that I don't live in, but around here?

Most white people listen to some form of rap, at least the ones under 35.

Most people - of any color listen to many different genres.

None of which that I know have developed any sort of dialect directly from the music they listen to, but from the community around them.

I actually spoke to quickly in that last post so I apologize. The whites around here will always either listen to rock or country with a little rap mixed in. The thing is, before I moved to my current location, I lived in a town with an african american majority. They all listened to rap almost exclusively (some would listen to R & B as well). Hope that clarifies things.

This goes beyond skin color or musical preference!! In every layer of society you'll find people imitating each other's behavior to indicate their alliance with that person or group.

It's the fear of not belonging that makes us act in such a stupid and immature fashion.

Individual thought gets a back row seat when you are scared to fall outside the "group".....

Peace

[edit on 18-6-2010 by operation mindcrime]

I'm not sure what the title has to do with the topic. I don't see a conspiracy in rap music 'keeping blacks down'. I can imagine black people might find that a little offensive, too. Also, I'm not even American, but when I see African-Americans on tv, I never have trouble understanding them - I wonder if your co-worker was trying hard not to shove a stapler down your throat. As well as that, I've heard a hell of a lot of white Americans talking the same way as you're describing.

If anything is 'keeping blacks down', I would say it is more to do simply with the areas in which they may live. Poor areas, areas where they have little choice but to join a gang, etc. If that is the case, then it has absolutely nothing to do with being black.

Would blame the language problem there in america on the education system. As most there who graduate school seem unable to properly speak, read, write and comprehend the english language regardless of what race they are. Met many people from america who were unable to comprehend and use even simple english.

reply to post by ventian


you know that is how our government wants us to be treated. I am surprised this site people don't seem to like Carlin. which makes me think this site is ran by the true owners of this country and don't like Carlin.

I still say one day they will ban any use of George Carlin because how much radical view he had. Just watch they will do it.





S&F for you!

I totally agree with you OP. most blacks think the "gangsta" lifestyle is the way to live. they see it and hear it so much they try to live it.

reply to post by dragnet53


Thanks for posting that, Carlin was the man, hope he is resting in peace.

Ah seem them talkin jiving bout all the killing
smiles on their pasty faces , with their jackboot laces
I shake my booty at all their tooti frooti whoopi
they can stink the hood, but I wont eat their poopi.
Iam a proud black african man
You better understand the wham bam
Iam a jamming bamming black african man

Rap is easy to manufacture i did the above in forty seconds.
Its like blues, its universal, but experience isnt?
If we are not black africans we THINK we know RAP.
The rich may be manipulating their own kind with this rap trap...who knows?

Originally posted by Dr Expired
Ah seem them talkin jiving bout all the killing
smiles on their pasty faces , with their jackboot laces
I shake my booty at all their tooti frooti whoopi
they can stink the hood, but I wont eat their poopi.
Iam a proud black african man
You better understand the wham bam
Iam a jamming bamming black african man

That's some of the most racist $*** I've seen on here in at LEAST 48 hours...lol

You GOTTA be Effin kidding me!?!... your post made me return to ATS... 1st off , Rap has nothing to do with how "Blacks" speak , most people speak slang when it's appropriate around their peers , and they'll censor their speech depending on the situation. The fact that you don't understand it simply means that you were never exposed to it for a long period if time

I'm from Jersey , When I was in the Corps , I made friends with Marines from all over the country and I had a roommate from Georgia , Texas and Louisiana and they were all Caucasian, To be honest when I first got to my Duty station , and they started talking to me , I had to do the exact same thing the OP described and ask them to repeat themselves because up above the mason dixon... we actually enunciate.

Besides the thick southern drawl ,It seemed every other word was Reckon' , Fixin' to , or Ya'll... when I first heard "ornery" I literally had no Idea what It meant. I also learned that one day it was "hotter than 2 rats $&@!ing in a wool sock" and My buddy met a chick on Libbo that was " Finer than a hair on a frogs ass split four ways" After hanging with the guys for a while I picked it up.

Did I look down on those guys because they didn't speak proper English? No... I understood that the environment and location that they grew up in influenced the way that they spoke. Did they speak like that all of the time?... No , If they were speaking with civilians or press or on Duty... the accent almost disappeared entirely.

Ironically , they said I spoke like a white guy (I'm 1/2 Black & 1/2 Puerto Rican BUT ALL AMERICAN) They also said that I was the one with an accent.

Wow....where to start with this thread. The first thing I guess the obvious thing to attack is that rap is holding Blacks back. Most rap, today anyway, is fairly mainstream...as others on the thread have said people of all races listen to rap music. Myself a 21 year old black male (OH NO RUN!!!) prefer to listen to all music but my favorite genre is Alt Rock.

As far as your coworkers....who knows. Im assuming you do not work in a very professional atmosphere because most people, not just Black people, know how to switch ways of talking between work and home...its called code switching. People do it everyday all over America...sociologists observed this a long long time ago. So thats more of a symptom of the place you work than the ridiculous generalization you are attempting about rap music. Also, most of the slang found in rap music is usually already around....thats how it ends up in the song. So basically the connection you are trying to make about a culture and a genre of music, neither of which you seem to understand, is ridiculous.

But as far as what is holding Black people back I would say its the same things that always were. An unwritten code of "whiteness" which if you dont subscribe to you are pretty much screwed. Liberalism is also another reason, people pretend to be colorblind and ignore differences which leads to misunderstandings when it comes to serious issues. I could go on and on.

If you seriously would like a general overview of what is holding Blacks back I would suggest a book by David Roediger called How race survived America. But anyway, good job getting some sort of dialogue going.