Dear Oil SCREAMongers: REALITY CHECK!

Originally posted by TheRedneck
A good explanation is given in this thread. So far it is the only thing that makes sense when considered with the actions taken and the results obtained. The condensed version is this: The well itself is cracking below the surface, creating leaks alongside the actual pipeline. If we cap the well, the leaks increase and we spill oil into the Gulf while erosion increases the leak. If we uncap the well, we spill oil into the Gulf faster. Either way, the well is going to leak, and there is no known way to stop it. All BP or the Feds or anyone else can do now is try to capture as much as possible... to use, yes, but also to keep it out of the water. And that will only slow the problem, not solve it by any stretch of the imagination.

That is a striking new development!

But before I continue I'll point out that the OILPOCAPLYPSE doomongering has been happening pretty much since the beginning, as well as the venom spitting at anyone who tries to keep facts straight.

Moving on:
ATS had the solution to the Gulf Gusher, but BP decided to cut off the BOP instead!

I contend that that solution is still viable.

Rare Earth Magnet Machine Gun

They have pipe(s) feeding into that "cap" now, and can run those pipes well beyond the 1000' 'rupture', no? 100,000 REM discs / cylinders with specialized cement ready to inject behind the cluster-F stack can very likely stop that gusher.

I'm outraged at their handling of the situation, like everyone else. But I'm also outraged at the fearmongering, hypocrisy and venom spitting going on wide scale on ATS (alone) for months now.

[edit on 13-6-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

"Now that I think about it... when I earlier scanned thru over 13 pages of thread titles here I didn't notice a single thread about hemp."

I recall someone starting one several months ago, well before this incident, but the "Deny Ignorance Gods" quickly shut it down. Go figure.

why did the russians cap a similar well with a nuke
on land....
a nuke....on land

there are no little dutch boy solutions for this
sorry

BPs liability has been capped at 75million dollars
75 million dollars
Any one want to bet me that that's a tax deductable expence?

just an aside
for comparison sakes
here is what you get for 1oo million dollars these days

Dow Jones Newswires | Caterpillar Inc. said the health-care overhaul legislation being considered by the U.S. House of Representatives would increase the company's health-care costs by more than $100 million in the first year alone.

In a letter Thursday to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and House Republican Leader John Boehner of Ohio, Caterpillar urged lawmakers to vote against the plan "because of the substantial cost burdens it would place on our shareholders, employees and retirees."
Caterpillar, the world's largest construction machinery manufacturer by sales, said it's particularly opposed to provisions in the bill that would expand Medicare taxes and mandate insurance coverage. The legislation would require nearly all companies to provide health insurance for their employees or face large fines.

The Peoria-based company said these provisions would increase its insurance costs by at least 20 percent, or more than $100 million, just in the first year of the health-care overhaul program.

really think government is going to save you?

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Ignorance is Futile:

“…Only a tiny handful are about solutions…”
Unfortunately there are not too many oil rig engineers running around when you need them. I am not sure what you are expecting from people. Even if they had good ideas, what’s the point? BP is going to do what it does with little regard for your idea. This just fuels the fire of some folks. I am not an economist but the state of the economy and the bailouts pisses me off to rant stage too.

“The fact is we ALL use oil products, not just the fuel, & virtually none of the screamongers want to talk about that.”
I may be a “screammonger” (one word or two?) because this pisses me off. However, just because BP provides fuel for my car does not mean they have license to destroy the Gulf of Mexico to get me that fuel. I would love for my voice to be heard besides what I have already done: contacted the President, my Congressmen, signed petitions, I don’t buy BP gas, etc. None of this will do any good. Why? Because you and I are in a state of taxation without representation. We pay the taxes and the corporations get the representation.

“The Gulf Gusher isn't the end of the world as you people would have us believe.”
Who is “you people”? For the eleven dudes on the rig who were killed it was. For the countless dead sea critters it was. For folks who may die of illnesses caused by the oil it will be. I suppose if I was a fisherman in the Gulf and just watched my livelihood go down the drain I might think it was. Just because you and your world move on, does not mean everything enjoys the same isolated circumstances.

“Here's another: Grow A Garden!”
I grow a garden. I eat what I hunt. I am conscience about what I buy and how I dispose of things. I drive a car too. My computer is plastic. I am pissed off about the gusher. So tell me, where do I fit in your spectrum?

