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The FACTS ----confirm Obama born in U.S.A-CASE CLOSED******

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posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by evil incarnate
 


Because he has no obligation to release them and we all know the he will just spend the next two years defending things he may have written when he was in his 20s. The thing is, you could have looked into this before he was elected. Why is it his fault you were too lazy to really find out if you should not like him until after he got elected? Maybe if you got up off your tush, you could have found out what was in his college records and convinced a few more people to vote for Grandpa Death and Gotcha McWinkwink.

Yes, as a public elected official, he DOES have an obligation. Again, your bizarre circular argument can go my way. For every time you say "because he doesn't want to have to give anymore credence to this", someone like me can simply say " so if it's not that big of a deal, why seal it, why hide it, why write an EO covering the fact. Also, if the records are sealed, how could I possibly look into this? I am not a member of the press. I am not a member of Congress to perform the vetting process and this is a ridiculous argument to lay at my feet. It's not my fault because again you're drawing ridiculous conclusions and making assumptions that I a) ever voted for him and b) there are strict FERPA rules regarding people's college transcripts and only Obama can give the permission to make them public. Instead, he chose to seal them post haste. Hardly in my realm of change here.

Either explain what it has to do with him being born in the US or unfortunately, it is beside the point.

I already have and you keep avoiding the question. It pertains to what was his status when he received certain scholarships at Occidental College in California and Colombia. If he chose "foreign exchange student" then there you go. Why in the hell would a natural born citizen choose to mark that down if they are not a foreign exchange student? Dual citizenship carriers do not get that perk. We'll never know though because he sealed them, now will we? It doesn't have anything to do with his papers. The only thing I care about is what status did he put on his college entrance papers.

What did you learn about Bush from his college records that helped you watch him get appointed president?

That he was a lazy draft dodger who was a member of Skull and Bones. Oh he had somewhat better grades than Kerry but besides the point, again, you're assuming that I voted for Bush. I did not. Interesting deflection but this also begs the obvious, Bush's birth place was not at question here. The reason why I do bring it up is that Bush produced this information, under much pressure from Congress, and Mr "I sealed my own records" Obama made several statements during that year, when his star began to rise, that Bush should make that information public.

No, no. Do go on. As I said before, this way come election time you will have one baseless complaint after another and thus not convince anyone but maybe you will also lose your voice by then if you spend two years crying about a college paper.

Baseless complaint after another? Why don't you tell that to the dead Afghan and Iraqi civilians? Why don't you say that to the people who continue to have their civil liberties undermined, to the point that even the head of the ACLU and the man who wrote the Pentagon Papers is calling his presidency and epic failure on the Civil Liberties front? Why don't you tell that to the people who have been a victim of illegal wire taps? Why don't you tell that to the people still in Gitmo? Why don't you tell that to the victims of financial loss in this country that Obama's policies have created into the hands of Goldman Sachs? How about the million dollars he received from Goldman Sachs he has yet to give back? What about the guys being tortured under his Justice Department in Islamabad under Blackwater? Or the geneva convention busting predator drones that he is so fond of using? Baseless?! No.

[edit on 17-6-2010 by justinsweatt]




posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by justinsweatt
Yes, as a public elected official, he DOES have an obligation.


No he does not. This country is not a democracy, it is a Republic. By your assumption every president must spend all his/her time proving his eligibility to satisfy everybody and Im sorry, that is just unrealistic. If we held that position we would never get to electing a president becuase you will never satisfy everybody. This is why we have constitutional guidelines where as the secretary of state, the house speaker and on December 15th, congress and the Electoral college verify the presidents eligibility.

You may not be satisfied but he is in no way obligated to satisfy everybody. No president is following the elections.


I am not a member of Congress to perform the vetting process


Exactly.


ridiculous argument


What is ridiculous is this notion that the president is obligated to satisfy everybody over his eligibility. Imagine that? Every president will be stopped as to assuming office by one side of disgruntled voters following the elections. What a wonderful thought.

[edit on 17-6-2010 by Southern Guardian]



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by justinsweatt
Yes, as a public elected official, he DOES have an obligation.


