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Is ATS just a microcosmic of society as a whole?

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posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 07:26 PM
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I was just doing a little thinking about this. I've been seeing a lot of people on ATS get mad at how it looks like it's just one gigantic right wing slide show. I've seen people complain about how all the topics are really negative, and, everyone acts like the sky is falling. I've seen people ridicule those that are legitimately expressing their point of view, just, because it unsettles them.

I think this personally is only natural. It is true that human beings always have been complaining from the beginning of time. Before in the ancient times people always feared that one man was going to take over the world. These people were the anti-christ. You had Alexander the Great, Napolean, and, other people that were allegedly the anti-Christ. Then in modern times you had dictators like Lenin, Stalin, and Hitler, and, all the other Communist dictators that threatened to destroy the Western worlds like the Barbarians when they sacked Europe. Constant euphimisms is made now about how Al-Qaida will destroy the West, and, how they will destroy the civil liberties of people living in Middle Eastern country. Everyone is a threat, you see it everywhere.

These are real things. Perhaps the threats were overblown- but there is truth to them. Hardly anyone was skeptical about Hitler during his rise to power- and before they knew it- in Germany Hitler took over and the Nazis gained ultimate power. Here in the United States of America we see a different threat emerging. It can come in both the form of the public sphere and the private sphere.

We're worried about the expanding grip that the bankers are having on our financial system, and, how they'e having undue influence with governmental affairs, with writing legislation- and how much control they have over the economy. We don't like how our economy is on debt and while it may not be as bad as it has been in the past- where they've had something called debtors prison, we've seen bankers from Goldman Sachs in the highest seats of power, and, we've seen central bankers all around the world meeting at financial summits- to best decide what regulation will be best to prevent a failure of their banks in the long runs. These bankers are all friends, and, they're playing their role in an international order. The G20 meetings we've seen in the past few years are where the biggest 20 nations meet to discuss financial matters and to discuss how to implement these regulations- which they think would be beneficial to the bankers.

The banker problem is only one of the problems that ATS is reacting to. You'll see threads all the time where people dislike how criminal bankers are. The federal reserve has by law a system of fractional reserve banking, where, banks are allowed to create out of nothing the amount of credit that they want based on the excessive reserves at hand. This credit self replicates- and it isn't a sound banking system. More and more people on ATS are getting outraged about this- and they're looking for someone to blame.

That's why you see so many people on ATS blaming Obama for everything. They think that Obama is the cause of all of our problems. Obama is only an agent for them. Like Bush, Clinton and Reagan before him- the Presidents are nothing really but a spokesperson for the federal reserve with regards to economic matters. Presidents may call for stimulus packages themselves, to deal with state matters, or locality issues- but it's really the fed that is in charge behind the scenes, implementing their bills, and, doing what it is they want.

To change the subject- there is the matter of our civil liberties. On this subject- Obama continued Bush's failed policies in eroding our civil liberties. Many people say that Obama is taking away our rights. They would be correct. Obama has called for preventive detention- where the government would apprehend someone before they committed a crime- without the right to due trials (www.wsws.org...). The Supreme Court under Obama has weakened your Miranda rights by saying that you have to speak first before you assert them (which conflates with the view that you hvae the right to remain silent). I believe at one point the Obama administration called in the national guard on a tea party protest (www.aipnews.com...). His department of homeland security has issued memoes declaring Ron Paul supporters, tea party people, and protesters as potential terror threats (open.salon.com...), (www.unitedliberty.org...). It may be different from the Bush regime when Bush's attorney general declared that we had no secure right to habeus corpous (www.sfgate.com.../c/a/2007/01/24/MNGDONO11O1.DTL) despite the fact that the constitution says that we have it unless public safety requires its suspension (in the case of rebellion or insurrection).

