Really what point were you trying to make ? I couldn't see it as it got lost in there someplace amongst the smartassed, clownish answer. I like your
humor and can usually see your point and reasonable side within it, but dude sometimes you get just a little carried away and it seems more like
someone acting a fool instead of using light humor. And IMO stereotyping anyone is not cool. I wasn't using humor when I asked you the question, I
was serious. My mistake for thinking that you would respond seriously and without stereotyping, I guess cops aren't the only people that you have a
problem with. I have respect for you even though I may not always agree with what you say, because your posts are usually well thought out and you
make some very valid points. Unfortunately your response to me this time wasn't one of them.
You're right it should have never have gotten to the point that it did, but being that I wasn't there all I have to go on is the information at
hand, which points to the actions of the females involved as being the reason that it escalated beyond what it had to.
I have no idea if he was going to ticket her, or just give her a warning, but it seem that her initial response to him was the problem and prevented
him form letting it go at just a ticket......
The officer was talking to the man when he saw four young women jaywalk across the same street at the same spot. The officer asked the women to
step over to his patrol car, but the women were being "verbally antagonistic toward the officer," according to officials.
One of the women, later identified as a 19 year old, began to walk away from the scene despite the officer's instructions, prompting the
officer to walk over to her and escort her back to his patrol car.
Now he couldn't very well issue her a citation if she refused to stay and receive it. Since she refused to stay and allow him to issue the ticket,
she is the one who escalated a simple ticket issuance to the level of an arrest.
The girl then "began to tense up her arm, and pull away from the officer while yelling at him," investigators said. The officer told the girl to
place her hands on his patrol car, but she refused. When the officer tried to grab hold of her, "she pulled away and twisted, breaking free of the
officer's grip several times," the blotter report said.
When the officer tried to handcuff the girl, another girl, this one 17 years old, intervened and placed her hands on the officer's arm, "causing the
officer to believe she was attempting to physically affect the first subject's escape," police said.
The officer pushed back the second girl, but the girl came back at him. The officer then punched her, police said.
She is the one that escalated it to the point of physical contact. And the actions of both of the females caused it to escalate to the point of the
officer hitting one of them.
My stance is usually that of condemning the abuse of power and authority by LEO's , but even I see that wasn't the case here.
Whitcomb said the officer involved in the incident sent out a call for help, prompting other officers to rush to his aid.
I think you answered your own question. He was trying to subdue her without further enraging the crowd. If the crowd wasnt there he would of knocked
her legs out from under her, probably driving her face into the ground at the same time. She would of been cuffed and done. With all of those people
there he was just trying to wear her down and then get the cuffs on. He had one eye on her and one on the crowd.
FWIW......this is what tazers were made for. Zzzzzzzzzp.
FWIW(x2)........While I think the punch was a tiny bit much. He was WELL within his rights to get the second woman away from the situation.
Wrestling matches like that is how guns get free and cops get shot. He needed to keep out of a situation like that.
This is clearly the two women escalating what would have been just a citation. Whether you think it's a dumb law or not, Seattle has had it's share
of bicyclists and pedestrians purposefully blocking traffic for whatever their cause is and stopping MY right to get home safely to my wife and
children. Like it or not - jaywalking is an issue here that needs to be addressed. I can't count the number of times I have almost mowed someone down
because they just jump right out in the street and EXPECT that you need to stop when they are not at a crosswalk. Most crosswalks around here state
that an automobile MUST STOP when a pedestrian is there.
Second - I work a couple of miles away from the area that this occurred at. There is a huge gang problem in that area. The cop was surrounded by
potential gang bangers and used excessive restraint in my opinion. As evidence to this claim, go back to the video and pause it at about 1:49 and see
the dude on the left with a hat on - he is clearly holding a gun. Lucky for the cop that the dude did not shoot.
No doubt that whole situation could have been avoided. That woman started freaking out because he caught her. If you just keep your mouth shut and
accept you got caught, that sort of stuff never needs to happen. Instead she makes a big deal out of it, throws a huge tantrum and now she's paying
for it. And as for the idiotic friend that started getting physical with the cop...he was extremely restrained to just punch her once. Give that cop
a pat on the back and a beer.
I think we all can come away with an education here:
When an officer calls you over to his/her vehical, or to where he/she is standing, do it. You can ask what is up, or why, but dont run away or act
like an ass.
