You have to be Christian to worship Satan?

Not sure whether this is a conspiracy, might be reasonable to move this thread to metaphysics board - but I am not to decide that anymore. Mods please take appropriate action.

Anyway, don't you have to believe in Abrahamic pantheon of god, it's celestial and infernal hierarchy, to worship Satan? This topic if of course debatable, but I cannot easily see Hindu or Buddhist worshipping Satan.

If you're Satan worshiper, you would believe in Jesus Christ right? You just don't submit to him, but instead to Satan. So, is worship of Satan merely anti-thesis of Christianity or of Abrahamic religion? How would you see it?

I am not saying that if you are Christian that you would simultanously be a Satanist. But still there's a wee confusion there. Those worshipping Satan are anti-christians? Are both of them just confused by giving a culturally accepted symbol or name for something which they consider to be either universal good or evil? What is good for Jesus idolater is bad for Satanist and vice versa?

There may not be universal good or bad... Good may just be appropriate action in given situation, when evil is the inappropriate action in same situation. I know, someone will soon say that love is universal good - but maybe love is merely the appropriate action in any given situation? It may sometimes appear to be cruel, not all light and warmth.

But back to the topic - if you're a christian (or a satanist), then in which supercategory you consider to belong? Abrahamic relgions? Into general category of believers, but you have just decided to believe in either of them?

Perhaps I am just experiencing an analysis paralysis

It seems to be, that if I hold fixed values about what is right or wrong, I am lot like a broken clock. Displays right time twice a day.

-v

Being a Christian means being a worshiper of the Christ of the Bible not just believing that Christ existed.
I believe that satan exists but that does not make me a satan worshiper.
Satan worshipers believe satan is more powerful then Christ and they do not worship Jesus.
Satan will fall to the God of the Bible and spend eternity in hell. And all those that believe that worshiping anyone but Jesus is acceptable will spend eternity with him and they will have plenty of time (forever) to regret their action.
I hope this help you understand what a Christian is.
And I find it funny that someone like yourself has infinite knowledge and can say that the God of the Bible does not exist. With your kind on knowledge you should be down in the gulf fixing the oil spill.

I'm a Christian.
The only time Satan and I have interaction?
When I need a new dress...

'Da Debil Made me Buy Dat Dress!'



Sorry, I see your point, but sometimes things are just obvious enough without making threads out of them...

Edit to Add:

I like this part!

It seems to be, that if I hold fixed values about what is right or wrong, I am lot like a broken clock. Displays right time twice a day.

peace

[edit on 14-6-2010 by silo13]

Well Satan specifically? Yes they have to be a Christian in denial or something.

You cannot believe in Satan if you reject the Bible, because the two go together like burgers and fries.

Similarly, if someone worshiped Set-Seth they would have to be into Egypt mythology.

I always criticize "Satanists" (Not the Atheist types but the actual Satan worshiping types).

I point out that the mere fact they acknowledge Satan's existence is their indirect admission that they believe in the Bible. This also makes them out to be idiots, because this same book says anyone who does what they are doing will be punished for it severely.

And despite all of that, they keep doing it. So it's more than a offshoot of Christianity, it is a mental deficiency.

Here is an example of the type of mentality going on here. And why I called it mental deficiency. So here is my metaphor.

Lets say I wrote a book, the "Book of Knives."
And in this "Book of Knives" I declare that Knives are Dangerous and can cut you. And that anyone who misuses this can cut themselves and bleed and experience pain.

Now enter the rebellious person, who declares that the "Book of Knives" is fake and full of lies, and to prove it, he cuts himself.

So now we have this guy bleeding, and yet he keeps denying that knives cut and so keeps cutting himself to prove it. Due to this frenzy I have no choice but to call it mental deficiency.

reply to post by v01i0


I think for someone to believe in the existance of "Satan" they would have to follow some Abrahamic faith like Judaism, Islam or Christianity.

Hindus and Buddhists have their own demons and devils.

I don't think anyone has to believe in Divine Jesus to believe in Satan, hence the whole Jewish and Muslim aspect.

Most Satanists are going to define Satan as they see fit. Many that follow Abrahamic faiths already do the same thing. He's what ever they want him to be.

Technically Gnostics also believed in Satan, but to them he's also the Abrahamic G-d.

Realistically people are going to be silly and believe what they want to believe and say what ever they want to say. So they may worship Satan, but Satan as supreme being and think that the Abrahamic G-d is a thought form.

If people are going turn Satan into what ever they want him to be, people might as well become Sith and worship Cthulhu. It makes just as much sense.

I agree with your statement... without believing in christ one cannot believe in satan... however The bible speaks of satan (amongst other things) as an angel of light... thus in that sence luciferianism might be the reversal of roles... Jesus Christ as the bad guy and satan as the good guy... I've got no knowledge of luciferianism so cant really judge on specifics..

When you mention christians automatically being satanists... I've strugled with this concept myself.. why? because of the fact that gods name has been lost in todays christianity.. the tetagrammaton JHWH was written in the original greek and hebrew transcripts over 7000 times... There are numerous bibletexts underlining the importance of knowing and using gods name (JHWH) and yet the great majority of christians when praying or worshipping their god use the anagram of LORD or simply GOD... well we've established the fact that there are numerous gods to be worshipped... Its for this very reason the bible was so clear on the use of gods name..

consider the following analogy: a mother is shopping in a mall with her son... all of a sudden she lost her son... what would happen if she would start shouting SON in that mall? as you might guess there'd be tons of little boys turning their head... The reason we carry a name is for individuality... even so most christians wont give their god the same privilege..

in this light I do believe that lots of christians unknowingly and unwillingly pray to the devil instead of god... or any other god willing to listen for that matter...

