Why doesn't God intervene? A question to the religious among you..

You seem to question foolishness and childish believes my dear poster.
This god you are speaking of is what keeps your kind imprisoned.
You are questioning a fable yet your question is valid.
How can you truthfully talk about freedom and love if you believe a being has created you to suffer (apparently) without consulting your spirit ?

Even this heaven that they (mankind) are speaking of sounds like a mere hell in comparison to freedom. If only a spark of a child's innocence could be understood as the truth the world would be in better condition.

God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift and then what does he do? I swear, for his own amusement, his own private cosmic gag reel he sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch but don't taste. Taste but don't swallow. And while you're jumping on one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughing his sick #ing ass off. He's a tightass. He's a sadist. He's an absentee-landlord

best description ever

reply to post by crazzeeedave


Give me some rules that limit you in ways that go against your natural instincts.

Every single "rule" put in place has your best interest in mind, and that of those around you.

You want to have sex with everything on two legs? Enjoy the STD's, the broken relationships, children with no father, and the lack of any real sense of love.

You want to get drunk all the time? The Bible says nothing about alcohol being sinful, only your slavery to it. Getting drunk is definitely not in your best interest, and having to get wasted because you can't deal with life is no way to live either.

Or maybe violence... You think it's natural to want to hurt things and fight each other? There is nothin wrong with standing up for yourself or defending those you love. If a person laid a hand on my wife I would knock him into next week, and I would do it in front of the church that I am a youth minister in.

What natural instincts are you so limited in that you feel God is just trying to mess with you?

The greatest commandment is this, love God and love people. I don't see how that goes against what we should try to be like in any way, shape, or form.

I think you have this idea of God in your head where he is this mean old man with all these rules when in reality He is trying to show you what a full life really looks like.

Its an age old question. How can God allow so much suffering?Because that is how we learn. You can't learn and evolve and thrive and become better people if you already have the answers to the test.

reply to post by piedsniper

Originally posted by piedsniper
reply to post by FearNoEvil

 

Read the book of Job in the Old Testament. Job was a righteous man in Gods eyes.

I've been following this thread a little and it's turned out to be a list of lame excuses for the indolence of an invisible man that lives in the sky.

Grow up people ! Why does the invisible man in the sky do nothing when "innocent"children suffer ?

Occams razer = Your god is imaginary !

Good things happen = It is god

Bad things happen = It must be satan or some magical plan of gods' that we big children cannot even dream of comprehending.

This sort of BS is still being taught to children, no wonder our world is so messed up, get a grip !

Sometimes bad things happen and sometimes people do bad things, let's start learning to take responsibility for our actions and recognize the fact that accidents happen for no other reason than probability and misfortune.

My theory of God is as valid as any other theory represented by you or anyone else.

What is your motive for infringing on my freedom of religion?

Would you like me to fall in line with your theory? If so, state your case. Convince me your theory is fact.

Convert me.

God cannot intervene because we humans have disected and diversified God into so many religions that the poor sod just cannot know who they are batting for.

Drop all religions and believe in 'humankind' so we are all classed as one and the same and see each other as just another human rather than a rival army with a rival religion and rival beliefs, then maybe just maybe God would listen / see and intervene.

Originally posted by kiwifoot
Death is a part of life.

Dying is natural.

Children dying is a part of life.

But a baby dying in such a manner, sorry.

Erm, I'm sorry, but what? So from the above, you're basically saying that death is natural and a part of life, unless it is a baby's death- in which case it shouldn't happen?

Nope, don't agree. If death is a part of life, then that life starts surely from when someone is born? Therefore there should be no distinction between a baby dying and anyone else dying.

In any case; many adults die horrific deaths all the time. Where do you stand on that? Or is it only babies you care about?

Sorry if this sounds harsh; not getting at you personally, just trying to understand what it is you're saying.

In answer to the question, though, I don't know why God (if he exists) allows these things to happen. But I for one do not see the death of a baby as somehow 'worse' than any other death.

Just my two penneth

reply to post by kiwifoot


I didn't read every page so I apologize if this has been stated. WE ARE GOD. In the sense that we are made of the same stuff GOD is. Therefore GOD does not intervene because THE ONE has given us the power and ability to do it ourselves. When we pray (or think good thoughts) and someone gets well, it is not GOD directly intervening, but our collective wills tapping the SOURCE ENERGY. As for the baby, THAT SOUL CHOSE to enter that tiny baby. Perhaps the parents or the family needed that experience to move spiritually to a new level. If this world is to change and people to move on spiritually and stop reincarnating, they MUST learn to open their hearts and live from a spirit of LOVE.

You have to admit, the loss of a baby sure hits you emotionally. The baby may have gone through the change called death, but the soul lives on. The only answer is that a lesson had to be taught for someones benefit. Even if it was difficult to see.

Namaste

reply to post by FearNoEvil

You once knew wrong from right from your being not a book. You once understood justice without any laws dictating them.