No he does not. This country is not a democracy, it is a Republic. By your assumption every president must spend all his/her time proving his eligibility to satisfy everybody and Im sorry, that is just unrealistic. If we held that position we would never get to electing a president becuase you will never satisfy everybody. This is why we have constitutional guidelines where as the secretary of state, the house speaker and on December 15th, congress and the Electoral college verify the presidents eligibility.

You may not be satisfied but he is in no way obligated to satisfy everybody. No president is following the elections.


I am not a member of Congress to perform the vetting process


Exactly.


ridiculous argument


What is ridiculous is this notion that the president is obligated to satisfy everybody over his eligibility. Imagine that? Every president will be stopped as to assuming office by one side of disgruntled voters following the elections. What a wonderful thought.

[edit on 17-6-2010 by Southern Guardian]


I am well aware of our status as a Republic. I believe that every President up to this point has been vetted properly and constitutionally. Like I said, there were three other Presidents that had dual citizenship. What I am asking for is transparency from a President who ran on a platform of transparency and a Senator who goaded then President Bush that he should and must release he records. I'm just asking for a quid pro quo from him. If he releases his collegiate records, they say "yep" and he didn't get any foreign student aid or status, then case closed and I will happily shut my face.

So yeah. There we go. I'll stop making the same argument here though. I feel like this is just going in circles.



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by evil incarnate

Originally posted by justinsweatt
Here you go: you can read through here regarding all of the cases and see what you think.


Sorry but a link to a right wing blog full of links to half assed articles written by WND about wikipedie censoring things is not proof of moneys spent by the president or court cases. LINK TO THE CASES AND THE PROOF OF THE MONEY!


Look, we all know that the only people looking into this are right-leaning, We are Change blogs, or WND. I'd be happy to point to another source but you can at least go to Westlaw and Lexus Nexus and put in the cases that are there and get the information concerning the cases there. I'd love it if more people asked questions but they're not going to. It'll never get figured out. So, yay, you guys win.

Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone assassin of JFK and our government has never lied to us.

The end.

Rainbows and Gumdrops.

Obama is the greatest man I've ever known I just didn't know it. Thank you for clearing all of that up for me.

High five. You rawk. You're awesome.



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 05:11 PM
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President Soetero has finally decided to end the controversy and has made available his birth certificate for public review. It can be viewed with the link provided below. Now the world can move forward with confidence that there will be no Constitutional crisis.

farm3.static.flickr.com...



posted on Jun, 18 2010 @ 02:21 AM
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reply to post by evil incarnate
 


Alright. I'm glad we could clear that up.

I have seen just as much evidence for a Kenyan Birth Certificate as a Hawaiin. What my main point is, isn't that there's absolutely no way he was born in Hawaii. It's not that I whole-heartedly believe he's from Kenya or any other country. My desire is just that an actual, authentic, long page birth certificate be produced by WHOEVER has possession of it. Until then, I just see it unconstitutional for him to be in office.

I agree, the Hawaiin Certification of Live Birth IS "proof", but anything else can be seen as proof in this debate. There's simply no way of knowing until someone on the inside comes out in public and actually says, document in hand, "This is the actual brith certificate for Barack Obama, from (Hawaii/Kenya)."

I do appreciate how you're debating this. Too many people have blind devotion to either side, simply because they believe they're supposed to, which is a real shame.



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 04:40 AM
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Originally posted by justinsweatt
I was.


Then why were you not looking into it while you could?


Your going under the assumption that I actually voted for Obama.


I never made any such assumption. It is quite clear you are not exactly the type that would vote for him. Not sure how you thought that.


I did not. I did not vote for McCain either. I voted for none of the above. As far as to why did Clinton and McCain not ask for those? I don't know, you'll have to ask their campaign managers.


I am asking you where the logic is in it.



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 04:55 AM
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Originally posted by justinsweatt
Yes, as a public elected official, he DOES have an obligation.


According to whom? Show me something other than you just wanting to see things that would indicate any such thing is true.


Again, your bizarre circular argument can go my way. For every time you say "because he doesn't want to have to give anymore credence to this", someone like me can simply say " so if it's not that big of a deal, why seal it, why hide it, why write an EO covering the fact.


No you cannot. You know as well as I do that it takes no effort at all the keep his college records from your eyes. We also know that there are more than enough people out there that will be wasting time taking him to court on issues like that he used a hooked 7 in one of his essays.

