President Obama: "USA to LEAD the WORLD in the New World Order"

reply to post by Gorman91


The governments who hold a monopoly on space travel is hardly an illustration of free market principles, and until mining companies begin mining other planets, and companies begin building resorts for tourism on other planets, humanity will not have much hope of escaping this planet. They certainly cannot count on the clunky governments you mentioned to make it happen. Keep fooling yourself Gorman, it is, at the very least, amusing me.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07


BUT the system FORCES people to get married and have children. Do you not see that? If you don't do this in many, many countries YOU ARE DEEMED A FAILURE, A LOSER, whatever.

Its taboo to be a homosexual, its taboo to have more than one wife, its taboo to smoke marijuana, its taboo not to go to church, its taboo to have an extra-marrital affair............

Its this retarded YOU MUST DO system, especially in third world countries where there is NO EDUCATION, NO JOBS OR POOR PAYING JOBS, NO INFRASTRUCTURE...NOTHING! The elite own the money supply and most industry therefore the people are zombies.

These are your projections - - based on what you have chosen to focus on.

ANYTHING - can be done Right or Wrong (or become corrupted) ANYTHING.

The world Today is not OK.

I choose to try a new way. Will it be perfect? Of course not - - humans are involved.

Originally posted by Gorman91

A one world government WOULD be part of the free market in a system that still has sovereign states.

Simply put, it's a company financed by Earth's richest nations with its goal being to do crap in space, so that the nations of Earth can focus more on their own affairs.

IE, the same in a World Union.

Thank you - - finally a logical positive projection.

The world today is just not all that great. I don't know why people keep trying to hang on to it.

I am not naive. People will always be people. Some will accept being led - - some will always fight for indpendence.

But I am a progressionist - - and see a one world govening body as the only logical direction.

I don't really see it as disrupting people's way of living - - except in ways that would affect the health of our planet as a whole. I would like to see stronger environmental concerns on a global scale.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


You will never see a company leave earth for mining and colonization until this world is striped bare because it is always cheaper to strip Earth than another world. That will inevitably lead to a dead earth, and the extermination of humanity.

That is the ultimate end point of the free market on Earth.

No system is perfect. None. And sometimes, like this, you have to do something with a government in order to make the free markets desire it. The same was true with nuclear power, enumerable biological and chemical technologies, and so much more. Because once you do something cool, demand shifts to want to do it. But until you have a world government that desires space travel, then the free market will never be interested. Because it is always cheaper to do it on Earth.


All you have to do is look back at colonization of the New World. It was always cheaper to do it in Europe or through Arabic traders from Asia. Not until a government funded project went to the new world and made it profitable did anybody in the free market desire it. Demand immediately shifted to the new world because it was cool. new lands, new resources. people got excited. But with the free markets? They would have sucked Europe dry first.

[edit on 19-6-2010 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Gorman91


Your Marxist view of humanity ignores the reality that it was private enterprise that invented the light bulb, the telephone, and airplanes. Had humanity waited for government to develop air flight, it would exist today, but be completely militarized and not accessible to the public in the same way space flight is not. As soon as private enterprise can find a way to cost effectively mine other planets, or even comets, that is when it will happen, and not until the Earth has been stripped completely bare. It is in governments best interest to encourage private enterprise to develop their own space travel devices, but try to tell that to today's governments. You think too small.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Once again, you are assuming a point of view. Not to mention going to one extreme.

The air plane, light bulb, and telephone are all relatively incredibly simple technologies. Not to mention, they added to profits. That is why the free market loved them and made them.

Right now, there ARE several known ways to go through space. technologies exist today to allow warp ships and intergalactic travel. But free markets will not do it. Because it is damn expensive.

IE, the free market takes care of the majority of inventions and creations. I never said this is incorrect. But there are those items which the government must first do and create in order for the free markets to want to do them. The years of research and tons of money done by the government for nuclear power, for instance. It was freaking cool. Of course the free markets wanted that. But they would never have spent that money on something that may have wound up being totally useless.


