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Rise of the New Right aired last Night

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posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1

To the left, totalitarian government is good.



Really? Don't you think the rights increasingly intolerance of those who differ and demands for an oppressive government that makes laws based on conservative interpretations of the constitution and evangelistic religious beliefs a bit totalitarian?

I can remember in the 90s after the Republicans took over congress. Many of the new far right members of congress called for punishment of those that didn't vote the way the majority of the party voted. Which was rather shocking. Something you would expect out of a totalitarian regime. A purging of those that don't toe the party line. Something right out of the Stalin play book.


.




posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 12:37 PM
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While I don't agree with most of what government is doing and would rather support a "tea party" candidate than an establishment one, some of these protesters are idiots. The woman who started ranting about "Obama is a muslim, hes a liar"; or the people crying about the constitution now. First of all, it shouldn't matter what religion the president is as long as he keeps his beliefs seperate from policy. Second, the constitution has been going through the shredder since before I was born, and definitely when W was in office.
All the anger at the president is a joke. Look at who his advisors are, and others he kept high up in government. They are almost exactly the same as W's.
Most of these protesters are operating from a place of ignorance, and until that changes nothing good will happen.



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by Kaploink

Originally posted by mnemeth1

To the left, totalitarian government is good.



Really? Don't you think the rights increasingly intolerance of those who differ and demands for an oppressive government that makes laws based on conservative interpretations of the constitution and evangelistic religious beliefs a bit totalitarian?
.


No, because totalitarianism requires the force of government.

Since the new right is against government, it is impossible for them to be in favor of totalitarianism.

Government is pure violence.

In order to have government, one must accept violence.

Government can not exist without it.



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by time91
 


That's all true.

It's like after 9/11 all of these people started on the false flag bandwagon. Where were they for previous attacks on the American people by the government? Granted many of them were likely too young or not even born for the previous attacks and atrocities but quite a lot of the mass outrage was at Bush or because Bush was in office.

Every time there is mass awakening event like that there will always be a large number of people just going along because it suits their image or particular angst. Most wont ever make the connection and as soon as "their guy" wins an election they are right back to being jingoistic drones.

But a few do actually learn what the world is about and join the main fight, the good fight, for the right reasons.

So for every drunken idiot shouting that Obama is a Muslim or that Obama is destroying the Constitution there is at least one other person out there who's able to connect timelines and see beyond the nose on his face and is actually genuinely waking up.



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by time91
 


If you are basing your opinions on what you got from a pro-government hit piece towards parties that are openly for restraining government then it is you who is ignorant. Many of the same people who have problems with Obama, had problems with both Bush's and the Clinton administration in between, and even some had problems with the vaunted Regan administration has well. The rise of the Tea Party movement didn't just spontaneously appear, it was distilling for quite a while, and it is doubtful that a hundred years from now that movement will be presented as a group of people that did what FOX News told them to do, and even doubtful that FOX News will get much attention at all 100 years from now.

People can't have it both ways and declare the Tea Party Movement a "far right" movement and pro-fascism, while pretending to be aghast at their anti-strong government protests. It is a game of both the left and the right to declare anti-strong government movements as being "far right", and any person claiming to be down the middle, or "independent" then declaring those who are against a strong government as being "far right" are just government sycophants, and nothing more.



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by HistoryIsOnlyHisStory
 


Chris Mathews has come out demanding Obama act "more like a dictator"

I don't think its the right wing that's calling for violence here.



Just curious. When exactly did Chris ask the president to be violent?



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by HistoryIsOnlyHisStory
okay and if you have read your constitution, then you would know a well regulated militia is necessary to maintain freedom and deter tyranny.


I would really enjoy it if someone could point me to this well regulated militia represented by everyone stocking up on ammo because they are afraid Obama is going to be violent.

Am I the only one that sees "well regulated?"



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by HistoryIsOnlyHisStory
 


Chris Mathews has come out demanding Obama act "more like a dictator"

I don't think its the right wing that's calling for violence here.



Just curious. When exactly did Chris ask the president to be violent?



Let us make believe for a moment that we live in a society where it is IMPOSSIBLE for government to use violence against anyone, other than in defense of that persons property or life.

In such a society, nationalizing BP would be impossible.

If government had no guns, they could not confiscate property rightfully owned by BP.

Matthews is calling for outright violence against BP.

BP screwed up, and they should be held accountable, but not in the fashion Matthews suggests.

BP damaged the property of the fisherman and coastal property owners, thus it is just and right for government to take property from BP to pay those owners for damages - AFTER - a civil trial has been conducted to assess damages and awards have been made.

Government outright confiscating BP's property for its own ends is nothing more than unjustified violence.


[edit on 17-6-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


You're the only one interpreting it that way.

That interpretation was called out as bunk the first time it was used in 1837 when Georgia tried to ban handguns.


