The myth of the pro Israeli bias in foreign media- From my (an Israeli) point of view.

Originally posted by Lionel
reply to post by Eliad

 

EIlad. Thank you for highlighting the dangers faced by the brave Israeli soldiers. I wonder how many of those who criticize Israel would tolerate the kind of aggression the IDF have to face every day. What part of "Chosen People" & "Promised Land" don't these pre-teen terrorists understand?

LOL

That's some funny satire

Unless you're really serious?

Does Israel need so many WMDs to protect themselves against Preteen Terrorists?

Oohhh they are so brave, those IDF facing the little stone throwers!

Israel still thinking David and Goliath?

Interesting you judging someone else's Avatar, yours shows what years of head banging against a wall does to the mind.

Originally posted by Eliad
Further more the Jews never attacked the Nazis, the west bank has.

The people of the Warsaw ghetto did rise up once they realised what the Nazi's were planning to do, Palestinians would say that they're not willing to hang around waiting for the Jews to set up extermination camps before they start fighting back.

Seeing as you haven't actually outlined the difference, I assume you concede that there is very little difference between the gettoisation of Polish Jews by the Nazi's and the present behavior of Israel toward the Palestinians?

We are not looking to expend.. We're looking for peace.

Who is "we"? The illegal settlers are certainly looking to expand "Israel". The government hasn't removed them and the IDF protects them so it seems the government supports them, I don't understand who this "we" might be.

[edit on 18/6/10 by pieman]

Originally posted by Eliad
As another example, in the flotilla incident almost none of those TV news channels showed the footage taken by the Israeli army, which shows them getting beaten up on a thermal camera, from three angles.

The Israelis illegally pirated a ship in international waters. What would you do if a ship you were a board was illegally pirated? Sit there and take it like a coward? The flotilla members were defending themselves. Israel isn't the only one with a "Right to Self Defense".
Israel was the aggressor, show whatever footage you want, Israel was still in the wrong. What about all of the footage from the people aboard the flotilla? The footage that shows the IDF shooting people in the back and indiscriminately firing in to rooms full of people?

Any criticism of Israel in the media is warranted by there own actions and hypocrisy.

Top 10 Myths about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

Originally posted by Eliad
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
It is pathetic you try to hide behind politics. Israelis are racial supremacists, exactly the same as the Aryan brotherhood. We didn't stand for their BS for too long, and you will have the same fate.
The Jewish race should kiss its ass every morning and thank God, we don't stand for that kind of thing. Or the Nazis would have completed their little mission. Maybe you should think about that.

I was referring to this..
Do you still have a problem with my statement?
I almost never pull the "anti Semite" card as I feel it is irrelevant to the discussion.
In this case it was just getting a bit out of hand..
Or maybe I'm just more sensitive?

I think anyone who rushes to judgments like all Israelis are racial supremacists without really knowing any Israelis, being fed all their information from news channels will never see the big picture unless they throttle down on emotions a bit, and start looking at things more analytically.

With respect,
Eliad.

True, the generality about Israelis is wrong...as wrong as it is to attack Americans (or anybody else) based upon the policies of their governments.

As to hating Jews? I didn't get that out of the discussion. While not the most mannerly discourse, I doubt that's what the poster meant. But where you discern antisemitism, I saw the fall-back mechanism. Maybe we both ought to let the poster clarify.

The issue at hand? In some places, there is shameful bias against Israel...in others a pro-Israeli bias is glaringly evident. Where it becomes a problem is when the acts of the Israeli government are given a free pass...no matter what the circumstances. No one is above accountability, and to suppress that accountability is an evil.

[edit on 18-6-2010 by JohnnyCanuck]

Originally posted by Expat888
The chinese have alot more regard for humanity than isreal ever will.

Many slave factories still operating

SANTA’S WORKSHOP – Inside China’s SLAVE labor toy factories

China ‘slave labour claims’ hit IT factories

Striking Workers Shut Down Chinese Honda Factories: Where Is Slave Labor When We Need It?

Chinese factory workers have incentives to kill themselves on the job

Chinese Fur Farms - Skin Animals Alive

Raccoon Dogs are Skinned Alive in China

China: Secret “Black Jails” Hide Severe Rights AbusesUnlawful Detention Facilities Breed Violence, Threats

Organ harvesting in the People's Republic of China
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Human rights in TibetFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Human rights in the People's Republic of China
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Human Rights in China (organization)From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.China's Internet Crackdown

They surely improved after the Olympics

I won't pretend I know much about the history of the area, but I know a bit. I'd just like to say that I was in Israel for a visit recently (during the flotilla incident). Having traveled through the country, I have to completely agree with Eliad, and i think he handled all the debates as accurately as I myself understand the situations.

