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Russias Putin Calls Out Democrats on Iraq

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posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 08:00 PM
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Democrats even Putin has your number, in a remarkable bit of candor at the G-8 summit Putin reminds democrats of their hypocracy on the subject of the Iraqi war. He said democrats have "no moral right" to criticize President Bush over Iraq.

Reuters, an acceptable news source for liberals



The Kremlin leader, answering a reporter's question in Sea Island, Georgia, suggested that the Democrats were two-faced in criticizing Bush on Iraq since it had been the Clinton administration that authorized the 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia by U.S. and NATO (news - web sites) forces.


Putin has more on the ball than I previously credited him with!




posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 08:05 PM
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well a leader with common sense and a pair, where have his kind gone in the world?



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 08:12 PM
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Pooty-Put, as Bush calls him, brings up a good point. Why again was the US involved in Yugoslavia? Was there a UN resolution sending us there? Did they have (or ever have) WMD's? The word genocide got thrown around a bit, but, wasn't Saddam also guilty of that too?



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 08:18 PM
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I'd love to hear from international posters other examples of how Bush and the War on Iraq has become a focal point in your elections.

I know it's come down to survival for some, and in some cases the boot...As in Spain.

I was watching video from the G8 last night of the "Legion of Doom" walking on the beach and realized how linked these political careers have become.

[Edited on 11-6-2004 by RANT]



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 08:23 PM
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Putin has more on the ball than I previously credited him with!

lol
. He still isnt that good of a leader....



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 08:27 PM
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Hey RANT if you want opin on other countries political conditions start your own thread, this one is about the democrats hypocracy about Iraq and a world leader commenting on that fact.



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 08:28 PM
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thats awsome! not to mention halarious. a former commie nation is ragging on our commies! talk about irony! give it to em vlad!



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 08:34 PM
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Why does Putin want Bush to win so badly? What is he afraid of?

EDIT: It's strange how in one thread, the Commies "praise" Kerry, and that bad. But when the ex-head of the KGB praises Bush, that's good.

[edit on 11-6-2004 by curme]



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by Phoenix
Hey RANT if you want opin on other countries political conditions start your own thread, this one is about the democrats hypocracy about Iraq and a world leader commenting on that fact.


So you want the discussion closed to anything but one liners and high fives beating a one trick pony into the ground?

What more is there to say on the subject given your narrow requirments?

No one can suggest Putin's survival is linked to Bush? No one from other countries can comment on similar accusations being made by their leaders?

Hear that everyone? This thread is about Putin's fart in the wind.

Get your emoticons ready.


Serious political debate ahead.

Carry on.



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by curme
Why does Putin want Bush to win so badly? What is he afraid of?

EDIT: It's strange how in one thread, the Commies "praise" Kerry, and that bad. But when the ex-head of the KGB praises Bush, that's good.

[edit on 11-6-2004 by curme]


He did not praise Bush, he just pointed to the fact that demorats are always "two-faced" since they did worse with Clinton in office than Bush.

Remember that the Russians were against going to war in Iraq, so I hardly see it as a praise to Bush, but a bash on the demorats too.



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 08:53 PM
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Phoenix! Oh poor Phoenix, dear.

Grasping for straws??????????

How desperate it must be for you.........

Now having to resort quoting one grew up in the USSR, the produce of, how did you all use to refer to it, say circa 1961……………….Monolithic Godless Communism ; or “collectivist godless communism “(The new, modernized wrinkle of this old canard “Apple Computers promote Godless Darwinism and Communism.(1)………. Now if old Putin had lived in the good ole USA he would have had the benefits of comic book to educate himself from the evils of “GODLESS COMMUNISM” (2) as we did.

Now you use this man to make a moral judgment on a fellow Americans.

Have you signed your Loyalty Pledge?


(1) objective.jesussave.us...
(2)(www.authentichistory.com...)

Also see:
www.boblonsberry.com...
www.jbs.org...
watch.pair.com...




posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by curme
Why does Putin want Bush to win so badly?

dont recall putin being on any side or saying bush was right, infact he implied that both wars were wrong and said the liberals were contradicting themselves, i mean republicans supported both wars and havent contradicted themselves on the wars, its stating the obvious not siding with anyone.



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by gmcnulty

Monolithic Godless Communism ; or “collectivist godless communism “(The new, modernized wrinkle of this old canard “Apple Computers promote Godless Darwinism and Communism.(1)………. Now if old Putin had lived in the good ole USA he would have had the benefits of comic book to educate himself from the evils of “GODLESS COMMUNISM” (2) as we did.


You must be either communist/socialist or a democrat which is the same as neo-commie, maybe even an anarchist..... I could be wrong.....

