Why doesn't God intervene? A question to the religious among you..

I find it strange that people would think that God has each and every person on this planet under observation to begin with. Is it surprising that he wouldn't be able to concern himself with the minute details of everyone's life? And where would it stop if he did? I lost my wallet - why didn't God intervene. I got a bad haircut - why didn't got intervene. I just don't think he's that much of a micromanager.

I liked the earlier comparison to a farmer with a hundred acres of fields. How could he worry about each individual plant? The answer is that he can't.

I'm not particularly a christian, though I try to live by christian values. I believe in a God, whether it be a single person, a group/race of beings, or an abstract universal truth, I can't know for sure. I am a believer in reincarnation, which is a process of growth and learning for our souls through repeated lifetimes in a physical form. As such, the events we experience are meant to teach us something. The deaths of these babies may have been an invaluable teaching point for the children, or they could have been allowed for someone else's soul growth, be it the parents, nurses, workers who installed/designed the lampost/pipe, or any number of others, including yourself as a reader of the article touched by its contents. If you believe in NDE's, you know that those NDErs are always told that it is not their time and are sent back. For these babies, it was their time and their spiritual mission this time around was complete.

It's a hard one to answer, but, then again not, maybe it's just hard to understand.
We don't know the reasons why tragedies like this happens - that's a given.
But we also didn't plan the universe and create everything in it so who are we to tell the Creator he's got it all wrong? That he should do it 'our way'.
Hell, we live on a world where we don't even feed all the children - something we can control - something that isn't an 'accident' - so where does man get off complaining to 'God'?

As for me I've no doubt the Creator surely knows what He's doing.

You were 'touched' deeply by the deaths of those children.
It got you thinking.
Maybe it pulled you from apathy.
Maybe it will even save your soul - maybe it will not.

But did you even wonder how many other people were effected by the death of those children?
How many fathers and mothers were kinder to their own babies after hearing of the tragic deaths of someone else's child?
How many people heard the story and decided to go into paramedics, child therapy, social services or the like.
How many little children were saved, in one way or another, due to the loss of those two infants?
How many lives the loss of two lives changed?

We don't know.

What we do know... No wait, what I know (without a doubt) is the God that Created the universe knows when even a little sparrow falls. How much greater is the Creators own heartbreak when one of his little innocent children are killed so horrifically?
Do I believe he suffers to?
Yes.

I've a firm belief (and one that gives me great peace) that my God, someone and something I can hardly even fathom, is loving and just.
Does that mean I don't cry when I hear of something so sad as this? No, I cry.
But do I question God?
Well, I don't question how he 'let it happen', I question how, with a love as profound as the Creators, how he uses the situation to better the world and everyone in it, some way, some how.

peace

[edit on 13-6-2010 by silo13]

reply to post by kiwifoot


First and foremost S&F!!

I am struggling deeply with this, I cannot beleive that there is a God when I see these examples.

War, famine, depression, sadness, rage, angst, worry, doubt, hate, murder, suicide, genocide, racism...ETC!!!!

"God, if you're hearing this, what say you?, why do you let it happen? You're supposed to be a loving, just, caring God from all that I have been fed by the corrupt bearers of your word, yet "free will" prevails and you sit idle. So much so that it counters your intention on what you created. DO SOMETHING!! We're obviously not capable, we're ruining it, we need your intervention. Just end it already, we're a lost cause!!! Start over!!"

If I had a nickel for every time I looked up and pleaded the aforementioned. Kiwi, If you feel the same as I, you feel like God smites you/us.. Yes? I'm appalled at a humans capability for dark. In the same light, I am aghast at a humans ability for good. Why do we need the balance? Okay, I'm done ranting......for now.



[edit on 6/13/2010 by UberL33t]

reply to post by Hellas


First of all, evil is a goad for good, the trial from evil directly develop consciousness and other necessary traits for evolving souls.

God is well aware of the interplay between good and evil and the knowledge of good and evil is the very thing the dark forces want to hold from you.

Hence they ban you from the garden, not God, or just destroy your garden, the earth, to keep you angry, fearful, hateful toward God, confused, etc.

Then they rewrite the Bibles of the world so they no longer agree on anything.

God has merely set up a video game here to give souls experiences. This video game is a complete illusion and the only thing that counts is your reactions to the game.

