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Is Obama really, really eligible? Confirmed Dual Citizenship.

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posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 07:26 AM
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For nearly two years now, the question of Obama's eligibility has centered on the Hawaiian Birth Certificate and dual citizenship with Indonesia. At every mention of the BC issue, factcheck.org is always mentioned.

Those hung up on the issue of Obama's removal, just always seem to roll their eyes at the mere mention of factcheck. In fact, most start tuning out at the sound “fa” because they know what the rest is going to be.

That is unfortunate because even the most staunch defenders can sometimes go a little too far when they speak and FactCheck.org proves itself to be no exception.


No. He held both U.S. and Kenyan citizenship as a child, but lost his Kenyan citizenship automatically on his 23rd birthday.

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1984. 


Source: www.factcheck.org


Here we are left with a little problem and a possible explanation for Obama's trip where a US Passport would not allow him to Pakistan. However there is debate as to if, the US State Department did or did not have travel restrictions in 1981.

What is interesting is that Obama's staff would have a higher security clearance than he would be eligible to receive (Yankee White) due to both his previous dual citizenship and his travel to unfriendly countries.

But ultimately the question remains, does a person that once held dual citizenship meet the eligibility to be the President of the United States?

[edit on 14-6-2010 by Ahabstar]




posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 11:13 AM
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Excellent post! I have touched on this very issue in other threads. When he traveled to Pakistan he also reportedly traveled to Indonesia and to India. Quite the hat trick back in 1981.

As far as I know there was only a strict travel advisory to Pakistan in 1981 due to the political turmoil and state of martial law back then.

Oddly, he never wrote about this 3 week trip in his memoir. I would think that this was a rather significant trip given the circumstances in that region in 1981.

This rabbit hole is rather deep. Obama's mother worked for the Asian Development Bank during this time period and her work could have landed her in Pakistan at different times. Do a little research on the ADB and the CIA as well as the fact that Tim Geithner's father Peter works for the Ford Foundation in the Asian Theater as director of Micro Finance. There is even an alleged connection between Ann Dunham and Peter Geithner.

Just sayin of course. Obama certainly had connections in 1981. No denying that.

There is more to be learned about Obama just by studying the whereabouts of his mother than by studying Obama himself. His life story is based on her fabrications.



posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 11:26 AM
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Obama's father was a British Citizen at the time of el presidente's birth. This isn't a new issue. It's been the case with 3 other presidents. Chester A Arthur, Andrew Johnson and James Buchanon.

So I think your question is answered. 3 Other presidents technically held dual citizenship at birth. Obama is the 4th.

In 1981 there was no travel ban for US citizens to Pakistan. Check the state dept list and a NY times article in 81. Should be able to google it.

nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com...

Never mind there is the 81 travel advisory.

[edit on 14-6-2010 by DrJay1975]



posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 11:42 AM
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As far as your Yankee WHite security clearance issue, the only published requirements are :

Yankee White is an administrative nickname for a background check given in the United States for personnel working with the President.[1] Obtaining such clearance requires, in part, a Single Scope Background Investigation (SSBI) by the Department of Defense.

Individuals having Yankee White clearances undergo extensive background investigation. Yankee White-cleared personnel are granted access to any information for which they have a need to know, regardless of which organization classified it or at what level.[citation needed] The Yankee White clearance includes requirements for U.S. citizenship and unquestionable loyalty to the United States.

There is speculation that there is a requirement that people with this clearance can not nor have not been married to a person of foreign decsent. And not having traveled to unfriendly countries. But we know the former to be untrue. Many yankee white clearance holders have married those of foreign descent. As far as travel to unfriendly countries prior to obtaining clearance we know this to be untrue as well. Karl Rove traveled to numerous unfriendly countries prior to obtaining yankee white. Rahm Emanuel's father was born in Israel, which knocks the other theory a bit more.

If you pass the single scope BI, are a US citizen and have an unquestionable loyalty to the US then I think thats the extent of it. I'm sure there is room for interrperetation but there is no proof Obama would ahve been ineligible for Yankee white because of his trip to pakistan.



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by Ahabstar
But ultimately the question remains, does a person that once held dual citizenship meet the eligibility to be the President of the United States?

[edit on 14-6-2010 by Ahabstar]


Short answer YES.

In cases of supposed dual citizenship the US doesn't recognize other countries laws for citizenship, only our own.

