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Conspiracy of biblical interpretation of purity?

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posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 12:26 PM
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Conspiracy of biblical interpretation of purity?

If Christians truly believe in their Christian beliefs and physiology that Jesus died for all mans sins, sins that starts at the beginning of mans creation. Back to when Adam and eve sinned (mankinds first sin - in gods eyes) only after that, that Adam and Eve covered themselves in shame to hide from gods eyes. Before they sinned they was naked and pure.

So then, since if it is accepted by Christianity that Jesus died for all mans sins, why does not Christianity openly accept and encourage returning to the state of purity in gods eyes? Is it because mankind truly doesnt believe what they preach?
Should human body not be hidden if you believe that Jesus died for your sins? Would not expressions of your belief be shown by your openness in gods eyes and your fellow Christians to be naked.

This is a concept I have pondered for some time and it seems hypocritical (to me) for Christianity to preach one thing but not exercise it fully. Kind of like only using what parts they feel should be emphasized and ignore the rest.
If a Christian is clothed is it to believe that they are sinning in gods eyes?

It is a question on how can the leaders of religion (Christianity) and leaders of governments influenced of the roots of Christianity in one breath pick what they want to emphasis and condone other aspects. Would this not be a repression of truth?

So to return to the state of Christian purity (in my eyes) can never be achieved and or supported as long as the teachings are diluted or skipped.

I can not speak of other religions, if there is a similar parallel.

Firepoker




posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 12:37 PM
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I will try to help make sense of this all:

Jesus DID die for all of mankinds sins - however, you must accept Jesus as who He says He is, He is GOD, God's Only Son, Messiah and Salvation.

Just because He died for all mankind does not mean that everyone is saved - refer to the above.

When Jesus returns to set up His earthly kindom (after the Tribulation and the 7 year reign of the Anti Christ) He will rule for 1,000 years - having bound satan from decieving the masses - and will rule a witness during this time. The catch is that right now is the time to choose sides, not in millenium, this thousand year reign is to judge the nations based on their acceptance or denial of THE TRUTH.

So, sin still exists, man is still impure unless they live in a constant state of repentance and trying to live a Godly life - like that of Jesus.

We must still wear cloths and avoid the sins of the flesh in order to acheive perfection - it is because of the devil and his ability tempt mankind to deny The Holy One of God and therefore fall into sin.

The greatest trick the devil pulled is convincing the world that he doesn't exist.

He does - for now - until after the 1,000 year reign of Jesus. After the thousand year reign of Jesus, He (Jesus) will throw satan, the antichrist and the false prophet and whoever fell for their lies (ie. mark of the beast and the destrucion of Christianity and murder/persecution of God's Holy elect and believer.)

All of this is written in the book of Revelations.
In regards to the purity issue - it is all throughout scripture - the above is just a condensed "in a nut shell" response.

I also must mention the fact that just because Jesus has destroyed all sin (by His death on the Cross) it can never be the way that God originally intended it to be like it was in the garden. People don't realize how much a persons sin effects the world around them. This is why God will make "All things New"

He needs to renevate - and when you renevate a home - it is never the same home as it was when it was first built, you make improvements...

Does this Help?

Let me know,

< B


[edit on 11-6-2004 by Birkhoff]



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 01:27 PM
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Thanks for your reply Birkhoff.

Would not a faithful praticing follower do all one can do before their God. To live a life free of sin and impurities, and be as pure as the human body and soul could possible be, even shedding the clothing shell. God didn't provide to Adam and Eve with clothing, there was no shame, for he created man in his image.

So why not be in this state of purity, especially when you are in a position to come before God in worship, showing God that you are bearing your body and soul, to be as pure as his creation can possibly be to God's original plan.

Would it not be one's belief and ability to try worship their God in the purist form as close as God intended, shedding all manmade influences as Adam and Eve was before they fell from grace?

That is what I am questioning, religion is a personal belief and it is something between you and God. Your life of actions. How true was yourself to God? Has mankind's influencial sins creating a boundry of shame to hinder you from being open to God?

This could be a step to a better understanding on being humbled in the eyes of God?

Firepoker



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 01:49 PM
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I know what you're trying to get at - that if I, a Christian, am living my life according to God's Will, then I should not be ashamed of myself, which I am not when I haven't sinned.

The point is that once a person gives their life over for God, He truly will humble you, humility is KNOWING where you stand with GOD on a personal, spiritual and emotional level.

Like I mentioned before, we cannot go running around naked becuse satan has not been eternally destroyed.

Let me put it this way - a Christian (or anyone for that matter) is not to put the stumbling block of sin before another person - if we do, we are just as guilty of the sin we helped tempt that person to commit.

For example, no self-respecting Christian woman should go parading around in the Nude, this would cause others to fall into lustful sin - whether or not that was her intention - it's a matter of knowing how the human mind works while we are here in the flesh.