I'm personally kind of confused with the idea that the media is pro-Israel (the only one I see is Fox, all others are against. I'm in Canada btw). I tend to read whatever I can get my hands on and I don't believe so. Some things are downright lies. For example, the media was saying that the 3 Israeli subs were already deployed and there was a lot of buzz about it. That very day, I saw first hand one of those subs docked, rather permanently. So unless a sub can be in 2 places at once, the media was lying.

Also, re the sensationalistic bullet proof vests the CNN/BBC/etc. reporters had on to look like it's so scary and unsafe. I went to the exact hill/cliff that they were on. In fact the reporters were just lounging around; a few preparing their equipments, one lying further away under a tree sleeping. Where were their protective gear when the camera isn't rolling? Not on them, because there was nothing unsafe about that location. Right below where all the CNN/BBC/etc reporters did their scary news reports was a cafe where people sipped coffee. FYI the reporters were a bit wary of us taking pics of them.

As for someone a couple pages back mentioning how the hamas attacks only land in open fields (i.e. don't kill many people), a town/small city I was in, across from Gaza, gets attacks regularly. You probably just don't hear about as many casualties as the Palestineans because Israel actually tries to protect the citizens; there was a bomb shelter at every bus station and the school had a HUGE barrier over it to protect the children from missiles. Is there such protection on the other side?

As for the so called innocent stone throwing from the west bank (not necessarily at the tanks, but at people). For the record, I really think they should call a lot of them "small boulders" or "large rocks" instead of "stones". We walked a pathway littered with what were thrown days before. We were instructed to not stop and stay as far back as possible, but if any of those "stones" hit anyone, you for sure would at least be severely injured if not killed.

Like I said, I don't know much and I have no intention of debating with people. But everyone seems to like to have an opinion on big bad Israel and without having been there. I was fairly neutral going in, but seeing these along with the settlements (even from a short distance) were quite an eye opener.

The only thing I don't agree with Eliad is about the China/Tibet issue, which I'm sorry is another heavy bias from western media filled with lies. I won't go into it because the whole thing gets me quite angry, and it'd be rather OT.

reply to post by filosophia


I wasn't arguing with that, I don't only admit that the government calls them terrorists, I also happen to agree that they are.
The article that you've given me was taken from the Israeli ministry of foreign affairs, and in Israel we do call them terrorists.
The word suicide bomber in Hebrew is actually (in translation from Hebrew) "suicide terrorist".

But not a lot of other news sources refer to them as terrorists on a regular basis- It's always rocket attacks, and suicide bombers, etc..
If I'm wrong correct me, but I'm mostly referring to big news sources.
But I think you've missed my point..

Someone said that if the media was biased against Israel they'd call it the terrorist government of Israel, and I simply stated that they wouldn't even if they were biased, as it's completely unprofessional, in the same was you don't see every new story about the hamas starting with "the terrorist government of hamas", even though they are considered a terrorist organization.

Also I don't dispute your second point- leaders and politicians will often say dumb things, that will then be corrected by their peers or PR experts.

Lastly I am looking at what my government is doing.. Some of it worries me, some of it seems stupid, redundant, some even tragic.
But I know my country, and I know its people, and I know its army.
Whatever mistakes are made, they are not made in the name of evil, racism, colonialism, zionism, etc.
Some politics just have no guts to do what it takes. They aim to please everyone, and anger no one, so they end up doing nothing.
This is the curse of Israeli politics.
But there is always a light at the end of the tunnel.

With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by Village Idiot

LOL

That's some funny satire

Unless you're really serious?

Does Israel need so many WMDs to protect themselves against Preteen Terrorists?

Oohhh they are so brave, those IDF facing the little stone throwers!

Israel still thinking David and Goliath?

Interesting you judging someone else's Avatar, yours shows what years of head banging against a wall does to the mind.

Does this conflict have anything to do with WMDs?

Have you any idea what soldiers went through in Gaza? I wouldn't wish my worst enemy one day in that place.

