Animals should have rights too.

Originally posted by abecedarian
Is a wild animal going to give YOU the right to a humane death?

So, it's mutual respect at work here, no?

Its called instinct

We have the capability to think and to rationalise. An animal has a different brain structure, and instinct is more prevalent than thinking about consequence or rationalisation

So no, just because wild animals are aggresive doesnt mean we have more rights than them. Its not there fault, at least we have a chocie, some of us are just so low we choose the lesser moral path.

Eating a dog is no worse than eating a cow. Don't play favorites because they are cute. Cows are pretty cute too you know.

[edit on 15-6-2010 by Phlynx]

Even though it is very hard to look at these pictures it is good to be reminded of the cruelty inflicted upon animals everyday. There are many organizations that try to stop the animal trade in meat and fur that are not PETA crazy. ORG like IFAW and WSPA show humans better side.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Its called instinct

We have the capability to think and to rationalise. An animal has a different brain structure, and instinct is more prevalent than thinking about consequence or rationalisation

So no, just because wild animals are aggresive doesnt mean we have more rights than them. Its not there fault, at least we have a chocie, some of us are just so low we choose the lesser moral path.

So simply because we have the ability to "think" that we should be more kind to them? You know for a fact that they can't "think" and "rationalize"? I might argue that since many animals will stop attacking when it becomes apparent they won't make the kill.

And I though that evolution says we are only more intelligent animals?

Originally posted by abecedarian
So simply because we have the ability to "think" that we should be more kind to them? You know for a fact that they can't "think" and "rationalize"? I might argue that since many animals will stop attacking when it becomes apparent they won't make the kill.

And I though that evolution says we are only more intelligent animals?

I think we should be kind to animals period. You sound like the kind of person that actually does harm animals

You seem to think its ok to torture and abuse them, simply because they would do different to us. And yes, its a known fact that they have cant rationalise. They rely almost entirely on instincts. Do yourself a favour and read a book, or research the brain mechanics of animals.

All your statements are based on assumptions

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
I think we should be kind to animals period. You sound like the kind of person that actually does harm animals

You seem to think its ok to torture and abuse them, simply because they would do different to us. And yes, its a known fact that they have cant rationalise. They rely almost entirely on instincts. Do yourself a favour and read a book, or research the brain mechanics of animals.

All your statements are based on assumptions

And yours' are similarly based on assumption, no? Somehow, we are to treat them better than they would treat us? My instincts are to kill and eat. If someone else kills and then I eat....

In my opinion, I am an animal, little different than any other being on the planet. I eat to survive. Whether I kill the animal, or plant even, is superfluous.

I see little difference between a leopard severing the jugular of any particular animal, allowing those to bleed out... and.
We, rather you, think yourself better than any other creature trying to survive?

And, for what its worth, I've never killed an animal myself, whether by BB gun or other means. I do go out of my way to take even "black widow" spiders out of the house rather than kill them.
I am an opportunistic carnivore.


[edit on 6/15/2010 by abecedarian]

I will concede that we should not go out of our way to kill an animal: we should revere, respect life as we find it. But we should not preclude the need to survive from doing what's necessary for the survival of our species.

What some see as torturing animals is little more than humankind taking its place in the circle of life.

reply to post by abecedarian


Ok, hold up a minute

Im all for eating animals, what Im talking about is unnecessary torture and and cruelty. I thought you meant that, that was ok....I am also a carnivour (I dont eat dogs or anything else like that though)

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
reply to post by abecedarian

 

Ok, hold up a minute

Im all for eating animals, what Im talking about is unnecessary torture and and cruelty. I thought you meant that, that was ok....I am also a carnivour (I dont eat dogs or anything else like that though)

So now we're basing "unnecessary" on humanistic interpretations rather than comparing that and evaluating the same to what nature does to its own? As if Nature is humane in some way or form, no? We are now above Nature?

Belief in Darwinian Evolution suggests otherwise, no?

[edit on 6/15/2010 by abecedarian]

Joey was six months old when I brought him home. He was an English Springer Spaniel, the last of a litter, and a pup no one wanted. His legs were too long and gangly for the field dog breed, a mind of his own, and a dog other hunters said would never amount to much. For me it was love at first sight! I wanted to surprise my wife with a puppy, but when I brought him home the first words out of her mouth were something like "What the heck is that?" Not exactly love at first sight, but after about ten minutes that was it! Not only did Joey become an excellent bird hunter and retriever, he was also a very much loved and important part of the family, much preferring the bed over his kennel. Sure I trained him to do the job he was bred for, but all the while Joey was teaching me about more important things in life, than retrieving wildfowl. Love and loyalty were only two of many lessons he taught me about dogs, but the most important lesson of all was that dogs have souls. Anyone who has brought into the home to become a nother member of the family, I'm sure will agree with me. Once I learned this, it only made sense to me that all animals must have souls, and even though they don't think as humans do, why not? I find it somewhat ironic that my hunting dog put an end to my hunting. We still went for walks through fields and bush, and Joey still had the enjoyment he always found in flushing a grouse or pheasant. At first he would look at me as if to say "Go on stupid...shoot it!", but what I supposed to do, throw my camera at it? If I knew how, I could write a book filled with stories about the many wonderful years Old Joey was with my wife and I, and it would be a fairly thick book at that. Well the years rolled by, and after breaking my back at work, the long walks came to an end. Joey took to spending much of his time asleep on one of the couches, dreaming I'm sure of pheasants and partridge, and those Autumn days spent in a blind on the edge of a grainfield, as we waited for the migrating geese and ducks to leave the marshes as the sun arose. One habit I could never break him of was whenever I was laying out my spread of goose decoys in the grain field, he would have to anoint all two dozen of them, and always saving a final squirt to bless the blind with before joining me behind it. It was just over two years ago when I had to make the phone call to the vet that all dog lovers dred. For months now I had been carrying him outside, then back in when he was done. The vet had assured us that Old Joey wasn't in any pain, he was just old. The vet arrived at the house with her assistant, and followed my wife and I downstairs to the couch where Joey was sleeping. He woke up with his usual tail-wagging, eyes trying to focus through the cateracts that had recently been developing. I'm not ashamed to say I couldn't help sobbing, nor could my wife, as we hugged Old Joey and the vet gave him the needle. I remarked to my wife that this must be what it feels like to lose a child, something we were to learn too soon. Joey was 18 years and 6 weeks old. About his passing leaving us feeling like we had just lost a child? Prophetic words I wish I'd never spoken...nine days later our 22 year old son was killed. Because of my conviction that animals have souls, I know Old Joey and Alan are together, and no doubt going on long walks through fields and bush.
I don't care if people choose to eat meat, and in fact it's none of my business, but I do care about how the animal is dispatched.