“Either move out into a cabin in the woods, or shoot yourself…”
So now you are advocating people kill themselves because you do not like the tenor of their opinion stated in their thread? Really?

I gottcha’ IIF. Everybody else is stupid so they should go kill themselves and leave the world to higher order beings as you. It’s amazing how many things you have done here on ATS by your own admission in regards to this situation:

“I just counted 375 threads about the Gulf Gusher…”
“Only five were about ways of boycotting or harming BP to teach them a lesson. One of which is my thread…”
“Only THREE threads in some way asked for solutions, the biggest rally cry thread being started by myself…”
“Additionally, I started a similar thread…”

…yet the oil still spills. It sounds like your ranting is no more effective than the ranting of those you so arrogantly urge to suicide.

This happened on 420
obviously we need to free the hemp
I bet we could shut down a whole bunch of oil wells if we really tried to switch over
maybe save it up for a rainy day

The biggest hypocracy I see comes from the enviro-whackos.

Ask yourself why are oil companies drilling 50 miles offshore in MILE deep water, yet are not drilling in the vast wasteland called ANWR?

Seems like the enviro-whackos believed that drilling 50 miles offshore would protect the coastline in case of an accident. They don't call them whackos for nothing.

[edit on 13-6-2010 by Carseller4]

Originally posted by ABNARTY
Unfortunately there are not too many oil rig engineers running around when you need them. I am not sure what you are expecting from people.

There are more forms of solutions than only just how to fix the well itself.

I even outlined a 6 point list in my 'solutions only' thread:

Originally posted by I.I.B.
Solutions are 6-fold:
1. Ideas to help stop or clean up the crisis.

2. Ways to make BP suffer the consequences so that they and their ilk learn from their mistakes of being sloppy etc. Make them FEAR the public backlash and loss of profits! They have to suffer consequences to have any hope of them and others like them learning their lesson about being halfarse. Children whose parents fail to teach them mistakes, or to recognize consequences are doomed to a lifetime of loserdom.

3. Ways to fix the government that facilitates these sorts of things. Response, etc.

4. Naming names of who should be run out of office etc for their role in all of this (specify solid reasons please).

5. Pinpointing the MISTAKES made so that the 'idiot geniuses' know what not to do. Apparently they need to be told.

6. Things YOU can do to not use as much oil. Policy concepts on par with Global Warming proposals will only lead to debate and will become counter-productive at this juncture.

If people spent as much time on those items, instead of starting huge propaganda threads they might have time to help out in refining actual 'action items'. Just like if people were flagging items of actual substance that might make a difference, instead of all of the huge propaganda threads then people would actually notice items of value instead of just irrational heart wrenching SCREAMING and thrashing. Likewise, less people would be turned off to the entire Gulf Gusher issue if there wasn't so much depressing insanity being spewed across the site every single day.

Should it be up to me to go and start a seperate thread for each of those 6 items, I mean like "Watch" threads? Supposedly I'm the resident "big oil shill", yet I'm one who suggested an outline like that yet nobody else who supposedly wants to make a difference has carried the ball. 375 threads, most of which are just ranting, aren't going to make a difference. A difference would be made with a rational, calculating colaboration. I'd love to see people get watch threads on those talking points going. I'd pitch in. But why am I going to do each one just to have nobody pitch in, especially since every attempt by many memebers to suggest "watch threads" on all of the various aspect of the Gusher have failed miserably.

No one wants a watch thread, even if it were a massive tool with all the important data in one place. Instead the goal is to have at minimum 1 thread per day on the front page. As if everyone with electricity and communications doesn't already know.

Originally posted by ABNARTY
None of this will do any good. Why? Because you and I are in a state of taxation without representation. We pay the taxes and the corporations get the representation.

It's funny you should bring that up. I started a couple new threads over the past week with perhaps the one and only real solution to that problem:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It seems people here don't care too much to discuss solutions to even that problem.

Who is “you people”? For the eleven dudes on the rig who were killed it was. For the countless dead sea critters it was. For folks who may die of illnesses caused by the oil it will be...

If that doesn't apply to you then why respond? The WORLD is a HUGE place, not just a Gulf, not just local communities. This isn't nuclear winter.

“Here's another: Grow A Garden!”
I grow a garden. I eat what I hunt. I am conscience about what I buy and how I dispose of things. I drive a car too. My computer is plastic. I am pissed off about the gusher. So tell me, where do I fit in your spectrum?

