I am a Christian dating a Muslim, and not once has she tried to kill me for my beliefs.

Originally posted by gordonwest
reply to post by skajkingdom

 

Your saying that the most peaceful people for a religion is islam? Wow... Christians caused what happened to 9/11.

Bush is christian. He claims.

reply to post by skajkingdom


I don't know where you get your history books from... but Bush isn't President of the U.S, Obama is... and Obama is a Muslim.

Originally posted by Mykahel
Islam, and the Qur'an, teach hate. I've read it. You won't be able to convince me otherwise.

Oh, please, do enlighten us, oh Knowing One!

Quote to us from Qur'an where it teaches hate, oh you Supreme Being!

Originally posted by gordonwest
reply to post by skajkingdom

 

I don't know where you get your history books from... but Bush isn't President of the U.S, Obama is... and Obama is a Muslim.

I don't know where you've learned to read, but that school must suck.

I wrote my reply in regard to the saying "who caused 9/11".

Originally posted by skajkingdom

Originally posted by Mykahel
Islam, and the Qur'an, teach hate. I've read it. You won't be able to convince me otherwise.

Oh, please, do enlighten us, oh Knowing One!

Quote to us from Qur'an where it teaches hate, oh you Supreme Being!

Finally a Islam person praying to a none-muslim higher being.

reply to post by skajkingdom


Ok bubba.

You say all of that has nothing to do with islam.


fine.

Islamic culture then is (I would assume) based on islam.

I dont see German women running around with body bags for "modesty"...unless they are non-germanic infiltrators.

New York and Paris arent wearing body bags.

Just lslamic countries.

40% christian? Thats fine. I could say something similiar about pagans but it doesnt remove the fact that a buttload were burned.

History is history.

Originally posted by felonius
I dont see German women running around with body bags for "modesty"...unless they are non-germanic infiltrators.

New York and Paris arent wearing body bags.

Just lslamic countries.

So, for your information: Even BEFORE, loooooooooooooooooooooooong before Islam came to the (Middle)Eastern countries (e.g. Afghanistan, and all the "-stans" there) it was in THEIR culture for women to be veiled. Heck, in many asian countries (which were not and ARE NOT islamic), it was a shame for a woman to SPEAK at all - that was regarded as a big tabu and in some cases punishable by death.

In Persia and Arabia, face covering was common ammong women long before Islam too. The Roman African Christian Tertullian, writing around 200 AD, praises the modesty of those "pagan women of Arabia" who "not only cover their head, but their whole face...preferring to enjoy half the light with one eye rather than prostituting their whole face."

The problem with people like you is that they do not want to SEE nor differentiate between a CULTURAL and a RELIGIOUS issue.

It's much easier to just classify them all with one name and throw em in a bag, isn't it?

Yet, the fact remains that the reason you see so many women in Afghanistan wearing burqas has nothing to do with islam. They would be wearing burqas even if Afghanistan happened to be christian.

I can turn this around: Why are albanian women not wearing burqas? Neither muslim nor christian ones?
Because that was never in our culture.

"Modesty", quoting you, as you put it in quotation marks, is something ordained in the Bible and in the Qur'an - for both men and women.

I would like to ask you: Why are there no nuns wearing mini skirts, or running around WITHOUT a head covering? Think about it.

Originally posted by skajkingdom

Originally posted by felonius
I dont see German women running around with body bags for "modesty"...unless they are non-germanic infiltrators.

New York and Paris arent wearing body bags.

Just lslamic countries.

So, for your information: Even BEFORE, loooooooooooooooooooooooong before Islam came to the (Middle)Eastern countries (e.g. Afghanistan, and all the "-stans" there) it was in THEIR culture for women to be veiled. Heck, in many asian countries (which were not and ARE NOT islamic), it was a shame for a woman to SPEAK at all - that was regarded as a big tabu and in some cases punishable by death.

In Persia and Arabia, face covering was common ammong women long before Islam too. The Roman African Christian Tertullian, writing around 200 AD, praises the modesty of those "pagan women of Arabia" who "not only cover their head, but their whole face...preferring to enjoy half the light with one eye rather than prostituting their whole face."

The problem with people like you is that they do not want to SEE nor differentiate between a CULTURAL and a RELIGIOUS issue.

It's much easier to just classify them all with one name and throw em in a bag, isn't it?

Yet, the fact remains that the reason you see so many women in Afghanistan wearing burqas has nothing to do with islam. They would be wearing burqas even if Afghanistan happened to be christian.

I can turn this around: Why are albanian women not wearing burqas? Neither muslim nor christian ones?
Because that was never in our culture.

"Modesty", quoting you, as you put it in quotation marks, is something ordained in the Bible and in the Qur'an - for both men and women.

I would like to ask you: Why are there no nuns wearing mini skirts, or running around WITHOUT a head covering? Think about it.

So a muslim islamic religionist person never heard about ... sharia law?

Originally posted by gordonwest

So a muslim islamic religionist person never heard about ... sharia law?

No, never heard of it, what is that?

Well you've talked about yourself long enough if marriage is in the future then so are childern...You given any though to what you are dragging your childern into? People change, women change, men change what may look easy today can be your and your childrns nightmare.

You better check out slow poisons.

Good luck...

reply to post by empireofpain

again all those qualities you stated can be found in ANY girl....any ATHEIST girl more likely then not.

Sez you. I know more honest, lucid, level headed atheist, wiccan and non christian women than you want to admit to.