This game will self destruct on que from the sun very soon now, and the good people of the world will all have a big laugh.

Don't worry about it. Justice will certainly be done and things corrected. Justice is absolutely rooted in the essential Nature of God. There is no escape from this karma. Stay cheerful as all types of pollution are easily repaired with quark beams and other High tech devices which are now on the way.

There is no evil ultimately. It all turns to good eventually. Any suffering will ultimately make you better, and be worth it, and be fully compensated.

I think God does care, but sets things in motion and steps away, waiting for us to do our job. Why was the water thrown on the first baby, or why was the child doing there that no one could step up and move him would be the better questions. We have to deal with the consequences of life because we have to learn. There needs to be oppositions in all things so we can know the good from the bad, the happiness from the grief, health from sickness.....
I don't believe it's Satan, though. He can only influence you if you let him.
As for the earth given to us all, I think God made it, he made it well, and he put on it everything we need. We are supposed to take care of it. It's called stewardship. When we give it back, complete with all the things we've done to it.........I think God will be very pissed off. We will be held accountable, as we should be.

God does intervene and he has intervened... if he hadn't none of us would be here now

As far as the relationship between God and humanity is concerned, I think the lyrics from the song, "Someone always hates someone," sums it up.

Last night I shook hands with the devil
In a dream that I can never lose
He laughed when he saw me cryin'
At the pictures on the evening news
He said it's not really a dilemma
Your just a little out of touch
Don't think of the situation
Cos it'll make you think too much

Someone always hates someone
Someone always hates someone
Someone always sells a gun
Cos someone always hates someone

A child will be born tomorrow
As open as an empty cup
And we'll fill it with hope and sorrow
The very things that messed us up
We'll ask him to join the congregation
A hindu moslem christian or jew
Pretty soon he'll recognise his brothers
But soon he'll know the enemy too

Someone always hates someone
Someone always hates someone
Someone always buys a gun
Cos someone always hates someone

I died and I went to heaven in a dream
I never had before
A good friend who had gone before me
Had kindly left my name at the door
I looked on the face of the almighty
Couldn't help myself I started to shout
How come you made a mess of things
How come you didn't work it out

He said
Someone always hates someone
Someone always hates someone
There's so much love for everyone
But someone always hates someone

Ok
First off... God never created religion.... man did!
Secondly...It is all you religious fanatics holding humankind back...i dont care if you worship Jesus Christ or Krishna...There is One God....One God for the Whole human race!!
Religions need to die for the human race to become one again and flourish( Not black, White, Arab, Indian ,Catholic, Christian, Buddah, Muslim, Etc.)...as it was intended to be.

I dont care if the " Bible says" this or the "Bible says" that.
Its a bunch of BS.
Jonah and the whale..3 days!! Come on!! Enough said.
Start taking the blinders off folks...easier to connect the dots that way.

God does not intervene because the god that we are told to believe in does not exit.
God, sorry the Gods I believe were an Alien race that helped move humans along in the world. They have since left many many years ago and we are left to our own devices.
Think about it god is omniscinet according to many religions so think about it, God knows that even with free will god has allowed people to be born knowing they will come murders, molester, criminals and generally bad people.

The Creation of Eve from Adam was nothing more than genetic engineering.

Anyhow, that's my belief.

reply to post by colec156


Bingo!!
Hit the nail on the head!

Blinders Folks......Just try peeling them off just abit.

reply to post by KILLFOXX


Nobody knows the true nature of God, as everyone is playing the guessing game. What makes you any different? It's not religion holding humanity back. It's the lack of tolerance for other people's belief systems and whether they are religious or not is irrelevant. I'm no fan of organised religion, but I still respect the rights of an individual to belief whatever they want, as long as it's not physically harming anyone.

[edit on 13-6-2010 by kindred]

Some people live to be 120 years old .
Others get ONE day .
Everybody else dies in between those numbers.

If God personally intervened , He'd spend each moment
intervening in millions of lives.
And would this work?
No.