How about this: Why are you offended then? If you haven't been screaming bloody (or rather oily) nuclear winter, and aren't a total hypocrite, then you shouldn't be too upset at this juncture.

“Either move out into a cabin in the woods, or shoot yourself…”
So now you are advocating people kill themselves because you do not like the tenor of their opinion stated in their thread? Really?

That's the jist of what environmentalist extremists try to make everyone feel like with their guilt mongering. This issue isn't the first time they've tried to do it either. And it IS a major attitude amongst MANY environmentalist extremists. In one of my other threads semi-recently someone even said everyone needs to die because of this. No, YOU kill YOURSELF, if that's your agenda.

I gottcha’ IIF. Everybody else is stupid so they should go kill themselves and leave the world to higher order beings as you. It’s amazing how many things you have done here on ATS by your own admission in regards to this situation:

Again, thats what we're dealing with with environmentalist extremists (EE). Many of them follow eugenicist related propaganda and believe everyone should be gone that doesn't follow their logic. Not only do they believe that, they actually support policies that enforce it, which is inherently violently.


[edit on 13-6-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Thank you for all the effort that I have seen you put into your threads concerning this oil spill. I hate that most of it is either overlooked by many when they see that you were the OP, or that it is taken out of context. If people would read into what you put into all of your post, they would realize that they are wrong in thinking that you aren't out to downplay this event, when all I see is you pointing out how complicated the situation is.. more so than just saying OMG, get out of your car and walk. You are looking for solutions and trying to get others to look into solutions instead of doom. I respect that, while I don't agree with EVERYTHING you say.

I'm rambling.. nice post, again. S&F.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Yes, it is a striking new revelation, although I think 'development' is the wrong word. BP at least suspected this from the beginning, and that is why all the ideas from the public were ignored and why the things BP tried didn't make a lot of sense. I really can't say I blame them for not saying anything; there would have been a major panic and they probably didn't actually realize their worst fears were real until recently.

They have pipe(s) feeding into that "cap" now, and can run those pipes well beyond the 1000' 'rupture', no? 100,000 REM discs / cylinders with specialized cement ready to inject behind the cluster-F stack can very likely stop that gusher.

• Feeding those tubes don into the pipe would only cause them to continue to do what they do now... capture oil. The pressure of this oil stream is beyond incredible. Shooting capsules into it would be like trying to plug a high-pressure water leak by throwing silly putty at it... the only thing it would do is blow back out of the well.
  
  
• If the well is sealed at the wrong point, i.e. above the damaged section, then all this will do is cause the oil to blow out the side of the damaged casing and erode the seabed around it. That would cause the seabed in that area to erode, increasing the side leak and further weakening the seafloor, in a way that is completely irreparable in any way.
  
  
• If the side leak erodes sufficiently, then no amount of technology would be able to even slow it. It would be like trying to plug a shattered window in a driving rain.
  
  
• A magnetic gun such as you have described would not produce nearly enough momentum to overcome the out-gushing of oil, especially at distances that would be involved. Rare Earth 'magnet guns' are really not all they are cracked up to be. To get real power requires electromagnets,and electromagnets require electricity... which doesn't mix well with seawater.

There is really nothing we can do. Believe you me, that is the last thing I want to say, but it is the truth. At this time, it appears BP is doing the best it can.

Technology really does have limits.

TheRedneck

reply to post by broahes


No, thank you!

It's not easy being an Iconoclast Extremist.

Originally posted by TheRedneck

Feeding those tubes don into the pipe would only cause them to continue to do what they do now... capture oil. The pressure of this oil stream is beyond incredible. Shooting capsules into it would be like trying to plug a high-pressure water leak by throwing silly putty at it... the only thing it would do is blow back out of the well.

Not if the pipe were loaded with magnets and teflon dividers, or at least a blow off cap to keep stuff from pushing its way in during deployment.