BTW....in a communist country you would have had the benefit of the State saying what you had to learn and what's right and what's wrong for you so they would spoon feed you their view of truth.....
How do I know this? I was born and lived in a communist country until I was 7-8 years old (Cuba), lived and was raised until I was 17 in a socialist/democratic country,(Spain) and finally came to live, joined the military, went to school got a degree, work and still love to live in the good ole USA. There are some things I miss from Spain, but the government and education(after what in the US is called high school) are not some of those things I miss.


If I had not left Spain i would probably be waiting tables or working in a bakery instead of having a degree.


[edit on 11-6-2004 by Muaddib]



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by RANT


So you want the discussion closed to anything but one liners and high fives beating a one trick pony into the ground?


No, I just don't want it to turn into an off subject pity party for leftys wanting to deflect and obfuscate the nature of Putins comments regarding hypocracy by democrats.



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by Phoenix
Originally posted by RANT


So you want the discussion closed to anything but one liners and high fives beating a one trick pony into the ground?


No, I just don't want it to turn into an off subject pity party for leftys wanting to deflect and obfuscate the nature of Putins comments regarding hypocracy by democrats.


Fair enough. I just took issue with what appeared to be a revoked invitation for opposing interpretations. Should anyone still care to disagree with your presentation, I'm sure you can handle yourself without resorting to asking them to leave.



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 09:57 PM
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Russia was basically snubbed at by Clinton, in regards to Yugoslavia (reference to the close connection between Serbs and Russian's and how Clinton basically hand-tied the Russian's to the point where they (Russia) had to sit by while the Serbs got bent over, in the eyes of the Russian's, of course). Resentment, and Putin being ex-KGB, doesn't forget sh_t. Hence his blasting comments of the hypocracy of the Democrat's and their trademark maneuver: the flip-flop.

Oh wait, lets not forget Clinton's favorite General, ex-2004 presidential candidate, Wes Clark, who almost started not ONE, but TWO WWIII type scenerio's with the Russian's, while we were in Yugoslavia. Seems Putin hasn't forgotten this either. Damn those ex-KGB types.


I guess Mr. Poe was right after all, eh Bob88?

The Big Lie About Kosovo



seekerof



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 10:23 PM
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Actually, many years ago I was in the youth front-group of the John Birch Society...........I was a True Believer..........

You may not be familiar with the John Birch Society of the early '60's in the USA. So let me share from first hand personal experience:

According to JBS theory, liberals provided the cover for the gradual process of collectivism; therefore many liberals and their allies must actually be secret communist traitors whose ultimate goal is to replace the nations of western civilization with one-world socialist government. "There are many stages of` welfare-ism, socialism, and collectivism in general," wrote Welch, "but communism is the ultimate state of them all, and they all lead inevitably in that direction.

They believed there are many stages of` welfare-ism, socialism, and collectivism in general, but communism is the ultimate state of them all, and they all lead inevitably in that direction.

A core tenet of the JBS was:

US is a republic not a democracy;

And it was Collectivism has eroded that distinction. This so-called distinction was largely a semantic trick--used to cover the essential autocratic elitism of Welch and the JBS philosophy.


Estimates of JBS membership by ‘61 or so ranged from 60,000 - 100,000. The actual membership figures are unknown and often disputed. Some estimate actual active membership was more like 25,000 to 30,000, but this seemed low to me.

No matter what –

JBS pioneered grassroots lobbying, combining educational meetings, petition drives, and letter writing campaigns. One early campaign against the second Summit Conference between the US and USSR - It generated over 600,000 postcards and letters. A ‘64 Birch campaign to oppose Xerox’s sponsorship of TV programs favorable to the UN produced about 70k letters from 15,000 folks.

JBS’ers were at the forefront of developing many of the methods and strategies still in use today. They placed strong emphasis on debate, always wearing a white shirt with a conservative color tie (no designs; solids preferred). They developed training programs and training materials; and maintained they would take over the government in the USA. They had a long-term view and expected to reach their goal of controlling the government in 30-40 years.

The Youth front group they organized was called Young Americans for Freedom (YAF). They chose that name because it was a liberal sounding and benign – like who’s against freedom. YAF was organized on college campuses thought out the USA. Part of the thinking here was to rescue impressionable and intelligent youth from the grasp of liberal education.

(I always wondered if they appreciated that “liberal education” was a concept of human development; and not the study of a political/economic system. I do so till this day.)

The organization structure was patterned after the communism cell system and the CIA’s compartmentalization methods. Only a select few were invited into the inner circle in which there were many more levels of “inner circle.”