Nothing he wrote in college matters any more except to people looking to waste time with nefarious assumptions which only makes me wonder why they have such a lack of legitimate complaints about his actions in the capacity as president. If he was so bad, why do we need to try so hard to find out?


Also, if the records are sealed, how could I possibly look into this? I am not a member of the press. I am not a member of Congress to perform the vetting process and this is a ridiculous argument to lay at my feet.


Then what are you asking for now? Are asking the president bundle up all his school records and personally send us each a copy?


It's not my fault because again you're drawing ridiculous conclusions and making assumptions that I a) ever voted for him and b) there are strict FERPA rules regarding people's college transcripts and only Obama can give the permission to make them public. Instead, he chose to seal them post haste. Hardly in my realm of change here.


Honestly no clue what you are talking about. It is clear from what I said that I assume you voted for McCain. Call me wrong on that but stop saying nonsense.

Make up your mind.

Did he seal them?

or is he the only one that can give permission to see them?

It cannot be both. Talk about circular logic. If he is the only one who can grant permission, then there is no need to seal them now is there?


I already have and you keep avoiding the question. It pertains to what was his status when he received certain scholarships at Occidental College in California and Colombia. If he chose "foreign exchange student" then there you go.


What would lead you to believe that has happened? What would lead you to believe the college would keep that under wraps for him?


Why in the hell would a natural born citizen choose to mark that down if they are not a foreign exchange student?


Why would a thinking person question the rational of a hypothetical situation this way?


Dual citizenship carriers do not get that perk. We'll never know though because he sealed them, now will we? It doesn't have anything to do with his papers. The only thing I care about is what status did he put on his college entrance papers.


Make up your mind. If he sealed them, then you had access before they were sealed which means it is your fault for failing to look. Yet, you keep whining you had no access anyway. Now you are back to sealed. So, I am back to - you should have asked before he got elected.

That he was a lazy draft dodger who was a member of Skull and Bones. Oh he had somewhat better grades than Kerry but besides the point, again, you're assuming that I voted for Bush.

No, I am assuming he was president and that you were as curious of him as you are our current president. You do not seem too interested in reading what I say as you are full of assumptions of assumptions. Pay attention, it helps. When did you look at his filing status as far as citizenship and scholarship nonsense? How did you get to see them? Why did you have access to his records you complain you did not have to Obamas even before he "sealed" them? Can you answer those questions and stop assuming what I assume?


I did not. Interesting deflection but this also begs the obvious, Bush's birth place was not at question here.


Says who?


The reason why I do bring it up is that Bush produced this information, under much pressure from Congress, and Mr "I sealed my own records" Obama made several statements during that year, when his star began to rise, that Bush should make that information public.


Show me exactly what you request of Obama and the correspoding forms you did recieve of Bush's, thanks.


Baseless complaint after another?


5 fake birth certificates down, dozens of contradictinng pieces of evidence to back up his Kenyan birth, no agreement on Kenyan, Indonesian, or dual citizenship. Those things would all be baseless complaints and come election time will sway none but the best of Glenn Beck fans - a truly small minority indeed.


Why don't you tell that to the dead Afghan and Iraqi civilians?


What was that, now?


Why don't you say that to the people who continue to have their civil liberties undermined, to the point that even the head of the ACLU and the man who wrote the Pentagon Papers is calling his presidency and epic failure on the Civil Liberties front?


Oh, you are upset about the war? Silly me. I thought you were hear talking about college records. Well, if he is killing Iraqui children and violating rights, why are you wasting time with this?


Why don't you tell that to the people who have been a victim of illegal wire taps? Why don't you tell that to the people still in Gitmo? Why don't you tell that to the victims of financial loss in this country that Obama's policies have created into the hands of Goldman Sachs? How about the million dollars he received from Goldman Sachs he has yet to give back? What about the guys being tortured under his Justice Department in Islamabad under Blackwater? Or the geneva convention busting predator drones that he is so fond of using? Baseless?! No.

[edit on 17-6-2010 by justinsweatt]



BLAH BLAH BLAH.

You just do not get it. My whole point is that if you truly believe those are injustices and want something done about them, crying about college records is NEVER GOING TO HELP.

