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Dear Oil SCREAMongers: REALITY CHECK!

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posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 03:48 PM
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HYPOCRISY: In the Fragile Earth forum (alone) I just counted 375 threads about the Gulf Gusher. Only a tiny handful are about solutions, while the vast majority are guilt and fear mongering scream fests. And my count was mostly on the easy to spot in the title threads. There are likely more, and there are sure MANY more guilt threads all across the website.

Only 16 threads were one-shot ideas about ways to handle problems related to the Gusher:
www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com...

Only five were about ways of boycotting or harming BP to teach them a lesson. One of which is my thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com...

Only THREE threads in some way asked for solutions, the biggest rally cry thread being started by myself:
www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com...

Only TWO threads rallied for people to actually hands on help in some way:
www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com...

Only ONE thread acknowledged the various forms of oil products we ALL use, and tried to rally for actual conservation of oil related products (other than just GAS): www.abovetopsecret.com...

Additionally, I started a similar thread although it wasn't exactly an advocacy thread:
We can't possibly get off oil, and its products are worse for the environment than crude is.

Furthermore, I didn't notice a single thread title that mentioned the 11 platform workers who died in the initial accident.

The fact is we ALL use oil products, not just the fuel, and virtually none of the screamongers want to talk about that. Instead they want to guilt trip you into suicidal tendencies while mostly not doing a whole lot worthwhile themselves. Constant screaming about people who drive big cars, and absurdly false notions that shedding gasoline will get humans off of oil completely.

Reality check:

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Crude Oil isn't only extracted for its fuel contents... So don't forget to stop buying your kids or yourself candles, plastic toys, stuft animals, tubes of toothpaste, tooth brushes, video games, computers, printers, ink cartridges, LCD monitors (especially!), CD's-DVD's-VHS tapes & players, TV's, color photos, kiddie pools, 'water wings', swimming pool "noodles", bicycle helmets, bikes with paint or any other plastic parts on them (like seats), digital clock radios, beds, Nerf guns, squirt bottles, pretty much anything from a 'gags & gifts' or 'party supply' shop, balloons, Easter 'schwag', Halloween costumes, polyester / nylon clothing & bedding, rollerblades, skateboard wheels, speed boats, waterboards, most surf boards, all boogie boards, life jackets, snow boarding equipment, 'moon boots', snow suits, 'aqua socks', spandex, pens, sunglasses, couches, non-metal watches, most backpacks, most shoes, all camping tents & most camping gear, most sports gear and safety equipment, any food or CANDY packaging that uses foam or plastic, foam dish scrubbers, plastic dishes (any of them), zip lock bags, plastic sandwhich bags, lunch boxes, tupperware / Rubbermade containers, Thermos's, toddler-proof home safety devices, baby bottles, disposable diapers, pacifiers, baby monitors, strollers, Little Tikes cars and 'houses', Power Wheels, easy bake ovens, radio flyer wagons with that shiny red paint, "big wheels", baby oil or baby powder (I've never seen these come in any bottle besides plastic), rattles, fishing tackle, slingshots, CARPET, PAINT, vinyl siding, plastic patio furniture, weed whackers, lawn mowers, toasters, microwaves, blenders, George Foreman Grill's, trendy posters, science fair projects, counter-table top laminates or clearcoats, magazines, Slip'N Slides, headphones, flashlights, board games, trading cards, Lego's, medicine bottles... OR MCDONALDS HAPPY MEALS!!!!!

...or things like using the services at any hospitals, school (desks), laminated book covers or laminated ANYTHING, glossy color ink, don't mail order anything because virtually all shipping boxes contain plastic or foam of some kind, Chucky Cheese, Disney World, airplanes, water parks, movie theaters (movie theater seats, screens & film), lobby against NASA and all future space travel...