We used to all live in some form of harmony didn't we. Animals, humans, the earth.

Remove all those that take more than they need and perhaps we could again.

But I doubt it...

MM

Originally posted by wylekat
At the moment, we need to work on HUMAN rights, first- and get those fixed correctly- for once those are taken care of, sights like this would go by the wayside anyways. Poverty, food issues, cruelty would all disappear for the most part.

My thoughts exactly. Deal with the people first, THEN deal with the animals.

reply to post by Bkrmn


You brought the pup into your home for companionship, not nutrition.
I cannot fault your intent. Had you purchased it for food, from the grocer... I may question your need but wouldn't question much further.

[edit on 6/15/2010 by abecedarian]

Originally posted by MissMegs
...
Remove all those that take more than they need and perhaps we could again.

But I doubt it...

MM

Population control?

First off we can't say minority rights are what we need to focus on, or gay rights are what we need to focus on. Or whatever other minority group you pick.
Obviously alot of the 6.X billion mouths on this globe like to eat meat. Nothing wrong with that it's natural. What's not natural nor right is a disgusting overfilled corporate feed lot full of sentient animals made to suffer for fat bastard at McDix for 1.99, or someone tying up an animal to a vehicle and dragging it to death, or skinning live animals for cheap fur.
And how some of you equate an animal's natural instinct to kill for sustenance with how cruel humans can be is laughable in a sad way.
Bottom line is if it's a sentient animal with bloody nerve clusters as sophisticated as ours.... don't make me backhand you with my ring hand, j/k. Kill humanely for chrissakes.

I'm not a tree hugger or a protester or whatever but I'm am disgusted at the indifference to animals these days.

Originally posted by dl2one
...
Obviously alot of the 6.X billion mouths on this globe like to eat meat. Nothing wrong with that it's natural. What's not natural nor right is a disgusting overfilled corporate feed lot full of sentient animals made to suffer for fat bastard at McDix for 1.99, or someone tying up an animal to a vehicle and dragging it to death, or skinning live animals for cheap fur.
And how some of you equate an animal's natural instinct to kill for sustenance with how cruel humans can be is laughable in a sad way.
Bottom line is if it's a sentient animal with bloody nerve clusters as sophisticated as ours.... don't make me backhand you with my ring hand, j/k. Kill humanely for chrissakes.

You just described most of the meat-eating people on the planet:
"overfilled corporate feed lot full of sentient animals made to suffer for fat bastard at McDix for 1.99"

Respect the animals you eat; use what you have.
Don't waste. Anthropomorphising them only lowers you to their levels.

reply to post by wylekat


I have often found that people that violate animals also do so to fellow humans.

You either play nice or don't play nice.

Of course they should. What makes humans any different? The good news is, I've noticed a vast shift in people's opinions on animal rights in the past 10 years.

I am vegetarian since 20 years. I have only one question. What is the difference between kill/eat a dog or a pig?

a clear case of double standards?

reply to post by abecedarian

Is a wild animal going to give YOU the right to a humane death?
So, it's mutual respect at work here, no?

So, going by your comment, two wrongs make a right eh??

The point is that us Humans have intelligence and the ability to empathise. It is what makes us human... to deny empathy is to deny our humanity.


reply to post by ofhumandescent



I deeply respect you thoughts on this... however i would like to make the following point...

People who eat meat can still love and respect Animals. For me the issue is not that an Animal ends up on my plate... it’s how it is treated before it gets there.

I like to use the Native American Indian as an example... They hunted the buffalo... but they also loved, cherished and respected it. They never hunted more than they needed and used as much of the animal as they could (ensuring little waist)

I believe that we should all respect and cherish life... we should also give thanks when we sacrifice a life in order to preserve or improve our own. Out of respect to the creature we sacrifice, we should ensure that its death is as quick and painless as possible... and that its death was for a purpose.

Death is a part of life...

However, people who allow animals to needlessly suffer due to their own laziness, ignorance or arrogance have serious issues in my opinion.

Peace.




[edit on 16-6-2010 by Muckster]