During WWII, Germany claimed that any US Citizen that was born of German parents (people born in Germany)...and there was a lot...were actually German Citizens and obligated to fight against the US.

As you can imagine the US laughed at the claim and many US CITIZENS who descended from German Immigrants joined the US army and fought against Germany.

We recognize US Citizenship above all other claims and that is the way it should be.

IF we allowed/recognized other countries laws of citizenship as they applied to our own citizens then it would open up a can of worms as many countries have laws that state if your parent was a citizen of country X then you are also.

In cases of someone having dual citizenship we only recognize our own US Citizens...other examples..

Andrew Jackson (1829-1837) is the only president born of two immigrants, both Irish.
Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809), whose mother was born in England,
James Buchanan (1857-1861) and
Chester Arthur (1881-1885), both of whom had Irish fathers,
Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
and Herbert Hoover (1929-1933), whose mothers were born respectively in England and Canada.


[edit on 15-6-2010 by maybereal11]



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by Ahabstar
 


The president did hold dual citizenship as per his Kenyan born father so that so far is something we can all confirm. However the president only held dual citizenship till the age of 21 when it expired because he not declare allegiance to the nation. As to whether being born with dual citizenship disqualifies you as a president, the answer is no. There are a number of reasons pointing to why this does not disqualify the eligibility of the president, or born Americans.

To start, there is no ruling or section in the constitution where it specifically states that you are disqualified as president based on what you are subjected to by foreign laws. The United States constitution does not recognize foreign laws as an equal or above its own when it comes to American born citizens.

The next fact concerns other presidents as evidently Obama is not the only president to gain foreign citizenship from a parent. To note specifically our 21st president Chester A. Arthur was born with dual citizenship we he gained foreign citizenship from his Irish-British subject father. Many birthers have argued that Chester Arthur hid this fact from authorities and the public and therefor his reference does not count however that is simply not true. President Arthur had been in politics for close to 20 years and it was well known who his parents are, where his father was from. The issue at the time concerning his eligibility was on the matter of the possibility that he was born in Canada as his father had stayed there for years, close to his said birth. The issue was never concerning his british subject citizenship at birth and he was accepted as president by congress and the electoral college in 1881.

In addition to Chester Arthur and Barack Obama, presidents Buchanan, Wilson and Hoover were also born of foreign born parents. Note that I am exlcuding some Jefferson who become president during the first years f the constitution as the eligibility laws did not take effect then so it is irrelevant to argue.

Then ofcourse there was the Wong Kim Ark supreme court ruling where in the end Wong was ruled as an american born citizen at birth despite the status of his parents. Birthers argue that this ruling only mean that Wong was a 'citizen', not a 'natural born citizen'. This argument is incorrect as the opposition to Ark winning the case argued that if this ruling was made, 'Wong Kim Ark could become president', this argument was ignored and it was ruled that he was a citizen at birth. Wong Kim Ark was ruled a natural born citizen.

Now if people insist on arguing about disqualification over dual citizenship, please indicate where in the constituion, or what court ruling, otherwise you are wasting your breath.

[edit on 15-6-2010 by Southern Guardian]



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 05:01 AM
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Ah, but the noteworthy examples all lack one difference. None of the others had used their dual citizenship. That is not to say that Obama defiantly has used it, but there is suspicion that it has. And that is the difference. Without access to records, it might not ever be known during his tenure of office.

However if he used it to the advantage of higher education as a foreign student, then it would a matter of contention of was his US Citizenship de facto renounced? Doing so would end natural born status and make him a naturalized citizen.



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 08:39 AM
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zzzzzZZZZZzz *grunt*

HUH what...huh?

Ohhh another birther thread about the same topic over and over and over and over again.

This one has already been discussed, beyond imagination.

He's eligible.

Drop it.



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by Snarf
zzzzzZZZZZzz *grunt*

HUH what...huh?

Ohhh another birther thread about the same topic over and over and over and over again.

This one has already been discussed, beyond imagination.

He's eligible.

Drop it.




2nd line



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by Ahabstar
Ah, but the noteworthy examples all lack one difference. None of the others had used their dual citizenship. That is not to say that Obama defiantly has used it, but there is suspicion that it has. And that is the difference. Without access to records, it might not ever be known during his tenure of office.

However if he used it to the advantage of higher education as a foreign student, then it would a matter of contention of was his US Citizenship de facto renounced? Doing so would end natural born status and make him a naturalized citizen.