...Maybe, unless you're lodging thousands upon thousands of them at a rapid rate. Another thing that occured to me after posting that to you is that I believe there is a 10" drill tube lodged down the well pipe. Is this correct? That vastly increases the odds. The side leak is what, 1000' below? The well pipe is what, 15,000' feet deep? That's a lot of wiggle room. Start down at the mouth. Like barnacles or zebra mussels clogging the mouth of a undersea / underlake drain pipe:

Zebra Mussels can clog large-scale raw water intake pipes such as municipal drinking water plants, and small-scale water intake pipes of private homes and cottages, causing lost pumping ability, obstructed valves, obnoxious smells from decaying mussel flesh, increased corrosion of cast iron pipes, and safety hazards if sprinkler or hydrant systems are clogged and fail to deliver fire fighting water.
www.lakegeorgeassociation.org...

Officials say the new barnacle could compete with other sea creatures for food and has the potential to clog commercial intake or drainage pipes.
news.ufl.edu...

Have to ever played with REM's? I have a pile of them stuck to my fridge. Flat REM's only a few mm's thick are almost impossible to get off without sliding them to the edge. I've challenged some strong dudes with this and even stumped them before.

Make the REM discs obstuse on one side if need be, for less resistance. Meaning, one side shaped like it was sliced off the side of a 19.5" cylinder. If they can make perfect shpere shaped REM's this shouldn't be a problem. Some supplier out there probably already has something in stock that is near specifications. Since they're taking their time they could even have them concave on the other side, instead of flat.

Refuse to give up!

If the well is sealed at the wrong point, i.e. above the damaged section, then all this will do is cause the oil to blow out the side of the damaged casing and erode the seabed around it. That would cause the seabed in that area to erode, increasing the side leak and further weakening the seafloor, in a way that is completely irreparable in any way.

Are we SURE it will collapse the seabed? Or is that a theory? I won't say it's not a possibility, but I'm weary to say much of anything is ever definitive.

Couldn't it just develop roughly the area size of path of least resistance it would need and basically hang tight after it reaches a certain 'optimum? It seems something like this would have naturally happened at some in history and I haven't seen anyone bring up a historical comparison to gauge it by...

I challenge this notion because I see a major risk in doing nothing.

If there's no hope they might as well close down their 'suggestion box'.

A magnetic gun such as you have described would not produce nearly enough momentum to overcome the out-gushing of oil, especially at distances that would be involved. Rare Earth 'magnet guns' are really not all they are cracked up to be. To get real power requires electromagnets,and electromagnets require electricity... which doesn't mix well with seawater.

Here's more on the idea:
Pre/BOP: www.abovetopsecret.com...
Post-BOP: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Basically a large wheel sort of high speed mechanical hopper, with the exit ejection tube lined with super powerful electromagnets to help repel the discs (silver dollars), or cylinders, divided by similar shaped teflon spacers.

I had never heard of such a thing until I thought of it.

There is really nothing we can do.

Not with that attitude

[edit on 14-6-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

You're the only one "SCREAMING".

The rest of us are trying to discuss this with clear, cold assessments of reality, without emotional baggage or the kind of drama you keep bringing to your posts.

This started bad and has only gotten worse and is not going to be fixed anytime soon.

All your deflections about people driving cars, using plastic etc., are irrlevant to the problem and just allow the ignorant to keep ignoring the depth of the difficulties we face, a disservice to them and others that they, and hopefully you, will regret when you are forced to acknowledge reality.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I have to admit I admire your optimism, even if I do not share it.

Not if the pipe were loaded with magnets and teflon dividers, or at least a blow off cap to keep stuff from pushing its way in during deployment.

In that case,the whole piping system would blow back out of the hole. The only reason they could get the pipe in in the first place was that the pipe offered little resistance to the outflow. Plug it with anything and you no longer have that advantage. The pressure will force the oil somewhere... even if it has to blow something out of its way.

And remember that if we decrease the flow coming out of the well itself, the sides of the casing begin leaking more. The OP of that thread I linked you to does an excellent job explaining the phenomenon by likening it to a leaky garden hose with a nozzle... the more you close off the nozzle, the more the hose leaks.

Have to ever played with REM's? I have a pile of them stuck to my fridge. Flat REM's only a few mm's thick are almost impossible to get off without sliding them to the edge. I've challenged some strong dudes with this and even stumped them before.

I have a couple hundred in the shop, in grades from N42 to N52. My supplier is K&J Magnetics.

Make the REM discs obstuse on one side if need be, for less resistance.

The resistance is only decreased if the area around the discs is sufficient for the oil to flow without increasing pressure. It's not like trying to decrease air resistance; there is limited room in the pipe and any decrease in the area of the pipe will have a similar resistance increase.