I think I get what you are saying. I am not religious, I believe in Jesus as a historical figure, but that doesn't make me Christian. Because I don't believe in religion. Some Christians actually consider that anti Christ, just because I don't think he is God.

Satan and Hell are Christian constructs, therefore to believe in Satan you have to be a type of Christian.

Good and evil are two sides of a coin, so to speak. Even differences in cultures have differing ideas of what is good, or evil. Interesting post.

There are two types of Satanist:

Those who worship an actual Satan,

and those who belong to The Church of Satan a la Anton LaVey. They poke fun at the religious ideas of Christianity in their 'rituals' but do not actually worship a 'satan.' Satan, to them, is Self.

Here are the Nine Satanic Statements from the aforementioned group:

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!
2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!
5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!

And the Eleven Satanic Rules of Earth:

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

[edit on 6/14/2010 by Whisper67]

reply to post by Whisper67


You should make it three or maybe more types.

Humanist Satanists: aka Laveyan Satanist.

Theistic Satanists: ONA, Norwegian cults

Luciferians: New Age Satanists, certain Gnostic sects

Yezidis: See Satan as an intermediary between earth and G-d.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Thank you!!! I stand corrected!

Well done!

reply to post by v01i0



Yes there are many people who believe in God and Christ as the savior yet they chose to worship Satan. However it is not always the case. Many well meaning people unknowingly worship Satan because he comes dressed in sheeps clothing. In the end of this age (that I believe we are in know) the Bible goes into great detial of how the good meaning people are led away from God and Christ by a false religion, hence we have Christmas, Easter and many traditions of men that mock the true God and Christ, most people are not aware that they are following the wrong Christ but the Antichrist, who seeks to be like Christ. Ignorance distroys God's people. What does this mean? It means not reading the Bible and understanding it keeps many from knowing the truth.


[edit on 14-6-2010 by Melissa101]

Some christians have the belief that if you worship anyone besides Jesus, you are, regardless of whether you know it or not, directly and/or indirectly worshipping Satan - because Satan wants you to do anything besides bow down to Jesus.

it is said Zionism is satanisim
Zionist christians?

Originally posted by v01i0
Anyway, don't you have to believe in Abrahamic pantheon of god, it's celestial and infernal hierarchy, to worship Satan? This topic if of course debatable, but I cannot easily see Hindu or Buddhist worshipping Satan.
... So, is worship of Satan merely anti-thesis of Christianity or of Abrahamic religion?

I think I would put it this way.

Since "Satan" is a Biblical name and a Biblical concept, referring to someone who is supposed to be in opposition to the Biblical God, anyone who takes "Satan" as the name of their deity is defining themselves as NOT being part of the community that worships the Biblical God.

It certainly doesn't follow that they actually believe in the Biblical God. It's just a way of saying that "I am not a Christian, and I don't want to be part of the Christian community".

I suspect that this is a very modern thing, and the "Satan-worship" in the Middle Ages only existed in the minds of anxious mediaeval Christians.

reply to post by DISRAELI


The biblical POV is actually intenselly black and white...
The bible acknowledges the existence of other god's or deity's but it says there is only 1 true god. at the beginning there was just 1 and all the other gods came into being after JHWH. Jesus is god's son so in that respect he is as inferior to JHWH as all other gods in existence...

This infact means that UNLESS you worship JHWH you are infact worshipping satan who oposses JHWH.

reply to post by faceoff85

I was thinking more in terms of what people are doing consciously.
A historical answer, rather than a theological one.
The OP was right in a sense, in that people would not be calling themselves Satanists if they were not living in, and reacting against, a mainly Christian environment.

For a brief moment I'll allow myself to believe in the bible for the sake of the example - I try to see it from the religious viewpoint. Then I need to ask myself, if God created everything and his himself and his creation are both perfect, how indeed can Satan to be distinct of him? How his creation can be anything else than the part of him?

Frankly, I don't believe in bible because to me it's nothing more than infant intepretation of human psychology. It has it's uses, and it has it's truths, but it's not the complete message nor complete truth. It takes lot of faith and little critical thinking to believe so.

And yes, all the religions has their own deities, their own versions of Satan; they receive pretty much same characterestics in each case when we do a litte expansion. And in same way, all the supreme gods have pretty much same characteristics. It's gotta be a fancy tale in its origins, adopted by various cultures and interpret in their own ways and for their own purposes.

But yep, as pointed out in few posts above, to be a christian satanic, you have also to believe in christian pantheon.

-v

Worship of Satan does not require Christ.

Worship of Satan is merely worship of ones self.

reply to post by v01i0


Worship of Satan is far older than Christianity. Satanism is not a reaction to Christainity. Satan is based on every trickster god in history. The peoples Champion.

Originally posted by Occy Anonymous

Worship of Satan is far older than Christianity. Satanism is not a reaction to Christainity. Satan is based on every trickster god in history. The peoples Champion.

But surely the name is a reaction to Christianity?
If people were not living in a Christian environment, they would not feel the emotional need to adopt such a provocatively non-Christian title.