No answer for a simple question.

Originally posted by sirnex

Originally posted by Aresh Troxit

I know of Bob Lazar.

OMFG... your one of those people. My bad, there is no reasoning with you.

Where does it mean I'm a fan of Bob Lazar?

You proved today, by you comments and insults, that you have a boring life. Sheesh.

[edit on 16-6-2010 by Aresh Troxit]

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Alas, it's so true...

But, just like the Founding Fathers of the US had to stand up against monarchy to gain their liberties, create something new to regulate a free society, scientists will have to do something.

We began to see it with the 10 000+ scientists that co-signed a paper denouncing global warming. I just wish it would happen on a grander scale, and on more topics...

reply to post by Aresh Troxit


This is the question you asked in your OP.

What will it take to stop this nonsense?

Here is where as everyone can see, I have reponded to that question.

If no one else posts anything to this thread, that should pretty much put an end to it.

[edit on 16-6-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by randyvs


You do not practice what you preach?

If I had started a thread about the moral integrity of religious organizations and their members, I probably would have a 1000 positive comments and 200 flags!...

Ah... we just can't talk about a new religion it seems, as is the case with science...

reply to post by Aresh Troxit

You do not practice what you preach?

Listen up guy. I don't preach and I don't need any practice.
You asked a question and you have your answer.
What?

reply to post by randyvs


All I see is you not talking about the OP.

Unless you have no idea what it is about, what do you expect by posting here?

Well, "in conclusion", I can say that reading from all the comments, advocating prostitution of the mind is deemed acceptable in science circles, just like the entertainment business, politics and prostitution...

It is a lame excuse to say that the guy doesn't know what will happen to or with his research. When you have genetically modified an organism to make it more lethal, you can hardly say you don't know what it will be used for.

It seems, after all, the Mad Scientist does exist.

And with the help of science, despite all the good it has brought us, the 20th century has seen more deaths than the previous centuries combined...

What's the use to save children by eradicating dangerous maladies if you go and bomb them the next day?...

reply to post by Aresh Troxit

And with the help of science, despite all the good it has brought us, the 20th century has seen more deaths than the previous centuries combined...

Utter garbage and shows a lack of knowing human history. Religion (yes, that supposed "good" thing) is the biggest causation of death throughout history, especially within the last two thousand years.

Here is another thing... Einsteins E=MC2 and the discovery of antimatter. Those two things used together can either provide clean energy or build the worlds most devastating weapon ever seen in history.

Should we ostracize Einstein and those who made the first few hundred grams of antimatter if some government decides to build a bomb with it?

You place the blame on the wrong people. How about you exercise a little humility and acknowledge that you and I are the ones to blame for allowing these thing's to happen. No amount of whining and bitching on ATS is going to change policies or stop wars or disarm nations. Grow the hell up already.

Originally posted by Aresh Troxit
reply to post by sirnex

 

You are too stupid and insulting to keep talking to. FU.

Wow ... You make an erroneous and bold claim placing blame against the wrong people and you can't even show a mediocre level of intelligent discussion when given a rational inquiry ...

Yea, OK pal, I'm the stupid one.

it's not science itself, it's the science of greed.

Example: an item that once created, can last years, if not decades (a battery, for this example). Clean, continuous energy.

Science has been manipulated to the point that the 'best' they can come up with is something that lasts for like 2 weeks, and then you have to go buy a new one. No one makes money if they sell ONE item and no one has to buy it again for like 10- 20 years. That just isn't profitable. Same for food preservatives. The faster and more you buy, the happier the greedy people are. Same for everything else, in fact.

[edit on 16-6-2010 by wylekat]

reply to post by wylekat


I would't mind paying all my life for a car that would last that long. It would be better than paying 20 to 30 thousand dollars every 5 years, knowing that the car will go to the dump after a few years.

I guess I should have written "scientists" in my OP instead of science... LOL

But notice it is OK to say "religion is stupid" and "politics are crappy", but apparently not "science makes bad choices".
Somethings can't be touched.

Heh. Scientists. They rig data in their favor, they have a peer review that is based on popularity more than actual facts or the theory at hand, And have you noticed how many 'real' advancements have just simply disappeared and/ or aren't talked about?