Are we SURE it will collapse the seabed? Or is that a theory? I won't say it's not a possibility, but I'm weary to say much of anything is ever definitive.

Couldn't it just develop roughly the area of least resistance it would need and basically hang tight after it reaches a certain 'optimum?

Obviously it is just a theory, but it is one based on sound science. Any time a liquid flows, it erodes the ground it flows through; we see this every day in riverbeds and floodplains. There is no reason to expect that the seafloor around the casing would act any differently.

It will at some point at least slow, since the amount of erosion is a function of pressure and flow rate. But by that time, that's a pretty big leak, and remember that with a seafloor leak you have no nice machined casing to seal against... instead you will have a rough, irregular rock with eroded cracks in it. That is much much harder to seal, and by all indications would release more oil than the casing.

Basically a large wheel sort of high speed mechanical hopper, with the exit ejection tube lined with super powerful electromagnets to help repel the discs (silver dollars), or cylinders, divided be similar shaped teflon spacers.

Magnets do not repel silver in any usable amount for such a task. Yes, a few metals are repulsed by magnets, but that repulsion is on the order of magnitudes less than their attraction to ferrous metals. That is why electromagnets are used instead... they can be turned on for attraction and off to allow the 'bullet' to continue past them.

The unit you are describing would have to operate under a mile of water anyway, and the logistics of designing a unit that would do so, as well as one that would produce enough power, are astronomical.

I understand you don't want to give up; neither do I. You have debated in many threads with me in the past, and you should know that I do not give up easily. Yet, I see no possible way to resolve this well. If we continue to at least minimize the spill by siphoning off as much oil as possible, it is conceivable that at some point in the near future the pressure will have reduce enough to allow an attempt at sealing the seafloor. Sealing the seafloor will indeed stop the problem, but as long as the pressure is so great, it is not possible to install any type of plug against it. It is like trying to shove something in an open firehose to stop the water from a mile away.

I only hope we can minimize the flow enough to not completely destroy the Gulf of Mexico beyond what nature can repair.

TheRedneck

reply to post by apacheman


Oh really?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

In your build up you cited this (emphasis added):

Enough methane dissolves in deep, cold water (about 0.4 percent by molar volume) if that water were to rise, the gas would come out of solution and create a mist whose volume is seven times greater than pure water. The resulting eruption would quickly spread and release the whole ocean basin's worth of natural gas in great clouds. These would inevitably ignite. The amounts of gas would be enormous, and the worldwide fires and explosions would be catastrophic. Even the formation of fullerene compounds, now considered a sure sign of asteroid impacts, is plausible. Land organisms would suffer mass extinction.

Ok, so you say that's not you're assertion but still...

Originally posted by apacheman
Then:

A. Wouldn't that set of assumptions lead one to think there would be a strong possibility of the methane hydrates sublimating out of the floor due to cumulative pressure changes?

B. A runaway sublimation process could begin, leading to

C. A seafloor collapse in the leak zone resulting in:

D. A combination hurricane and tsunami with both wind and water filled with hydrocarbons?

Please tell me I'm wrong and worrying needlessly.

You've been grandstanding across the site about the methane all along. Like you're going to change your position? I haven't seen you budge on anything.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

People should be scared.

This is genuinely scary.

Really weird to have a face emerge from a random stream of gas and oil. Kinda creepy: if I let my imagination run with it I can suppose it a manifestation of the planet looking back at us. ... I wonder if the face could be matched to one of the dead rigworkers?

This exchange better illustrates things:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

You seem to think there's a bench team of microbes just waiting to eat oil.

There isn't.

There IS.

You of all people should know this.

Originally posted by apacheman

How serious is the oxygen depletion problem?

Potentially, this is a very serious problem. At present, oxygen concentrations exceed 2 mg/L but if concentrations drop below that, it would spell problems for any oxygen requiring organisms. ... ...

gulfblog.uga.edu...

She goes on to say that while microbial action is being supercharged by the oil's presence, and the bugs are eating the oil as fast as they can, their eating is depleting the oxygen at a frightening rate. Getting oxygen into the deep water is a very slow process; if the microbes remove the oil but leave the water anoxic and less saline, you've simply traded one bad problem for another bad problem.

