Why doesn't God intervene? A question to the religious among you..

That baby was not killed just in case people think it did. This happened twice at the same station and in both cases the both babies were not killed.
God intervienes if the devil interviens of his Sons decide to go astray to corrupt mankind.

God works on a global scale, his prime purpose right now is with Israel, those who are against it are with the devil who want to break God's final promise of the end days to the Jews. If the Jews mess up then God lets their enemies through the safety net.

news.sky.com...

12:01pm UK, Friday October 16, 2009

Huw Borland, Sky News Online

A six-month-old boy has miraculously survived a train slamming into his pram after it rolled off an Australian railway platform.

news.sky.com... 496

1:21pm UK, Wednesday May 26, 2010

Ian Woods, Australia correspondent

A baby in Australia has had a remarkable escape after rolling in his pram off a railway station platform into the path of an oncoming train.

Originally posted by Hellas

Originally posted by Pentothal

Originally posted by Hellas
because that would be against the "free will" he gave mankind.

Free will?

Would that be the free will that says: love and obey me, meaning; do exactly as my earthly representatives say (and interpret writings) from a selection of old texts, edited and collated by many different people, each with their own agenda over a period of hundreds of years.

Or

Spend an eternity in pain, misery, burning, torture and tormented in a place called hell.

You choose.

Yes... free will.

If you wanna live in my House you gotta play by my rules! It's that simple

If you think you can be an "outlaw" you have to pay the price.

So it's your FREE WILL to decide where you want to spend eternity

[edit on 13-6-2010 by Hellas]

So the 'choice' is:

Do as the people who say they are Gods representatives say (the ones who decide what scriptures to teach you from when you are a child)

Or

Suffer unimaginably for eternity.

What a loving caring proposition!

Bare in mind that the information on which you base this decision is and has been controlled, edited and delivered in such a way as to get the desired outcome.

Put the money in the bag or I will blow your head off. The choice is yours. If you give me the money, you will not suffer. It is an armed robbery.

So, God created us to love and serve him?

The trouble is, all we have to go on are some very old texts that actually contradict themselves (and plagiarise a story told many times before in many cultures).

So we are not only presented with this very civilised choice of 'serve or be tortured for infinity', but we are informed about this very important of choices in the most vague and unreliable way. The message being relayed through a myriad of liars and swindlers (and worse in some cases (see recent abuse cases)).

Surely the all powerful could at least give us the information required for us to make this most important of decisions in an unambiguous and verifiable way? But no... We must believe the word of people. Come on!

The fact that an all powerful, ever present, alpha and omega God should require little us to tell him just how great he is and show just how afraid we are of him (otherwise he will torture and burn and kill all those who do not) seems like a ruse to make people compliant to me.

The concept of servitude actually benefits man. In this case it benefits Gods earthly representatives who are paid good money by followers and told to keep coming back under threat of eternal torture.

If you think that in all the eternal universe we are here to massage the ego of a character indicated in some ancient texts, then I do not know what to say.

Why do the 'scriptures' the the west mostly follow differ from the far eastern philosophies? Did God mean it that way? Did he let us find the 'truth' and let them over there find mere stories? I mean, if that is the case it is down right cruel considering what is at stake.

When the choice provided AND the information on which you base your decision is controlled and delivered to you, there is NO choice involved.


[edit on 13-6-2010 by Pentothal]

"God didn't make the world this way. We did." - Rorschach

reply to post by kiwifoot


Romans 8: 18

I totally get what you feel but if you have a wee trust in Him you'd know the pain His Son went through. The pain and suffering of being brutally murdered by us so we may live an eternity with those we lost in such ways as these babies.

It truly is and must be so difficult to even try and forgive everything and God if this happens to your own. It makes me nauseous just thinking about it and wish it on no one.

"Let Your Kingdom come, let Your will be done
on earth as it is in Heaven"

God should come and take back what is His...all of us, and put evil away.

Matthew 5: 45

[edit on 6/13/2010 by qonone]

God is no respecter of person. It rains on the just as well as the unjust. I mean seriously?

I see God bashing threads all the time. People who do not believe in a Creator trying to squish believers hopes. But when something bad happens they want to blame God, or try to use it to speak evil of God and continue to deny Him.

My question is this. Why would you use such an awful event to start a God bashing thread? I mean if you do not believe in God how are you trying to even hold the Lord accountable?

The truth is you will never understand the mind of God.

reply to post by kiwifoot


Where did you get the idea that God would help anyways? He never promised to help anyone in a non-spiritual way.