Oh, and BTW- If Christian women are all that and a bag of chips, why do ANY of them have the aforementioned qualities in the first place? Hmmmm?

muslims are beautiful people i was engaged to be married to a woman whos family and self was from tehran; the thing people dont like or are consciously aware of about muslims people in entirety is their impersonal and personal actions and how their impersonal and personal actions are not like the "wests".it i not impersonal for a muslim person to speak about a noun personally.my fiancée would always talk about how she hated america and to me she saw america as a thing, she was always able to express herself to/about america in ways that were fantastic and bordering insanity.

her love for my person exceeded my perception of my own character and she allowed me to grow in many beautiful ways.we had to part because of this.

does a good american follow christ?and is america a christian nation?


if i am in japan and it is personal for someone to be impersonal with me by bowing; if i am in iran it is impersonal for me to be personal with what someone holds in their own mind value.

Yes had she tried you would have been dead.... see that the thing.

reply to post by skajkingdom


Well, here we go...

Qur'an (2:191-193)
"And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers."

The historical context of this verse speaks nothing of self defense. Muslims are to slaughter unbelievers wherever they are unless the person is in the mosque because it is holy ground. They can only attack in the mosque if they are attacked first.

Qur'an (2:216)
"Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not."

Fighting is a good thing. In its context, this verse came about as a motivation to get people to form raiding parties according to the Hadith.

Qur'an (9:29)
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "

Ok, this one is really important. The law of abrogation comes into play here (newer revelations override older ones and become authoritative. This was convenient for Muhammad, since Allah was always changing his mind to best fit the prophet's needs). This was one of the last "revelations" that Muhammad had. It overrules any of the previous verses that spoke of taking Christians and Jews as friends.


Oh, and the women have to love this one, since so many are convinced that Islam was the vanguard of women's rights...

Qur'an (4:34)
"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Men, if your women don't listen to you, don't give them the pleasure of sex and beat her until she obeys.

Oh, and here are some verses that show just how women were viewed in general right out of the Qur'an...

Qur'an (2:282) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women."

(A woman's testimony is not as trustworthy and so it is worth half as much as a man's)

Oh, and one of the favorites...

Qur'an (2:223)
"Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like, and do good beforehand for yourselves, and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers."

Women are to submit to every desire of their husbands and let their bodies be ravished however the man desires. The women have no say in the matter and are viewed as property to be used and abused.

If that post seemed offensive, it's probably because you jumped the gun and moved straight to personal insult instead of trying to have an actual conversation.

I'm guessing you are going to tell me that all of these things are taken out of context and that I have to read Arabic to actually understand what is being said. If that isn't enough to convince everybody I am wrong, you will probably resort to attacking me personally and then attacking Christians because the faith is so corrupt as is evidenced by the provocative and promiscuous behavior of Western women. Since Christians and Westerners are all evil and wrong, Muhammad and the Qur'an must be right. Did I get that about right?

Originally posted by Mykahel
Did I get that about right?

No.


And it says "drive them out from where THEY DROVE YOU OUT".
Here, you say there is nothing in the context about self defense.
How much more clearer need the verse be that it is INDEED in self defense.

For all of you who don't know: The verse is revealed after Muhammad and his companions were DRIVEN OUT from their City (Makkah), after being tortured, killed, robbed, etc.
It is the verse giving permission to fight the pagans who FOUGHT THEM FIRST.

As about all other verses - it would take too much to write about them all now (I'm at work), but I will write later, insha Allah.

P.S. I did not attack you personally, and I will not.

reply to post by skajkingdom


Oh? It seemed pretty insulting to me how you replied to my first post. If it wasn't a personal attack, than I misunderstood.

Also, any land that was taken from the Muslims would have first been taken from the Jews, Christians, or pagans in the land at the point of a sword. Taking land back isn't self defense anyway. It might be justified, but it is not the same as self defense. Not losing the land in the first place would be considered self defense.

Normally, taking land back that was taken from you would be considered justice or retribution. Considering they had taken it from somebody else first though, I'm not really sure how that would apply in this case.

Originally posted by Mykahel
reply to post by skajkingdom

 

Normally, taking land back that was taken from you would be considered justice or retribution. Considering they had taken it from somebody else first though, I'm not really sure how that would apply in this case.

Ahm ... What?!

Who did the arabs take makkah from?

Wasnt it Ismail who basically founded makkah, and he is the forefather of arabs.

Originally posted by astrogolf
reply to post by whitl103

 

And yes, there are muslims on ATS. Did you happen to read it the last two weeks. Either muslims or nazis. I've never seen so much irrational jew hating in my life.

I doubt there are many Muslims or Nazis on this board but rabid Zionist and lots of Jews for sure wearing the JIDF armband. Also next time use this will save you the effort of typing



As for the OP so what's the big deal in this? What did you expect...everyone is same. Heck! when i slept with christians, jews and hindu girls I did not faced any threat either eventhough all these 4 (islam, christianity, judiasm and hindu) are known to be the most violent religions..it's no big deal man. In every religions you will find the same. I understand the point you are trying to make but again it's no big deal.

reply to post by skajkingdom


There is a difference between Arabs and Muslims. Being Caucasian doesn't make a person an American or a Christian any more than being an Arab makes a person a Muslim. Arabs have been there forever, yes, but the Muslim population forced their beliefs on the people living in Mecca. Muhammad was furious at the worship of multiple gods. He and his followers took the land by force.

I forgot about the dispute on the history since the Bible says that Isaac was the chosen son, where the Muslims claim it was Ishmael.