And they are hardly armed with rocks.
They're armed with guns, and RPGs, and advanced anti tank rockets.
And bombs. Lots and lots of bombs and explosives.
They rigged everything. Roads, schools, houses.

Again, I wouldn't wish you had spent one day in Gaza during the cast lead operation, even if you were the person I hated the most in the world.

And you can imagine how the civilians in Gaza felt when they were forced by hamas to stay in their homes, or asked by Israel to leave it.

It seems like your nickname fits you well.

[edit on 18-6-2010 by Eliad]

reply to post by pieman


They did rise up, but the nazis didn't force them in there because of that, they forced them in there because they wanted to get rid of them.

I don't know if you know, but before the last intifada (I think) Palestinians were allowed to come to Israel, and used to work in Israel with work permits and such.
Those restrictions were only imposed on them after they started blowing # up in the streets of Israel.
It is completely different.

But I would agree that the end result is somewhat similar, therefor many people come to the conclusion that it's the same, and has been done for the same reasons.

Who's we? I don't know.. Secular, normative, Jewish Israelis 20-40 years old?
Zionism is dead. The settlers are misguided fools, and the army protects them because if it hadn't they would either be slaughtered, or they'd take up arms, and then god knows what could happen...
The government still supports them to some extent, but that has to do with Israeli politics, with the orthodox Jewish lobby, and our incompetent leaders, who always aim to please everyone and step on no one toes, and therefor end up doing nothing.
But it's slowly coming to an end.
I mean the people of Israel are taking time to adjust to the fact that the west bank is no longer interested in terror, and truly wants peace.

And BTW, those settlers are doing it for ideological reasons rather then for the sake of expending itself..
I think their ideology is more about not giving it back, and that these areas are somehow sacred, rather then wanting more land for Israel. I'm not 100% sure though, so I might be mistaken..

With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by NotTooHappy


Very interesting read, thank you.
Most of these were not myths to me, and I agree with the spirit of this article.
Some of it is a bit off though, but most of it is reasonable.

Now here's something for you to read on the Piracy of Israel:
www.reuters.com...

This is by Reuters, BTW, the same guys who cropped photos to hide knives in th hands of peace activists..

With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Actually after that the discussion turned must more pleasant. But up until that point it was rather rude, with the climax being those comments.

And I would say that saying the Jews should kiss their ass for not being destroyed by the world for their evils is pretty bad..

I don't know whether or not he hates Jews or Israelis in general, but at any rate he seems to have grown to like me
Or at least respect me.
Or at least tolerate me..

So maybe there's hope for all of us yet.

And yes, the anti Semite card is rather weak in a debate, but that doesn't mean that it's not valid..

With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by ATSdelurker


What channels do you feel are against Israel, and in what way?

What about Canada? What's the press coverage there like?

Do you have any connection to Israel, or did you just come to visit?

reply to post by Eliad


My nick fits me well?

Yes well, unfortunately I'm not one of the chosen ones
When God made me, I distinctly heard the words...Whoops!

By the way, I was revering to the rediculas comment made by lionel, not the overall Gaza situation, as you say, I have no idea without being there.

You'll have no argument from me when it comes to Hamas, they do more harm than good to their own People, but this is not what People are against, it,s the way Israel is dealing and has dealt with this ongoing conflict, and amount of cover ups and propaganda that entail.

Israel needs to be straight up, They have a Barbaric Neighbor that needs controlling, but don't let that justify loosing all self morals and become the oppressors.
The World supports her plight, but not her course of actions

reply to post by Village Idiot


Alright then, I take it back, and I apologize.

I also tend to agree with most of what you're saying.

I got the wrong impression on your first post as it was very "LOL this, WMD that..".

Oh, and cut it out with the chosen ones bull#..

With respect,
Eliad.

[edit on 18-6-2010 by Eliad]

reply to post by Eliad


Funny one.
Read the comments after the article. The 6th one in particular points the false information in the article.

The hijacking of the freedom flotilla was illegal.

reply to post by Eliad


Agreed, the Chosen one comments have no place in any debate, I realize that that is not a common viewpoint Jews have of themselves, and even if they did, no problem at all, unless it gave cause to having greater Human rights.....

Gee, now I'm rambling......



You were right the first time..... the nick fits!

Here is a question for you Eliad...

Osama Bin Laden and his men were once labeled "freedom fighters" by the U.S. and backed by them when fighting the Russian occupation in Afghanistan. The Russians thought of them as terrorists.