People ignore God's best advice ...on a daily basis
Let's say God , calls , in a vision to the factory worker , who made the
lampost , "do not make that lamp-post". Worker is sacked , someone else makes it.
Let's say God arrives in human form , and says to the person fitting the lamp-post , "no,a foot to the right please !" .
Mocked and ignored again.
Let's say God visits the parents of said baby , and says "do not let your baby sleep in his/her room tonight" ......
IGNORED
Let's say God tells you personally NOT to get on that aeroplane today?
IGNORED
Let's say God regularly tells people/presidents about upcoming events ,
... and ... you guessed it , IGNORED and DEFIED , right up to , and BEYOND the event .(9/11, economic collapse, etc. etc ....>)
We want lamp-posts , We want planes that fail , We want war, famine
and suffering.
Crazy? Stupid?
Yes. But God still Loves us, and takes away ALL pain and tears , in Heaven
Revelation 2:5
Look how far you have fallen! Turn back to me and do the works you did at first. If you don't repent, I will come and remove your lampstand from its place among the churches

Even the Mighty Moses , and Jesus were put on ignore ....

reply to post by kindred


Ohhh Sorry ...your right!
Religions have never been responsible for physically harming anyone else.

LOL...Come on...Get Real!

reply to post by colec156


That might be a possibility in regards to our physicality, but what of our spiritual nature. If we have a soul, where does it comes from and who created it?

reply to post by kiwifoot


Why doesn't God intervene? A question to the religious among you..

Enough said.

Your question is a very important one. The most basic and worst deception in life is the idea that this world is a lost paradise and our true home. Nothing could be further from the truth. The spirit is very subtle and matter very coarse. The body needs the spirit for "life". "Life" is the spirit. The spirit doesn't need the body to be alive. But cover of the body benefits from the association because it facilitates the spirit operating fully at this plane. This plane is far closer to hell then it is to the spirits true home. Because the spirit is temporarily here should not be confused with this world being it's true home.

The Supreme Being, out of pure love and mercy of the highest order, sent the spirits here that could not remain conscious in the bliss of the purely spiritual regions. The creation here is delegated to Kal or the Devil who is the embodiment of imperfection. "Gods" subordinate to the Devil maintain the creation. This includes superior humanoid forms such as angels that look out for individual spirits. Protection is often provided but the purpose of the creations here is to exhaust imperfection and in that process pay debts occurred for violations committed or good deeds performed. Why a spirit has a short life in a particular body and experiences unpleasantness is difficult for anyone but it is part of the payment of debt and fate of the individual. Every spirit experiences much more pleasure than pain in life unless that are fixated on pain by this or a previous incarnation. Grace and Mercy may still underlay most adversities. The spirit may suffer less that one might thing.

These circumstances should help to convince us that this world can never be our true home. How can a world where killing is perpetual at least within the animal kingdom. Our destiny it to be in pure spirit, fully conscious and without any adversities, wants or needs unfulfilled. But such true fulfillment can not be done in this world.

en.wikipedia.org...

The majority of Americans (76%) identify themselves as Christians, mostly with Protestant denominations.[3] Non-Christian religions (including Judaism, Buddhism, Islam, and Hinduism), collectively make up about 4% to 5% of the adult population.[4][5][3] Another 15% of the adult population identifies as having no religious belief or no religious affiliation.[3] According to the American Religious Identification Survey, religious belief varies considerably across the country: 59% of Americans living in Western states (the "Unchurched Belt") report a belief in God, yet in the South (the "Bible Belt") the figure is as high as 86%.[3][6]

And you dont think the political heads of the United States Government dont play these numbers??
Let me guess...You think George Bush was a Christian Right??
Hahaha...too funny.

reply to post by KILLFOXX


I never said it hasn't, but not everyone who is religious goes around around harming everyone else. People who blame religion for all the evil deeds in the world seriously need to wake up and smell the coffee. Religion is just a tool that can be used for good or evil, just like anything else.

"Have people been killed in the name of atheism at any time in history?"

Reign of Terror (1793-4) in France.
Another anti-clerical uprising was made possible by the installment of the Revolutionary Calendar on 24 October. Against Robespierre's concepts of Deism and Virtue, Hébert's (and Chaumette's) atheist movement initiated a religious campaign in order to dechristianize society. The program of dechristianisation waged against Catholicism, and eventually against all forms of Christianity, included the deportation of clergy and the condemnation of many of them to death, the closing of churches, the institution of revolutionary and civic cults, the large scale destruction of religious monuments, the outlawing of public and private worship and religious education, forced marriages of the clergy and forced abjurement of their priesthood.