(1) I am unclear what constitutes "using your dual citizenship".
(2) Whatever your definition of "used", have you researched the travel records of those examples cited to see if they "used" thier dual citizenship, whatever your defintion might be?
(3) You clearly state that thier is no evidence that President Obama "used" his dual citizenship..and yet you imply by the absense of that evidence that he did?
(4) Please provide any legal or other supporting evidence that somehow using dual citizenship for travel etc. somehow changes its status or gives it a greater legal standing in US courts or invalidates US citizenship laws and the precidence that the USA has always given them...

On second thought...I am not really expecting answers seeing as you have alreadty chosen a course unpremised by logic or evidence.

Hoping to be pleasantly suprised.



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by Ahabstar
Here we are left with a little problem and a possible explanation for Obama's trip where a US Passport would not allow him to Pakistan. However there is debate as to if, the US State Department did or did not have travel restrictions in 1981.


When I saw this thread was started by a mod, I thought 'Finally a birther thread that may have facts and revelations!' but since the sad truth is the only debate is in the minds of people that do not bother to even check, I am left disappointed all over again.


“Before traveling to Pakistan, American Citizens should be aware of the following updated visa requirements: 30 day visas are available at Pakistani airports for tourists only. As these visas are rarely extended beyond the 30 day time per visa. Tourists planning to stay longer should secure visas before coming to Pakistan. Any traveler coming into Pakistan overland from India must repeat must have a valid visa, as 30 day visas are not repeat not issued at the overland border crossing point at Wagha.”

US State Department Travel Advisory for Pakistan in 1981, No. 81-33A



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 01:42 PM
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I like to read these birther threads. I myself lean towards something being fishy. I'm of the opinion that where there is smoke there is usually fire.

But anyways, i find it funny that no matter how much the trusters find this topic idiotic they always seem to take part and it's always the same posters, every time without fail.

If you find this topic beneath you why not ignore the thread all together, why the need to ridicule the people who do not feel that the issue is resolved. No one is asking you to take part and no one is forcing thier opinions on you. Is there another agenda here other than discussing the issue because I rarely see the issue discussed but rather just see pointless comments meant to demean the people who believe this is still an issue.

ETA - I apologize to the people who are actually discussing the topic as this thread has yet to devolve into the usual mud slinging. I guess I had a kneejerk reaction to the "What this again" posts that usually dominate this discussion.

Anyways good points OP there is some very good outside the box thinking on your part.



[edit on 16-6-2010 by Gargamel]



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by maybereal11

Originally posted by Ahabstar
But ultimately the question remains, does a person that once held dual citizenship meet the eligibility to be the President of the United States?

[edit on 14-6-2010 by Ahabstar]


Short answer YES.

In cases of supposed dual citizenship the US doesn't recognize other countries laws for citizenship, only our own.


I was just going to type that, myself. I'm glad I read a bit further and saw some of the excellent responses.

You're right, it doesn't matter that Kenya granted him a level of citizenship for a specific period of time due to his father being born there. What matters is that the United States sees him as a citizen. We aren't obligated to define that status based on Kenyan laws or that of any other nation...thank goodness!!

He's a U.S. citizen.
That is the only thing that matters when it comes to being a U.S. president.

If Kenya decides to once again claim him as a Kenyan citizen it really amounts to not a thing over here in the United States.

- Lee



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by Gargamel
I like to read these birther threads. I myself lean towards something being fishy. I'm of the opinion that where there is smoke there is usually fire.


There is no smoke.

These claims keep dying and being reborn because every time they are definitively proven wrong a new angle on the non-citizen theory comes up.

So far NONE of them have held any water.

If a kid starts a rumor about a student he doesn't like and it spreads like wildfire the fact that it spread or evolved doesn't give the rumor any credence.


But anyways, i find it funny that no matter how much the trusters find this topic idiotic they always seem to take part and it's always the same posters, every time without fail.


Why is that funny?
The motto of this site is "Deny Ignorance".

It's what is supposed to happen here, this isn't FreeRepublic.com or some other site where people endlessly support each others baseless theories without being asked to share any sort of proof to back them up.

The people supporting the non-citizenship claim feel one way, and those that reject it feel another. You can expect to see both groups in any thread on the subject.

Whether to deny ignorance, or simply spread it.

Idiotic claims like those about our democratically elected president that seek to lead to his impeachment need to be exposed as such or outright proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

The burden of proof is on those making the claims.