Once selected you were trained in YAF methods; and moved up based upon your perceived level of zealotry.

Being a good American from a prominent conservative Republican family I was attracted to the YAF group on campus and joined. Soon I was “interviewed’ by the ‘big man’ from Boston as the club president called him. I found the whole thing quite puzzling at the time but I must of done well because I was selected to go to the 2 week training camp.

At first I loved it. Learned all this cool stuff about ‘godless communism’ and how to fight it; we practice debate tactics and strategies when engaging those “commie liberals.” What fun! But it was the last 2 days that troubled me: They argued that communism was such an evil entity we must use any method to defeat it: The end justified the means. And some day that might mean (only on the extremist of conditions) all the way up to possibly murder. (It was one of those "what ifs" question and answer example of a principle things but sure sat me upright in my seat)

These folk frighten the hell out of me. I finish the training in silence, went home, and never had another thing to do with them.

So that was my education………….here in the good old USA.

We come from different places and traditions, and here, in the USA we have the special freedom to hold differing views. I am happy you are in the USA and have a degree. GOOD FOR YOU. It’s folks as you who make us strong through the sharing of you special talents, abilities, and energy. I say THANK YOU…………………………even if your not wrong about your politics…………..;-)



[edit on 12-6-2004 by gmcnulty]

NB –

Note to Reader: I re-read this post and was unhappy with how it sounded and the unintended message some may have taken from reading it.

I am not saying that YAF trainers were endorsing ‘murder’ as a viable political strategy. Point in fact – The question when posed was never directly answered.

The incident occurred as a result of “using any means” in the effort to defeat communism. The logic/ethical issues concerning their “The end justifies the means.” Strategy was challenged by speculating about hypothetical situations - or as I refer to it as, the typical “What-If” session. Having posed the extreme situation, trainer never answer the question posed but reminded us we were at war with “godless communism” and the ultimate winner of the war would determine if our way of life would continue or something else would replace the liberty and freedom we currently enjoyed.



[edit on 12-6-2004 by gmcnulty]



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by gmcnulty
Actually, many years ago I was in the youth front-group of the John Birch Society...........I was a True Believer..........


That's a scary story. Are these guys still in operation?



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 11:07 PM
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No. Not in that flavor

As with most new and successful groups they grew geometrically but destroyed themselves from within; with continued power and ideological differences. As I recall they split into two competing factions and faded into the back ground. Also the power behind them, JBS came under attack as a radical and un-American like organization.

They have continued on having gone thru several re-inventions but I doubt that they have the power, zeal and brand of committment that I saw in them in the early '60's

An interesting side note is: They purchased their national headquarters, located in a rustic setting in California - like prime real estate – from one Ronald W. Reagan, upon the completion of his second term.

YAF promotionals say:
After he left office and was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease in 1994, a painful but practical family decision followed: The ranch went up for sale the next year. Both the Clinton administration and the California Legislature passed on the property. The 34-year-old, Virginia-based nonprofit YAF, however, bought the site for just under $5 million in 1998.

Reagan and YAF go back- involved with each other - for many years .

www.google.com...



The group has since embarked on an ambitious mission to raise $21 million to restore, maintain and protect the property; build a visitors center, and create a national educational program.

www.reaganranch.org...

You might be interested in knowing some of my training classmate went on to serve in the Nixon and Reagan White House; and I'm sure 2-3 made it into the criminal judicial systems from both administrations.

Yeah! These folks were steely eyed, stone cold serious M-F’ers and made no bones about it. Check out Eric Hoffer’s little masterpiece, TRUE BELIEVER, a short easy eye opener of a read. During the 2000 Florida election foul up there was a very famous and memorable picture of enraged Florida “citizens” who stormed the Supervisor of Elections office some where in Miami and actually stopped the re-count. Those pictures were all young men with closely cropped hair and whit #s and conservatively colored ties. When I first saw it I froze and was brought back to the training day I described before.

That was ME 30 some odd years ago.

As it turned out, they were all young republican congressional aides flown in by Tom DeLay to make lots of noise and stir up trouble.

No, YAF is no longer here, so to speak, but their methods and tactics live on……………I see them used here on this BBS………….and few know from whence it all came.



[edit on 12-6-2004 by gmcnulty]



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 12:00 PM
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See how fast they can change the subject when a post is not a genuine Bush basher or antiwar or antiUS or anti something.


Blink your eyes and we go from talking about democratic hypocracy on the Iraq war to talking about the evils of ultra-conservatism by the John Birch society - its almost like a good card trick, happens so fast that you must be looking directly at it to see, glance away and its like majic..

[edit on 12-6-2004 by Phoenix]



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