There is a wall between a type 1 and type 0 civilization. This wall cannot be crossed by a company because it is expensive.

It is an economic rule. it is cheaper to do something closer than it is to do something far away. Only when you suck something dry is it necessary to move far away, because there is no longer an option to do it close by. On a national level this is not bad. On a planetary level, this means extinction.

So please.

Stop the strawman fallacies.

Stop the foolishness.

Stop the lies.

It is cheaper to suck the earth dry and die than go somewhere else and risk large sums of money to POSSIBLY find something profitable.

Inventions like the airplane are guaranteed profit makers, because they make more money by their very nature.

But remember. The government had to waste the money to discover the right kind of jet engine.

In the free market, that is known as risk. And risks are always more profitable when kept to more likely profit making items and simple inventions.

[edit on 19-6-2010 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07


BUT the system FORCES people to get married and have children. Do you not see that? If you don't do this in many, many countries YOU ARE DEEMED A FAILURE, A LOSER, whatever.

Its taboo to be a homosexual, its taboo to have more than one wife, its taboo to smoke marijuana, its taboo not to go to church, its taboo to have an extra-marrital affair............

Its this retarded YOU MUST DO system, especially in third world countries where there is NO EDUCATION, NO JOBS OR POOR PAYING JOBS, NO INFRASTRUCTURE...NOTHING! The elite own the money supply and most industry therefore the people are zombies.

These are your projections - - based on what you have chosen to focus on.

ANYTHING - can be done Right or Wrong (or become corrupted) ANYTHING.

The world Today is not OK.

I choose to try a new way. Will it be perfect? Of course not - - humans are involved.

If the elite control the money supply and big business, then ultimately the nwo is doomed to fail. These people represent the OLD WORLD ORDER and cannot be trusted for a new world order.

How can you trust these people who have perverted every major national and international institution, created more financial bubbles than I can recall, have started more wars than I can recall, have lied about history, have lied about science, have fought LOSING drug "wars" and much, much more????

Its not "what we need" so much as "who can be trusted". Trust and respect must be earned and does not come cheap. The PTB have screwed up big time in almost every regard so why should ANYONE trust them?

No offense but I would take hitler or stalin as my dictator any day of the week compared to the rockefeller+rothschild COVERT dictatorship. They may have been ruthless killers and all, but at least they were PEOPLE ORIENTED rather than self-oriented.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


eh, that's not saying much. You have to be people oriented to be a dictator. That's why they get into power.

I'd take a covert dictator any day. At least they try to create an illusion that it isn't one.

reply to post by Gorman91


Exactly!

Its easy to get fooled by the status quo and think you are living free when in reality you are a financial slave to the elite. Capitalism can never be a fair system because by its very definition it means "to capitalise"/"take advantage of opportunities". Its the minority taking advantage of the majority.

Communism on the other hand is based on the fairy tale of perfect equality and we all know this is not possible due to the rules of nature..survival of the fittest mentality.

That leaves socialism, the middle ground CENTRIST system which takes the best of the other two systems while dropping the worst. It is the closest thing to perfection AND THAT IS WHY THE PTB ARE TRYING TO DISCREDIT IT AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY!

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by Gorman91

 

The governments who hold a monopoly on space travel is hardly an illustration of free market principles, and until mining companies begin mining other planets, and companies begin building resorts for tourism on other planets, humanity will not have much hope of escaping this planet. They certainly cannot count on the clunky governments you mentioned to make it happen. Keep fooling yourself Gorman, it is, at the very least, amusing me.

Are you not aware 90% of the technology america has today came from nazi germany...yes that "imperialist" social state! Are you also aware that communist russia beat us to the moon and had way better technology than america up till the 60's?

Big government was never the real issue. The issue with america and western europe was and still is that big business has become too powerful and regulations mean squat #. Only mom and pop business gets harrassed because they are easy targets. They are easy targets because they can't contribute financially to the campaign process whereas big business can contribute millions or even billions.