But now those same men fighting the U.S. occupation are suddenly terrorists. Even though they are using identical tactics. Working within the population etc...



Doesn't that show you that the label terrorist is a political tool, and may not represent reality at all. Quite simply if you are the oppressor, anyone fighting you is a terrorist.

Do you agree that is a logical and fair statement ?

Another question for you Eliad...

You say Zionism is dead, and the Stern Gangs plans have not been made official policy and carried out. By troops in the IDF.

Then how can you explain their plan being carried out almost down to the last detail. After they formed the IDF . 60 years of coincidences ? Are you saying they were prophets ? Or just guessed what the people of Israel were going to do ?

I really would like your explanation of this.

" And I would say that saying the Jews should kiss their ass for not being destroyed by the world for their evils is pretty bad.."


That is not what I said or meant. You are being a weasel.

I was referring to the obvious hypocritical situation of Israelis complaining of being judged by their actions by the world. And complaining about people willing to ACT on it.

If people like that did not exist, Hitler would have finished his little plan, because everybody would have said either ...

(a) " oh its very complicated "

(b) " only the Germans and Jews fully understand the situation, so we should leave them to it "

Sound familiar ?

Okay, I feel like this is a good example- The news of Israel removing the civilian ban on Gaza. In Israeli papers it was something like this-

Unlimited chocolate

Cabinet approved the removal of the civil closure over Gaza • From now on all food - including sweets and coriander - come to the shops without special permission • Barak: Keep security arrangements


International pressure has run its course. The cabinet of security significantly relieved the closure of the Gaza Strip yesterday, stating that the Civil closure over the Gaza Strip will be removed. This means: from now on all goods and food, including chocolate, candy and coriander can go to the shops in the cities of Gaza without restriction or special permission from Israel. However, naval and military blockade will continue.

Israel announced its decision to the Palestinian Authority, as there is no contact with the Hamas regime in Gaza. A controversial decision that has to be clarified is whether to allow the EU police representatives stationed in Israel to stand in the border passes and supervise the movement of goods.

Cabinet decision was made after discussions which lasted two days, during which the ministers heard reports of the heads of security agencies. An end it was decided that "Israel must adapt its policy in regards to the Gaza Strip", and stated that "entry method Gaza's civilian goods will be changed. " It was further determined that building materials will enter the Gaza Strip after establishing that they have a civilian purpose, to avoid it being used for build bunkers for Hamas. Cabinet statement said the military blockade would continue on the Gaza Strip, and that maintaining the existing security arrangements and measures to prevent the entry of weapons into Gaza fighting supporters - will continue.

The U.S. and the UN welcomed Israel's decision last night. "Washington expressed hope that implementation of measures which Israel declared could improve the situation in the region", said the U.S. government, UN spokesman in the name of Ban Ki Moon said that "the Secretary General encourages the Israeli government's decision to examine its policy toward Gaza, and he expressed hope that This is a real step towards a situation that will meet all the needs of the residents in the Gaza Strip. "

A bit pro Israeli, but not too bad, right?

Now this is foreign sources-

Israel has not voted to end its blockade of Gaza — it would deem such a move a victory for the territory's Hamas rulers and also a vindication of the effort to break the siege by the aid flotilla that was raided by the Israeli military, resulting in the deaths of nine activists. Instead, according to a government statement on Thursday, Israel has "agreed to liberalize the system by which civilian goods enter Gaza [and] expand the inflow of materials for civilian projects that are under international supervision." In other words, to ease the blockade.

www.time.com...

Notice the word ease was in italics...

Notice any difference? Or is it all in my head... I don't know anymore..
And every news source is saying ease, as if we're taking one or two items off the list, instead of saying remove, as every civilian commodity is now being allowed... All that's being banned now are weapons..

I've found a couple of other examples of this kind of reporting..

Wouldn't you say this is a bit anti Israeli?
I mean, I don't think it's completely biased, but it certainly isn't pro Israeli, right?

I mean, if you read this would you think "oh good, Israel is changing its policies" or "damn those cunning Jews- First they murder, now they fold to pressure, but they won't clear the blockade because they're too damn proud" or something like that?

I mean even when Israel does something right the reader is constantly reminded that it's evil.. It's like they're saying- "Yes, it did a good thing, but don't be fooled".
Why? Why not just report it?

Am I just imagining this?

Would you at least agree that they're not pro Israeli? And that most articles on the matter aren't as well?