Act like a civilized human with manners, courtesy, and non-agression. Remember, they have handcuffs, tazers, batons, AND a gun. Dont act like a
douchbag a-hole with a chip on your shoulder, and mouth-off at the police officer.
When the officer asks you something, or speaks to you about something going on in the neighborhood, respond without the attitude. Giving an officer
attitude will not make the situation better, only worse. If the officer just wanted to ask you a question or to check you out in response to a call,
it will go much more smoothly and you may be let go with a either a warning (if you did something "wrong" but not serious) or even a friendly,
"Have a nice day. Sorry bout that, and stay safe". I have even gotten a laugh out of the officers when stopped for "looking a little suspicious"
(yes there was a group of us 4 walking down an alley) and explained why we were walking down the alley like that, looking "strange". (We were bored
with walking down the same streets and sidewalks, so we wanted a change of scenery). And they let us go with no problems. Its better to walk away
with a laugh and handshake, then a baton or fist upside the head and a slam on the hood of the squad car.
If the officer is going to arrest you, or detain you, DO NOT FIGHT or RESIST the officer. Doing so WILL be just asking for an ass-kicking. Escalation
is not a good way to get out of a jam with police. Sometimes they may detain you for their safety, or even your own safety, until they determine you
are not a threat, or its a case of mistaken identity. Mistakes happen. If you are wearing a black shirt, baseball cap, and blue jeans and are about
5'10" medium build, and a call comes out that someone with a similar description as yours commited a crime, and the police stop you because you fit
the description, oh well. Just comply, and usually it will get sorted out and you will be free to go. Yeah it can be a bit of a pain in the ass, but
its better to diffuse it than escalate.
Do not, I repeat, DO NOT TOUCH THE OFFICER. Do not push the officer. Do not grab the officer. Do not PUNCH the officer. Do not spit on
the officer. Do not kick the officer. Do not bite the officer. Do not grab for the baton, taser, gun. Do not jump on the officer. Do not throw things
at the officer. Doing any of the above mentioned acts will end very BADLY for you.
Do NOT interfere with an officer's work. If the officer is detaining someone, or arresting someone, do NOT try to "help" the arrestee. Do not
attack the officer making the arrest. Do not push the officer. Do not grab the arested person away from the officer. Do not antagonize the officer.
Doing so will result in you too having the cuffs slapped on you and hauled in with your new cell-mate. Also included is an ass-kicking as well,
especially if you assaulted the officer. Remember, even poking an officer in the chest, or face is grounds for an assault charge. And it may include a
swift punch or headbutt in self-defense on part of the "assaulted" officer. Either way, you lose. If your friend was being an a-hole and is getting
arrested, do not try and be a hero and antagonize the cops, attack them, or try to "break-out" your friend.
Most important of all: Do not antagonize the officer. They have a tough job as it is, and they dont need mouthy little brat/a-holes, making their job
tougher. They are people too and have human faults as well. Some are a-holes, some are real nice. But everyone does have a bad day or two and its best
NOT to make it worse. Dont trash talk the cop, dont try to be a "tough guy/girl" and be loud and obnoxious. Chances are you may have not done
anything wrong and they just wanted to talk or ask a question, and you could have been on your merry way with no incident. If you dont like cops, well
at least act in a civilized manner, be professional, behave, and be at least courteous. It will end on a good note and you will not have a problem. Do
not act like an ass.
I know some repeat, or kind of mesh together, but these 7 "rules" should be recalled if you should get stopped by the police and dont want to get
your @$$ kicked and thrown in jail. Just follow the 7 rules and you will be ok! Oh and the most important rule:
See the problem with this whole situation is the girl should never have gotten involved. The cop was talking to the man who illegally crossed the
road. As usual other people had to butt into the situation and turn it into something way bigger than it was. The girl deserved what she got she tried
to stop the officer from arresting someone so he did what he had to do to control the situation, it doesn't matter if it's a women or a man if you
do something illegal there are going to be reproductions. Some of you said he was being unprofessional, what would you do in his shoes then if someone
tried to free someone you apprehended please do tell.
The fact of the matter is the guy shouldn't have J walked (it's illegal). The girls shouldn't have gotten involved (it wasn't there business). If
a cop is arresting you or is just talking to you because you did something wrong don't resist arrest and look like a moron just shut up and listen. I
mean really do you think the cop would have arrested the original offender if no one would have gotten involved and he would have just been respectful
and say he was sorry I think not.