Get it?



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 04:58 AM
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Originally posted by justinsweatt
Look, we all know that the only people looking into this are right-leaning, We are Change blogs, or WND.


If said court cases exist, they are a matter of public record. SHOW ME.


I'd be happy to point to another source but you can at least go to Westlaw and Lexus Nexus and put in the cases that are there and get the information concerning the cases there.


CASE NUMBERS AND MONEY SPENT. SHOW ME!


I'd love it if more people asked questions but they're not going to. It'll never get figured out. So, yay, you guys win.


What? I am simply asking questions. Are you really all for questions or just certain types of questions? What is wrong with my questions?


Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone assassin of JFK and our government has never lied to us.

The end.

Rainbows and Gumdrops.

Obama is the greatest man I've ever known I just didn't know it. Thank you for clearing all of that up for me.

High five. You rawk. You're awesome.


Pout often?



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 05:04 AM
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Originally posted by make the blind see
reply to post by evil incarnate
 


Alright. I'm glad we could clear that up.


I am not sure anything ever really clear around here.


I have seen just as much evidence for a Kenyan Birth Certificate as a Hawaiin.


Mind showing me? I have seen nothing but fake Kenyan Birth Certificates and claims. I have seen a Hawaiian Birth Certificate, yet to be shown as fake, and claims. One weighs more than the other to me but I would love to see what you have seen.


What my main point is, isn't that there's absolutely no way he was born in Hawaii. It's not that I whole-heartedly believe he's from Kenya or any other country. My desire is just that an actual, authentic, long page birth certificate be produced by WHOEVER has possession of it. Until then, I just see it unconstitutional for him to be in office.


Even though Hawaii does not issue a long form anymore? You do realize what type of precident you are setting for all future presidents, right? You are also telling me that I cannot be president and I am not sure you have all the information required to deny me that position.



I agree, the Hawaiin Certification of Live Birth IS "proof", but anything else can be seen as proof in this debate.


Anything? Realy? Then why not go for Mars or Reptillian or something really fun?


There's simply no way of knowing until someone on the inside comes out in public and actually says, document in hand, "This is the actual brith certificate for Barack Obama, from (Hawaii/Kenya)."


That has been done, in Hawaii. That is how we got a statement and photos of it.


I do appreciate how you're debating this. Too many people have blind devotion to either side, simply because they believe they're supposed to, which is a real shame.


Then in that spirit, I would love to see what you have seen. Many take the side of "I am right and will just repeat it." Break that trend and take the side of "I am right and I can convince you I am."



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 03:19 PM
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I have a question. Why can't we impeach him? And since he has not shown any formal birth certificate, can't he be tried for treason?



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by Justice4Jack
I have a question. Why can't we impeach him? And since he has not shown any formal birth certificate, can't he be tried for treason?


I have a question.

Is this a real post?

How can someone even claim he has not shown any formal birth certificate unless they are trying as hard as they can to ignore EVERYTHING there is here?

What do you want to impeach him for?

Why can you not see the birth certificate that I can?



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 05:01 PM
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Perhaps this will clarify.

In a court of law, there is a doctrine called the "Best Evidence" rule. That means if the best evidence of an assertion is available, copies of that document will not be admitted, even if verified as exact duplicates, if there is an objection.

Obama's origiinal birth certificate is available. It is the best evidence and citizens are objecting to certified copies. As citizens, they have that right to view the best evidence.

All people want to know is that our most basic laws are being followed. What is wrong with that?



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by Nite_wing
Perhaps this will clarify.

In a court of law, there is a doctrine called the "Best Evidence" rule. That means if the best evidence of an assertion is available, copies of that document will not be admitted, even if verified as exact duplicates, if there is an objection.

Obama's origiinal birth certificate is available. It is the best evidence and citizens are objecting to certified copies. As citizens, they have that right to view the best evidence.

All people want to know is that our most basic laws are being followed. What is wrong with that?



Big flaw in your logic though.

This-
- is not a copy of anything. It is a birth certificate.



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 06:37 PM
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It is not the original (best) evidence. See you in court.



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by Nite_wing
It is not the original (best) evidence. See you in court.


Yes it is.

You will be waiting.



