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What if the Freemasonry conspiracy was actually a fabricated by the Catholic Church?

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posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by KSigMason

Originally posted by NarrowGate
The Catholic Church is Gods official church on earth.

According to man.


I have seen no evidence to the contrary. I would be grateful for some. Accusations won't cut it, because we are all sinners and all men.




posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 01:19 PM
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What an interesting thread. Regarding the similarities between freemasonry and Knights of Columbus I can tell you from firsthand experience that the only real internal similarity is that both initiations begin with a knock at a door. From there they diverge quickly and completely. Beyond that they are comparable externally in charity and fraternity.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by AvisNigra
 


Fraternity is not a concern of mine. "charity" (which is just doing what you should when you can) is necessary along with truth.

The knock you mentioned interests me.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by AvisNigra
 


Fraternity is not a concern of mine. "charity" (which is just doing what you should when you can) is necessary along with truth.

The knock you mentioned interests me.


No concern for fraternity? Why? Are you a female or a loner? There's no one I'd rather spend time with than my wife, but second to her I do love a nice evening with gentlemen around good food, cigars and a beer or good drink. I enjoy that with the lodge or with the council hall (KofC) and with colleagues who are involved in neither.

And you're right about charity; giving is necessary. It's the core nature of God Himself - "for God so loved that He GAVE....." When we truly learn to give (especially "how" to give) we find happiness, wealth and direction. It's an immutable law. Many who've gotten plugged into charity as a lifestyle have discovered that.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 02:27 PM
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For those Christians that are presently a Mason or are thinking of becoming a Mason, I would recommend reading this. It was written by a former high ranking Mason.

In this world that is the anonymous internet, I know my opinion won't change any lives, so take it for what it's worth. I would still highly recommend you guys give that article a read.

Cheers.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by IsidoreOfSeville
For those Christians that are presently a Mason or are thinking of becoming a Mason, I would recommend reading this. It was written by a former high ranking Mason.

In this world that is the anonymous internet, I know my opinion won't change any lives, so take it for what it's worth. I would still highly recommend you guys give that article a read.

Cheers.


Salza makes interesting and valid points. I've read through all this material and talked with him as well. Certain things he said gave me pause, but in the end I think his view of syncretism and relativism - which is central to his argument - is something that can be argued both ways. Bottom line - if masonry draws one away from Christ then that person should leave. For me, it has deepened my walk with my Savior and I continue to welcome its ancillary support in my faith. The moment it steers me wrong I'll be through the door before the hinges squeak.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by IsidoreOfSeville
For those Christians that are presently a Mason or are thinking of becoming a Mason, I would recommend reading this. It was written by a former high ranking Mason.


And if you are interested in the truth stay away from anything allegedly written by a 'high ranking Mason'. Because there is no such thing.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by IsidoreOfSeville
 

What are his credentials that establish him as a "high ranking Mason"? He was a 32nd degree Mason and Shriner. By those credentials almost every Mason here on ATS is a "high ranking" Mason.

I've heard about him only recently on a few threads and nothing that he says concerns me as I've never been moved by the religiously intolerant. His opinion and his inability to reconcile the teachings with his own faith is not indicative of any wrongdoing on behalf of Freemasonry.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 03:35 PM
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He is the author of this book.

Did you guys actually visit his site?



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by IsidoreOfSeville
He is the author of this book.

Did you guys actually visit his site?


There is absolutely no need to read anything this guy writes ever. He is a geocentrist (because past Papal Bulls and Encylicals said so) and is obviously retarded.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


Is there any real confirmation, other than his 'word', that he was a 32° Freemason, and Shriner?



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
Is there any real confirmation, other than his 'word', that he was a 32° Freemason, and Shriner?


He was a Mason for about 3 years and then found out he had a 'conflict' with his religion.

And obviously his sanity.




edit on 29-1-2013 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer but knows that Josh Norton is the real center of the Universe



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by IsidoreOfSeville
He is the author of this book.

Did you guys actually visit his site?


There is absolutely no need to read anything this guy writes ever. He is a geocentrist (because past Papal Bulls and Encylicals said so) and is obviously retarded.