People are also mad about the health care bill. The health care reform bill acts as a two pronged attacked by essentially giving a bailout to health care companies by forcing people to have health care with a mandate. But it also is a direct attack on our system of capitalism. It lets the government interfere with the internal practices of health care companies itself- by letting the government have control over the price of health care premiums (www.nytimes.com...), and it would also regulate what benefit ones receives, and, it deals with employee benefits and regulates those as well (www.heritage.org...). The people who are happy with this don't mind the role of government being like Santa Clause, but, most people who care about capitalism, and competition- are unhappy about the bill.

I think I've covered most of the topics. I believe the rest of the negativity on ATS is coming from how mad they are at Obama with how he deals with the international community. I feel that their complaints on Obama's foreign policy may or may not be justified because personally, I think that Obama's doing a fine job with regards to diplomacy with other countries. He's doing a good job for keeping the emperor all the while blacking out how his administration has expanded the war on terror and covert wars to 75 different countries around the world (www.thenation.com...).

A lot of ATS people- I feel are just mad at these things. They're mad at Israel's government for what they did to the Flotilla incident and because they're still mad about the USS liberty. I think that ATS is just a part of the larger segment of society looking at the problems and trying to find answers. They will blame Obama for these problems because he is the spokesman of the United States, and, not look for other problems because they may tend to think that Obama is the cause of all of these problems.

There are a lot of people mat at the government and they're not just mad at Obama. It is true that Obama is to cause for some of these problems. The President isn't just a puppet as many people claim he is. Sure, he may be a puppet, and, he may do things for Goldman Sachs, and all of these companies he has campaign ties with. But, he has initiatives himself- he deserves some of this blame too. So not all of ATS hate on Obama is unjustified- while- you can't go out and blame Obama for everything, it is helpful to understand why people hate him. It's also helpful to have a historical perspective about people's mistrust of the government.

I guess I made this thread because I have been thinking for a while that ATS just represents a larger part of society, and, I think it's helpful to put things in perspective as to why people are upset- and that ATS isn't really just some soap-box that people think it is, and, that people are usually genuinely upset about something.

What are your thoughts? Would you agree/disagree? These are my sentiments.

[edit on 14-6-2010 by Frankidealist35]




posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 07:30 PM
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if you are saying society is....a hole...
after reading your post i gotta agree.

would it be more politically correct to call it
ummm...
a" negative speed bump" maybe?

edit for F$S

[edit on 14-6-2010 by Danbones]



posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 08:33 PM
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reply to post by Frankidealist35
 


Actually I don't think ATS represents society. Most of society isn't in the least bit concerned with the topics covered here. They are to busy with real life; getting laid and getting paid. I also see a preponderance of youth expressing themselves here and very few seniors, And older people are making up a much larger demographic than ever before.

And lately I see an influx of conservatives, using this as a political forum. Even the Moderators seem to be leaning to the Right more than in the past. Ebb and flow.



posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 09:05 PM
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Then your position says there are pedophiles, stalkers & serial killers in the membership...

sheeze,



posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 09:14 PM
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Agree with whaaa, as long as there exist people who absolutely wouldn't go near a site like this, then the most ATS can be a microcosm of is society minus those people.

[edit on 14-6-2010 by NewlyAwakened]



posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 09:16 PM
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I'm rather new around here, but I agree with whaaa, I don't think ATS is a good representation of society. It's possible that most of the things discussed here are also discussed in US, in a lesser degree, but as some threads that I've seen lately pointed out, the views presented in ATS definately does not represent the global society as a whole.

In general, I get a feeling that people that come here are not the regular citizen, for better or for worse.



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 05:10 AM
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Most people outside of message boards normally don't care and mostly believe in MSM. One of my buddies is like that. If it ain't on the MSM, then he doesn't believe it.



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by whaaa
reply to post by Frankidealist35
 


And lately I see an influx of conservatives, using this as a political forum. Even the Moderators seem to be leaning to the Right more than in the past. Ebb and flow.




Since this is a private web site and is operated (I assume) as a typical small business, the site owners do not have the luxury of being limousine liberals.

They have to produce a quality product for which there is a market demand.