Another list of things made from oil:

Ammonia, Anesthetics, Antihistamines, Artificial limbs, Artificial Turf, Antiseptics, Aspirin, Auto Parts, Awnings, Balloons, Ballpoint pens, Bandages, Beach Umbrellas, Boats, Cameras, Candles, Car Battery Cases, Carpets, Caulking, Combs, Cortisones, Cosmetics, Crayons, Credit Cards, Curtains, Deodorants, Detergents, Dice, Disposable Diapers, Dolls, Dyes, Eye Glasses, Electrical Wiring Insulation, Faucet Washers, Fishing Rods, Fishing Line, Fishing Lures, Food Preservatives, Food Packaging, Garden Hose, Glue, Hair Coloring, Hair Curlers, Hand Lotion, Hearing Aids, Heart Valves, Ink, Insect Repellant, Insecticides, Linoleum, Lip Stick, Milk Jugs, Nail Polish, Oil Filters, Panty Hose, Perfume, Petroleum Jelly, Rubber Cement, Rubbing Alcohol, Shampoo, Shaving Cream, Shoes, Toothpaste, Trash Bags, Upholstery, Vitamin Capsules, Water Pipes, Yarn
www.3k88.com...

Meanwhile the fearmongers will have us all believe that this Gulf Gusher is some sort of "Extinction Level Event": an OILPOCALYPSE, which is absolutely false!

This isn't radioactive contamination, with a 10,000 year half-life, we're talking about here.

You want truth?

The synthetic chemicals & plastic products made with oil are literally thousands of times more toxic and longer lasting in the environment than organic crude oil.


Like several individual PAHs, waste crankcase oil has been shown to be mutagenic and teratogenic. The results are mixed, but some immunological, reproductive, fetotoxic, and genotoxic effects have been associated

The concentration of various PAHs is much higher in used oil than in (fresh) lubricating oil. For example, concentrations of dibenzanthracene, 4-methylpyrene, fluoranthene, benzanthracene, benzopyrene, benzoperylene, and benzopyrene, respectively, 36, 49, 253, 720, 1,112, 4,770, and 7,226 times higher in used compared to fresh oil.

As an oil used in a crankcase, motor oil breaks down to give a wide variety of oxygenated and aromatic hydrocarbons. Other organic compounds found in waste oil include toluene, benzene, xylenes, and ethylbenzene. Also present are organic and inorganic compounds of chlorine, sulphur, phosphorus, bromine, nitrogen, and metals such as zinc, magnesium, barium, and lead resulting from oil additives and contamination during use or disposal.

Used engine oil is a contaminant of concern, with large volumes entering aquatic ecosystems through water runoff. The major source of petroleum contamination in urbanized estuaries comes from waste crankcase oil. PAHs, heavy metals, additives and antioxidants, trace levels of chlorinated solvents, and PCBs have been detected in used engine oil. As mentioned above, naphthalene, benzo(a)pyrene, fluorene, and phenanthrene are common PAH components of used motor oil.
www.nature.nps.gov/hazardssafety/toxic/oilused.pdf
www.abovetopsecret.com...

These chemicals drip out into the entire environment EVERYWHERE you find people and their automobiles. I repeat, EVERYWHERE. Over the course of years, far more of this type of product is released into the environment than all of the spills combined.

This especially occurs near coastal regions because that's where most of the population lives.

Did you get all that? 1: The products made with crude are literally thousands of times worse than the crude itself. 2: More burnt used motor oil (alone) is dripped into the environment than all of the oil spills combined, and yes mostly in coastal regions.

Are these facts good news? NO. Is the Gulf Gusher a major ordeal? YES!

FACT: The Gulf Gusher isn't the end of the world as you people would have us believe.

Instead of constantly screaming and bitching why don't you start some threads about how to reduce fuel consumption and limit plastics etc made from oil going to waste? Here's a good starting point for you: BUY MADE IN THE USA ONLY. Here's another: Grow A Garden!