When wisdom creates a world of perfection it has no purpose other than to magnify wisdom. When creating for the mere purpose of learning from ones mistakes it holds wisdom. Neither things are portrayed in your scriptures. That given with the fact that they are spores of your civilization's history and merely a plagiarism of what is past it saddens me that you ask such questions.

Maybe it's time to convert yourself and not speak of convictions, believe and conversion by others when it is you that all along the line knew exactly what truth lies ahead.

When my words alone aren't enough to break free from your truth maybe you can remind yourself that day that you have first seen evil.

Serious question regarding "free will" which I believe in myself. But here goes God gave us free will to live our lives as we choose with the hopes of following his commandments, ok cool.

So how does "god answering prayers" and "healing the sick because of said prayers" play into free will?

It seems to me that the religious fanatics like to pick and choose where this so called "free will" applies.



[edit on 14-6-2010 by C0le]

Originally posted by myeyeshavseen
How about this; WHERE ARE THE PARENTS OF THESE CHILDREN???????????? I'm a parent and the first rule in raising young children is DONT LET THEM OUT OF YOUR SIGHT, NOT EVEN FOR ONE SECOND!

This isn't something to involve GOD in. People decide to have children and it is up to those 2 people called PARENTS to prevent these kind of things from happening. MOST cases CAN be prevented if people would just pay ATTENTION to their sourroundings. All it takes is 1 second of neglect and your child can be gone.

We cant blame God for human error. Everything bad that happens, we have brought upon ourselves, as a whole, not individually.

It's time to take responsibility for our own actions.

If you want to stop innocent children from dying, start counseling the parents.

Ohh, well said!

I wish there were more people in the world like you; far too often I hear on the news about a child getting hurt and how tragic it is and 'just a freak accident' (like the toddler who got into a car, somehow started it, then got run over by it) - no, it was caused by neglect.

You're so right, people do need to start taking more (or even start taking ) responsibility.

I'd give you a 'round of applause' smiley but I can't see one in the list.

Originally posted by Mykahel
reply to post by crazzeeedave

 

Give me some rules that limit you in ways that go against your natural instincts.

Every single "rule" put in place has your best interest in mind, and that of those around you.

You want to have sex with everything on two legs? Enjoy the STD's, the broken relationships, children with no father, and the lack of any real sense of love.

You want to get drunk all the time? The Bible says nothing about alcohol being sinful, only your slavery to it. Getting drunk is definitely not in your best interest, and having to get wasted because you can't deal with life is no way to live either.

Or maybe violence... You think it's natural to want to hurt things and fight each other? There is nothin wrong with standing up for yourself or defending those you love. If a person laid a hand on my wife I would knock him into next week, and I would do it in front of the church that I am a youth minister in.

What natural instincts are you so limited in that you feel God is just trying to mess with you?

The greatest commandment is this, love God and love people. I don't see how that goes against what we should try to be like in any way, shape, or form.

I think you have this idea of God in your head where he is this mean old man with all these rules when in reality He is trying to show you what a full life really looks like.

great response......

i was thinking along the same lines but in a slightly different angle.

I think we all have our own 'god problems' and we figure out ways to deal with them. I think the human creature has a 'need' for lack of a better word, to feel that it 'knows' certain things. ....so that it feels a sense of balance realness in the world. I should try to come up with a neat term that describes this concept...maybe someone else has.

anyway, this realness, this 'comfort', or 'trust' in the way things 'are' can be as simple as having a daily routine that provides a sense of foundation. It can be going to work every day, coming home and fixing your favorite food and watching your favorite show. To many this is the fulfillment of their need, barring winning the lottery or some other event that throws a wrench in their dependable, predictable and 'safe' life.

others fill this need with God or spirituality, science, dreams and fantasies, adventure....the list is almost endless. The way i see it all these things accomplish to some extent or another the fulfillment of some kind of need for 'fitting into' the world or feeling like the feet are on something stable.

heres a poor example. take someone like my grandpa who fought in ww2 and had drilled into him certain ideas about japanese and germans and other races. You could have an intelligent conversation about lots of things that could be hot button issues for some ppl and he might be very broad minded.....but turn it to japanese or some such thing and this programming kicks in and its without reason or logic....but if you were to take away from him this 'bias' or predjudice, which gives him a sense of 'knowing' something....and took a way a few more....he would feel completely lost in the world.....does that make sense at all? So i just think that all of us have sort of a collection of these things that can sorta make us feel 'alright'. Take one or two away here and there and we can adjust and deal with it......take many away and our world, perhaps our very existence unravels.

this is why ppl resist vastly different paradigm shifts even if they make sense or appeal to their needs.....maybe its a survival mechanism.

Originally posted by kiwifoot
G'day ATS,

This topic has been simmering away in my mind for some time. It really has bothered me. It was initially brought to my attention by this tragic story.