I heard that Satan was actually in charge of the Earth right now. If you want to complain about letting things happen, complain to Satan. I believe the Bible backs that up when Jesus was tempted with the kingdoms of the Earth. Satan could not have tempted Jesus with the Kingdoms of the Earth if they were not under his control.

Why is Satan in control of the Earth? Well Satan had a falling out with God. To prove or disprove the argument, we are the experiment. Satan has control of the Earth. If things don't go well here and everything falls to pieces, Satan lost. Then God can take over and establish a new Kingdom here. That my two cents about the current situation.

I believe the argument was over which way was the best way to follow. Satan's way or God's way. If God were to create too much interference in the experiment, I believe it could make the results inconclusive.

[edit on 13-6-2010 by orionthehunter]

This "God" you speak of, would this be the biblical God of lore or would you actually mean the Creator or Source? The biblical chappy is of no particular interest to me so I can't comment. That's all just a man-made story. But the other, the Source or Creator of all, that I certainly can address.

Why would you imagine, in the first place, that things aren't meant to happen to us in our lives? Aren't we supposed to feel existence in every way? Isn't that the richness of human existence? Understand that this (life) is not as it seems to be. Our existence is continuous. It may appear to begin and end, but it is in fact a long string of occurrences and opportunities for growth. If you regard it as one incident that ends that growth (i.e., death), you have simply bought into a rather silly and elaborate illusion that religion has for some odd reason chosen to inflict on humanity for the past some odd centuries. This too shall pass.

Running in front of a train or being zapped by lightening are as much lessons for the soul as anything else, but you always come back and do it again. Somewhere in your soul resides the wealth of all lessons. Sometimes, when lessons aren't properly learned or digested, they can contribute to or cause disease, and this is generally the source of congenital defects and diseases, though some can be "one-offs", as a karmic thing.

Our lives are chosen. We know what we're getting and why. Look on your life forms with love and compassion. Look at yourself in the same way. We are all the same consciousness. We are all God.

God works in mysterious ways.

Things happen related to karmic response (this life, or previous) - until you've mastered the lessons from your previous mistakes, you can not evolve.

I didn't bother reading all this thread, but maybe the baby slipped away from its mother - to show the mother she needs to take better care of her children better - or - maybe the event will change the brain chemistry of the child later in life to fulfill some particular purpose.

Only God knows. The only thing you can do is to spread love and enlightenment everywhere you go.

I don't mean to be rude, however, you are being rather immature by rejecting the free will side of the argument.

You are basically saying because I am highly emotionally invested in this topic, I refuse to take the simple logic answer. You essentially want someone to say something to you that will make you feel all snuggly and warm inside about babies dying. Logic is not emotion, no amount of reasoning can make you feel good about their deaths. However, it CAN justify them. We are self-contained in our own little world for the most part, God is just a spectator. Plus, if we're gonna chalk it all up to the all-powerful thing, how do you not know that these babies were born soulless to serve as simple instruments? You don't know that, but it pulls in a whole 'nother question about what's going on around us.

The fact of the matter, is this: If you choose to even CONSIDER a belief in an infinte being, how can your finite soul and mind even comprehend the smallest fraction of that power? You can't, so respectfully, stop asking. You look for answers among those who know nothing.

Lastly, I'm not sure if this has been brought up, but I'm sure it will be. For those who say that free will and an all-knowing God cancel each other out: there is a school of theology/philosophy that espouses the idea that God, being all-knowing and all-knowing being infinite, that God knows every single course of action that we could ever possibly dream of taking, what every choice in our life with ultimately lead to. Therefore he may not know exactly the choice which is our decision, but he is never surprised.

Patton once said something along the lines of, tell someone to do something and let them surprise you with their ingenuity. I imagine God follows the same example of leadership. He knows the general idea of what we'll do in life, he's just waiting to see how we will end up in the arms of destiny.

Originally posted by Arkady
Sigh......I'm not religious but 'why doesn't god intervene' has been done to death and is really quite a naive, poorly thought out 'trump card' that idiots try to throw down on religious people.
If you are actually interested and not just trying to provoke a flame war there are thousands of books on the philosophy behind this question and a great many adequately satisfying answers. Even googling 'why doesn't god intervene' will lead you to a wealth of literature on the subject.

Personally I can't help but notice that the two examples you gave were of babies being killed by man made devices. Arguing from a religious perspective my first question to you would be 'did we have lamp posts or steam pipes before the fall? did god make those objects or did we? HUMANS choose to live in such a way that we are surrounded by dangerous objects, objects that are as flawed as those who designed them and sometimes fail catastrophically. To blaim 'god' for the disastrous failure of our architecture and technology and his 'failure' to intervene is emotionally immature.