A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Because a well armed militia is necessary you cant infringe on the peoples right to arm themselves.

Spin it how you like. Just know you're particular spin has been defeated more times than phrenology.



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 01:04 PM
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"A government chosen by an honest election..."

Nope. Our elections are rigged. Candidates are pre-selected by the powers-that-be, from a list of people who have demonstrated a history of ideology or attitudes that are conducive to their goals. Both sides. Heads they win, tails we lose.

Not to mention that even so, they will still cheat to get their preferred man in, such as our last Bush president.

How is it not against the law for a father and son to both be president? Ever heard of nepotism? Kings made their sons the next "rulers."

Anyway, I'm not Obama bashing, because I absolutely hated bush after all the things I found out about him and his family, but I believe Obama is not a legitimate president. So much of his history is obscure, I don't know who he is, where he comes from, or where his loyalties lie. All I have is what I see him doing right now, which doesn't look good.

In the last 2 years, we have seen that our government now has control over:

- Banking
- Car companies
- The Military
- Healthcare

And now they're working on the oil companies.

Soon everything will be in the government's hands, including our b@lls.

At least, that's their plan, but I don't think they can have it.

There's a reason for this "rise of the new right" and it's a legitimate one.



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 

If the founding fathers were adamant on giving the people the right to throw off a tyrannical government, their OWN tyrannical government, do you think that they would believe that this same government should be the one "regulating" them?

Well regulated, organized, not a mob, and definitely not regulated out of existence.



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


No, I am not basing my opinions on this hit piece. But ignoring the fact that many people are too stupid to actually realize that the president does NOT have all the power is unreasonable. There are many intelligent people (many on ATS) that do see what is really going on and realize that governing forces don't actually change much with elections. But some people are just flat out ignorant and stupid. They are bumbing around, bumping into each other, doing and saying the wrong things, fighting the wrong people, not understanding the weapons being used against them.

I like the idea of the tea party but its being subverted by the establishment neo-cons. It is being turned slowly into a partisan thing.

I watched enough MSM in the past to see how they paint anything out of the mainstream thats anti-establishment, there all called wackjobs, but if they are proved right later they are ignored completely again. Perceptions linger long after the "facts" change.

[edit on 17-6-2010 by time91]



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 01:31 PM
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When I heard about this Chris Matthews special, I was tempted to tune in. But then I realized that it would just be a collection of the WORST POSSIBLE face of tea partiers and other right-wingers and decided against watching it. It's more propaganda, just like FOX News.

The polarization is part of the plan.
Buy into it or not.



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 01:36 PM
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I believe the only news story for today people of America want to see is this.

STOP THE LIES.

And then this news flash.


Because they Can't Stop The Lies. And take Chris Matthews and rest of the News Taking Heads With You.
We no longer need a Government made up of Lawyers and Agitators and Chicago Thugs and the worst, Professional Politicians.

[edit on 17-6-2010 by guohua]



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by time91
 


The POTUS, whether it be Obama, the Bush's, Clinton, or Regan, or the fictional President's of show's like The West Wing, Commander and Chief, and numerous others, the President is regularly referred to as the "leader of the free world", and the most powerful person on the planet. The use of Executive Orders to circumvent the legislative process, and the fact that the POTUS is the Commander in Chief of one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful military in the world make that position a great concern for any person concerned about personal freedom.

Beyond that, yes there is a problem with an out of control Congress and state legislatures, there is a problem with judges, federal, state, and most importantly local, and there is a problem with the way LEO's function in this nations current situation. All of this is a great problem, and The Tea Party Movement has not been ignorant to that, nor have they been silent on it. Beyond the Tea Party Movement, there are others who equally concerned. Not everyone who has bought a gun is a member of the Tea Party Movement, or any militia. Buying a gun, or several, should not be demonized in the way it is currently being done so, and worse, because there are many people deeply concerned about out of control government, demonizing The Tea Party Movement is not that answer.

This whole notion that the Tea Party Movement has been co-opted by Republicans is just propaganda, and the intent is to demonize a grass roots movement that has shown deep concerns, and even outrage towards an out of control government, federal, state, and local. The evidence that the Tea Party Movement is not attempting to "overthrow" the government lies in their willingness to "throw the bums" out of office by an electoral process.



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 02:35 PM
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I agree it does make sense to prepare to defend themselves and I'm a firm believer in the right to bare arms but why are they all of a sudden taking a stand against a government official when all he's done is pretty much everything the prior three before him have. They are all cut from the same political cloth batch and they are all crooked. Why didn't they go up in arms against Bush for getting us into a false pretence war or against Clinton for enforcing the government green lining that has a lot to do with our current economic break down.



You didn't hear any complaining about BUSH JR.? Were you living in this country?



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 

Hi Jean,
There is a saying (something like this, too lazy to google...), "people get the government they deserve".