And to respond to that:

Bacteria are breaking down the oil's hydrocarbons in a massive, microorganism feeding frenzy that has sent oxygen levels plunging close to what is considered "dead zone" conditions, at which most marine life are smothered for a lack of dissolved oxygen.

Such low-oxygen conditions were noticed farther from the spill site, although Joye said she did not think the process would immediately produce a dead zone, since low nutrient concentrations in the water would limit the rate of the bacterial consumption.
www.nytimes.com...

And this one is important:

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

You seem to think that ...billions of cubic feet of methane in the water is inconsequential.

I'll ask you this again, for the official record, and hopefully you'll respond this time:
Would you prefer 100% crude oil or 100% Natural Gas to be spewing from that damned well??? Which you'd prefer in absolutes is important in gauging all of the grandstanding you've been doing across the site on the methane issue. If you'd prefer 100% crude over NG please do explain.

You have been SCREAMING about the methane, even going off-topic in numerous threads, about how we need to freak out about that, but you still wont answer which is worse.

I wish I had more time to go dig up some more of the stuff I've seen you say.

You're definitely not the worst of them, however. I was probably kind of hard on you at first after seeing everything else people were saying at the same time. And it is cool that you call the congress critters, so you're not a totally hypocrite but still there's not much the masses can actually do about it so scaring the bejesus out of them isn't exactly positive.

People are still acting as if nobody has ever heard about the ordeal and we have to get the word out. Furthermore, people keep saying the MSM is doing a blackout. While I don't have cable TV to see what they're saying I've seen MSM news clips calling the ordeal a "doomsday" and the like.

[edit on 14-6-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

...i think many are over-emotional about this mess because theres nothing we can do about it - absolutely nothing - except ride it out - and - lots of folks dont know how to ride out a crisis without ranting and raving... i think maybe they convince themselves that all their yellin' makes 'em feel better about having no control and, for all i know, maybe it really does (shrug)...

Originally posted by TheRedneck
In that case,the whole piping system would blow back out of the hole. The only reason they could get the pipe in in the first place was that the pipe offered little resistance to the outflow. Plug it with anything and you no longer have that advantage. The pressure will force the oil somewhere... even if it has to blow something out of its way.

They seemed to have gotten that cap on there. (I never did see video of how they pulled that one off. I wasn't confident they could do it.)

And remember that if we decrease the flow coming out of the well itself, the sides of the casing begin leaking more. The OP of that thread I linked you to does an excellent job explaining the phenomenon by likening it to a leaky garden hose with a nozzle... the more you close off the nozzle, the more the hose leaks.

I looked at that thread last night but it was painful to try and make sense of.

So now the leak isn't certain ruptured fittings, from the massively 30,000 horse power reverse pressure operation, but now the entire pipes length of fittings are ruptured? I doubt you're going quite that far, but overall that's kinda the feeling still. In any case that scenario seems implausible. Basically all of those fittings would have had to at once because once enough path of least resistance free up then things would 'chill'.

I have a couple hundred in the shop, in grades from N42 to N52. My supplier is K&J Magnetics.

Good times. Sounds like a cool shop. Mine is filled with electronics, with a huge urban garden outside. There are advantages to being the last employee some place, in this economy.

The resistance is only decreased if the area around the discs is sufficient for the oil to flow without increasing pressure. It's not like trying to decrease air resistance; there is limited room in the pipe and any decrease in the area of the pipe will have a similar resistance increase.

Well, they did manage to get that "cap" on there. And a pipe a few inches thick wouldn't be like if they were trying to totally cap it all at once. DO they have a release valve on the "cap" where they could let out more pressure while trying things like what we're talking about?

Obviously it is just a theory, but it is one based on sound science. Any time a liquid flows, it erodes the ground it flows through; we see this every day in riverbeds and floodplains. There is no reason to expect that the seafloor around the casing would act any differently.

What is actually down there? Isn't it desolate? It would certainly change the natural state, but would it matter? The shifting would mostly be above the leak, right?

What matters at this point of questioning is how hard is the data (1) on the thing existing and (2) more importantly the data on the nature of this sidewall issue. If it's only 1000' down then what does it matter when life is up above being killed? The odds if it causing the oilfield to truly erupt are what I'm reaching for here.

Magnets do not repel silver in any usable amount for such a task. Yes, a few metals are repulsed by magnets, but that repulsion is on the order of magnitudes less than their attraction to ferrous metals. That is why electromagnets are used instead... they can be turned on for attraction and off to allow the 'bullet' to continue past them.