I would totally agree with this statement ~!! the other thing to think about would only be .. so .. they saw the lamp post begin to fall and didn't get out of the way ?? or ..?? a lamp post..anchored down my my guessimation .. 2" diameter concreate bolts x4-6, if, some how, they've come loose.. and the city didn't make put them on the PM route.. .. how's is that God's fault .. ???

Why doesn't God intervene?
How could God allow suffering like this to occur?

Perhaps in this dimension, particularly on this planet, the `God` most people worship is not the God of `just life` and `just honky dory` but of death and aging - both of which are labeled as `natural` - and of variety and randomness, such as freak accidents.

[edit on 2010-6-14 by pikypiky]

reply to post by kiwifoot


This is one of the hardest questions for a Christian to answer.

I have resolved the reason, in my own mind, for why the innocent suffer. However, they are only opinions and my opinions on this matter are so unorthodox that I wouldn't reveal them in public. I know my opinions could be wrong so I wait for the day when I will see clearly.

I think there are many reasons that innocent suffer.

Read the book of Job in the Old Testament. Job was a righteous man in Gods eyes. Satan challenged God saying that Job only served God because God blessed him with abundance. Satan said Job would curse God if allowed to destroy his life - but he didn't. Wikipedia

I'm not saying all suffering comes from this sort of scenario. I think it's important to pray for protection of our family and friends. I believe it releases Angels to protect those we pray for.

This is such a deep subject.

People think suffering and death is the worst possible thing that could happen. It is terrible but it is only for a moment in the scheme of eternity.

I don't know all the answers but I keep trusting Him. Maybe that's the test.

Peace

God doesn't exist, there is not God who cares about you personally. Sometimes really crappy stuff happens to innocent people, and that's just a case of bad circumstances so to speak.

We are humans and given 'free will' to choose our own paths with the gift of life. With such freedoms comes individual responsibility - to take care of ourselves as well as others within the guidelines that divine teachers had taught mankind throughout history.

Only robots have no free will, and it is not robots that our Creator, no matter what religion one hails from, wants, for we have a destiny to fulfill, and that is to seed the created empty planets in our Universe. Atheists or freethinkers will know Him in His time, and not in my or any mortal's time.

For example, we had been taught not to drink and drive, yet some still do and would rebel against rules.

Sometimes we get away with, and others will swear merciful divine intervention that prevented accidents happening. Some become bold and believe themselves invincible, continue to irresponsibly drink and drive, resulting in accidents, at times not only fatal to oneself, but to others around him as well.

Such is free will, to be responsible and not mollycoodled, or we will never be able to fulfill our destiny.

Today we have the gulf oil spill disaster. I am sure many had prayed. But there is a lesson of awareness we mankind have to wake up to. Greed had been the cause, and we must all be aware of the harm it had done, or should divine intervention of help come, everyone will only take it for granted and go back to biz as usual.

It will have to run its course, and when we learn from it, help stop the flow and clean up the mess will we be able to move forward. The oil spill is not an extinction level event, despite the fears of many, but only a lesson to be learnt of greed by a few men, just as the financial crisis had been a lesson for us to be aware of as well.

When we find the solution to it, it will lead to our eventual evolution and destiny. If we don't, then we have no right to our destiny which will only pollute other celestial objects as well as cause immense sufferings to future generations of innocent mankind.

Peace, goodwill and blessings to all humanity. It is not the end yet.

Why did God not intervene ?

If he intervened in every tragic death of a child, would this not contradict everything we know about God? I totally agree that this was tragic and heart wrenching ..There is nothing worse than to see a child die horribly. We look at children as pure innocence because they can't defend themselves so they rely on us to protect them and it does hurt to see the innocent suffer.. The bible says Gods ways are not our ways and his thoughts are not our thoughts. We can't even start to comprehend the thoughts and mind of God.

We do not chose death, but death chooses us at our appointed time.

I have taken my mother into my home to care for her. She has lung cancer and she is SUFFERING horribly....And I have to watch this on a daily basis.
I could ask God "why are you not intervening ? Honestly wouldn't that be selfish?, because I know death is a part of our life. Whether we like it or not.

I would love for God to heal my mom of this horrible cancer but if he did I still have to come to the fact that she still has to die eventually . Its just a matter of fact. It would be nice if we all could die in our sleep, the easy way out.
Maybe God did intervene.................
Only God knows what path in life that child might have took. He/She might of become a serial killer or a drug addict or was an abusive parent to their kids..........We just don't know.