It's like if you have nothing nice to say then say nothing at all - it's out of Charity towards other peoples chance(s) for salvation that you would live in this way.

Jesus did not sin - otherwise He could not have saved us from ours - and He was clothed, out of respect towards others and the desire to eliminate any temptations for man to sin.

Whenever someone looks at a painting of a Nude Man or Woman, even though it is a representation of how the light and form interact with one another, the majority of people will at some point imagine a lustful, sexual thought and entertain those thoughts at some point. It may have never been the intention of the artist to plant those thoughts into someones mind - never the less - they need to be cautious so as not to cause others to sin.

I am a photographic artist and I make sure that I adhere to these principles.

If mankind wasn't so perverted - this would be a non issue.

And anyone who denies that mankind is perverted - well, you just can't see what's before your eyes. And you are living in the flesh and not in the spirit.

< B



BTW - I forgot to mention that the scriptures say a "Just man sins up to Seven time per day".

What makes a person Just is the fact that they (having discernment and humility) know when they've sinned and seek repentence and absolution from their sin - this is the work Jesus wrought on the Cross - His blood Atones for sin for those who SEEk atonement.

an interesting side note - The number of man (unjust) is 6 because man was created on the 6th day and man, by nature is impure and imperfect (Adam and Eve's sin). If we multiply the number of man by the amount of sin a Just man sins we get a number of 42 sins per day for the unjust man!

What makes a person Unjust is the fact that they ignore the Holy Spirits warning when they sin (guilt) and avoid SEEking atonement for their sins.

These sins then compound over time (say one week) and the number of sins for that one person equals 294 sins per week!

No wonder we have climate shifts, unrest, disease etc...

We know that the face of the earth changed after Adam and Eve Fell or sinned.

Do the math with the number of people in the world who don't repent for their sin and HOLY COW!!!!

This world is toast if we don't repent..

[edit on 11-6-2004 by Birkhoff]



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 02:37 PM
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Another side note would be 666 is the mark of the beast. The first book in the book named after man is the 6th book Joshua. John 6:66 says From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 02:41 PM
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Right On!

I mentioned the John 6:66 in another thread.
Good call...

< B



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 02:46 PM
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As a student of a highly selective American college and researcher of the power elite, I would like to clarify that the power elite are mostly not Christians.



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 02:46 PM
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I guess Im not pure. Im almost to the point of holding a grudge against so called Christians because many in my community say I lost my soul or dont have one because I am cynical and call how I see it and dont embellish something that doesnt deserve it.

No one is pure, only Jesus is the only one ever who may have led a pure life.

I bet no one here can go a week without breaking the 10Cs.



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 02:52 PM
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Nice reply.

I understand and respect your input. It is expressed clearly.


You said "If mankind wasn't so perverted - this would be a non issue. "
and this is so true, but something clicked in a thought on that comment.
The view of the human body varies greatly in how it is respected or disrespected in the world. Some countries and cultures are more open and not offended of the human body in a non-perverse manner. Yet though some are quickly to codemn it.

In society, sin is promoted in one hand and in the other they say its bad. But why? (A question that needs no direct answer)
Could the sinful perverted human expressions be stopped, due to there was no more shock value, and is has been a shunned avenue by humanity as a whole.

If the sinful, lust can be overcome this day and age, then I see why not the purity expression could not be. It is also sad to read or hear about some people that get easy offended at the simple non-perverted human body whether of flesh and blood or a tasteful representation of art. The Roman time period brought out alot of opened expressionism that was natural. The statue of David, The Thinker, The paintings of Venus and many more that is out there. This is a part of our human history. Yet some people show disrespect and cover or hide this from the masses.

Correct me if I am wrong but was it not during the crusades of Christianity leading into and through out the middle ages that supressed this natural outlook of humanity. (I would wager that in the Vatican's secret vault there is more still repressed)

What is there to understand, there is only to types of human species ( no alien conspiracies ). There is only Male and Female, and together they are able to procreate, and looking at the male and female thru the mirror of historical art work there have been no change to either bodies. So why is there a huge hush-hush over this?

And would not being in a pure state be the best form of global security, nothing to hide.

Firepoker



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 02:54 PM
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That's why I mentioned the verse about the Just man Sinning 7 times a day.

"For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory or God."
- Book of Romans

MSAON - Are you a Mason?
You're correct about who the Ruling Class is though.


< B

Shoot - posted after your post!

Here's the point, plain and simple, things cannot nor will not be the way they were before the fall of mankind. It was through disobedience that we must be clothed.

Now, in heaven, they all wear robes, even Jesus was seen wearing one in His Glorifications - Why? Because as I stated, God must make all things New and therefore the Old shall Pass away.

Sounds to me that you need an exuse to be naked all of the time. There is no need to be so concerned over this issue. Obedience to God and His will for mankind must be adhered to.