The enactment of a law on October 21, 1793 made all suspected priests and all persons who harbored them liable to death on sight. The climax was reached with the celebration of the Goddess "Reason" in Notre Dame Cathedral on November 10. Because dissent was now regarded as counterrevolutionary, extremist enragés such as Hébert and moderate Montagnard indulgents such as Danton were guillotined in the spring of 1794. On June 7 Robespierre, who had previously condemned the Cult of Reason, advocated a new state religion and recommended that the Convention acknowledge the existence of God. On the next day, the worship of the deistic Supreme Being was inaugurated as an official aspect of the Revolution. Compared with Hébert's somewhat popular festivals, this austere new religion of Virtue was received with signs of hostility by an amazed Parisian public.

Of course, I doubt I could cite any other examples - either before, or after this time period.

Sources: en.wikipedia.org...

Evil men will use any excuse to kill. If religion didn't exist it would be something else. The example above is proof of that.

Lets not forget who brought sin into the world, and is responsible for the suffering and hate that surrounds us all.


(A quick guide)

God- "Listen Adam and Eve, I have given you two a place where you don't have to work, live forever, run around naked and get to hang out with all cool animals. Plus you get to have lots of sex to populate the earth, all without any pain or suffering.

God - "Just do me one favor, don't eat off that tree over there, that one is off limits. If you eat off it you will both will die, lose all previleges, and sin will enter the world and lots of bad stuff will happen."

God - "So, we cool?"

Adam and Eve - "KK"

God - =)

Satan - "Psst, They Eve, you know how God said not to eat off that tree, because if you do, you will die and sin will happen?"

Eve - "Yeah, that's what God said"

Satan - "He's lying lol!, hes just trippin because if you eat it then, YOU WILL BECOME GODS lol"

Eve - "Seriously?"

Satan - "Yeah lol, grab some fruit and give some to your husband too"

Eve - "Adam eat some fruit with me from the forbidden tree, the snake told me if we eat it we will become GODS ourselves, God just hating"

**Adam and Eve eat the fruit**

Satan - "LMAO1!!11, WFT PWN11, I can't believe they fell for that lol. I got to remember to use that liner later on, rofl"

**Sin enters the world, and lots of bad things happen**

Humanity - "Dude WTF, where's God in all this mess. He must not exist."

God - /facepalm


Accidents due happen, but they are just one of many consequences and characteristics of a sin-filled world.

Lets say God did intervene in the events you posted, would the parents be grateful?, sure they would. Would they now believe and live there lives as commanded by God,? maybe.

How long before another accident or hardship strikes these families again and God doesn't intervene this time? Would they now hate God for not showing up? but still be grateful for the first intervention?, or would they forget?

If all accidents where to have a happy ending via God's intervention, how long would it be before humans noticed? how long before responsibility and fear are forgotten and complete carelessness kicks in and humanity states "God will take care of it" How long after that will people start jumping of buildings and say "God will save me"?

Who is then the master and the servant?, should the will of the created he higher that of the creator?

Originally posted by kiwifoot

Originally posted by Hellas
because that would be against the "free will" he gave mankind.

Yep.

I was waiting for that mate.

Seriously, if you love someone, are a all powerful God, would allow a young baby to suffer %85 burns and scald to death?

I'm sorry, it doesn't wash.

In fact, that's almost obscene on the face of it.

Thats quite a shame because if we all had it your way we would be slaves.

Think about it a little instead of blaming God for everything that is wrong.

If there was no free will you would not even be able to ask the questions you have in this thread.

Please bear in mind, if you read the bible it clearly states that this is a temporary life, a lesson in the knowledge of good and evil. Its in the very first book (genesis).

We are all going to die, that is the one guarantee we all have, if you boil it down to death, whats the big difference really? If your promised eternal life after your lesson, whats your point?

Why would God allow anyone to die? God does not allow it, unless you choose it!

The real big question is this, why would anyone choose to die?

The person who gave you this answer (hellas) is spot on, they gave you the answer to your question as simple as possible.



[edit on 13-6-2010 by XXXN3O]