But people need to quit blaming God for everything .

I think the best way to explain why it appears that God intervenes in some situations and not in other situations is that God does not intervene at all. I struggled for a long time to try and understand the only God I had been taught about (Christian God). I finally came to the conclusion that this God does not exist. If we do have an all powerful eternal creator then I believe this God does not intervene at all.


So all the horrible things that happen in this world along with all the miracles can be explained by "Ship happens" good or bad.

[edit on 14-6-2010 by taccj9903]

[edit on 14-6-2010 by taccj9903]

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
We are humans and given 'free will' to choose our own paths with the gift of life. With such freedoms comes individual responsibility - to take care of ourselves as well as others within the guidelines that divine teachers had taught mankind throughout history.

Only robots have no free will, and it is not robots that our Creator, no matter what religion one hails from, wants, for we have a destiny to fulfill, and that is to seed the created empty planets in our Universe. Atheists or freethinkers will know Him in His time, and not in my or any mortal's time.

For example, we had been taught not to drink and drive, yet some still do and would rebel against rules.

Sometimes we get away with, and others will swear merciful divine intervention that prevented accidents happening. Some become bold and believe themselves invincible, continue to irresponsibly drink and drive, resulting in accidents, at times not only fatal to oneself, but to others around him as well.

Such is free will, to be responsible and not mollycoodled, or we will never be able to fulfill our destiny.

Today we have the gulf oil spill disaster. I am sure many had prayed. But there is a lesson of awareness we mankind have to wake up to. Greed had been the cause, and we must all be aware of the harm it had done, or should divine intervention of help come, everyone will only take it for granted and go back to biz as usual.

It will have to run its course, and when we learn from it, help stop the flow and clean up the mess will we be able to move forward. The oil spill is not an extinction level event, despite the fears of many, but only a lesson to be learnt of greed by a few men, just as the financial crisis had been a lesson for us to be aware of as well.

When we find the solution to it, it will lead to our eventual evolution and destiny. If we don't, then we have no right to our destiny which will only pollute other celestial objects as well as cause immense sufferings to future generations of innocent mankind.

Peace, goodwill and blessings to all humanity. It is not the end yet.

According to your theology we only really have the illusion of free will. I have free will to believe in this vindictive apparently omnipotent screwhead but I don't see sufficient evidence to justify doing so. Worship takes effort, time, money, all things I don't wish to squander in the only life I know I'm going to have. The punishment for so much as not loving God back(nevermind disregarding his existence entirely) is eternal damnation, for what? Excercising my qoute unquote free will? Ridiculous. What a crappy parent. Humanity is capable of great things, out existence has been threatened before, we've survived due to determination and ingenuity, don't throw away humanity's accomplishments, not to mention your own, on a magical bearded man who lives in the sky.

reply to post by kiwifoot


Life is a test, GOD doesn't need to intervene, because GOD already knows what is gonna happen.

Once the test is finished all your deeds will be taken in to account.

reply to post by Tetrarch42


Regardless if it is 'my' or 'others' theology, what is more important is your own theology - what you believe in, for no one can live your life. It is your gift coupled with free will.

Religion is a personal issue solely based upon a man between his Creator. Such union cannot be forced or compelled upon, nor broken by another mortal. It has to come from one's own free will.

Religion does not cost a thing. Our Creator needs not a cent from you, but only compassion to spare 10% of it for those who are left behind in opportunities of life. You would still have 90% to luxuriate it and even then, it is still your free will to do so or not.

What you see as costs, if they are forced upon, then it is wrong and it is not our Creator that you are enriching, but mortal men. If they are paid upon your own free will, then it is your freedom of choice with no one to blame, nor do you have the right to deny another man his freedom of choice or give him your ridicule.

Punishments? This is no longer the Catholic age of inquisitions, or muslim apostasy even though still practiced by some power hungry mortal that seek to cling on to an institution that had been destroyed by our Creator to give freedom back to them.

So long as you adhere to common codes of conduct of contributing to the peaceful evolution and progress of society, with compassion and love, you are no lesser being than anyone, unless you foul up every rule and harm mankind instead. Then, not only would our Creator come after you, mankind will want your head as well.

I can feel your rant, but as you rightly said 'you do not see', therefore, knowing our Creator is still yet to come for you, at His mercy and His time, which I have no power nor seek for to compel you to. It is your life, and if you don't believe, I simply cannot understand why you are even here on this thread? To force your will upon others?