I do agree that if we were all naked say at a UN Assembly, there would be less to fight about - or more if people are consumed by the SIZE of things


What you keep forgetting in all of this is that man can and will be tempted by the sins of the flesh until Jesus returns and we change from Corruptable to Incorruptability (Paul spoke of this in the Scriptures)..

Saints and Sinners will all be translated into their spiritual "bodies" and all will be known- There is no need for God to SEE you naked, he couldn't care less.

But to protect mankind from further occasions of sin - we need to be clothed.
It's God's way of protecting us, His children, from temptation.

But these end days prove that satan is working overtime - this is why the temptations of the flesh, mainly sexual lust, are rampant in all cultures.

< B

[edit on 11-6-2004 by Birkhoff]



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 03:20 PM
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jrod, It's not that we don't all sin, but, the fact that we receive righteousness from Jesus. Not in ourselves. Jesus is the only way to be forgiven for your sins.



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 03:24 PM
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AMEN!


< B



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 03:27 PM
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I've heard that so many times. I dont want to be associated with Christians, ive seen how so many disown queer friends, gossip about others, even carry themselves as superiors.

No disrespect to Jesus and I still believe in God. My conscience will not let me belong to a group that treats my as a lost soul at best when I walk through their door.

Been there done that not willing to have Jesus died for my sins spelled out to me again. Judaism fits my personality much better.



[edit on 11-6-2004 by jrod]



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 03:39 PM
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jrod,

you are exactly why Jesus came, He Is the Messiah, Jehova Elohim - our God who Saves!!!

He told the Jewish Hierarchy that they would not follow Him, but that he had sheep of another fold (Gentiles) and that they would hear and believe.

I used to ponder these exact things before my conversion and yes there are those who say they are christian and are not (Revelations). Anyone who holds your sin above your head for their personal gain, power, control & pride is not and can not be labeled "Christian" for it is in opposition to what Jesus came to do for us.

I do not claim to associate with fakers, it's either put up or shut up with GOD.
No Copouts....

It is true that we are to avoid "association" of perpetual sinners - those who don't try and don't think they have to repent. Why hang out with someone who will ultimately bring you down - the Goal of Christians (i am speaking of the true Christian here) is to uplift mankind above the trash that mankind is so fond of rooting in.

I pray that Yehshua will show you His salvation.

< B



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 04:10 PM
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Judaism - Does not believe in Jesus therefore, they are also lost soul.



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 04:11 PM
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It is true that we are to avoid "association" of perpetual sinners - those who don't try and don't think they have to repent. Why hang out with someone who will ultimately bring you down - the Goal of Christians (i am speaking of the true Christian here) is to uplift mankind above the trash that mankind is so fond of rooting in.


So anyone who would not follow the teachings of Christ, would be a let-me-down, even if his following was on par ( relativly speaking ) with that of Christianity?

Deep



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 05:05 PM
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Not a 'let-me-down", we are just instructed to not "entertain" the unbelievers.

Once a witness has said what needs to be said, then we must not stick around if nobody cares to accept the truth. We go on to deliver to those who will.

Arguing is for the subverting of the hearer, it is pointless in God's eyes to "bicker" over what HE says in HIS Word.

If you believe you will recieve, if you don't you wont.

< B



posted on Jun, 13 2004 @ 01:56 PM
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Adam and Eve...

the sin was the knowledge of good and evil ( judgement). It was on that basis that humanity was punished (which is an entirely seperate story).

what people refer to as sins of the flesh are the teachings of fundamentalist puritan philosophers, mainly Paul of the NT. His contempt for women altered society to our detriment. The church in the middle ages burned women wholesale, as well as any books or teachings that referenced the rest of the Teachings jesus left us. The church hijacked the Teachings Jesus left and replaced it with a false doctrine. Thank God people are questioning and seeking Truth again.

Sex is a gift from God, not a curse. The songs of Solomon are testament to the sensuality we were given free reign to explore. Adam and Eve clothed themselves because their eyes were opened to judgement, and Shame replaced the innocence they once enjoyed.
There is no shame in nakedness. A child knows this, inherently. It isnt until adults teach the child to be ashamed that they are.
Jesus asks that we seek the truth and be wary of the Lies that would follow in his footsteps.
Keep right on questioning your beliefs. it is the path to what God actually left us.



posted on Jun, 13 2004 @ 02:30 PM
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Berkhof...where is the word "antichrist" in revelations?
You mean the beast right??

Jesus died for the sins of the entire world, every man and women who ever lived. Meaning that every man and women has a choice to accept Jesus and receive true salvation and forgiveness of sin. Not everyone chooses this, thats why sin is still in the world. We all have a choice.

Nakedness still causes shame, for whatever reason. It even says in the bible not to leave without clothing lest anyone see your shame. So that could be a possible answer as to why we all dont strip off




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