Baby scalded in pipe burst dies

A 10-month-old baby badly burnt when scalding water poured into her cot has died in Bristol Children's Hospital.

Rhianna Hardie suffered 85% burns in the accident at her home in Taunton, in November. She died late on Tuesday.

I actually cried when I heard this story. I literally broke down. At the time my nephew was the same age as this poor baby, so it really hit home.

More recently....

Baby killed by falling lamppost in west London named

A baby boy killed by a falling lamppost in a west London street has been identified as Tommy Hollis, who would have been one year old on Friday.

Police found him outside Chiswick Town Hall on Tuesday. He was taken to hospital by air ambulance but died.

I mean seriously, what the heck. How can there possibly be a God when you see stories like this? The first one, can you imagine the pain and suffering that this baby went through? The agony of the parents.

If there was a God, and he was all powerful like most religions profess him to be.

How could God allow suffering like this to occur?

Why did he let a lamp post fall on a little baby?

Don't tell me about human self determination, about man's will, that is total BS. The usual answer goes "God doesn't cause famines, Mankind causes famines". Yes, and a man put up the lamp post and installed the boiler. However if I were God (and I really loved the World), I'd want to stop poor little babies suffering and dying in freak accidents.

The crux of the matter is this, if there is a God, he let that baby scald to death, rather than intervene.

He let that lamp post fall, just at the split second the child was passing.

No God who does that is worthy of being God.

Yes there are examples of "miracles"....

Newborn baby is catapulted from car at 70mph in motorway horror... and SURVIVES

A six-week-old baby boy has survived being catapulted from a car travelling at 70mph.

Jonathan Samuel was flung out of his father's car after a tyre blew, causing it to spin six times before smashing into the central reservation of the M6 near Wigan.

AND...

However in my eyes this doesn't excuse God for NOT PREVENTING young Rhianna Hardie's suffering, her family's pain and her tragic death.

I am struggling deeply with this, I cannot beleive that there is a God when I see these examples.

Any thoughts ATS?

DISCLAIMER: Please don't let this be interpreted as an anti-religion thread. It's a serious, well intentioned question.

All the best ATS, Kiwi

[edit on 13-6-2010 by kiwifoot]

God does help, who do you think all of us are? Individually we are men/women, but together WE ARE GOD. God is living and ever present. Think of all knowing as "All know". Think of all present as "All are present". Think of all seeing as "All see".

There is no other God but Life, I know not one.

Peace

reply to post by Mykahel


That was a beautiful post....but people on here will rubbish and even attempt to destroy your words! My conclusion is this: atheists and non believers find it hard to give up their sins just as me and you do. But instead of trying to find YHWH they would rather dismiss his words and stay the same.

Short story---ultimately there is no need for God to intervene because nothing bad ever happens to YOU. There is nothing on the face of this planet or any experience you can encounter that will harm your soul. Since your soul (divine energy...a chip off the old block of the universal consciousness) have infinite life experiences and has been around for billions (if not trillions +) years, then what could possible harm it in the +/- 80 years while you incarnate on earth in 3 D form? The worst that can happen is you die...which that isn't bad since that just allows you to go back home. Everything that is conceived as "bad" is but an illusion in the overall evolution of your soul....your true Self... the all knowing part.

So live your life here, experience pain, suffering, love, hate and go home with further knowledge of your adventures here. ALL is good and it's usually the worst painful encounters in our lives here that allow us to grow and gain knowledge. Many times souls incarnate to help YOU gain knowledge and not them gain knowledge because they are already very advanced souls...those souls would be those that don't spend much time here....death of children. Just remember that's an ancient soul inside that little body... their shell is new, but the true "them" is infinitely old.

[edit on 14-6-2010 by ptmckiou]

god didnt let this occur to them babies, it occurred, we have freewill and it messes things up, if god was present how could he watch everyone at the same time.

Originally posted by thegreatestone
god didnt let this occur to them babies, it occurred, we have freewill and it messes things up, if god was present how could he watch everyone at the same time.

God is everyone at the same time. Maybe that's why we are to love one another perhaps and to treat one another as we wish to be treated.

How many cells are in your body that are working to keep you alive?

PEace

reply to post by FearNoEvil

What is your motive for infringing on my freedom of religion?

Can't see where I've done so, but I won't hesitate to do so in order to prevent the religious delusion impinging upon my life.

Would you like me to fall in line with your theory? If so, state your case. Convince me your theory is fact.

I don't have a theory but nevertheless I wouldn't demand anyone else comply with it.

Convert me.

What would you like to be converted into ?

reply to post by C0le

Serious question regarding "free will" which I believe in myself. But here goes God gave us free will to live our lives as we choose with the hopes of following his commandments, ok cool.

If you were designed by a designer, how is it possible for you to act in anyway that would be against the wishes of your designer?

For you to act in away that you were not designed to would imply something outside the design which would be impossible if the designer is omnipresent and omniscient.