This automatically precludes them from being democrats.

People become democrats when they make their money, not by means of the market, but by means of government.

Take one of the largest democratic lobbies, trial lawyers, for instance.

Trial lawyers are ALL DEMOCRATS. There is a clear reason for this. The bigger and more intrusive government regulations are, the more necessary lawyers become. Heavy regulation also provides more opportunities to sue for violations of those regulations. Any trial lawyer that isn't a democrat is either the most honest man in America or a total idiot.

Producers are "conservative" (small government), leeches are "liberal" (intrusive government).

The last thing a small business owner wants is more onerous regulations and a higher tax burden.



[edit on 15-6-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1

Originally posted by whaaa
reply to post by Frankidealist35
 


And lately I see an influx of conservatives, using this as a political forum. Even the Moderators seem to be leaning to the Right more than in the past. Ebb and flow.










Producers are "conservative" (small government), leeches are "liberal" (intrusive government).

The last thing a small business owner wants is more onerous regulations and a higher tax burden.




I hardly need any instructions or lessons from you about being a small business owner. I am a small business owner involved in manufacturing and retail, for over 30 years. I have never been employed for wages and always made my living from the sweat of my own brow and my own efforts.

Also I am a proud liberal [not a limousine liberal]and have no problem paying taxes as long as they go for the betterment of American society and culture. However they seem to me more for the welfare of mega corporations and those that profit in the blood of our precious young people.


Also I have absolutely no problem with the owners of this site running it the best way they see fit. My comment was merely and observation.
You are more than welcome to trash my liberal views if you like, but this is not what this thread is about. Somewhere else perhaps.






[edit on 15-6-2010 by whaaa]



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by mnemeth1

Originally posted by whaaa
reply to post by Frankidealist35
 


And lately I see an influx of conservatives, using this as a political forum. Even the Moderators seem to be leaning to the Right more than in the past. Ebb and flow.










Producers are "conservative" (small government), leeches are "liberal" (intrusive government).

The last thing a small business owner wants is more onerous regulations and a higher tax burden.




I hardly need any instructions or lessons from you about being a small business owner. I am a small business owner involved in manufacturing and retail, for over 30 years. I have never been employed for wages and always made my living from the sweat of my own brow and my own efforts.

Also I am a proud liberal [not a limousine liberal]and have no problem paying taxes as long as they go for the betterment of American society and culture. However they seem to me more for the welfare of mega corporations and those that profit in the blood of our precious young people.


Also I have absolutely no problem with the owners of this site running it the best way they see fit. My comment was merely and observation.
You are more than welcome to trash my liberal views if you like, but this is not what this thread is about. Somewhere else perhaps.






[edit on 15-6-2010 by whaaa]


Lets say the government deems it "for the betterment of American society" that they create a government owned business that competes directly with your business.

For example, public education vs private schools

Post office vs UPS

Fannie/Freddie vs credit unions

etc.. etc.. etc..

Do you think such a proposal would come from conservatives or "liberals"?


Lets say government deems it "for the betterment of American society" that you pay your workers twice as much as you can afford to pay them now.

Do you think such a proposal would come from conservatives or "liberals"?


Lets say government deems it "for the betterment of American society" that you must provide your employees with 4 weeks paid vacation.

Lets say government deems it "for the betterment of American society" that you are required to have your place of business inspected at your expense bi-annually and have your books audited which will come to a total operating cost of 1% of gross revenues for your business.

Lets say government deems it "for the betterment of American society" that workers be allowed to sue you because you made them feel bad.

etc.. etc.. etc..

All of this comes from "liberals"

Being in favor of big government as a small business owner ridiculous. It is self-defeating.

If by "liberal" you mean "libertarian" - where government leaves you alone, then you make sense.


btw, I'm curious as to what business you operate. There are numerous small businesses that profit from government, such as trial lawyers, defense contractors, and other entities that produce products primarily for government consumption.

[edit on 15-6-2010 by mnemeth1]



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