This is the modern world. We will have major spills. Either move out into a cabin in the woods, or shoot yourself because that's about all you yourself can do to literally stop using oil which makes you part of the problem just like everyone else.


[edit on 13-6-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]




posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 03:59 PM
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Thank you.

It needed to be said.

It needs to be read.

It needs to be *understood*.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
 


I will not take my part in BP's and our Govt. along with countless other governments, GREED!!

So greedy that they attempted to do something so dangerous and never done
before!! That is drill a Super well for OIL! A well dug at 30,000 feet.

Now we are facing an unimaginable Global disaster, because evidence points to the fact that the oil leak is leaking into a batholith volcano.

You are welcome to read more and please determine with fact that this is a hoax!! I would welcome that.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Many have come forth to our Gov. with their ideas. They have been ignored!! Ask yourself why? But free your mind from the thoughts of cash and profits, as well as PR. Think outside the box.

Thanks,

Pax



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:16 PM
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Are you done? Are you through with your totally unfocused rage? I hope so. I'm going to choose my words very carefully so hopefully they get through.

The reason this gusher happened is because of a chain of events driven by greed stretching back hundreds of years. This process was inevitable, and our parts in it were our ironclad destiny.

We were raised to believe that our technological society was vastly superior to any dirty natives squatting around a campfire. If you want to spend the rest of your life living in a log cabin in the woods, fine.

Just remember that you will probably be found guilty of trespassing on federal land and sent to prison, where you will have no choice but to use all those icky petroleum products. Just a thought for you.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:17 PM
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"Furthermore, I didn't notice a single thread title that mentioned the 11 platform workers who died in the initial accident."


Thanks for the concentration of info, and I agree, not a whole lot in terms of solutions out there.

As far as the 11 killed, they are mentioned here and there, but usually in connection with the various occult signatures present for this so-called "accident", which coincidentally occurred on Hitler's birthday.

I have to say however, "solutions" from folks on ATS? From what I've been reading, this disaster has possibly challenged the world's best so far, and no success. The deep water situation, the depth of the drilling, other complications, this seems to be cutting edge stuff.

I'm guessing that few people on the planet have the knowledge required to even make intelligent suggestions, although I suppose it's possible someone here on ATS could be an outside-the-box thinker that could come up with something. And then, who would listen?

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to add to the "hopelessness", there's enough of that already, but realistically, I can see why most people are still just processing the magnitude, and trying to figure out what it's all about. And many of the threads I see seem to just want to get the word out, since the media does seem to be less than helpful so far.

I wish this thread luck, maybe some scientists, or other smart people on ATS will have some useful input.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by warpcrafter
Just remember that you will probably be found guilty of trespassing on federal land and sent to prison,


The irony of environmentalism!

Too chez.

Anyways, try taking all of the flak I have for merely setting facts straight about "extinction', 'apocalyplse', "OILGEDDON", etc, and see how you react.


Originally posted by JR MacBeth
I have to say however, "solutions" from folks on ATS? From what I've been reading, this disaster has possibly challenged the world's best so far, and no success. The deep water situation, the depth of the drilling, other complications, this seems to be cutting edge stuff.


The main point is I haven't been seeing much about ways to conserve, instead just screaming about people who drives cars. And largely threads about solutions are typically ignored. If you want to scream, fine, but you had best be at the front of the line when it's time to talk about ways to actually make a difference (besides guilt tripping everyone which isn't an actual solution).

[edit on 13-6-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by paxnatus
reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
 


I will not take my part in BP's and our Govt. along with countless other governments, GREED!!



Ok then don't drive a car, don't catch a taxi, walk, ride a horse or a bike.
Otherwise you are a hypocrite.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 05:13 PM
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reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
 



Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

The main point is I haven't been seeing much about ways to conserve, instead just screaming about people who drives cars. And largely threads about solutions are typically ignored. If you want to scream, fine, but you had best be at the front of the line when it's time to talk about ways to actually make a difference (besides guilt tripping everyone which isn't an actual solution).