Oh dear me, that's troubling. Geocentrism? Fo realz, yo? I had to go read the link you supplied. Goodness gracious.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 04:58 PM
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Hmmm.. yeah I just caught that on his site, I seriously never noticed that before!
I've emailed him, we'll see if I get a response. I have to admit, as compelling as his arguments are against a Christian being a Mason, the whole geocentric thing makes it hard for him to be a credible source.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 05:22 PM
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Sort of beginning a tangent here, but that geocentric thing really bothers me. So off to the intrawebs I went. I found the below dated 16 Jan 2013:


May I gently point out that what is considered as unanimously interpreted by the Early Church Fathers is only in the realm of faith and morals. It is Genesis 1: 1 which became a Catholic doctrine not movements of celestial bodies.

Furthermore, a "consensus" of the Church Fathers is not enough to become in itself a Catholic Doctrine. That is like the tail wagging the dog. The way the visible Catholic Church operates on earth is that when a fuller description of a Catholic truth is needed, it is discussed, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, at a major Ecumenical Church Council. At the time of Galileo, including the centuries before him, it was the province of Church Councils to formally and properly define a Catholic Doctrine and to duly proclaim it to the universal Church.

In addition to the actual gathering of Church leaders from around the world, there was in-depth preparation. This meant months or years of studying every written word of Holy Scripture and the Early Church Fathers, previous Councils, Saints, etc., etc., Plus there was the essential preparation of prayer.

A Papal Commission or a Holy Office does not have the same authority as an Ecumenical Church Council when it comes to infallible Catholic doctrines.


Soooo... if I understand this correctly, this means that proving science is outside the Church's lane.. essentially it wasn't a council that condemned Copernicus for his heliocentric views.... therefore this isn't something a dogma that all Catholics must believe in... that right?



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 06:16 PM
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So the point is, his arguments about Christianity and Masons are still valid, as it is one from a theological perspective, not a scientific one.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 06:35 PM
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masonry and the religions of the masses have been intimately cocerned with one another for a long, long, time me thinks
edit on 1/29/2013 by indigothefish because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by IsidoreOfSeville
 

Yes, I read the link you provided. I've seen the videos and his opinion is irrelevant. You call him a "high ranking" Mason, but so many use that term without any knowledge on the fact.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas
 

Not that I know of.

reply to post by indigothefish
 

[facepalm]

Those are not Masonic handshakes. Not every awkward handshake is Masonic.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 06:55 PM
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Originally posted by IsidoreOfSeville
So the point is, his arguments about Christianity and Masons are still valid, as it is one from a theological perspective, not a scientific one.


In so much that they are his personal opinion. His views are so far out there that he embarasses other Catholics.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by AvisNigra

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by AvisNigra
 


Fraternity is not a concern of mine. "charity" (which is just doing what you should when you can) is necessary along with truth.

The knock you mentioned interests me.


No concern for fraternity? Why? Are you a female or a loner? There's no one I'd rather spend time with than my wife, but second to her I do love a nice evening with gentlemen around good food, cigars and a beer or good drink. I enjoy that with the lodge or with the council hall (KofC) and with colleagues who are involved in neither.

And you're right about charity; giving is necessary. It's the core nature of God Himself - "for God so loved that He GAVE....." When we truly learn to give (especially "how" to give) we find happiness, wealth and direction. It's an immutable law. Many who've gotten plugged into charity as a lifestyle have discovered that.


1.I am not like most people. I spent a lot of my youth in the street (keep in mind, I am white), and my speech patterns and general mannerisms are that of a street guy. Because of this, I find it hard to socialize. Not to mention, I have seen a bit of suffering and the jokes groups of men tend to make.....tend to make me want to fight tbh. There are more reasons than that,but fraternity is not important to me. Helping the world is. I am not a female though no.

2. The core nature of God is Love. Giving is involved in love.

Many would like to join the Freemasons or the KofC because they are business men. I genuinely just want to help keep people alive and stay out of prison. If either group is what they claim to be, I should have success in either one. Freemasons appeal to me because they started this country on Christian values. KofC appeals because they work closely with the Church. Decisions decisions....
edit on 30-1-2013 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)









 
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