I saw the way the girls were acting...and I have to say what was the reason for them thinking they could fight the police officer????
Okay the last 2 times I was pulled over the cops let me go(and that WAS FOR SPEEDING)
Acting polite and handling yourself like a LADY goes a long way. I used to attend a school with girls like that. Girls that constantly fight and
bicker and think they can do and say "whateva they want".
Can someone from the US tell me, is it normal LE policy for officers to go around on their own?
I'm fairly certain that in the UK, they travel in pairs, often a male and a female, this would seriously have made avoiding this situation far
All the best, kiwi
I live in Rural New York and just in the last couple hours found my stereo stolen from my car. A town sheriff answered the call alone. To the best of
my knowledge, every call I have ever made has been answered by one officer. I can only speak for me and I live out in nowhere.
Law enforcement might have a right to restrain someone, but punching a women in the face is excessive by any standard. He could have used pepper
spray or stun gun or whatever.... just seem there is more and more blatant police brutality occurring these days.
Imma tell a story about jaywalking. I was walkin with my freind and 2 black acquaintances of mine of have had run ins with the law where I have't
really. I jaywalked across with them and because I was with them these cops saw us jaywalking and came to jam them because the cop thought they were
holding and used jaywalking as an excuse to search us. Well my friend had pot on him that no one knew about and those back guys didn't and my homie
went to jail and the officer wrote us all 200 dollar jaywalking tickets just because. So basically, it's just an excuse for them to search you and
violate your space. Now, that I know the "Straw MAN" illusion and arguments I don't have much to worry about these days, but to those that don't
know about; don't fear the police, remain calm, and do all your "fighting" in court where if you know your laws well enough you can avoid being in
the courts juristriction and thus excused from any accusations.
edit to say that also if you know the laws well enough you can avoid being in the juristriction right when the officer tries to tell you something.
Its not hard; google the Strawman Illusion and then go to the video section in google and you'll be able to watch the whole thing there.
This cop has not done a thing wrong. She resisted arrest for breaking the law, if your going to break the law, then resist arrest for the crtime you
just commited then he has to use force to apprehend her. He didnt hit the girl he was trying to peacefully arrest, just the girl that came up right in
his face and started pushing him FIRST. If they dont want to get arrested, then dont commit the crime.
I live in the UK where our police are not allowed to do a thing without being called a beater, a rasist, over the top, violent... of course they are
going to be called these things, they are aprehending people that dont want to be aprehended.
I genuinlly hope that he doesnt lose his job, if I was his boss I would congratulate him on taking the required and correct action.
Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Pepper spray. It allows him to step back away from multiple attackers and engage them safely from that distance, likely disabling them both.
[edit on 15-6-2010 by bigfatfurrytexan]
I refuse to carry pepper-spray. No matter how you use it? It's going to get on you, regardless. Unless I'm also carrying de-contaminant-solution. I
would simply refuse to carry pepper-spray. Too messy.
I thought the cop was being fairly restrained given the fact that he was essentially being attacked by a bunch of lawless thugs.
Ask yourself a simple question. Suppose the perp. was, quiet polite, and respectful towards the officer instead of acting like a foul miscreant.
She would not have been arrested and maybe she would have gotten just a warning. The other lady, maybe the perp.s mom should be arrested for
assaulting a police officer. The fact that he punched her instead of tazing her or shooting her, showed some restraint as well.
I love how people think that pepper spray is less harmful than a half assed punch. Would you guys rather have a small bruise on the face or a painful
burn that will last until you're finally able to get the stuff off which could have been quite a while with how they were acting? I find it pretty
funny how many people think that the punch was the worst thing he could have done compared to tasers and pepper spray. I would gladly take a punch to
the face any day compared to them.
And for those who think that the jaywalking was a stupid reason to get them stopped, would you have rather had them get hit by a car on accident
because they were too lazy to walk an extra few feet to get to the overpass? Apparently it was a busy street that must have a lot of traffic or else
there would be no reason for the overpass. Bet the first person they would want to be there, if there were to have been an accident, would have been
that same exact officer.
Like it's been said many times before, it could have all been avoided if the first girl would have just cooperated to begin with. He probably just
would have given her a warning but she acted up and escalated it.
In the end, the guy videotaping it and the surrounding crowd is just trying to make up this BS "brutality" view of it when the girls were out of
line and the officer was just doing what needed to be done when people escalate the situation.
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