If only 10% of what I've read/watched is true, not much is going to make a difference. For every solution I've read or watched, I've found a link that explains why it won't work in this case. We can't offer solutions until we get accurate information. I don't believe in fearmongering or crying OMG OMG!! But this is not good. I have no solutions. If we survive this then maybe we can start coming up with more ways to conserve. I think writing of conservation on a computer that is made from oil products and uses electricity, not to mention the power from your ISP and this site is a bit hypocritical. The answer is not in cutting back on oil, but in exploring and using alternative energy production.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by darkelf
I think writing of conservation on a computer that is made from oil products and uses electricity, not to mention the power from your ISP and this site is a bit hypocritical.


I appreciate your honesty, as that also translates to screaming about everyone elses oil use is hypocritical in the same respect.

In this thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Several people pointed out that hemp products can make a big difference. It's not a total solution, but it really would help in certain facets of what we get from oil as well as deforestation.

It's a rare day I see anyone bring that up, when it should be the front and center issue when it comes to environmentalism.

I have a real hard time respecting any environmentalist who doesn't have that on the top of the list.

Now that I think about it... when I earlier scanned thru over 13 pages of thread titles here I didn't notice a single thread about hemp. Hmm...



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
 


The people using oil products are not the cause oil destroying the earth.

People have been trying to get corporations to implement green tech for years - with no avail.

The problem is not the little guy - it's the greedy CEOs and politicians.

This thread is an off target argument.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 06:27 PM
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This is more then a major ordeal, it is a tragedy for the environment with no end in sight, and a disaster for the economy.

There are tens of thousands that will lose jobs, property values and income due to this ignorant greed displayed by BP. All these coastal cities rely on tourism and fishing, which is going to be effected severely for years to come.

The effect on our economy will be billions of dollars, and lives completely changing, family owned businesses will cease to exist, but I guess they should just shoot themselves.

You would make a great BP spokesperson.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 06:27 PM
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The point of the thread title: Unless you remove yourself from society, or DIE, you will be using oil just like everyone else so ease up.


reply to post by FearNoEvil
 


That's like saying people who support war aren't responsible for it. Or that all of the people who owe $50,000 on the credit cards and also jumped onto the engineered housing loan ordeal by completely lying about their income were totally innocent. Even though the Federal Reserve and their big bank cohorts engineered that scenario, that doesn't let everyone else off the hook for taking part in it. It'd be like a Global Warming alarmist trying to say it's not also their fault when they breathe AIR, eat beef and own a car.

As long as humans use oil these things will happen. See the list of oil spills. This is ongoing, worldwide. Murphy's Law: What can go wrong will go wrong.

And what exactly are "green technologies" when it comes to oil?

Granted, BP and their cohorts were wreckful in their methods, and that is why I champion the drive to run them into the ground. But I propose using truth, not phoney fearmongering hype propaganda.

Like this other gentlemans thread that has been mostly ignored:
BP's extremely long list of violations (in only a few short years)

This is a corporation that helped overthrow the democratic government of Iran in 1953, helping to pave the way to the current ongoing Middle East crisis. There's plenty of truth to bury them with, but instead people resort to falacies, distortions, lies and ignorance which all it does it make ordinary people not want to hear about the crisis anymore, while taking the focus away from the issues that would count.

You want to do something about it, use truth and set the example that if you 'play games' when it comes to oil you will be buried when you screw up.


[edit on 13-6-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 06:29 PM
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And your point is?

Yes. We discuss a great many things on ATS. That's why I love it.
Oil is great, yay. Woot.

Someone has ruined a large part of our country for it, and we don't even know yet where it will end. Not so great.

We are concerned. Enormously.
We have brainstormed together, worried together, tried to comfort one another, and help one another to understand what might lie ahead for us.

Tried together to sort out what might be true from the many lies we've been told.