When was the last time the american government won a serious anti-trust case? Not to mention Tony "the polluter" Hayward testifying in congress yesterday and making a mockery of the entire process. Of course he was only defending himself and his company while the government's half-ass investigation was still underway.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


First off - - you've chosen your focus.

And are blind to any thing else.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

That leaves socialism, the middle ground CENTRIST system which takes the best of the other two systems while dropping the worst. It is the closest thing to perfection AND THAT IS WHY THE PTB ARE TRYING TO DISCREDIT IT AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY!

How are TPTB trying to discredit socialism?

The USA is no longer (if we ever were) a Democratic Republic - - it is Corporate Fascism.

I really don't understand those who insist on hanging on to what we have. Who keep trying to hold up the constitution as idealism. The consitution isn't even original. Its a hodge podge of previous governments.

Don't get me wrong. The Constitution has served us well. But its time for progression - - its time to have new vision.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Yea. And the Nazi government worked with the private industry. Telling them where to look into things, choosing the right people.

However, socialism is not the answer. Because socialism is soft dictatorship.

I for one am a product of a man who worked for a 3rd of a century and got wealthy by his own means, no college. I myself, by his labor, have gone forward and gone to college. I've yet to be held back by anything in this capitalist society. I freely learn as much as I need and continue to grow and knowledge and position, and I am still in college.

I have yet to see anything in my own life that tells me capitalism is bad. I know communism is an ideal system, but due to human nature is impossible. I see social democracy, also known as socialism, in Europe. It rarely works. And when it does, it's not pure socialism. It's socialism in motion of becoming capitalism.

What I said is the only place where the free markets are not working. And that is seeking expensive methods that, when done, create more wealth over that expense. For that, government comes in and does it to encourage the free markets.

So I am sorry. I do consider myself a socialist, but I would never govern by socialism. Socialism, like philosophy or religion, is a personal choice, not to be forced upon by others. Governments should be unbiased. People are free to do as they want, even take advantage of others. Only when one lies or coerces is it illegal. believe it or not, but the very essence of humanity is the act of taking advantage of another. The worst of this is rape and robbery. This is illegal and wrong. But government, in its very essence, takes advantage of the working man so that taxes can fund improvements. This taking advantage of is an accepted act that government does in order to provide a better life over time. Every tax, every regulation, everything government does, even the most justified war, is taking advantage of the people.

The only way you can avoid it is to avoid government, which inevitably leads to anarchy and destruction.


Thus the proper amount of government is needed. For this, the proper dosage as historically been proven to be 30% of the distance from total government to no government, on the side of no government.

TEXT-diagram

(TOTAL GOV)------(IDEAL)--(NO GOVERNMENT)

For this, it is right.


The simple fact is this. Most people are uninterested in doing much with their lives than doing their jobs, acting their faiths, finding peace and happiness, and paying their taxes. The later not desired, but still done.

Therefore, it is right for those who seek more power to have it through their labors. Knowledge is the weapon the common people have to ditch out the bad and bring in the good. These good people then lead and run the government.

However, as long as society and civilization exists, people will be unequal, wealth wise and worth wise. No one is allowed to judge or act unfairly based on this. All are equal in terms of their human worth and essence and value. But communally, different people with different skills have different worth and value in different situations. An architect is unimportant to the writer of astrology. A priest is unimportant to the drawer of trees. Thus, that is society.

The fact is this. You are payed for what you do and what you are worth in accordance to how you act and what you deserve.

That is fair. That is the free market.



No of course free markets are not perfect, and there always comes a time to pop in. But government should not cap anything, nor do anything extreme. The only thing the government has to do is make sure income is appropriate for the person's value, and that is done with minimum wage and such other things. Occasionally a business must be cut in two as well to stop corruption and keep competition.

That's just that.