- Lee



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 02:24 PM
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Other presidents have had duel citizenship as a few other posters have already pointed out. I'm not up to par on Kenya law. Was Obama's citizenship there because his father was from there and that automatically makes Obama a Kenyan? Or is it because he was born there? If it's the former and not the latter then this is a non issue. If it's the latter well then...

If he used that Kenyan citizenship as a way to get financial aid for college does that automatically renounce his American citizenship? Meaning he would have had to put Kenya as his place of birth for Financial aid wouldn't he?

I'm at the point to where I just don't care anymore. He'd still be doing the same lousy job no matter where he was born.



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by Ahabstar
Ah, but the noteworthy examples all lack one difference. None of the others had used their dual citizenship.


There is no evidence as of yet to prove that the president ever used his Kenyan dual birth. If you are referring to the outdated birther claim that he president has used it during his trip to Pakistan the problem with that is a) there was no travel ban for US citizens at the time so the president did not need to use it at the time and b) there is absolutely no evidence to point to the fact he ever used it in anycase.

You cannot reply on assumptions to prove your point. Even in the case that the president ever used his dual citizenship, I still fail to see where this disqualifies him. In a court of law you will have to prove where in any ruling or section of the constitution does it disqualify a presidential candidate over the bases of using his dual citizenship.


That is not to say that Obama defiantly has used it, but there is suspicion that it has.


Well then its a moot isn't it? You cannot argue something you yourself cannot account for.


Without access to records,


Without access to more records people cannot nitpick and twist around more things about this man.


However if he used it to the advantage of higher education as a foreign student, then it would a matter of contention of was his US Citizenship de facto renounced? Doing so would end natural born status and make him a naturalized citizen.


Well where is there a court ruling or a constitutional section that states this? I mean in all seriousness ahabstar if you take this entire eligibility issue seriously you must have more than just assumptions or claims. Solid
evidence and court references are needed.



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by lee anoma
 


Sure there's smoke, can you tell me what Hospital he was born in? Can you tell me what doctor was there to perform the delivery? Can you prove that everyone with a COLB from the state of Hawaii was in fact born in Hawaii? Can you explain the numerous SSN's used by Obama?

Really, it doesn't matter much to me but I find the absolution of the truster side of the argument unfounded. I don't believe that there is one shred of undeniable proof that Obama was born in Hawaii. Everything that has been offered, along with the birther side mind you, has questions that go unanswered.

As for the Deny Ignorance thing, maybe some do it for that reason, but alot of posters just chime in with a put down and fail to add anything. To me that does not deny ignorance.



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by Gargamel
reply to post by lee anoma
 


Sure there's smoke, can you tell me what Hospital he was born in?

Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children



Can you tell me what doctor was there to perform the delivery?


Doctor Rodney T. West



Can you prove that everyone with a COLB from the state of Hawaii was in fact born in Hawaii?


The certificate is required by law to accurately state where they were born. His says Hawaii...thus he was born in Hawaii. that simple...



Can you explain the numerous SSN's used by Obama?


He didn't use multiple SS #'s. A woman associated with Orly Taitz, who has worked as a PI did a property search for anyone with the last name Obama and then pulled SS#'s and Federal ID numbers for anyone associated with those properties...essentially composing a list of around 100+ SS #'s of folks associated with the surname Obama...she left out the whole "Barack" part of the search.

FYI there are two or three Barack Obama's in the USA that are not our POTUS...


Did that do it for you? I suspect not, you were asking questions weren't you?

I made the choice not to include links because I feel you might need the practice researching...these questions have been answered MANY times over for those that care for answers.



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by maybereal11
 


That's great!

From what I have read there has been some flip flopping on what hospital he was born in. Also I have read that you did not, at the time of Obama's birth, require to be born in Hawaii to be able to recieve a COLB. The long form would indicate that you were foreign born and that is the first I have heard on the Doctor that delivered Obama.

I will try to verify those facts. Thanks for the opportunity to brush up on my researching skills.

[edit on 16-6-2010 by Gargamel]



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 04:10 PM
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OK, I could find nothing official that states who the doctor was that delivered Obama only some teacher saying that she is probably the only one left alive who knows this information.

Again, nothing concrete for what hospital he was born in. Many conflicting reports.

As for the SSN numbers. It was determined that the different SSN used were used at residences that Obama was known to live at. The odds that another Obama lived at the same address is pretty astronomical.




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