You said there are 375 threads about the oil gusher that was engineered by BP and is destroying the Gulf coast and maybe more?

Well, BRACE YOURSELF. Because there may be 375 more, or even more than that before this is over.

In fact you just made it 376, but yours addresses none of the above.
Yours should be in RANT.

Which do you think has more merit?

Peace Out.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
 


This is the modern world. We will have major spills. Either move out into a cabin in the woods, or shoot yourself because that's about all you yourself can do to literally stop using oil which makes you part of the problem just like everyone else.

Actually! No! I'll buy what I want and I'll say what I want because I'm free to do so. When one of the major corporations who dictate to us ALL how we live......SCREWS UP! I'll voice my opinion about it any way I choose. You know why? because it is my right as a human being.

As for coming up with solutions, well! only last week I saw a post asking for flags so a letter would be given to James Cameron. I thought that would be the whole Oilmageddonocalypse thing settled, I can only imagine that his letter got stuck in the post.

As for my solution, its simple....Phone James Cameron.....



[edit on 13-6-2010 by strangleholder1]

[edit on 13-6-2010 by strangleholder1]



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
 


I explained how to solve the problem scientifically in this thread www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here it is again:


A specially made blowout preventer needs to be tooled to stop the leak.

A special sleeve will need to be wrapped around the 12" diameter pipe first. The sleeve will need to be able to be crushed by a newly designed blowout preventer which is made in two halves that will swing together later and look and work just like a regular blowout preventer.

Then the two halves of the newly designed blowout preventer will be hinged together around the sleeve which will contain any leaks when the sleave is crushed by the pressure exerted as the newly designed blowout preventer hinges tight around the sleeve and the 12" diameter pipe without crushing the pipe.

Once the two halves of the specially designed blowout preventer are brought together as close as possible, then giant screws will be turned to draw the two halves completely together to become very tight around the 12" diameter pipe.

Once the blowout preventer is successfully secured to the 12" diameter pipe, the valves can then be closed on the blowout preventer and it will shut off the flow of oil and gas from the pipe. Then a pipe can be attached to the other end of the blowout preventer and the oil and gas can be recovered as it normally is.

That is how it will have to be done.

Here are pictures and information about typical blowout preventers.
www.google.com...

Now, a new blowout preventer needs to be tooled in two halves that will hinge together and then be tightened around the pipe with a sleeve to stop the leaks between the pipe and the blowout preventer.

The pressure from the oil and gas escaping the pipe is to much for any other method.

The blowout preventer halves may need to have special flanges that will extend outwards parallel to the ocean floor that can be encased in concrete around the area of the pipe. Concrete may need to be put onto these flanges in order to hold the blowout preventer down some; so it doesn't come loose from the pipe after the valves are closed on the blowout preventer.

Some of the ocean floor material around the 12" pipe will probably have to be removed in order to fit the blow out preventer onto the pipe and have the concrete base poured to help hold the blowout preventer down.



Dominant countries will use oil to stay dominant until there is another source to propel their masses of people from place to place.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 06:30 PM
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IgnoranceIsntBlisss, you are right about the hypocrisy and the many many unrealized uses for oil. It does affect everything we do. We cannot maintain any semblance of our society without it.

However, while you are correct that this is not radioactive contamination, it is indeed dire. As someone who is not an oilman, but who understands the concepts behind the industry, I was completely confused until yesterday, when things began to fall together.

A good explanation is given in this thread. So far it is the only thing that makes sense when considered with the actions taken and the results obtained. The condensed version is this: The well itself is cracking below the surface, creating leaks alongside the actual pipeline. If we cap the well, the leaks increase and we spill oil into the Gulf while erosion increases the leak. If we uncap the well, we spill oil into the Gulf faster. Either way, the well is going to leak, and there is no known way to stop it. All BP or the Feds or anyone else can do now is try to capture as much as possible... to use, yes, but also to keep it out of the water. And that will only slow the problem, not solve it by any stretch of the imagination.