Originally posted by Annee
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

First off - - you've chosen your focus.

And are blind to any thing else.

What "focus"? I have discussed something like 20 topics and how they relate to this supposed "new" world order when they are actually part of the OLD WORLD ORDER!

Maybe it is you that has blinders on? It is one thing to want a world that eventually unites and it is quite another thing to want ONE WORLD ELITE TYRANNY!

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by Annee
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

First off - - you've chosen your focus.

And are blind to any thing else.

What "focus"? I have discussed something like 20 topics and how they relate to this supposed "new" world order when they are actually part of the OLD WORLD ORDER!

Maybe it is you that has blinders on? It is one thing to want a world that eventually unites and it is quite another thing to want ONE WORLD ELITE TYRANNY!

NO - I don't have blinders on - - - because I'm open to possibility.

Something needs to change. People aren't "living" anymore - - they're existing. Some barely.

I do not fear progression. A one world government is the natural and logical progression.

As said before: its not "when" - - but "who & how". Wasting energy fighting the inevitable - - is not going to have affect on how it should/could be. Its just wasting energy.

Originally posted by Gorman91

However, socialism is not the answer. Because socialism is soft dictatorship.

I think we need something completely different. A combination.

I think we need to start with a Socialist base - - but have in place ways for hard working individuals to advance and prosper.

It is my opinion most humans are sheep and will be perfectly happy with basic needs. There is no reason every person on earth can not have the basic needs of: food/shelter - - and purpose. I'm not talking individual 3 bedroom homes.

I think there should be levels of advancement - - that each person must apply for and prove ability and qualification. If individuals want more and are willing to work for it - - they should have that opportunity.

I honestly 100% believe - - many brilliant minds are wasted from lack of opportunity (and culture). Basically - if you are born into a culture that discourages intelligence - individuality - independence - artistic ability - being better then the chief - etc etc etc - - there needs to be opportunity to advance.

I don't think it was wrong for the communist and eastern block countries to pluck athletes out of obscurity - - even though I don't approve of some of their treatment of those young innocent kids.

I want a world that allows its "cream - to rise to the top". AND allows its "drones" a reasonable pleasant everyday life.

I believe in a Peacekeeper "army" - - I suppose some would call it a police state. But we should not have to live in fear of our children playing in their own front yards.

reply to post by Annee


Well as a training modernist architect, I cannot help but love the founding fathers in their monolithic absolute beautifully placed statements. It simply works for government.


Really, it should be a US constitution base. That is fine the way it is. No changes needed. You need to remove all the lame BS that has been added on. There's some stuff still needed of course. But most of it, just drop it.


There's no rebuilding needed. Just removing of the fat off the beautiful woman that was this nation.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Annee

 

Well as a training modernist architect, I cannot help but love the founding fathers in their monolithic absolute beautifully placed statements. It simply works for government.

Really, it should be a US constitution base. That is fine the way it is. No changes needed. You need to remove all the lame BS that has been added on. There's some stuff still needed of course. But most of it, just drop it.

There's no rebuilding needed. Just removing of the fat off the beautiful woman that was this nation.

It works for who (or is it whom)? People like you and me?

Fact is it does not work. The separation between "have's & have not's" - - continues to widen to the point there is no middle ground anymore.

Should we just eliminate the sheeples that are poor - uneducated - and not being productive?

Or me? I was born into poverty - with drive and intelligence. Could have been anything. But illness took its toll. No one could figure it out. The more I fought to get ahead - the more I fell behind. I was +50 - when an unusual birth defect was discovered - - that was the cause of my problems. But too late to correct the situation.

Should I just walk into a vaporizer and eliminate myself as a non-contributing member of society?

Yes - absolutely changes need to be made.

reply to post by Annee


You are not the common person though. Of course people like yourself should be cared about. I fail to see how your condition invalidates the genius of the original constitution plus some much needed amendments.

Meh

I'm done with this NWO stuff.

I don't believe that it will happen.