Science IS like everything else- religion, politics, ect... popularity and money rule the day.

reply to post by wylekat


What is bothering me about this is that people will make war for politics, religion or economics, but will keep silent on science.
They managed to give the impression of being almighty and infallible, much smarter on everything, and yet, the state of health of living creatures and that of the planet are going down the drain for that.

Originally posted by Aresh Troxit
What did Oppenheimer say when he saw the first explosion? He realized they had made the biggest mistake of their entire career...

"It worked." (said after witnessing the first atomic detonation).

www.brainyquote.com...

Now I can understand how at that moment that was his only concern. I can see how a scientist/engineer can disassociate himself from the implications of his work and see it as an intellectual exercise, a puzzle to solve, knowledge to be discovered for it's own sake. Focussing so closely on the details that the bigger picture isn't seen.

When you see something that is technically sweet, you go ahead and do it and you argue about what to do about it only after you have had your technical success. That is the way it was with the atomic bomb.

www.brainyquote.com...

Later of course came the realisation and the regret.

In some sort of crude sense, which no vulgarity, no humor, no overstatement can quite extinguish, the physicists have known sin; and this is a knowledge which they cannot lose.

www.brainyquote.com...

For many years I was a lab technician and often wondered how could some scientists work in areas I wouldn't consider. Bombs and nerve gas and bio weapons and all the rest. I think I detected a clue in the Oppenheimer clip about the prince doing his duty. Patriotism, shortening the war, saving lives in the long run, all these ideas come into play I guess.

Who is responsible when you get right down to it? Well I read these few lines at school over 40 years ago and never forgot the message.

The Responsibility by Peter Appleton

reply to post by Aresh Troxit

but will keep silent on science

Silent on what? That everything can be used for either good or bad?

I'm pissed that our education system allows pencils in schools because children can use them to stab other kids in the neck. Pencils are dangerous weapons that can easily kill another human or at the very least, seriously injure someone. Why would our education system allow such dangerous implements of destruction be in our kids possession!

Do you honestly not see the idiocy of where your placing blame? Knowing HOW to do something is different from ACTUALLY doing something. Just because some scientist discovers something does not make him at fault for how someone else uses that knowledge. Please stop picking on the people who make it possible for you to bitch about them, you sound stupid and hypocritical.

reply to post by Crazy Man Michael


Thank you. I will look at your link about the responsibility.

You know, I can understand the imperatives of a war, but hardly in a time of peace. And there is also the problem of dangerous products being labelled a safe. THAT, I can't understand...

Thanks again!

After reading the text in the link, well, maybe my question wasn't so silly, after all!

[edit on 16-6-2010 by Aresh Troxit]

reply to post by Aresh Troxit

I don't think your question is silly at all, as science and ethics do seem to be at odds with each other in many areas. Yes, perhaps in wartime there is some justification for going beyond the bounds of "acceptable" research, but there are many everyday examples of what I find unacceptable. For example I've gone without work rather than accept a job testing on animals for the cosmetic industry.

It seems sadly true that almost any advance in science can be used to work evil. That seems to be just the way we humans are and how we allow the world to work. Even Isaac Newton's work on gravity and the laws of motion was quickly put to work by artillerymen calculating trajectories for seige cannon.

In your OP you asked

What will it take to stop this nonsense?

I think the answer is in recognising and accepting our personal responsibility. All of us, the scientists and the rest of us who pay the taxes, vote in the politicians and buy all the products.

reply to post by Crazy Man Michael

It seems sadly true that almost any advance in science can be used to work evil. That seems to be just the way we humans are and how we allow the world to work. Even Isaac Newton's work on gravity and the laws of motion was quickly put to work by artillerymen calculating trajectories for seige cannon.

What's sad is the erroneous place of blame int he OP.

Something as simple as a rock or tree branch can either be used for good or bad. Should we blame the Earth for having rocks and tree's because a few people want to use them to beat you rather than build houses with them?

He places blame against the wrong people.

He is more to blame than the scientists as he uses the very technologies that are also used by others to do bad thing's. He buy's it and allows for it's production. He's nothing more than another whiny hypocrite.

reply to post by Crazy Man Michael


I couldn't agree more with you!
second line