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by Nite_wing
It is not the original (best) evidence. See you in court.


It is quite clear through these many birther threads that most of you do not know what a birth certificate is or even how to actually identify one. Your argument is a perfect example of someone asking for the wrong thing because they have no idea what they are looking at. You want an original birth certificate, you got it right there in that pic. That is exactly what is recognized by any court in the country as an original birth certificate. This is the sort of thing that makes you all seem a little crazy, you know? I am just saying. Asking for things you have and insisting you still need it just because you do not know what you are asking for says that you are willfully ignorant or have an argument based on lack of information. Id like to know the difference.



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 10:24 PM
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That is merely a Certificate of Live Birth not an original Birth Certificate. Look at the top. You will see what it says. The Certificate of Live Birth doesn't require anything but a person who affirms the person was born. It has no physician's signature and no attestation. It doesn't even need to be applied for until one year after the birth.

This is not an official business record as kept by hospitals. It may be corroborated if there is no objection. The American people are objecting to a non-sworn certificate. Check out he Hawaiian website. A natural mother does not even need swear to the truth of the application to obtain this type of certificate.

It is used for many purposes but in a courtroom, an original birth certificate is better evidence than a Certificate of Live Birth.



[edit on 24-6-2010 by Nite_wing]

[edit on 24-6-2010 by Nite_wing]



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by Nite_wing
That is merely a Certificate of Live Birth not an original Birth Certificate.


Like has been pointed out, you have no idea what you are talking about. I hate to be like that but you simply do not.

The term "birth certificate" can refer to either the original document or a certified copy of or representation of the original record of birth.



a short form is a document that certifies the existence of such certificate, and is given a title such as "Certification of Birth", "Certification of Live Birth", or "Certificate of Birth Registration.


A document with that title IS what a birth certificate is.


Look at the top. You will see what it says.


Show me one example of what you think Obama should be showing you and what it says on the top of that document. If you feel there is another document that will prove it to you more, then you must know exactly what that document looks like. Show me an example.


The Certificate of Live Birth doesn't require anything but a person who affirms the person was born.


That is all a birth certificate is for. It confirms that someone saw your ORIGINAL BIRTH REGISTRATION RECORD.


It has no physician's signature and no attestation.


A birth certificate does not need to have those things. I have posted my NY BC here and many other places. Why is it that without a doctor or hospital on it, no one can debunk mine?


It doesn't even need to be applied for until one year after the birth.


You still have to prove where you were born to get one. Waiting a year does not relax the rules.


This is not an official business record as kept by hospitals.


Hospitals do not keep birth certificates and that is what you are asking for, over and over and over and over again. You can keep looking in a cave for his college records too but chances are pretty good that stuff is not kept in a cave.


It may be corroborated if there is no objection.


It has been. That is what a birth certificate says.


The American people are objecting to a non-sworn certificate.


Now you are just making things up.


Check out he Hawaiian website. A natural mother does not even need swear to the truth of the application to obtain this type of certificate.


Show me. I call lie.



It is used for many purposes but in a courtroom, an original birth certificate is better evidence than a Certificate of Live Birth.


That is an original birth certificate the same way every new driver's license I get is my original driver's license. Is it the first one I ever got? Nope. My license is still an original license.


You made it quite clear you need to educate yourself in order to have this conversation. Crack them books and try again.

[edit on 25-6-2010 by K J Gunderson]



posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 02:03 PM
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Nobody has to prove anything to get a certificate of live birth. If you are so certain, go online to the Hawaiian Clerks office.

§§338-15 which reads
§338-15 Late or altered certificates. A person born in the State may file or amend a certificate after the time prescribed, upon submitting proof as required by rules adopted by the department of health. Certificates registered after the time prescribed for filing by the rules of the department of health shall be registered subject to any evidentiary requirements that the department adopts by rule to substantiate the alleged facts of birth. [L 1949, c 327, §19; RL 1955, §57-18; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-15; am L 1972, c 66, §1(1); am L 1997, c 305, §2]

It took me a long time to find the actual form and I am not going to waste any more time here looking for it again. I have given you the statute to start.

(I suspect you will attack me again rather than investigate but that is just an assumption.)

[edit on 25-6-2010 by Nite_wing]




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