Worse, there are reports that the bedrock, which maintains the reservoirs of oil separate from one another may be cracking as well, allowing the separate reservoirs to form one larger one... a larger one with a hole belching crude from tremendous pressures. This will stop when the pressure inside the reservoir equals the pressure of the water at the leak... not before. And that, my friends, could take a very, very long time and release a very, very large amount of oil.

The oil-contaminated water will make its way into the Gulf Stream, which will whisk the oil-laden water along the entire Eastern seaboard and finally out into the Atlantic toward Britain. If we are lucky, the oil will not make enough difference in the density of the liquid to significantly affect the driving forces behind the Gulf Stream. It will, however, put at risk almost every species of creature living along the Gulf Coast and the Atlantic Coast of the United States... and possibly Canada as well. Will they become extinct? I doubt it, at least in most cases... but will it destroy their numbers? Without a doubt, YES.

Seafood will become a luxury few can afford.

The other aspect is that the pressure beneath the sea floor is being relieved at a much faster pace than normal tectonic movement would permit. When pressure is relieved in one location only, the obvious result is a movement in that direction from the pressures which originally balanced the relieved pressure. That means tectonic activity. I have no idea how this activity will manifest itself; it could create earthquakes or tsunamis (oil-filled tsunamis) from sudden plate movements, volcanic cracks through the crust, a sudden collapse of the Gulf seafloor (which I cannot even fathom the effects of), or something I haven't even thought of yet. Whatever the result, I can predict this: it will not be good.

Someone drilled a well in a bad location; it was bound to happen sooner than later. That well has suffered the worst possible scenario for disaster. This is and will continue to be a record-setting disaster.

Nothing I know of can fix any of the problems we now face. Blame certainly can't.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
 


"Meanwhile the fearmongers will have us all believe that this Gulf Gusher is some sort of "Extinction Level Event": an OILPOCALYPSE, which is absolutely false! "

I wish you were right, but it appears that you are likely wrong.

www.theoildrum.com...

http://(nolink)/2010/06/13/bp-gulf-oil-spill-seafloor-oil-gas-leak-videos-photos/

There appears to be a rupture in the casing at least 1,000 ft below
the sea floor, and the size of the oil reservoir down there is over
2 billion barrels or 80 billion gallons.

This will end up riding the gulf stream current to the EU eventually,
at least they will get to taste some of the fruits of their labors.

If it is not Oilpocalypse it is doing a damn good impersonation.

Good Luck to you all !



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
 


THIS IS TRUE, so does this mean we can ignore them when polluting the planet ecosystem, NO. YES, we use all kinds of products,ok. NOW, i would rather be informed from a person so that those who have the means can do something about it, than NOTHING AT ALL. YOU call these people, pouters, THEY, have no means to help the planet, but are still concerned. COME ON, when in battle and someone is on your side are you really going to care, NO. Just as long as the end means gets done. The only one that is pouting, IS YOU.



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by RussianScientists
 


COULD YOU FREEZE THE PIPE OIL, WATER. You really need to look at other threads on here to see the big picture



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Furthermore, I didn't notice a single thread title that mentioned the 11 platform workers who died in the initial accident.


Look, I agree in large part with most of what you said.

However, none of it exempts BP or the Obama administration of it's culpability or it's responsibility. Nor does it adequately explain how alternative fuel and energy ideas have been systematically suppressed by the oil, energy and auto industries. Neither does it excuse the decades of corporate breeding of and profiteering on a consumer culture that drives our insatiable appetite for petroleum products. Additionally, it's specious to think that the average citizen is in anyway equipped or educated to deal with this epic debacle and to attempt to squash their outrage just because they haven't schlepped to the coast and scooped oil is just absurd.

As for the 11 workers...I'm sorry they died. I'm sorry for their families. But anyone of them could have been a whistle-blower and prevented this tragedy. I'll not cry any alligator tears for them.




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