So, it would appear that we are stuck with the collective ignorance and apathy that plagues the masses and the government THEY deserve.

Other than attempting to educate these people, noble as the exercise may be, has your study of history shown examples of a more likely scenario to correct this injustice (that is our government) upon the more deserving minority?

Is the T.E.A. Party the best hope?

I see education as the ONLY way, but I don't see that many willing recipients. Not the number needed.



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by Stewie
 


Hi Stewie,

Thank you for your questions. To your first question; is the Tea Party Movement our best hope, I would first answer that they are not a political party in the standard meaning of that term. Years ago I left the Republican party and became a member of the Libertarian Party but it wasn't so long after this, that I realized the pointlessness of belonging to any political party. While Libertarians do seem to believe their rhetoric, who could ever tell until the rose to power, and then once obtaining that power, just what would they do with to keep it?

In George Washington's Farewell Address, he gave dire warnings to the evils of political parties, and this was in the very beginning of our Constitutional Republic. The public ignored his warnings then, and continue to warn them to this day. Political parties are not the answer at all, nor are movements that seek to bring forth change by protest and voting. This is not to dismiss the contributions toward change that voting and protest can bring, but they just aren't enough. Plenty of people prior to the Revolution for American Independence protested the tyranny of that day, to no avail. Granted, they did not have the privilege of voting, but conversely, they weren't paying income taxes at all, let alone in perpetuity.

As to your question of examples in history to correct the injustice you speak of; I wasn't entirely sure what injustice you were speaking to, and assumed from your post that you were referring to a "collective ignorance". I do believe, with all my heart, and rational mind, that education is indeed the answer. However, each recipient of education must be a willing recipient or it is merely a waste of time. State owned and controlled education institutions are hardly the answer to education. Indoctrination; sure, but education, hardly. An uneducated person who has learned to read would do better finding access to a good library than they would do relying on a state owned and controlled education system.

Each person must take responsibility for their own education, and in my study of history, the Age of Reason, that most admirable subset of the Age of Enlightenment was filled with individuals who took it upon themselves to educate themselves. There is historical evidence to support the contention that prior to 1840 and the passing of compulsory education laws, Americans were the most literate populace on the planet. Backwoods people such as Davy Crockett, Daniel Boone, and of course Abraham Lincoln, were more literate and far more critical thinkers than many people today.

Many people today will smugly dismiss the Constitution for the United States of America as being written by "white land owners" who didn't "know" what we know now, but most of those doing this dismissing could not show any evidence of being any better read than those who wrote the Constitution, even though we live in the so-called "age of information" today, and have far more access to literature and texts than they ever did. Arrogance, in its simplest terms, is a presumption of knowledge. Too many people today, presume because they successfully navigated an education system that they are in the possession of knowledge, and that this makes them wise. Wisdom is more than memorization of data, and even if a vast majority of that data qualifies as facts, if one doesn't know what to do with those facts, then it is fair to say they lack wisdom.

I think far more than ignorance being the problem, the biggest problem is that of expedience. Expedience is what killed the American Dream, and it is expedience that becomes the excuse for why people cannot do what they know in their hearts needs to be done. As Jefferson pointed out in The Declaration of Independence, people have a proclivity to put up with a long train of abuses and usurpation's before finally committing to making change. That We the People today have suffered far more abuses than those who rebelled against the English Crown back in 1776 speaks more to expedience than it does ignorance. That said, ignorance certainly comes into play, but all too often, we remain ignorant out of expedience.



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 04:51 PM
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Every time I hear one of these MSNBC tongue waging spit bags say "where were these tea party people when Bush Jr did his evil deeds and defied the constitution" I want to throw something at the TV.

There were a lot of the same people that are now in the Tea Party that were protesting the wars without end, the patriot act, and a lot of the evils of the neo-cons. The difference was that FOX news and the rest of them would not point a camera at us if we were on fire.

Now FOX finds advantage in us as a stick against the left and those like MSNBC are forced to respond and this puts us in the news.

You can not really be for smaller government and also be for foreign wars without end. You can not be for civil liberties and also agree with wiretapping Americans without warrants. We were there protesting these abuses during the Bush era. The difference is that we were standing in the free speech zone cage boxes where no one could see us.



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 

Thank you for your response.
The injustice I was referring to, was that which is perpetrated onto the apparent minority (that hold traditional and constitutional values) by the federal government. Certainly a lazy, apathetic citizenry does an injustice to us all, including government, but, the federal government is supposed to adhere to the letter and spirit of the constitution.
I am encouraged by the recent engagement of large numbers of people, conservatives and independents, that recognize that something has gone horribly wrong. This November should be historic in its significance.
I suppose we have to have faith in our brothers and sisters to help us cleanse our government of self-serving scoundrels, but we must never fall into complacency again if we are indeed able to recover legitimate government.



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