I only meant that as a rough reference for shape and size. Sorry for not being clear of why I said "silver dollar".

The unit you are describing would have to operate under a mile of water anyway, and the logistics of designing a unit that would do so, as well as one that would produce enough power, are astronomical.

I was hoping there were some way of orchestrating it from a ship.

Yet, I see no possible way to resolve this well. If we continue to at least minimize the spill by siphoning off as much oil as possible, it is conceivable that at some point in the near future the pressure will have reduce enough to allow an attempt at sealing the seafloor.

Try approaching my idea as if it's possible, instead of if it isn't possible.

I once read a little psychology 'exercise' about:
One day a teacher put an 'impossible' math problem on the board, that no one (on earth) had ever been able to solve. The teacher had done it for fun basically. One of the students had missed class, but came in after the bell and wrote the problem down thinking it was the homework. He came in the next class with the problem solved. The teacher was blown away. Everyone who had ever tried to solve it was told it was too hard, and self-defeated themselves. This time he thought it was possible, and solved it.

It's been forever since I read that. Haven't even thought of it for years until this exchange. The less you think of things, the more vague they become. And people scream about subliminal advertising... I think the student was supposed to be someone like Einstein or some other notable mind though. Can't remember, the above was me paraphrasing, but it seems like it was supposed to be a true story.

[edit on 14-6-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Kudos to to the OP for starting those other threads. Give yourself a pat on the back.

I am a consumer.

Just like almost every other human on the planet.

Our societies have evolved from a barter system to a consumer society.

In this world we live in, we can't all grow our own food, sew our own clothes, or live off the grid.

We exchange our labour for money which we use to buy the things that others produce in order for us, and them, to survive in this world we have created.

As consumers, we are not responsible for the way our goods are produced or disposed of. The responsibility lies with the manufacturer.

If it comes to light that a producer/manufacturer causes human suffering in the form of slave labour practices, or harms the environment through their processes, we can only, as consumers. respond after the fact.

We can refuse to buy their product, or call for legislation to stop their harmful practices.

Most of us eat meat.

Are we all guilty when some farm hand decides to torture farm animals that might end up on our plates? NO

We all hope that the animals we eat are raised in a healthy environment and treated humanely, fed properly and not subjected to unnecessary suffering at the time of their slaughter.

Most of us drive cars. We expect manufacturers to be responsible and give us cars that have the least impact on the environment. The fact that these vehicles run on oil is not the consumers fault.

We have become so reliant on oil that there is no ready alternative to it, especially when so many products that make our lives better are derived from oil.

Just because we as a species agreed on this path, does not mean we are all guilty when some multi-national company behaves irresponsibly.

I am not at fault here because I am typing on a computer and drive a car and brush my teeth with a plastic toothbrush.

GET REAL.

This disaster was driven by profit. If you want to blame yourself, go ahead. Just don't lump me in with you.

Regards

I've had a moment of clarity.

It's been building for a while now. I'm typically best known as an Iconoclast Extremist, who is easy to hate. I love to debate, so it typically works out for me.

But I've spent too much time in recent years thinking of solutions. To me a problem in this world is fearmongering, so I attack it in all forms. But during the past few weeks, in part in the debates I've pissed so many off in here in Fragile Earth, is that SOLUTIONS are what really matters. After all, solutions are the ONLY solutions.

From now on I'll be the "Champion of SOLUTIONS". If I'll be hated, it will be because I insist on solutions over griping, not just merely because I'm a damn bastard and love to debate.

Even if solutions aren't STRONG, I'll support you.

In positive news, tonight we have a new solutions thread all on its own:
New Energy Sources Post Oil Spill

After seeing that, I was compelled to start another, in which I further express perhaps the only wide scale solution that might save us all:
Here is the way to an alternative energy economy

[edit on 14-6-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


WOW shoot yourself ? That is way over the top why are you so personally vested in others beliefs?



I personally think it is pretty bad and could have life changing effects on all of us. Should I off myself because of that belief ?

reply to post by Subjective Truth


That idea is towards those who wish to make us want to off ourselves for driving automobiles. Check out my responses in this thread, where I'm actually coming from should make sense.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Fair enough context is important. I respect your kind reply. I read into it wrong I am sorry.